Re: Fedora Installation Needs Intelligence
if its the dell wifi its b43 or wl pkgs you need ive run into that before on dells Corey W Sheldon Freelance IT Consultant, Multi-Discipline Tutor 310.909.7672 www.facebook.com/1stclassmobileshine -BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK- Version: GnuPG v1 mQSuBFSFm3MRDADMQUFvE2zeREEV2+mARfGttXR0HmamD3kJJMdRmGrtvHpEgTjK cg8ylpkjRTBOl3pWzrEfoxREnS5Ej6BbGbEdGP8cRgpnACkzVirTDtb6JLatzPzh 4xqpuO6st8ATh7/RkLdsK8R5IzjqvkJ+Q99MGZxBr6w0AaP8KMKe32TU5CzQkSMH hL+sZQlIVa5kiEbsvrYnYVrlvw9YFsHZQ38mxFyg0A4nmt3L+CBFS4LRdaQmsu07 Qr22aeOYdD4fWKkvEtGsy2MtxIOjqljdPk+lBqBiW3qK9J3DfGLQsVBholJFBMvY S6aLj6ITDOezJ36hHNlpQmPMOQLShIkP3/dlq7Y2xhyLY/hXG83Pw6WF7kRzF7vG bSqSDlMlmdnRzulnNtAaE4fzNtBR26oKSfMIwX9NUz4U1wFCVrzrOzEvvU2ZvU3k ZlpyMdm1fCEdXJt/oOWBVa6PH31TTGaYKl8JH2gQ0Z9DixaTmPS56ch3mbRGMqyz 5PzEtzvaM5b3yzMBAN/guLOJVzGKSqHwEMjhfxwDweHiOS50FAXH8i9w8qyVC/sG 4iFlS/yjH6SBm5DEdAKwIbY5EuFexgyVoVDpCZ65VSspDwoiXaHubOfNYUAEkOFJ o/YShNMInmajsB7kTlt5mlqsJlU/xAMGH6Zv+f5GIi2k8aDryZr+rHPHqs3lyCkb 7t7041z5mfy9/rJE+U20aVvBh/uUtSMm78CvmTcwdasskEpsiZR2ScuGUgc4ahlF 61dvEnCN+5mrTtPUQPISxtLGDUMhhrrw75z7LafPF6gFmMT/RLcnbrB1xPxPwxWR m5QpfV6qUNmRoGKnGRlyYkBbLwWRsZRSEtgFHUqb8Y3ghG1rKkEh4paFyPOzbGFo dZOHR4dsTStu41UE1MAdn41VhTjS/mQjI/CQPCIRPscjI64svBjQria3SV0iDqxb +Z3ACGoHdKaUI5TiJhJkjEWUjOunUfSnhR124mf7uEIG/1sHJoYonPKTtYNy2mlB ryZs7kZ3u7V3DV4TPMji3UC8sVV2+9HR2g0xxMEXyTA1AEoQeQIK05BthxX/auoM AKrGRPvY96RfaO9rNSerJGH+7VGpr/O4UxRDytHzRRfDb9PzMjUSspS6DtSMhk1z lB2+riyDwQ9HqgFk2PLgnj0LE/k9IxXDxtjjMAGAM1iBRJCsQZzoXfphOtZzU1bd 6teOAW2lsT+rp/+BwU7YxSLnEj0eFJgZTMAgNblLLzh3Cu53FNPauxdhacklYjj3 LO3d0CAkcHMA0ny+zXVoQupabgFLsgvVoSLqPqWVgrd5vS8gGWwvc+b4Q9YLWYpK qwI9tD6Z5poSbQjJPKJLuJfhiQqMgvjeLZGFnTHe9O5s1+dKInW1DhUH6yq61Exj 0grDevF7vyBBEfxkGVeKPyOd7gy7dXMRUwuaQZZ/yd2vbPv8Vbe4ux5TaltFekYc /F6bPWB2LwGAbxKchl5O9133C4VM6yO9bb0DiMMZFsJIUlIqnkDREgjMA30n2HZ4 Xzg+aho33VMRhzaE+YTZVfmNSZk7VlM4mprFKeBERycOyUNfU0B6hOwtrwrMp6gZ 47Q0Q29yZXkgU2hlbGRvbiAoRmVkb3JhIEtleSkgPHNoZWxkb24uY29yZXlAZ21h aWwuY29tPoiABBMRCAAoBQJUhZtzAhsjBQkB4TOABgsJCAcDAgYVCAIJCgsEFgID AQIeAQIXgAAKCRDpWMXWcYv1l0L9APwJ2famE03OlzpOMddQIxsGEnb6cgb4X8ZE tXNnkfmPZwD9Gt8tXcaLOqiwKjQqyiLRP3SoIqwUAJHe7GciZDZ5A/S5BA0EVIWb cxAQAK6uQCb9BZLnWUTXZAAKDK0qT2BVOzUBefB3YD5Eixtmdf7mqjxSfs2Mci5D rGdNZowgA9HnEeIzqg78giit21UlXhqCOt22hj0eO+Q1F401Dr6RFkkN8yQdVI1D 1UePDZQ/zz/fD0miD9KPQxGr6mwGWbn8it5NFHt1EnZMIYkXfS/TJxaMsrGY6Q2F RLjhQ3f69i0XjqPg1/IFx5C34ds0hw3K47yDTrgqR5pp309FjselYfLkC4z8R6ti TRbaXMwOhGuk56rEYB7Y6uzdxuQvS1zM/qqqmff3VqjwyCpVgTuqUlpiD8k/e2nq HB/ZvrOUWgSqT6NKWBn915DlVB5U95jxLFafopI4N12rsEGW7wIgPolXZ2yU8C4S E5kE84T8ahdHGAP9lHbqPhnA7aO1zuAl6hJB+Dcpt1nbPdqfwWR0FffkUU9kL6Qh CiV2ZiAx6Eqm8i5pM21aTlYo0RUosK4r0xFTDZ7SR7d7EGjmfO5k+YjoUSlqOvIb 2jNg6+ZD9EFzSEq5QHMViFnMsp1j+nEYiL44GIH4NPnQWCc3/p7vdxje3HTC4eBt E4Dp4CkTjX4MpiNrUMw57kjahv/nfITsDUcu4WcMc9e0F8GtfIgy/p3XVsXTqdcm CersMUgFZIbptI/bGwfj713QElkNiah1NGZc52YAmFWO9f4/AAMFD/4mjUWEaW/D plbV2tyo7w4j9cHT89+uz5R/Q/OOUjY6PhoFfAzfRAiBlOVjGba/IiYig0HJoBW8 r1HDrfO8xHCHCA9NXiBrhCLFnGM+T6m5+5YpMz5jnhv+xvudm0Dg5VxLtcBjo0/j OUxIHBEcvm0/H3MgABHJc/vTR5n/hNJ6kGRgfgg37qIruE4GOu7BeNABBW+8IIyP 1mXvQl/zIfokAPiDqW9Rmmuj5znOc+UvOX8CcJU/8YQYNIHtCzISkFGtkcz1spET BL6Bu5WrGbdStHFzoUKpaHQumyaHBBDn0VpJCjiRwf7Gu+LlZ/Wlah4KVo4nhk3k NsonNqOZjK16UZnrMrdK4VIDLxzCtlrmlmbGLuH8YUmmlxuw0Nt9EiYtpFTiNUQq Iplu8Me9O9hZ8ZmzlgJ+0tSzlXELOUUOwIgiQs67c9bEn18pHIln4YyrfCvPlhyw Ke+xXUeGGEXmIrKTjCQrFA9eWs3nPTfTG7xQmGkf93kUZHOJMohDJlpIHQza1uyt lu2s+s8HXiAHOBh6ZbMloL+Rg4M+w5+eKU2abQCW8QC1v9u3OgKWcZ1jZbYyTCyI 8Y7NQyiE/akAXQiUb1MHIezN7QpzHEpGxDyVr3tEYF26deJ8sVBxzd+m2wSWyFlT dPyuTxJJFIRCYtK5wpbPhrDlQfwL5riDzIhnBBgRCAAPBQJUhZtzAhsMBQkB4TOA AAoJEOlYxdZxi/WXW8wA/jWWfofUPZYg3QOquXIR/QDTm/fsQwTx+2vO4nEXRKlq AP0YOSlkGoCbaeFHgX+RU5lVfHzRyONK5T7RcDTcvJD83A== =v6Cq -END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK- On Sun, Dec 14, 2014 at 2:23 AM, Samuel Sieb sam...