Re: remove-retired-packages feedback

[Kamil Paral]

On Thu, May 26, 2022 at 3:52 PM Miroslav Suchý  wrote:

> If you already upgraded to Fedora 36 - what is your feedback about
>
>
> https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/fedora/latest/release-notes/sysadmin/System_Utilities/#remove-retired-packages
>
> Did you run the command `remove-retired-packages`? Do you find it useful?
> Comments and ideas are welcome either here or at:
>

I found it very useful, thank you. I'd like to see support for --help and
also an execution mode that only prints the retired packages and doesn't
ask for a sudo password.
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Re: remove-retired-packages feedback

[Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek]

On Thu, May 26, 2022 at 03:52:06PM +0200, Miroslav Suchý wrote:
> If you already upgraded to Fedora 36 - what is your feedback about
> 
> https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/fedora/latest/release-notes/sysadmin/System_Utilities/#remove-retired-packages
> 
> Did you run the command `remove-retired-packages`? Do you find it useful? 
> Comments and ideas are welcome either here or at:
> 
> https://github.com/xsuchy/fedora-upgrade/issues
> 
> Just be sure that you have latest version, i.e., remove-retired-packages-36.3.

The tool worked fine as long as you answer "yes".
But when I pressed "n" at the dnf prompt, the tool aborted. I think it should
just continue instead.

I had a bunch of packages, some with suffixes like .fc28 ;)
The cycle of separate dnf runs was rather slow… Various folks comments
that the separate questions are useful. But maybe it'd be possible to gather
all the "yes"es and then call dnf once?

Zbyszek
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Re: remove-retired-packages feedback

[stan via devel]

On Thu, 26 May 2022 15:52:06 +0200
Miroslav Suchý  wrote:

> If you already upgraded to Fedora 36 - what is your feedback about
> 
> https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/fedora/latest/release-notes/sysadmin/System_Utilities/#remove-retired-packages
> 
> Did you run the command `remove-retired-packages`? Do you find it
> useful? Comments and ideas are welcome either here or at:
> 
> https://github.com/xsuchy/fedora-upgrade/issues
> 
> Just be sure that you have latest version, i.e.,
> remove-retired-packages-36.3.

Thanks for creating this, a nice tool.  I run rawhide, and it found no
retired packages for f36 or f37.  I think that would be expected by
default.  I agree that deciding on removal of each package individually
is the right choice.
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Re: remove-retired-packages feedback

[Gary Buhrmaster]

On Thu, May 26, 2022 at 1:52 PM Miroslav Suchý  wrote:
>
> If you already upgraded to Fedora 36 - what is your feedback about
>
> https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/fedora/latest/release-notes/sysadmin/System_Utilities/#remove-retired-packages
>
> Did you run the command `remove-retired-packages`? Do you find it useful? 
> Comments and ideas are welcome either here or at:

I used to (irregularly) manually go
through my systems that have been
upgraded through many versions to
remove old packages.  I never
bothered to script it since I always
thought I would be doing it so rarely
since I believed the next upgrade I
would install the system from scratch,
and which I said to myself every time
I performed that manual process.

Having someone else do that
scripting is welcome.  Thanks.
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Re: remove-retired-packages feedback

[Barry Scott]

> On 26 May 2022, at 14:52, Miroslav Suchý  wrote:
> 
> If you already upgraded to Fedora 36 - what is your feedback about
> 
> https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/fedora/latest/release-notes/sysadmin/System_Utilities/#remove-retired-packages
>  
> 
> Did you run the command `remove-retired-packages`? Do you find it useful? 
> Comments and ideas are welcome either here or at:
> 
> https://github.com/xsuchy/fedora-upgrade/issues 
> 
> Just be sure that you have latest version, i.e., remove-retired-packages-36.3.
> 
Useful command!

It found a number of packages to remove.

One was a package that I built to locally and installed from the command line, 
which it
correctly identified as not in F36.

I like that it prompts for each package on its own. This meant that I could 
remove the
3 that I do not need to keep but leave the one that I do need.

