Re: Any progress in Software Center in Fedora effort?
On Sun, Oct 07, 2012 at 06:51:26PM +0200, tim.laurid...@gmail.com wrote: The ultimate software center is a web application, like Google playstore. +1 Why to waste time creating a desktop app when this could be in the cloud already. Plus this could be turned into a desktop web app easily, browser just need to handle links correctly. Remember Lindows with their Click-And-Run (TM) technology? It was a great idea by the way, years before App Store and these kinds of things. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linspire -- Later, Lukas lzap Zapletal #katello #systemengine -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Any progress in Software Center in Fedora effort?
tim.laurid...@gmail.com píše v Ne 07. 10. 2012 v 18:51 +0200: On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 5:19 PM, Jiri Eischmann eischm...@redhat.com wrote: Hi, the possibility of Software Center in Fedora has already been discussed several times, last time a few month ago. I read an article about a successful Google Summer of Code project [1] whose goal was to make Software Center a distribution independent program using PackageKit. Matthias even made an Ubuntu-independent infrastructure for AppStream (additional data about packages/apps). I wonder if there are still any efforts to get it to Fedora and what it would require from our infrastructure. If I understand it correctly, there are currently three options: 1) Software Center based on PackageKit by Matthias 2) Light Software Center - a new app based on PackageKit from the beginning 3) Apper already supports AppStream [2] I'm asking because I hear from many (not only) beginners that they would appreciate something like Ubuntu Software Center in Fedora. I guess it's one of the main reasons why many users rather go for Ubuntu than Fedora. Jiri [1] http://blog.tenstral.net/2012/08/gsoc-appstream-final-report.html [2] http://blog.tenstral.net/2012/08/appstream-for-apper.html -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel The ultimate software center is a web application, like Google playstore. All the rating and commenting and other info, need to be centrally maintained and it is not a good idea to try to distribute this kind of metadata. There shall just be a local installer to install the packages triggered by the web app. Another thing is what the users of Fedora and most other linux'es is not my old mother and most of these users, don't care about a big fancy software shop. I strongly disagree. Believe me, as a community manager in Red Hat I communicate with community members and normal users on daily basis. And the question When is Fedora going to have something like Software Center is one of the most frequent ones. And I also disagree it's about our mums and dads. We went to a local university last week to introduce Fedora to new computer science students. Those are users we're highly interested in. But for most of them, it's the first contact with Linux and questions and opinions like Where can I search only for app or Looking for apps among packages is not very convenient were very frequent. So nobody is going to do this great amount of work it takes to make a great webstore, Ubuntu need it for the same ways as Apple, they want to earn some money.) As someone already wrote, this is not about money, this is about user experience. Software Center only with free software would be a big improvement over what we have now. It is an illusion that if we just have a fancy webstore, every body will start using Fedora IMHO. Nobody simplifies it like this. Software Center is just one of pieces in the puzzle. It will be nice if more people uses Fedora, but it not the main target, the greatness of Fedora is not measured but how many user it have, compared to other Linuxes or other os'es. Yeah, the number of users might not be the main goal for Fedora, but without users, we won't achieve our actual goals. Less users leads in long term to less contributors, for example. Jiri -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Any progress in Software Center in Fedora effort?
Reindl Harald píše v Ne 07. 10. 2012 v 20:02 +0200: Am 07.10.2012 19:55, schrieb drago01: Maybe maybe not. The point is that a fancy software shop would result into this old mother type of user consider to use fedora. A user ultimately don't care about packages but about applications. Other distritors are moving in this direction while we fall behind. We should lead here like we do in other areas. why do we need to lead everywehre for every price? It will be nice if more people uses Fedora, but it not the main target, the greatness of Fedora is not measured but how many user it have, compared to other Linuxes or other os'es. Well without users (and growth) it will become irrelevant and thus it will become harder to achieve anything else. nobody says without users but do we really need every noob as user? Why does some of us imply it's about noobs? I know about many experienced Fedora users and contributors who would appreciate it, too. And why are noobs something unwanted? As I said above, most new computer science students at our local technical university are Linux noobs who would appreciate something like this. They have potential to be good contributors in a few years if Fedora hooks them up now. Unfortunately, our competition is more successful at this and it will have an impact on our contributor base in long term. why have we different operating systems and distributions if all satisfies the same user-base for every price? there is also a need for a clean and straight forwarded linux without compromises only to fetch users better satisfied with OSX or windows How would Software Center hold you from enjoying clean and straight forwarded Linux? It's just an app. Anyone who'd like to would be able to use YUM, YUMEX, Add/Remove, Apper,... Jiri -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Any progress in Software Center in Fedora effort?