@sieb.net wrote: On 12/12/2014 03:57 AM, Marcin Juszkiewicz wrote: There are still wireless cards which do not work with Linux out of box? (assuming that firmware is provided) The firmware is the problem. There are some Broadcom chipsets that need firmware to work, but that firmware is not allowed to be distributed. They might only be found in older laptops now, I've only run into them once or twice. It would be nice if the installer could at least warn about it. The wireless will work, but there are some manual steps required to install the firmware. -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: Fedora Installation Needs Intelligence
On Fri, Dec 12, 2014 at 4:57 AM, Marcin Juszkiewicz mjuszkiew...@redhat.com wrote: There are still wireless cards which do not work with Linux out of box? (assuming that firmware is provided) I haven't checked anything newer than 18 months, but Apple hardware for a long time needs proprietary b43 firmware installed by the user and it's completely non-obvious that this needs to be done and how. The documentation in general is incredibly verbose. So it's a here baby, learn to swim toss kindof experience. And then the reward is no 802.11n support. Ultimately the user would have to go down the road of entirely proprietary drivers for such wireless cards. They still seem to be rather prolific. -- Chris Murphy -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: Fedora Installation Needs Intelligence
On Mon, Dec 15, 2014 at 12:48:59 -0700, Chris Murphy li...@colorremedies.com wrote: Ultimately the user would have to go down the road of entirely proprietary drivers for such wireless cards. They still seem to be rather prolific. I have one in a laptop I inherited. I just needed to put the firmware in /usr/lib/firmware/b43, I didn't actually have to use a proprietary driver (kernel module). Either way it is still annoying. -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: Fedora Installation Needs Intelligence
On 12-12-14 08:25:56 Jan Kratochvil wrote: On Fri, 12 Dec 2014 08:17:45 +0100, Satyajit Sahoo wrote: Wireless is a requirement for laptops. For example, Macbook Air doesn't have an ethernet port. s/requirement for laptops/requirement for Macbook Air/ Well, my Dell XPS-13 didn't come with an Ethernet port either. (Yes, I bought a dongle, but just sayin'.) -- Garry T. Williams -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: Fedora Installation Needs Intelligence
On 12/12/2014 03:57 AM, Marcin Juszkiewicz wrote: There are still wireless cards which do not work with Linux out of box? (assuming that firmware is provided) The firmware is the problem. There are some Broadcom chipsets that need firmware to work, but that firmware is not allowed to be distributed. They might only be found in older laptops now, I've only run into them once or twice. It would be nice if the installer could at least warn about it. The wireless will work, but there are some manual steps required to install the firmware. -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: Fedora Installation Needs Intelligence