Barry



> Miroslav
> 
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Re: remove-retired-packages feedback

[Kevin P. Fleming]

On 5/26/22 09:52, Miroslav Suchý wrote:


If you already upgraded to Fedora 36 - what is your feedback about

https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/fedora/latest/release-notes/sysadmin/System_Utilities/#remove-retired-packages

Did you run the command `remove-retired-packages`? Do you find it 
useful? Comments and ideas are welcome either here or at:


https://github.com/xsuchy/fedora-upgrade/issues

Just be sure that you have latest version, i.e., 
remove-retired-packages-36.3.


Well, thanks for posting this: I hadn't been aware of this tool at all 
:-) I just installed it and ran it, and it found just two Intel wireless 
firmware packages to remove.


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Red Hat US/Eastern Time Zone
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Re: remove-retired-packages

[Miroslav Suchý]

Dne 24. 09. 21 v 10:50 Miro Hrončok napsal(a):

Should it query for removed packages instead of components?

It seem that when python-foo is retired, the script will attempt to remove python-foo instead of python3-foo (and 
python3-foo-docs etc.). 


This is fixed now. And build with the fix is in the Copr repository (link is in 
first mail in this thread).

Miroslav
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Re: remove-retired-packages

[Miroslav Suchý]

Dne 24. 09. 21 v 13:55 Miro Hrončok napsal(a):
I think w are over-engineering a workaround for something that could be part of system-upgrade. See my proposal in 
https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org/message/DQZOCSVPW4R4MZR2QYBQTO6ZTTU3RCKW/ 
that got 0 replies:



Generally, I think we should instead strive to have configurable bahavior of 
dnf system-upgrade:
SNIP
Such solution obviously requires somebody to design it, code it, test it, support it and maintain it. I cannot speak 
for the software management team, but I guess they would have reasons not to do that (such as capacity reasons). 


DNF team has its priority list already packed. I think it make sanse to do this designing phase in separate tool. And 
only when it becomes obvious what we want and how to do it, only then merge it to core DNF code.


Miroslav
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Re: remove-retired-packages

[Miroslav Suchý]

Dne 24. 09. 21 v 11:59 Vitaly Zaitsev via devel napsal(a):
sudo dnf remove $(dnf -C list extras | cut -d ' ' -f -1 | tail -n +3) 


This will remove packages which are not in current repositories.

On my workstation, this will suggests to remove webex, which I installed manually as an rpm. And I definitelly want to 
keep it.


My current implementation is more conversative and remove only packages which were presented at some point in Fedora and 
now are retired.


It is so conservative, that it even leave behind the packages from N-2 version.

Miroslav
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Re: remove-retired-packages

[Miro Hrončok]

On 24. 09. 21 12:31, Miroslav Suchý wrote:

But still I'd rather have this as part of distribution - a package
similar to fedora-obsolete-packages which would allow me to remove all
retired packages simply by installing it.
Oh there is already this proposal -
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Fedora-Retired-Packages


And in the followup discussion this was rejected as a bad idea.

Example: one of the retired packages is "nspr" but if you try to remove it, 
then half of your system is gone. :)


Therefore it is a good idea to allow user to "cherry-pick" packages which 
should be kept on machine despite being retired.


I think w are over-engineering a workaround for something that could be part of 
system-upgrade. See my proposal in 
https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org/message/DQZOCSVPW4R4MZR2QYBQTO6ZTTU3RCKW/ 
that got 0 replies:


Generally, I think we should instead strive to have configurable bahavior of dnf 
system-upgrade:


  option 1) broken deps block upgrades, user go figure (status quo)
  option 2) broken deps of packages not part of distupgrade repository behave 
like --allowerasing
  option 3) all packages not part of distupgrade repository are removed on 
distro boundary upgrade

  option 4) --allowerasing (already possible)

With alterations for 2/3:

  suboption a) this affects all packages
  suboption b) this affects only packages installed from "system repos"

(Suboption b) can be achieved trough a .repo file configuration option.)

Then we can have a discussion about the best default for Fedora.

Such solution obviously requires somebody to design it, code it, test it, 
support it and maintain it. I cannot speak for the software management team, but 
I guess they would have reasons not to do that (such as capacity reasons).