On Sun, Oct 07, 2012 at 09:32:33PM +0300, Nikos Roussos wrote: I still haven't understand what it takes to get this started. Besides of course from having some people dedicating some time on that. Convincing infrastructure team is the first step? Does this need to get through FESCO first? Writing up a specific plan is the first step. -- Matthew Miller ☁☁☁ Fedora Cloud Architect ☁☁☁ mat...@fedoraproject.org -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Any progress in Software Center in Fedora effort?
Am 08.10.2012 10:49, schrieb Jiri Eischmann: Reindl Harald píše v Ne 07. 10. 2012 v 20:02 +0200: why have we different operating systems and distributions if all satisfies the same user-base for every price? there is also a need for a clean and straight forwarded linux without compromises only to fetch users better satisfied with OSX or windows How would Software Center hold you from enjoying clean and straight forwarded Linux? It's just an app. Anyone who'd like to would be able to use YUM, YUMEX, Add/Remove, Apper,... hopefully this will be true there are many environments with no need for packagekit/software center and if dependencies will still be careful to not pull many packages as cross-deps all are satisfied signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Any progress in Software Center in Fedora effort?
On 10/08/2012 10:49 AM, Jiri Eischmann wrote: Reindl Harald píše v Ne 07. 10. 2012 v 20:02 +0200: Am 07.10.2012 19:55, schrieb drago01: Maybe maybe not. The point is that a fancy software shop would result into this old mother type of user consider to use fedora. A user ultimately don't care about packages but about applications. Other distritors are moving in this direction while we fall behind. We should lead here like we do in other areas. why do we need to lead everywehre for every price? It will be nice if more people uses Fedora, but it not the main target, the greatness of Fedora is not measured but how many user it have, compared to other Linuxes or other os'es. Well without users (and growth) it will become irrelevant and thus it will become harder to achieve anything else. nobody says without users but do we really need every noob as user? Why does some of us imply it's about noobs? Because hardly any of the non-noobs misses this Software Center and because non-noobs know that the term apps is an Apple/Google marketing hype? Anyone who'd like to would be able to use YUM, YUMEX, Add/Remove, Apper,... Pardon, I do not understand what's your problem is. If it's just a yet another frontend/GUI program, why not package it? If it requires some server side infrastructure you will have to talk to FESCO. Ralf -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Any progress in Software Center in Fedora effort?
On Mon, 2012-10-08 at 16:49 +0200, Ralf Corsepius wrote: On 10/08/2012 10:49 AM, Jiri Eischmann wrote: Reindl Harald píše v Ne 07. 10. 2012 v 20:02 +0200: Am 07.10.2012 19:55, schrieb drago01: Maybe maybe not. The point is that a fancy software shop would result into this old mother type of user consider to use fedora. A user ultimately don't care about packages but about applications. Other distritors are moving in this direction while we fall behind. We should lead here like we do in other areas. why do we need to lead everywehre for every price? It will be nice if more people uses Fedora, but it not the main target, the greatness of Fedora is not measured but how many user it have, compared to other Linuxes or other os'es. Well without users (and growth) it will become irrelevant and thus it will become harder to achieve anything else. nobody says without users but do we really need every noob as user? Why does some of us imply it's about noobs? Because hardly any of the non-noobs misses this Software Center and because non-noobs know that the term apps is an Apple/Google marketing hype? User experience is important for everyone. Not just noobs. And currently Fedora is certainly not first when it comes on Applications installation user experience. -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Any progress in Software Center in Fedora effort?