On 12/12/2014 08:32 AM, Satyajit Sahoo wrote: Wireless might not be a strict requirement, but still essential. I have some machines which does not have internet at all. So for some user it is not essential at all. It is hard to please everybody :) -- Miroslav Suchy, RHCE, RHCDS Red Hat, Senior Software Engineer, #brno, #devexp, #fedora-buildsys -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: Fedora Installation Needs Intelligence
On Thu, Dec 11, 2014 at 05:37:52PM -0700, john.tiger wrote: 7) Give option to save successful install in a simple install config file for multiple similar machines FWIW, tbis is actually done every time, automatically -- you'll find a kickstart file in ~root on the installed system. 8) team working on install needs to put together wireframe / sketches of screens - suggested UI needs to be posted for feedback before programming effort - current installer iterations seem more trial and error rather than getting good user feedback right from the start Actually there was a huge amount of design work, all public. Additionally, there have been significant improvments based on real world experience and user feedback over the last few releases. A lot of the elements that seem odd to you got different feedback overall, or address UX problems that aren't immediately obvious but came out through that process. -- Matthew Miller mat...@fedoraproject.org Fedora Project Leader -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: Fedora Installation Needs Intelligence
W dniu 12.12.2014 o 08:32, Satyajit Sahoo pisze: Okay, forget Macbook Air. I don't have ethernet at my office, and it's the only place where I have internet. What can I do then? You can boot one machine to any other OS, grab ISO from Fedora website and put it on DVD or USB stick (there are instructions for DVD-USB). Network is not required during installation. I did several F21/aarch64 installs during testing phase when network was used only to have VNC instead of text interface. Wireless might not be a strict requirement, but still essential. There are still wireless cards which do not work with Linux out of box? (assuming that firmware is provided) -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Fedora Installation Needs Intelligence
As an AI guy, it's been frustrating that installing Fedora on my Macbook has been 3 days and counting, a living hell, and still not right (still can't get wireless to work not having eth0 available) - I've come to realize the installer is stupid from an intelligence standpoint. Installing Fedora requires many decisions and tweeking from the user who must rely on insufficient documentation and searching user posts that are often outdated, do not work, and lacking key details. Installation is often the first impression or key impression of Fedora. As consultant Brian Tracy states don't meet customer expectations, don't exceed customer expectations, but WOW the customer. It is what Apple has mostly done. Fedora / Linux can be the best, should be the best - time for a first in class installation process. Here's what I've found: 1) Linux actually does an extensive pre-flight check but this information is not conveyed to the user in any simple, exception reporting, pretty UI dashboard kind of way. a) the first screen of F21 workstation live is simple and nice looking - ie does user want to run Live or install Fedora - the pre-flight check needs to be something simple and attractive as this 2) This first screen needs to identify the existence of key elements for successful installation and