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Re: remove-retired-packages

[Miroslav Suchý]

Dne 24. 09. 21 v 11:27 Marek Blaha napsal(a):

It seem that when python-foo is retired, the script will attempt to remove
python-foo instead of python3-foo (and python3-foo-docs etc.).


Oh. Silly me. I will fix this.


Another idea: The script currently needs fedora-packager (for the pkgname
command). If you use --qf=%{NAME} in the repoquery, it won't.

Yes, I've already created a small PR on those dependencies (another is
using `dnf repoquery` instead of `repoquery` that drops depencendy on
dnf-utils package).

Thank you.

But still I'd rather have this as part of distribution - a package
similar to fedora-obsolete-packages which would allow me to remove all
retired packages simply by installing it.
Oh there is already this proposal -
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Fedora-Retired-Packages


And in the followup discussion this was rejected as a bad idea.

Example: one of the retired packages is "nspr" but if you try to remove it, 
then half of your system is gone. :)

Therefore it is a good idea to allow user to "cherry-pick" packages which 
should be kept on machine despite being retired.

Miroslav
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Re: remove-retired-packages

[Vitaly Zaitsev via devel]

On 24/09/2021 06:44, Miroslav Suchý wrote:

I created small script `remove-retired-packages`. You can try it using:


Much more simple script:

sudo dnf remove $(dnf -C list extras | cut -d ' ' -f -1 | tail -n +3)

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Re: remove-retired-packages

[Marek Blaha]

On Fri, Sep 24, 2021 at 10:58 AM Miro Hrončok  wrote:
> > Should it query for removed packages instead of components?
> >
> > It seem that when python-foo is retired, the script will attempt to remove
> > python-foo instead of python3-foo (and python3-foo-docs etc.).
> >
> > PS That's why I mentioned both options when answering your "how to find out
> > what has been retired" question. The solution is to stop using the source 
> > repos
> > (and src arch).
>
> Another idea: The script currently needs fedora-packager (for the pkgname
> command). If you use --qf=%{NAME} in the repoquery, it won't.

Yes, I've already created a small PR on those dependencies (another is
using `dnf repoquery` instead of `repoquery` that drops depencendy on
dnf-utils package).
And I agree that the script should use packages instead of source
packages - currently the results are really wild - a lot of packages
is suggested for removal without being actually retired.

But still I'd rather have this as part of distribution - a package
similar to fedora-obsolete-packages which would allow me to remove all
retired packages simply by installing it.
Oh there is already this proposal -
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Fedora-Retired-Packages

Marek Blaha
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Re: remove-retired-packages

[Miro Hrončok]

On 24. 09. 21 10:50, Miro Hrončok wrote:

On 24. 09. 21 6:44, Miroslav Suchý wrote:

Hi.

I created small script `remove-retired-packages`. You can try it using:

$ sudo dnf copr enable msuchy/remove-retired-packages

$ remove-retired-packages

This script removes packages retired between Fedora N and Fedora N-1. You can 
run it with parameter:


$ remove-retired-packages  30

And it will remove all packages retired between Fedora N and Fedora 30.

It removes packages one-by-one. And you have the option to skip specific 
package.


The source is here:

https://github.com/xsuchy/fedora-upgrade/blob/main/remove-retired-packages


Should it query for removed packages instead of components?

It seem that when python-foo is retired, the script will attempt to remove 
python-foo instead of python3-foo (and python3-foo-docs etc.).


PS That's why I mentioned both options when answering your "how to find out 
what has been retired" question. The solution is to stop using the source repos 
(and src arch).


Another idea: The script currently needs fedora-packager (for the pkgname 
command). If you use --qf=%{NAME} in the repoquery, it won't.


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Re: remove-retired-packages

[Miro Hrončok]

On 24. 09. 21 6:44, Miroslav Suchý wrote:

Hi.

I created small script `remove-retired-packages`. You can try it using:

$ sudo dnf copr enable msuchy/remove-retired-packages

$ remove-retired-packages

This script removes packages retired between Fedora N and Fedora N-1. You can 
run it with parameter:


$ remove-retired-packages  30

And it will remove all packages retired between Fedora N and Fedora 30.

