Re: Poll: Does ACPI lid state work on your Linux laptop?
On Thu, Jul 21, 2011 at 08:52:08AM -0700, Adam Williamson wrote: On Tue, 2011-07-19 at 23:14 +0300, Pasi Kärkkäinen wrote: On Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 09:56:11AM -0700, Adam Williamson wrote: On Tue, 2011-07-19 at 13:46 +0300, Pasi Kärkkäinen wrote: I think I recall discussing this with the anaconda team before; we agreed in principle that it would make sense for anaconda to default to clone mode, but the problem is X doesn't have any very easy mechanism for overriding the default, there is no simple command line parameter anaconda could pass to X to launch it in clone mode instead of span mode. anaconda would have to include an X config stub to specify clone mode and then ensure that stub wasn't installed. I think no-one got around to getting that done yet. I'm not sure if there's a bug for it, but you could have a look. Did you mean Redhat bugzilla or Freedesktop/Xorg bugzilla? With some searching I couldn't find one.. should I file a bugreport/rfe? I don't recall, it may well have been just an IRC conversation. A bug report would certainly be a good idea, then we won't lose track of it again =) Ok :) Should I file it against xorg or anaconda? The basic bug - 'anaconda should run in clone not span mode' - against anaconda. Depending on how that bug goes, we may wind up filing some kind of enhancement request for X, I guess. Done. anaconda should run in clone not span mode: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=725219 -- Pasi -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Poll: Does ACPI lid state work on your Linux laptop?
On Tue, 2011-07-19 at 23:14 +0300, Pasi Kärkkäinen wrote: On Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 09:56:11AM -0700, Adam Williamson wrote: On Tue, 2011-07-19 at 13:46 +0300, Pasi Kärkkäinen wrote: I think I recall discussing this with the anaconda team before; we agreed in principle that it would make sense for anaconda to default to clone mode, but the problem is X doesn't have any very easy mechanism for overriding the default, there is no simple command line parameter anaconda could pass to X to launch it in clone mode instead of span mode. anaconda would have to include an X config stub to specify clone mode and then ensure that stub wasn't installed. I think no-one got around to getting that done yet. I'm not sure if there's a bug for it, but you could have a look. Did you mean Redhat bugzilla or Freedesktop/Xorg bugzilla? With some searching I couldn't find one.. should I file a bugreport/rfe? I don't recall, it may well have been just an IRC conversation. A bug report would certainly be a good idea, then we won't lose track of it again =) Ok :) Should I file it against xorg or anaconda? The basic bug - 'anaconda should run in clone not span mode' - against anaconda. Depending on how that bug goes, we may wind up filing some kind of enhancement request for X, I guess. -- Adam Williamson Fedora QA Community Monkey IRC: adamw http://www.happyassassin.net -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Poll: Does ACPI lid state work on your Linux laptop?
On Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 10:37:51AM +0300, Pasi Kärkkäinen wrote: On Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 09:11:23AM +0200, Hans de Goede wrote: Hi, On 07/13/2011 07:47 PM, Adam Williamson wrote: On Wed, 2011-07-13 at 11:35 -0400, Adam Jackson wrote: On Wed, 2011-07-13 at 16:57 +0200, Hans de Goede wrote: Maybe it it is an idea to build a whitelist for machines which do have working ACPI lid support? I realize maintaining such a list is a pain, but this way people who care and are lucky enough to have actually working hardware can at least use this ? It's an idea, but not one I'd do. Either a whitelist or a blacklist would be oppressively large. I suppose a whitelist has the advantage that it can't hurt anything compared to the current state, and no matter how short it is, it benefits *some* people. Yeah, that is my main reason for suggesting this, thanks for wording it so eloquently for me :) Note I'm not volunteering to do the work -ENOTIME. Would something like use_acpi_lid_status kernel cmdline option be too ugly? :) At least it would be easy to parse (grep /proc/cmdline) .. Any comments about this way of doing it? -- Pasi -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Poll: Does ACPI lid state work on your Linux laptop?