operation. RAM, hard disk space, wireless / eth0, .. If key requirement is missing / insufficient then pop suggestion - if it's a non shipping proprietary issue, then provide popup dialog info and links to get problem solved - none of the current go look it up - needs the right info right there - yes this adds lots of up-to-date work but is really important !! ie. for Broadcom - dialog should explain this is proprietary, must be added from outside source, do you want outside source installed ? click install, BAM!, it's taken care of. a) realize this is hard, but if done in a modular fashion, then all the different requirement combinations can be more easily managed - ie wireless check, separate popup module for each driver - many of these drivers seem to exist on apps.fedoraproject.org - needs to be better integrated 3) Some of #2) might depend on type (workstation, cloud, server) and possibly language, etc so there might be some iterative process needed for the initial 1-3 screens 4) Some info (ie setting time zone ) just does not seem critical at this point - push it to later - get past the critical element stage first 5) Partitioning has improved but still not good enough. Again simple screen of what's there, what needs to be there, and any desired overrides - bouncing the user into gparted is terrible (gparted needs it's own intelligence...). a) based on existing OS - simple question of dual-booting, or replacing b) simple 3 col screen: col 1 - list of current partitions, col 2 list of recommended - col 3 based on selected item in col 2 input boxes of each partition details c) some of above is already there (ie col 3) - just needs some UI fixing d) then immediately ask to apply - then BAM! partitioning is done and show user clearly what was done - then ask to either change partitions again, proceed with software install, or cancel out e) there seems to be real problems with current going back - like due to caching - it doesn't go back right 5) After all these critical requirements are done and installed - then proceed to other info such as passwords, user, time zone, software to be installed - make sequential simple screens with big nice UI buttons a) get rid of current async around the screen paragraph buttons that is confusing to user b) perhaps it seems efficient to do multitasking (ie fill out user while stuff is installing) but filling out a couple of simple screens sequentially is a lot more efficient in terms of less confusing, ensuring more accurate input, etc 6 Before saying install is complete - run another flight check to be sure everything is right and installed correctly - if not, alert user and show recommendations . Time to stop the install completed, reboot, and then no wireless, 7) Give option to save successful install in a simple install config file for multiple similar machines 8) team working on install needs to put together wireframe / sketches of screens - suggested UI needs to be posted for feedback before programming effort - current installer iterations seem more trial and error rather than getting good user feedback right from the start Am willing to work on this - can mock up the input screens - just point the direction of how to help -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: Fedora Installation Needs Intelligence
2014-12-12 2:37 GMT+02:00 john.tiger john.tigernas...@gmail.com: Am willing to work on this - can mock up the input screens - just point the direction of how to help Then you should get in touch with the Anaconda team: fedoraproject.org/wiki/Anaconda -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: Fedora Installation Needs Intelligence