On Mon, Oct 8, 2012 at 4:17 PM, Nikos Roussos comzer...@fedoraproject.orgwrote: ** On Mon, 2012-10-08 at 16:49 +0200, Ralf Corsepius wrote: On 10/08/2012 10:49 AM, Jiri Eischmann wrote: Reindl Harald píše v Ne 07. 10. 2012 v 20:02 +0200: Am 07.10.2012 19:55, schrieb drago01: Maybe maybe not. The point is that a fancy software shop would result into this old mother type of user consider to use fedora. A user ultimately don't care about packages but about applications. Other distritors are moving in this direction while we fall behind. We should lead here like we do in other areas. why do we need to lead everywehre for every price? It will be nice if more people uses Fedora, but it not the main target, the greatness of Fedora is not measured but how many user it have, compared to other Linuxes or other os'es. Well without users (and growth) it will become irrelevant and thus it will become harder to achieve anything else. nobody says without users but do we really need every noob as user? Why does some of us imply it's about noobs? Because hardly any of the non-noobs misses this Software Center and because non-noobs know that the term apps is an Apple/Google marketing hype? User experience is important for everyone. Not just noobs. And currently Fedora is certainly not first when it comes on Applications installation user experience. -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Advantages: - Do not depend on one or more managers to install something. - More easy admin packages for end-users - In desktops or window managers is more practical to use a software center on another environment managers and many bookstores such as Openbox, wmii, Fluxbox NOTE: openSUSE has got YaST (good!) withouth remove to Ark. Is no excuse to not create it if you follow the upstream projects like GNOME or KDE. Disadvantages - Much time and effort - Search people interested in doing it -- Álvaro Castillo http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Netsys Linux user #547784 -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Any progress in Software Center in Fedora effort?
On 5 October 2012 15:42, Richard Hughes hughsi...@gmail.com wrote: On 5 October 2012 16:19, Jiri Eischmann eischm...@redhat.com wrote: 1) Software Center based on PackageKit by Matthias 2) Light Software Center - a new app based on PackageKit from the beginning 3) Apper already supports AppStream [2] Basically, Fedora needs to ship Appstream metadata and then we can just include any one of the two existing projects. To that, we need someone who's got an interest in working with the infrastructure guys in Fedora. I tried, but failed. It is not just infrastructure, but I understand we are a major blocker. Getting past the legal blockers is possible but infrastructure wants a plan, a continuing budget and a bodies that are dedicated to the project. Fedora has a huge history of Hey this is a great idea! and getting a 30% solution put out with the idea that it will become a 80% solution if people just wish hard enough... instead the people who started it go off to new stuff that interests them and the people who come after either throw away what was done before or find that real life has other plans for them. And then infrastructure gets handed the reigns of the nearly dead website, phone service, etc. And when we say we can't support it.. we have to spend a year proving that we can't get anyone to step up while everyone says Geez infrastructure can't do anything right. Look we have a lot of great ideas that we all would love to have happen. However just because we have them doesn't mean we have the resources to make them happen. There needs to be web design, web application coding, processes for getting applications in and approved, servers and disk space for this. Those are the hardest part and it is a blocker because if no one is around to keep a service going and growing it quickly becomes run by cargo cult. -- Stephen J Smoogen. Don't derail a useful feature for the 99% because you're not in it. Linus Torvalds Years ago my mother used to say to me,... Elwood, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. You may quote me. —James Stewart as Elwood P. Dowd -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Any progress in Software Center in Fedora effort?
On Mon, Oct 8, 2012 at 9:49 PM, Stephen John Smoogen smo...@gmail.com wrote: [...] There needs to be web design, web application coding, processes for getting applications in and approved, servers and disk space for this. Those are the hardest part and it is a blocker because if no one is around to keep a service going and growing it quickly becomes run by cargo cult. No one but Tim asked for a web based solution. We don't need an application submission process either, just present the applications we have in a more usable manner (i.e applications not packages). The code for a native application support is mostly there. People that want to maintain this code are also present. What is missing is generating the required metadata (which requires support from the infrastructure team). -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Any progress in Software Center in Fedora effort?