On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 10:44:21AM -0700, Adam Williamson wrote: On Wed, 2011-07-13 at 15:21 +0300, Pasi Kärkkäinen wrote: On Tue, Jul 12, 2011 at 05:01:11PM -0400, Adam Jackson wrote: On Tue, 2011-07-12 at 23:44 +0300, Pasi Kärkkäinen wrote: Hello list, I'm curious to know how many laptops have problems with ACPI lid state in Linux. I've been told some laptops report wrong lid state through ACPI, while my laptop seems to report it properly. Once you have this data, what do you intend to do with it? Good question. I was just curious to know how widespread problem that is. I tend to use my laptop in the docking station, only using external monitor, so it's annoying when testing new alpha/beta/final Fedora releases and Fedora uses the internal lvds, under the *closed* lid, as a primary display.. ie. the installer/livedesktop is not visible at all on my setup, until I open the lid. So just trying to find some kind of workaround to that.. Using clone-mode as a default would solve the problem.. (now the default mode in Fedora is to use extended desktop) I think I recall discussing this with the anaconda team before; we agreed in principle that it would make sense for anaconda to default to clone mode, but the problem is X doesn't have any very easy mechanism for overriding the default, there is no simple command line parameter anaconda could pass to X to launch it in clone mode instead of span mode. anaconda would have to include an X config stub to specify clone mode and then ensure that stub wasn't installed. I think no-one got around to getting that done yet. I'm not sure if there's a bug for it, but you could have a look. Did you mean Redhat bugzilla or Freedesktop/Xorg bugzilla? With some searching I couldn't find one.. should I file a bugreport/rfe? -- Pasi -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Poll: Does ACPI lid state work on your Linux laptop?
On Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 01:42:30PM +0300, Pasi Kärkkäinen wrote: On Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 10:37:51AM +0300, Pasi Kärkkäinen wrote: Would something like use_acpi_lid_status kernel cmdline option be too ugly? :) At least it would be easy to parse (grep /proc/cmdline) .. Any comments about this way of doing it? I don't think introducing two separate codepaths is helpful here. One's inevitably going to end up less well tested. -- Matthew Garrett | mj...@srcf.ucam.org -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Poll: Does ACPI lid state work on your Linux laptop?
On Tue, 2011-07-19 at 13:46 +0300, Pasi Kärkkäinen wrote: I think I recall discussing this with the anaconda team before; we agreed in principle that it would make sense for anaconda to default to clone mode, but the problem is X doesn't have any very easy mechanism for overriding the default, there is no simple command line parameter anaconda could pass to X to launch it in clone mode instead of span mode. anaconda would have to include an X config stub to specify clone mode and then ensure that stub wasn't installed. I think no-one got around to getting that done yet. I'm not sure if there's a bug for it, but you could have a look. Did you mean Redhat bugzilla or Freedesktop/Xorg bugzilla? With some searching I couldn't find one.. should I file a bugreport/rfe? I don't recall, it may well have been just an IRC conversation. A bug report would certainly be a good idea, then we won't lose track of it again =) -- Adam Williamson Fedora QA Community Monkey IRC: adamw http://www.happyassassin.net -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Poll: Does ACPI lid state work on your Linux laptop?
On Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 09:56:11AM -0700, Adam Williamson wrote: On Tue, 2011-07-19 at 13:46 +0300, Pasi Kärkkäinen wrote: I think I recall discussing this with the anaconda team before; we agreed in principle that it would make sense for anaconda to default to clone mode, but the problem is X doesn't have any very easy mechanism for overriding the default, there is no simple command line parameter anaconda could pass to X to launch it in clone mode instead of span mode. anaconda would have to include an X config stub to specify clone mode and then ensure that stub wasn't installed. I think no-one got around to getting that done yet. I'm not sure if there's a bug for it, but you could have a look. Did you mean Redhat bugzilla or Freedesktop/Xorg bugzilla? With some searching I couldn't find one.. should I file a bugreport/rfe? I don't recall, it may well have been just an IRC conversation. A bug report would certainly be a good idea, then we won't lose track of it again =) Ok :) Should I file it against xorg or anaconda? -- Pasi -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Poll: Does ACPI lid state work on your Linux laptop?