also, seeing as much of that is in the Install Guide and/or release notes it is expected the user will check that and that extra documentation on the live takes up space fast and size constraints do exist for ISOs Corey W Sheldon Freelance IT Consultant, Multi-Discipline Tutor 310.909.7672 www.facebook.com/1stclassmobileshine -BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK- Version: GnuPG v1 mQSuBFSFm3MRDADMQUFvE2zeREEV2+mARfGttXR0HmamD3kJJMdRmGrtvHpEgTjK cg8ylpkjRTBOl3pWzrEfoxREnS5Ej6BbGbEdGP8cRgpnACkzVirTDtb6JLatzPzh 4xqpuO6st8ATh7/RkLdsK8R5IzjqvkJ+Q99MGZxBr6w0AaP8KMKe32TU5CzQkSMH hL+sZQlIVa5kiEbsvrYnYVrlvw9YFsHZQ38mxFyg0A4nmt3L+CBFS4LRdaQmsu07 Qr22aeOYdD4fWKkvEtGsy2MtxIOjqljdPk+lBqBiW3qK9J3DfGLQsVBholJFBMvY S6aLj6ITDOezJ36hHNlpQmPMOQLShIkP3/dlq7Y2xhyLY/hXG83Pw6WF7kRzF7vG bSqSDlMlmdnRzulnNtAaE4fzNtBR26oKSfMIwX9NUz4U1wFCVrzrOzEvvU2ZvU3k ZlpyMdm1fCEdXJt/oOWBVa6PH31TTGaYKl8JH2gQ0Z9DixaTmPS56ch3mbRGMqyz 5PzEtzvaM5b3yzMBAN/guLOJVzGKSqHwEMjhfxwDweHiOS50FAXH8i9w8qyVC/sG 4iFlS/yjH6SBm5DEdAKwIbY5EuFexgyVoVDpCZ65VSspDwoiXaHubOfNYUAEkOFJ o/YShNMInmajsB7kTlt5mlqsJlU/xAMGH6Zv+f5GIi2k8aDryZr+rHPHqs3lyCkb 7t7041z5mfy9/rJE+U20aVvBh/uUtSMm78CvmTcwdasskEpsiZR2ScuGUgc4ahlF 61dvEnCN+5mrTtPUQPISxtLGDUMhhrrw75z7LafPF6gFmMT/RLcnbrB1xPxPwxWR m5QpfV6qUNmRoGKnGRlyYkBbLwWRsZRSEtgFHUqb8Y3ghG1rKkEh4paFyPOzbGFo dZOHR4dsTStu41UE1MAdn41VhTjS/mQjI/CQPCIRPscjI64svBjQria3SV0iDqxb +Z3ACGoHdKaUI5TiJhJkjEWUjOunUfSnhR124mf7uEIG/1sHJoYonPKTtYNy2mlB ryZs7kZ3u7V3DV4TPMji3UC8sVV2+9HR2g0xxMEXyTA1AEoQeQIK05BthxX/auoM AKrGRPvY96RfaO9rNSerJGH+7VGpr/O4UxRDytHzRRfDb9PzMjUSspS6DtSMhk1z lB2+riyDwQ9HqgFk2PLgnj0LE/k9IxXDxtjjMAGAM1iBRJCsQZzoXfphOtZzU1bd 6teOAW2lsT+rp/+BwU7YxSLnEj0eFJgZTMAgNblLLzh3Cu53FNPauxdhacklYjj3 LO3d0CAkcHMA0ny+zXVoQupabgFLsgvVoSLqPqWVgrd5vS8gGWwvc+b4Q9YLWYpK qwI9tD6Z5poSbQjJPKJLuJfhiQqMgvjeLZGFnTHe9O5s1+dKInW1DhUH6yq61Exj 0grDevF7vyBBEfxkGVeKPyOd7gy7dXMRUwuaQZZ/yd2vbPv8Vbe4ux5TaltFekYc /F6bPWB2LwGAbxKchl5O9133C4VM6yO9bb0DiMMZFsJIUlIqnkDREgjMA30n2HZ4 Xzg+aho33VMRhzaE+YTZVfmNSZk7VlM4mprFKeBERycOyUNfU0B6hOwtrwrMp6gZ 47Q0Q29yZXkgU2hlbGRvbiAoRmVkb3JhIEtleSkgPHNoZWxkb24uY29yZXlAZ21h aWwuY29tPoiABBMRCAAoBQJUhZtzAhsjBQkB4TOABgsJCAcDAgYVCAIJCgsEFgID AQIeAQIXgAAKCRDpWMXWcYv1l0L9APwJ2famE03OlzpOMddQIxsGEnb6cgb4X8ZE tXNnkfmPZwD9Gt8tXcaLOqiwKjQqyiLRP3SoIqwUAJHe7GciZDZ5A/S5BA0EVIWb cxAQAK6uQCb9BZLnWUTXZAAKDK0qT2BVOzUBefB3YD5Eixtmdf7mqjxSfs2Mci5D rGdNZowgA9HnEeIzqg78giit21UlXhqCOt22hj0eO+Q1F401Dr6RFkkN8yQdVI1D 1UePDZQ/zz/fD0miD9KPQxGr6mwGWbn8it5NFHt1EnZMIYkXfS/TJxaMsrGY6Q2F RLjhQ3f69i0XjqPg1/IFx5C34ds0hw3K47yDTrgqR5pp309FjselYfLkC4z8R6ti TRbaXMwOhGuk56rEYB7Y6uzdxuQvS1zM/qqqmff3VqjwyCpVgTuqUlpiD8k/e2nq HB/ZvrOUWgSqT6NKWBn915DlVB5U95jxLFafopI4N12rsEGW7wIgPolXZ2yU8C4S E5kE84T8ahdHGAP9lHbqPhnA7aO1zuAl6hJB+Dcpt1nbPdqfwWR0FffkUU9kL6Qh CiV2ZiAx6Eqm8i5pM21aTlYo0RUosK4r0xFTDZ7SR7d7EGjmfO5k+YjoUSlqOvIb 2jNg6+ZD9EFzSEq5QHMViFnMsp1j+nEYiL44GIH4NPnQWCc3/p7vdxje3HTC4eBt E4Dp4CkTjX4MpiNrUMw57kjahv/nfITsDUcu4WcMc9e0F8GtfIgy/p3XVsXTqdcm CersMUgFZIbptI/bGwfj713QElkNiah1NGZc52YAmFWO9f4/AAMFD/4mjUWEaW/D plbV2tyo7w4j9cHT89+uz5R/Q/OOUjY6PhoFfAzfRAiBlOVjGba/IiYig0HJoBW8 r1HDrfO8xHCHCA9NXiBrhCLFnGM+T6m5+5YpMz5jnhv+xvudm0Dg5VxLtcBjo0/j OUxIHBEcvm0/H3MgABHJc/vTR5n/hNJ6kGRgfgg37qIruE4GOu7BeNABBW+8IIyP 1mXvQl/zIfokAPiDqW9Rmmuj5znOc+UvOX8CcJU/8YQYNIHtCzISkFGtkcz1spET BL6Bu5WrGbdStHFzoUKpaHQumyaHBBDn0VpJCjiRwf7Gu+LlZ/Wlah4KVo4nhk3k