On Mon, Oct 08, 2012 at 10:39:21PM +0200, drago01 wrote: No one but Tim asked for a web based solution. We don't need an application submission process either, just present the applications we have in a more usable manner (i.e applications not packages). The code for a native application support is mostly there. People that want to maintain this code are also present. What is missing is generating the required metadata (which requires support from the infrastructure team). Let me check my understanding for this metadata, we need to, at repository compose time: 1. look in each rpm for a desktop file 2. pull the desktop file out of the rpm 3. put that info into a data structure 4. write that out as xml Is there more? So, in addition to putting forth an overall plan -- which is still an important step! -- it looks like an obvious thing to do is work on adding this functionality to createrepo. Then it's just a matter of asking the release engineering team to turn it on, right? (And helping deal with any performance costs -- it's unfortunate that the file has to be pulled out of the RPM. If this is very successful, a future version of RPM could add metadata from the desktop file at build time.) Alternately, this could be done asynchronously, since the metadata doesn't care about specific package version and release, just the name, so if they get a little out of sync it's probably okay. So it _could_ be a separate tool. Here, there's no reason someone couldn't stand this up separately as a proof of concept. And, a yum plugin could be written that would search on and install these applications, just as yum currently handles groupinstall. -- Matthew Miller ☁☁☁ Fedora Cloud Architect ☁☁☁ mat...@fedoraproject.org -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Any progress in Software Center in Fedora effort?
On Mon, 8 Oct 2012 22:39:21 +0200 drago01 drag...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Oct 8, 2012 at 9:49 PM, Stephen John Smoogen smo...@gmail.com wrote: [...] There needs to be web design, web application coding, processes for getting applications in and approved, servers and disk space for this. Those are the hardest part and it is a blocker because if no one is around to keep a service going and growing it quickly becomes run by cargo cult. No one but Tim asked for a web based solution. We don't need an application submission process either, just present the applications we have in a more usable manner (i.e applications not packages). The code for a native application support is mostly there. People that want to maintain this code are also present. What is missing is generating the required metadata (which requires support from the infrastructure team). I'd like to see a concrete plan for generating that metadata, and sign off from the folks who know our current metadata generation process. That would be: rel-eng folks, bodhi maintainers, yum and rpm developers. Once everyone has reached a consensus on the plan, we would need folks willing to work on/maintain the needed changes. Last time this came up, there was no good census on the metadata needed or how to generate it, IIRC. (Happy to be proven wrong) kevin signature.asc Description: PGP signature -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Any progress in Software Center in Fedora effort?
* Matthew Miller [08/10/2012 23:04] : Is there more? You'll need icons, licenses, ratings, reviews and a (much) more detailed description than the one in the .desktop file. Bonus points if you include screenshots as well. Emmanuel -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Any progress in Software Center in Fedora effort?
On Mon, Oct 8, 2012 at 11:09 PM, Stephen John Smoogen smo...@gmail.com wrote: On 8 October 2012 14:39, drago01 drag...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Oct 8, 2012 at 9:49 PM, Stephen John Smoogen smo...@gmail.com wrote: [...] There needs to be web design, web application coding, processes for getting applications in and approved, servers and disk space for this. Those are the hardest part and it is a blocker because if no one is around to keep a service going and growing it quickly becomes run by cargo cult. No one but Tim asked for a web based solution. We don't need an application submission process either, just present the applications we have in a more usable manner (i.e applications not packages). The code for a native application support is mostly there. People that want to maintain this code are also present. What is missing is generating the required metadata (which requires support from the infrastructure team). Dude.. ... metadata has to be served from something. I did not claim otherwise. It has to be updated from somewhere.. it has to have some sort of way to get to the client. Yes that's what I was taling about (create it at compose time). It gets to the client the same way the packages get to the client (downloaded from the mirrors via HTTP or FTP). That is a web application. No it isn't. The software has to be stored somewhere to be gotten from.. and that requires disk space, front end servers, and other infrastructure. This is not about a webportal just some files on the mirrors in addition to the existing metadata. And applications which go into a store need some way to be sorted and viewed by people outside of the application.. tada another web application. No this will be done using a native frontend ... did you even read the mail you are replying to? And yes there will need to be a submission process because the first time we end up serving someone who put Oracle DB or someone elses software in it.. we in infrastructure will know about it and be told to get rid of it immediately plus deal with whatever other legal issues involved. Or when MP3 or other Fedora forbidden items show up, we in infrastructure will have to deal with the cleanup there too. You entirely missed the point. So I will try again one more time the applications == rpms currently in the repo. There is no submission process other then the usual package review which we always had. So please take some time to read other peoples mails before replying and base your answers on that, thanks. -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Any progress in Software Center in Fedora effort?