Hi, On 07/13/2011 07:47 PM, Adam Williamson wrote: On Wed, 2011-07-13 at 11:35 -0400, Adam Jackson wrote: On Wed, 2011-07-13 at 16:57 +0200, Hans de Goede wrote: Maybe it it is an idea to build a whitelist for machines which do have working ACPI lid support? I realize maintaining such a list is a pain, but this way people who care and are lucky enough to have actually working hardware can at least use this ? It's an idea, but not one I'd do. Either a whitelist or a blacklist would be oppressively large. I suppose a whitelist has the advantage that it can't hurt anything compared to the current state, and no matter how short it is, it benefits *some* people. Yeah, that is my main reason for suggesting this, thanks for wording it so eloquently for me :) Note I'm not volunteering to do the work -ENOTIME. Regards, Hans -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Poll: Does ACPI lid state work on your Linux laptop?
On Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 09:11:23AM +0200, Hans de Goede wrote: Hi, On 07/13/2011 07:47 PM, Adam Williamson wrote: On Wed, 2011-07-13 at 11:35 -0400, Adam Jackson wrote: On Wed, 2011-07-13 at 16:57 +0200, Hans de Goede wrote: Maybe it it is an idea to build a whitelist for machines which do have working ACPI lid support? I realize maintaining such a list is a pain, but this way people who care and are lucky enough to have actually working hardware can at least use this ? It's an idea, but not one I'd do. Either a whitelist or a blacklist would be oppressively large. I suppose a whitelist has the advantage that it can't hurt anything compared to the current state, and no matter how short it is, it benefits *some* people. Yeah, that is my main reason for suggesting this, thanks for wording it so eloquently for me :) Note I'm not volunteering to do the work -ENOTIME. Would something like use_acpi_lid_status kernel cmdline option be too ugly? :) At least it would be easy to parse (grep /proc/cmdline) .. -- Pasi -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Poll: Does ACPI lid state work on your Linux laptop?
What are the typical faults, and is it impossible to work around them, maybe autodetecting if they are working or not? For a laptop without an external display I would expect it to suspend when the lid is closed, as that is what I usually configure. However, it's not hard to imagine a feature of the desktop, such that if the user has an external display and has disabled the main display using xrandr or similar, then lid events are received, opening the lid could cause a dialog to pop up on the other monitor It appears that your laptop lid has opened... [] turn the laptop panel on when the lid opens [] always do this without asking [] don't ask me again -Cam On Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 8:37 AM, Pasi Kärkkäinen pa...@iki.fi wrote: On Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 09:11:23AM +0200, Hans de Goede wrote: Hi, On 07/13/2011 07:47 PM, Adam Williamson wrote: On Wed, 2011-07-13 at 11:35 -0400, Adam Jackson wrote: On Wed, 2011-07-13 at 16:57 +0200, Hans de Goede wrote: Maybe it it is an idea to build a whitelist for machines which do have working ACPI lid support? I realize maintaining such a list is a pain, but this way people who care and are lucky enough to have actually working hardware can at least use this ? It's an idea, but not one I'd do. Either a whitelist or a blacklist would be oppressively large. I suppose a whitelist has the advantage that it can't hurt anything compared to the current state, and no matter how short it is, it benefits *some* people. Yeah, that is my main reason for suggesting this, thanks for wording it so eloquently for me :) Note I'm not volunteering to do the work -ENOTIME. Would something like use_acpi_lid_status kernel cmdline option be too ugly? :) At least it would be easy to parse (grep /proc/cmdline) .. -- Pasi -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Poll: Does ACPI lid state work on your Linux laptop?
On Tue, Jul 12, 2011 at 05:01:11PM -0400, Adam Jackson wrote: On Tue, 2011-07-12 at 23:44 +0300, Pasi Kärkkäinen wrote: Hello list, I'm curious to know how many laptops have problems with ACPI lid state in Linux. I've been told some laptops report wrong lid state through ACPI, while my laptop seems to report it properly. Once you have this data, what do you intend to do with it? Good question. I was just curious to know how widespread problem that is. I tend to use my laptop in the docking station, only using external monitor, so it's annoying when testing new alpha/beta/final Fedora releases and Fedora uses the internal lvds, under the *closed* lid, as a primary display.. ie. the installer/livedesktop is not visible at all on my setup, until I open the lid. So just trying to find some kind of workaround to that.. Using clone-mode as a default would solve the problem.. (now the default mode in Fedora is to use extended desktop) -- Pasi -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Poll: Does ACPI lid state work on your Linux laptop?