NsonNqOZjK16UZnrMrdK4VIDLxzCtlrmlmbGLuH8YUmmlxuw0Nt9EiYtpFTiNUQq Iplu8Me9O9hZ8ZmzlgJ+0tSzlXELOUUOwIgiQs67c9bEn18pHIln4YyrfCvPlhyw Ke+xXUeGGEXmIrKTjCQrFA9eWs3nPTfTG7xQmGkf93kUZHOJMohDJlpIHQza1uyt lu2s+s8HXiAHOBh6ZbMloL+Rg4M+w5+eKU2abQCW8QC1v9u3OgKWcZ1jZbYyTCyI 8Y7NQyiE/akAXQiUb1MHIezN7QpzHEpGxDyVr3tEYF26deJ8sVBxzd+m2wSWyFlT dPyuTxJJFIRCYtK5wpbPhrDlQfwL5riDzIhnBBgRCAAPBQJUhZtzAhsMBQkB4TOA AAoJEOlYxdZxi/WXW8wA/jWWfofUPZYg3QOquXIR/QDTm/fsQwTx+2vO4nEXRKlq AP0YOSlkGoCbaeFHgX+RU5lVfHzRyONK5T7RcDTcvJD83A== =v6Cq -END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK- On Thu, Dec 11, 2014 at 8:47 PM, Alexander Ploumistos alex.ploumis...@gmail.com wrote: 2014-12-12 2:37 GMT+02:00 john.tiger john.tigernas...@gmail.com: Am willing to work on this - can mock up the input screens - just point the direction of how to help Then you should get in touch with the Anaconda team: fedoraproject.org/wiki/Anaconda -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: Fedora Installation Needs Intelligence
On Thu, Dec 11, 2014 at 22:26:50 -0500, Corey Sheldon sheldon.co...@gmail.com wrote: also, seeing as much of that is in the Install Guide and/or release notes it is expected the user will check that and that extra documentation on the live takes up space fast and size constraints do exist for ISOs Most of the lives are targeting small (1-2 GB) USB devices now rather the DVDs and aren't really that size constrained any more. -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: Fedora Installation Needs Intelligence
On Fri, 12 Dec 2014 01:37:52 +0100, john.tiger wrote: 2) If key requirement is missing / insufficient then pop suggestion - if it's a non shipping proprietary issue, then provide popup dialog info and links to get problem solved - none of the current go look it up - needs the right info right there First wireless is not a requirement, I do not use wireless anywhere for PCs as wired connection is in all aspects (except for the wire) better. Second Fedora has more strict Free software policy: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Forbidden_items The proprietary software and drivers discussed may be available from the respective owners and other vendors. Fedora Project instead highly recommends that you support the right vendors and get hardware that can work with completely free and open source software From my own experience I had nVidia gfx card in one computer and its user wanted 3D so I trashed that crap and bought there ATI gfx card instead. Since that time everything works out of the box. Low-end Free software friendly card is really not such a financial burden. The same can be applied to WiFi USB - when one was unfortunate to buy/get Free software hostile hardware in the first place. Jan -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: Fedora Installation Needs Intelligence
Wireless is a requirement for laptops. For example, Macbook Air doesn't have an ethernet port. On 12 December 2014 at 12:44, Jan Kratochvil jan.kratoch...@redhat.com wrote: On Fri, 12 Dec 2014 01:37:52 +0100, john.tiger wrote: 2) If key requirement is missing / insufficient then pop suggestion - if it's a non shipping proprietary issue, then provide popup dialog info and links to get problem solved - none of the current go look it up - needs the right info right there First wireless is not a requirement, I do not use wireless anywhere for PCs as wired connection is in all aspects (except for the wire) better. Second Fedora has more strict Free software