On Mon, Oct 08, 2012 at 11:09:17PM +0200, Emmanuel Seyman wrote: Is there more? You'll need icons, licenses, ratings, reviews and a (much) more detailed description than the one in the .desktop file. Bonus points if you include screenshots as well. Oh; yes -- that's an Open Collaboration Server on the Freedesktop spec: http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Specifications/open-collaboration-services So there's that. -- Matthew Miller ☁☁☁ Fedora Cloud Architect ☁☁☁ mat...@fedoraproject.org -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Any progress in Software Center in Fedora effort?
On Mon, Oct 08, 2012 at 03:09:38PM -0600, Stephen John Smoogen wrote: Dude.. metadata has to be served from something. It has to be updated from somewhere.. it has to have some sort of way to get to the client. That is a web application. The software has to be stored somewhere to Well, looks like in the plan, at least _some_ of it is repo metadata. -- Matthew Miller ☁☁☁ Fedora Cloud Architect ☁☁☁ mat...@fedoraproject.org -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Any progress in Software Center in Fedora effort?
On 8 October 2012 15:09, Stephen John Smoogen smo...@gmail.com wrote: On 8 October 2012 14:39, drago01 drag...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Oct 8, 2012 at 9:49 PM, Stephen John Smoogen smo...@gmail.com wrote: [...] There needs to be web design, web application coding, processes for getting applications in and approved, servers and disk space for this. Those are the hardest part and it is a blocker because if no one is around to keep a service going and growing it quickly becomes run by cargo cult. No one but Tim asked for a web based solution. We don't need an application submission process either, just present the applications we have in a more usable manner (i.e applications not packages). The code for a native application support is mostly there. People that want to maintain this code are also present. What is missing is generating the required metadata (which requires support from the infrastructure team). Dude.. metadata has to be served from something. It has to be updated from somewhere.. it has to have some sort of way to get to the client. My unreserved apologies to drago and others. My tone was not constructive and very condescending. -- Stephen J Smoogen. Don't derail a useful feature for the 99% because you're not in it. Linus Torvalds Years ago my mother used to say to me,... Elwood, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. You may quote me. —James Stewart as Elwood P. Dowd -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Any progress in Software Center in Fedora effort?
On Mon, Oct 08, 2012 at 11:18:33PM +0200, drago01 wrote: That is a web application. No it isn't. The software has to be stored somewhere to be gotten from.. and that requires disk space, front end servers, and other infrastructure. This is not about a webportal just some files on the mirrors in addition to the existing metadata. This is why we need a clear plan, because right now everyone is talking about a different imagined thing. I *think* you're just talking about getting the appdata.xml metadata from desktop files into the mirrors: http://distributions.freedesktop.org/wiki/AppStream/Implementation#Mirror (I see also that I missed the icons tar.gz that needs to go alongside that.) But the whole Freedesktop plan has a whole bunch of other parts. Is that what we're talking about implementing in general? http://distributions.freedesktop.org/wiki/AppStream/Implementation Is this the best architecture for Fedora? Does it provide the user experience we want? If so (or if not, but we want to do something else instead), what does the non-abstract version of that diagram look like for our implementation? Who will do what parts, where will they run, and who will keep those parts running? -- Matthew Miller ☁☁☁ Fedora Cloud Architect ☁☁☁ mat...@fedoraproject.org -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Any progress in Software Center in Fedora effort?