On Tue, Jul 12, 2011 at 10:01:25PM +0100, Matthew Garrett wrote: On Tue, Jul 12, 2011 at 11:44:59PM +0300, Pasi Kärkkäinen wrote: I guess that should cover all the usecases.. Please post your findings to this list. Please don't. ACPI lid state is not reliable on a range of hardware for a bunch of reasons, ranging from open events that are never fired to query methods that read from the wrong register. We can't pay attention to it by default, and running a survey doesn't change that. Ok. Do you know if there are other (better working) methods to get the lid state info? -- Pasi -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Poll: Does ACPI lid state work on your Linux laptop?
On Wed, 2011-07-13 at 15:22 +0300, Pasi Kärkkäinen wrote: On Tue, Jul 12, 2011 at 10:01:25PM +0100, Matthew Garrett wrote: Please don't. ACPI lid state is not reliable on a range of hardware for a bunch of reasons, ranging from open events that are never fired to query methods that read from the wrong register. We can't pay attention to it by default, and running a survey doesn't change that. Ok. Do you know if there are other (better working) methods to get the lid state info? If we knew of any, they'd be implemented in the kernel, and we'd be using them. I know this is a frustrating thing to hear, and I empathize, I really do. But the state of the art right now is that there's one interface for laptop lids, it's in ACPI, and it's not reliable. Once upon a time there was an effort to make a Linux-based test kit for firmware [1], so vendors could run it before releasing hardware and verify that the Linux interfaces function. Lid state and lid events could have been one such test case. Sadly the effort seems to have stagnated; it could really use a revival. But even such a test kit would only fix new hardware, existing machines will continue to be as broken as they currently are forever. [1] - http://linuxfirmwarekit.org/ - ajax signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Poll: Does ACPI lid state work on your Linux laptop?
Hi, On 07/13/2011 04:11 PM, Adam Jackson wrote: On Wed, 2011-07-13 at 15:22 +0300, Pasi Kärkkäinen wrote: On Tue, Jul 12, 2011 at 10:01:25PM +0100, Matthew Garrett wrote: Please don't. ACPI lid state is not reliable on a range of hardware for a bunch of reasons, ranging from open events that are never fired to query methods that read from the wrong register. We can't pay attention to it by default, and running a survey doesn't change that. Ok. Do you know if there are other (better working) methods to get the lid state info? If we knew of any, they'd be implemented in the kernel, and we'd be using them. I know this is a frustrating thing to hear, and I empathize, I really do. But the state of the art right now is that there's one interface for laptop lids, it's in ACPI, and it's not reliable. Once upon a time there was an effort to make a Linux-based test kit for firmware [1], so vendors could run it before releasing hardware and verify that the Linux interfaces function. Lid state and lid events could have been one such test case. Sadly the effort seems to have stagnated; it could really use a revival. But even such a test kit would only fix new hardware, existing machines will continue to be as broken as they currently are forever. Maybe it it is an idea to build a whitelist for machines which do have working ACPI lid support? I realize maintaining such a list is a pain, but this way people who care and are lucky enough to have actually working hardware can at least use this ? Regards, Hans -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Poll: Does ACPI lid state work on your Linux laptop?
On Wed, 2011-07-13 at 16:57 +0200, Hans de Goede wrote: Maybe it it is an idea to build a whitelist for machines which do have working ACPI lid support? I realize maintaining such a list is a pain, but this way people who care and are lucky enough to have actually working hardware can at least use this ? It's an idea, but not one I'd do. Either a whitelist or a blacklist would be oppressively large. - ajax signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Poll: Does ACPI lid state work on your Linux laptop?
On Wed, 2011-07-13 at 15:21 +0300, Pasi Kärkkäinen wrote: On Tue, Jul 12, 2011 at 05:01:11PM -0400, Adam Jackson wrote: On Tue, 2011-07-12 at 23:44 +0300, Pasi Kärkkäinen wrote: Hello list, I'm curious to know how many laptops have problems with ACPI lid state in Linux. I've been told some laptops report wrong lid state through ACPI, while my laptop seems to report it properly. Once you have this data, what do you intend to do with it? Good question. I was just curious to know how widespread problem that is. I tend to use my laptop in the docking station, only using external monitor, so it's annoying when testing new alpha/beta/final Fedora releases and Fedora uses the internal lvds, under the *closed* lid, as a primary display.. ie. the installer/livedesktop is not visible at all on my setup, until I open the lid. So just trying to find some kind of workaround to that.. Using clone-mode as a default would solve the problem.. (now the default mode in Fedora is to use extended desktop) I think I recall discussing this with the anaconda team before; we agreed in principle that it would make sense for anaconda to default to clone mode, but the problem is X doesn't have any very easy mechanism for overriding the default, there is no simple command line parameter anaconda could pass to X to launch it in clone mode instead of span mode. anaconda would have to include an X config stub to specify clone mode and then ensure that stub wasn't installed. I think no-one got around to getting that done yet. I'm not sure if there's a bug for it, but you could have a look. -- Adam Williamson Fedora QA Community Monkey IRC: adamw http://www.happyassassin.net -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Poll: Does ACPI lid state work on your Linux laptop?