It removes packages one-by-one. And you have the option to skip specific 
package.

The source is here:

https://github.com/xsuchy/fedora-upgrade/blob/main/remove-retired-packages


Should it query for removed packages instead of components?

It seem that when python-foo is retired, the script will attempt to remove 
python-foo instead of python3-foo (and python3-foo-docs etc.).


PS That's why I mentioned both options when answering your "how to find out 
what has been retired" question. The solution is to stop using the source repos 
(and src arch).


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Re: Remove retired packages

[Michael Schwendt]

On Thu, 24 Jan 2013 13:13:09 +0100, Vít Ondruch wrote:

 Dne 23.1.2013 21:04, Bruno Wolff III napsal(a):
  One possiblity here would be to create a special package that 
  obsoletes all of the dropped packages from the last release (or two 
  depending on how far back you want to yum update from).
 
 Actually, this is cool idea IMO. Why this package does not exist yet? 
 Rel-engs has to have list of blocked packages already, so it should be 
 easy to convert it into .spec.

It has been suggested, discussed and rejected many years ago. Here's
one thread from 2007,

  https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-extras-list/2007-March/msg00089.html

and I remember it has been a topic before for early FESCO, but probably
on IRC or the closed list. As one can see, we referred to it with the
term garbage collection for packages. That's why I managed to find this
thread, too.

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Re: Remove retired packages

[Bruno Wolff III]

On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 14:18:25 +0100,
  Michael Schwendt mschwe...@gmail.com wrote:

On Thu, 24 Jan 2013 13:13:09 +0100, Vít Ondruch wrote:

It has been suggested, discussed and rejected many years ago. Here's
one thread from 2007,

 https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-extras-list/2007-March/msg00089.html

and I remember it has been a topic before for early FESCO, but probably
on IRC or the closed list. As one can see, we referred to it with the
term garbage collection for packages. That's why I managed to find this
thread, too.


The above thread was sort of neutral. I think the downsides of making it 
harder to keep some dropped packages is out weighed by making yum upgrades 
work smoother.

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Re: Remove retired packages

[Matthew Miller]

On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 02:18:25PM +0100, Michael Schwendt wrote:
  Actually, this is cool idea IMO. Why this package does not exist yet? 
  Rel-engs has to have list of blocked packages already, so it should be 
  easy to convert it into .spec.
 It has been suggested, discussed and rejected many years ago. Here's
 one thread from 2007,
   https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-extras-list/2007-March/msg00089.html

Nice, because I was just going to say

https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-extras-list/2007-March/msg00107.html


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Re: Remove retired packages

[Vít Ondruch]

Dne 24.1.2013 14:18, Michael Schwendt napsal(a):

On Thu, 24 Jan 2013 13:13:09 +0100, Vít Ondruch wrote:


Dne 23.1.2013 21:04, Bruno Wolff III napsal(a):

One possiblity here would be to create a special package that
obsoletes all of the dropped packages from the last release (or two
depending on how far back you want to yum update from).

Actually, this is cool idea IMO. Why this package does not exist yet?
Rel-engs has to have list of blocked packages already, so it should be
easy to convert it into .spec.

It has been suggested, discussed and rejected many years ago. Here's
one thread from 2007,

   https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-extras-list/2007-March/msg00089.html

and I remember it has been a topic before for early FESCO, but probably
on IRC or the closed list. As one can see, we referred to it with the
term garbage collection for packages. That's why I managed to find this
thread, too.



Thank you for pointing it out. Was not aware of it.


Vít

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Re: Remove retired packages

[Michael scherer]

On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 01:13:09PM +0100, Vít Ondruch wrote:
 Dne 23.1.2013 21:04, Bruno Wolff III napsal(a):
 One possiblity here would be to create a special package that
 obsoletes all of the dropped packages from the last release (or
 two depending on how far back you want to yum update from).
 
 Actually, this is cool idea IMO. Why this package does not exist
 yet? Rel-engs has to have list of blocked packages already, so it
 should be easy to convert it into .spec.

For the record, mageia does it, but not everybody is ok with that.

So you could talk to them to see if they have some interesting feedback on the 
topic.

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Michael Scherer
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