On Mon, 8 Oct 2012 18:16:28 -0400 Matthew Miller mat...@fedoraproject.org wrote: On Mon, Oct 08, 2012 at 11:18:33PM +0200, drago01 wrote: That is a web application. No it isn't. The software has to be stored somewhere to be gotten from.. and that requires disk space, front end servers, and other infrastructure. This is not about a webportal just some files on the mirrors in addition to the existing metadata. This is why we need a clear plan, because right now everyone is talking about a different imagined thing. I *think* you're just talking about getting the appdata.xml metadata from desktop files into the mirrors: http://distributions.freedesktop.org/wiki/AppStream/Implementation#Mirror (I see also that I missed the icons tar.gz that needs to go alongside that.) The last time this came up, some folks wanted to put all the icons and app desktop file data into a package and ship it and install it by default. Others found this a bad idea and wanted to generate the data on the server side and serve it to folks. The folks wishing to push the package are stalled in legal (because shipping a package with all icons in it means that each icon is under the license of whatever package it came from, making the resulting rpm license... very silly). The folks who wanted to generate the data as far as I know didn't get to far toward doing so, AFAIK. So, yes, this would need a clear plan. ;) But the whole Freedesktop plan has a whole bunch of other parts. Is that what we're talking about implementing in general? http://distributions.freedesktop.org/wiki/AppStream/Implementation Is this the best architecture for Fedora? Does it provide the user experience we want? If so (or if not, but we want to do something else instead), what does the non-abstract version of that diagram look like for our implementation? Who will do what parts, where will they run, and who will keep those parts running? If we decide this is the way we want to go, any such work would need to use the Infrastructure Request for Resources process: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Request_For_Resources kevin signature.asc Description: PGP signature -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Any progress in Software Center in Fedora effort?
On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 5:19 PM, Jiri Eischmann eischm...@redhat.com wrote: Hi, the possibility of Software Center in Fedora has already been discussed several times, last time a few month ago. I read an article about a successful Google Summer of Code project [1] whose goal was to make Software Center a distribution independent program using PackageKit. Matthias even made an Ubuntu-independent infrastructure for AppStream (additional data about packages/apps). I wonder if there are still any efforts to get it to Fedora and what it would require from our infrastructure. If I understand it correctly, there are currently three options: 1) Software Center based on PackageKit by Matthias 2) Light Software Center - a new app based on PackageKit from the beginning 3) Apper already supports AppStream [2] I'm asking because I hear from many (not only) beginners that they would appreciate something like Ubuntu Software Center in Fedora. I guess it's one of the main reasons why many users rather go for Ubuntu than Fedora. Jiri [1] http://blog.tenstral.net/2012/08/gsoc-appstream-final-report.html [2] http://blog.tenstral.net/2012/08/appstream-for-apper.html -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel The ultimate software center is a web application, like Google playstore. All the rating and commenting and other info, need to be centrally maintained and it is not a good idea to try to distribute this kind of metadata. There shall just be a local installer to install the packages triggered by the web app. Another thing is what the users of Fedora and most other linux'es is not my old mother and most of these users, don't care about a big fancy software shop. So nobody is going to do this great amount of work it takes to make a great webstore, Ubuntu need it for the same ways as Apple, they want to earn some money. It is an illusion that if we just have a fancy webstore, every body will start using Fedora IMHO. It will be nice if more people uses Fedora, but it not the main target, the greatness of Fedora is not measured but how many user it have, compared to other Linuxes or other os'es. Tim -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Any progress in Software Center in Fedora effort?
On Sun, Oct 7, 2012 at 6:51 PM, tim.laurid...@gmail.com tim.laurid...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 5:19 PM, Jiri Eischmann eischm...@redhat.com wrote: Hi, the possibility of Software Center in Fedora has already been discussed several times, last time a few month ago. I read an article about a successful Google Summer of Code project [1] whose goal was to make Software Center a distribution independent program using PackageKit. Matthias even made an Ubuntu-independent infrastructure for AppStream (additional data about packages/apps). I wonder if there are still any efforts to get it to Fedora and what it would require from our infrastructure. If I understand it correctly, there are currently three options: 1) Software Center based on PackageKit by Matthias 2) Light Software Center - a new app based on PackageKit from the beginning 3) Apper already supports AppStream [2] I'm asking because I hear from many (not only) beginners that they would appreciate something like Ubuntu Software Center in Fedora. I guess it's one of the main reasons why many users rather go for Ubuntu than Fedora. Jiri [1] http://blog.tenstral.net/2012/08/gsoc-appstream-final-report.html [2] http://blog.tenstral.net/2012/08/appstream-for-apper.html -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel The ultimate software center is a web application, like Google playstore. The google play store is not only a website. All the rating and commenting and other info, need to be centrally maintained and it is not a good idea to try to distribute this kind of metadata. Why? There shall just be a local installer to install the packages triggered by the web app. We already have this. Another thing is what the users of Fedora and most other linux'es is not my old mother and most of these users, don't care about a big fancy software shop. Maybe maybe not. The point is that a fancy software shop would result into this old mother type of user consider to use fedora. A user ultimately don't care about packages but about applications. Other distritors are moving in this direction while we fall behind. We should lead here like we do in other areas. So nobody is going to do this great amount of work it takes to make a great webstore, Ubuntu need it for the same ways as Apple, they want to earn some money. Earning money is not the point, having a good user experience is. It is an illusion that if we just have a fancy webstore, every body will start using Fedora IMHO. Nobody said that. It will be nice if more people uses Fedora, but it not the main target, the greatness of Fedora is not measured but how many user it have, compared to other Linuxes or other os'es. Well without users (and growth) it will become irrelevant and thus it will become harder to achieve anything else. As for people working on this Richard tried and got blocked by the infrastructure people. (don't know the details though). -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Any progress in Software Center in Fedora effort?