On Wed, 2011-07-13 at 11:35 -0400, Adam Jackson wrote: On Wed, 2011-07-13 at 16:57 +0200, Hans de Goede wrote: Maybe it it is an idea to build a whitelist for machines which do have working ACPI lid support? I realize maintaining such a list is a pain, but this way people who care and are lucky enough to have actually working hardware can at least use this ? It's an idea, but not one I'd do. Either a whitelist or a blacklist would be oppressively large. I suppose a whitelist has the advantage that it can't hurt anything compared to the current state, and no matter how short it is, it benefits *some* people. -- Adam Williamson Fedora QA Community Monkey IRC: adamw http://www.happyassassin.net -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Poll: Does ACPI lid state work on your Linux laptop?
On Wed, 2011-07-13 at 10:47 -0700, Adam Williamson wrote: On Wed, 2011-07-13 at 11:35 -0400, Adam Jackson wrote: On Wed, 2011-07-13 at 16:57 +0200, Hans de Goede wrote: Maybe it it is an idea to build a whitelist for machines which do have working ACPI lid support? I realize maintaining such a list is a pain, but this way people who care and are lucky enough to have actually working hardware can at least use this ? It's an idea, but not one I'd do. Either a whitelist or a blacklist would be oppressively large. I suppose a whitelist has the advantage that it can't hurt anything compared to the current state, and no matter how short it is, it benefits *some* people. Oh, and depending on how it was implemented, it would provide a way for competent users to manually add their own systems to the whitelist and enable lid state functionality if they were happy with its performance on their particular system; right now there's no way you can say 'no, really, the lid switch works on my system, please use it'. -- Adam Williamson Fedora QA Community Monkey IRC: adamw http://www.happyassassin.net -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Poll: Does ACPI lid state work on your Linux laptop?
On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 12:50 PM, Adam Williamson awill...@redhat.com wrote: Oh, and depending on how it was implemented, it would provide a way for competent users to manually add their own systems to the whitelist and enable lid state functionality if they were happy with its performance on their particular system; right now there's no way you can say 'no, really, the lid switch works on my system, please use it'. I'm not volunteering since I don't have enough time or programming skill, but... What about some kind of simple (python?) GUI interface that would first check against a whitelist, then if not on it could test for the correct events by instructing the user clone and open their lids a few times and then (if successful) ask the user if they want to enable lid support? Thanks, Richard -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Poll: Does ACPI lid state work on your Linux laptop?
Hello list, I'm curious to know how many laptops have problems with ACPI lid state in Linux. I've been told some laptops report wrong lid state through ACPI, while my laptop seems to report it properly. This poll is related to Fedora bugreport: ACPI LID state ignored on laptop, wrong display used for desktop/installer: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=712706 So, if you want to help and test this on your laptop, please try these things with recent Fedora/kernel: - You can check the ACPI lid state like this: cat /proc/acpi/button/lid/LID/state - Set up external monitor/display, and disable the laptop internal LVDS display panel using xrandr or gnome display settings tool. 1) Close the laptop LID and then check the lid state. Is it reported correct? 2) Open the laptop LID and then check the lid state. Is it reported correct? 3) Repeat the previous steps multiple times. Is the lid state still reported correctly? 4) Reboot the laptop with LID closed. Then check the lid state, is it properly reported as closed? 5) Reboot the laptop with LID open. Then check the lid state, is it properly reported as open? The point of checks 4 and 5 is to verify the initial lid state is correctly reported. I guess that should cover all the usecases.. Please post your findings to this list. btw. if you don't have external display you could also ssh into the laptop and run the tests over ssh. Thanks! -- Pasi -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