policy: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Forbidden_items The proprietary software and drivers discussed may be available from the respective owners and other vendors. Fedora Project instead highly recommends that you support the right vendors and get hardware that can work with completely free and open source software From my own experience I had nVidia gfx card in one computer and its user wanted 3D so I trashed that crap and bought there ATI gfx card instead. Since that time everything works out of the box. Low-end Free software friendly card is really not such a financial burden. The same can be applied to WiFi USB - when one was unfortunate to buy/get Free software hostile hardware in the first place. Jan -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct -- Satyajit Sahoo Digital artist DeviantArt Profile http://satya164.deviantart.com We're all stories, in the end. Just make it a good one, eh? — The Doctor, Season 5, Episode 13. -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: Fedora Installation Needs Intelligence
On Fri, 12 Dec 2014 08:17:45 +0100, Satyajit Sahoo wrote: Wireless is a requirement for laptops. For example, Macbook Air doesn't have an ethernet port. s/requirement for laptops/requirement for Macbook Air/ Sure the installer could be improved but slightly differently (soft warning if there is wired but no wireless connection, red warning if there is neither wired nor wireless connection; but no connection is still valid for example for test VMs). Jan -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: Fedora Installation Needs Intelligence
Okay, forget Macbook Air. I don't have ethernet at my office, and it's the only place where I have internet. What can I do then? Wireless might not be a strict requirement, but still essential. Also, why did Macbook Air come to the Not laptop category? On 12 December 2014 at 12:55, Jan Kratochvil jan.kratoch...@redhat.com wrote: On Fri, 12 Dec 2014 08:17:45 +0100, Satyajit Sahoo wrote: Wireless is a requirement for laptops. For example, Macbook Air doesn't have an ethernet port. s/requirement for laptops/requirement for Macbook Air/ Sure the installer could be improved but slightly differently (soft warning if there is wired but no wireless connection, red warning if there is neither wired nor wireless connection; but no connection is still valid for example for test VMs). Jan -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct -- Satyajit Sahoo Digital artist DeviantArt Profile http://satya164.deviantart.com We're all stories, in the end. Just make it a good one, eh? — The Doctor, Season 5, Episode 13. -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: Fedora Installation Needs Intelligence
On 12/12/2014 08:25 AM, Jan Kratochvil wrote: On Fri, 12 Dec 2014 08:17:45 +0100, Satyajit Sahoo wrote: Wireless is a requirement for laptops. For example, Macbook Air doesn't have an ethernet port. s/requirement for laptops/requirement for Macbook Air/ No. These days, many (esp. low-end) notebooks, do not come with an ethernet port. Not worth mentioning these chrome-/win-books/~tablet-style mobile devices. Sure the installer could be improved but slightly differently (soft warning if there is wired but no wireless connection, red warning if there is neither wired nor wireless connection; but no connection is still valid for example for test VMs). In other words, the OP has a good point: The installer needs more intelligence. Ralf -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