The ultimate software center is a web application, like Google playstore. All the rating and commenting and other info, need to be centrally maintained and it is not a good idea to try to distribute this kind of metadata. There shall just be a local installer to install the packages triggered by the web app. Another thing is what the users of Fedora and most other linux'es is not my old mother and most of these users, don't care about a big fancy software shop. So nobody is going to do this great amount of work it takes to make a great webstore, Ubuntu need it for the same ways as Apple, they want to earn some money. It is an illusion that if we just have a fancy webstore, every body will start using Fedora IMHO. It will be nice if more people uses Fedora, but it not the main target, the greatness of Fedora is not measured but how many user it have, compared to other Linuxes or other os'es. Tim Amen -- *Antonio Trande Fedora Ambassador* *Fedora italian translation group* *Blogger **mail*: mailto:sagit...@fedoraproject.org sagit...@fedoraproject.org *Homepage*: http://www.fedora-os.org *Sip Address* : sip:sagitter AT ekiga.net *Jabber http://jabber.org/* :sagitter AT jabber.org *GPG Key: 19E6DF27* -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Any progress in Software Center in Fedora effort?
drago01 drag...@gmail.com wrote: A user ultimately don't care about packages but about applications. Other distritors are moving in this direction while we fall behind. We should lead here like we do in other areas. +1 I still haven't understand what it takes to get this started. Besides of course from having some people dedicating some time on that. Convincing infrastructure team is the first step? Does this need to get through FESCO first? -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Any progress in Software Center in Fedora effort?
Am 07.10.2012 19:55, schrieb drago01: Maybe maybe not. The point is that a fancy software shop would result into this old mother type of user consider to use fedora. A user ultimately don't care about packages but about applications. Other distritors are moving in this direction while we fall behind. We should lead here like we do in other areas. why do we need to lead everywehre for every price? It will be nice if more people uses Fedora, but it not the main target, the greatness of Fedora is not measured but how many user it have, compared to other Linuxes or other os'es. Well without users (and growth) it will become irrelevant and thus it will become harder to achieve anything else. nobody says without users but do we really need every noob as user? why have we different operating systems and distributions if all satisfies the same user-base for every price? there is also a need for a clean and straight forwarded linux without compromises only to fetch users better satisfied with OSX or windows signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Any progress in Software Center in Fedora effort?
* Nikos Roussos [07/10/2012 20:41] : I still haven't understand what it takes to get this started. Besides of course from having some people dedicating some time on that. Convincing infrastructure team is the first step? Does this need to get through FESCO first? You'll probably want to read the previous thread on the subject as well as the apropos bugs: http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/devel/2011-November/159951.html Anybody interested in this will need to talk to Infra, RelEng and Legal and ensure that they're all satisfied with the implementation. Emmanuel -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Any progress in Software Center in Fedora effort?
On 5 October 2012 16:19, Jiri Eischmann eischm...@redhat.com wrote: 1) Software Center based on PackageKit by Matthias 2) Light Software Center - a new app based on PackageKit from the beginning 3) Apper already supports AppStream [2] Basically, Fedora needs to ship Appstream metadata and then we can just include any one of the two existing projects. To that, we need someone who's got an interest in working with the infrastructure guys in Fedora. I tried, but failed. Richard. -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
