Re: Wiki page correction: GRUB2
On Thu, May 30, 2019 at 10:40 AM Adam Williamson wrote: > > On Thu, 2019-05-30 at 10:29 -0600, Chris Murphy wrote: > > On Thu, May 30, 2019 at 9:26 AM Adam Williamson > > wrote: > > > > My suggested change for this section: > > > > > > > > Install the bootloader files > > > > If you don't already have the relevant packages installed, do for > > > > Fedora 22 and later versions with DNF or with YUM for older Fedora > > > > releases: > > > > > > > > - dnf install grub2-efi shim > > > > + dnf install grub2-efi-ia32 grub2-efi-x64 > > > > - yum install grub2-efi shim > > > > > > Uh. We *do* have users who don't use x86_64 arch... > > > > Right. And the original command works there. > > But...your suggestion is to remove both of the original commands...you > put '-' next to both those lines. Yes, the suggestion is flawed. -- Chris Murphy ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://getfedora.org/code-of-conduct.html List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: Wiki page correction: GRUB2
On Thu, May 30, 2019 at 10:39 AM Adam Williamson wrote: > On Thu, 2019-05-30 at 10:29 -0600, Chris Murphy wrote: > > Installing: > > grub2-efi-ia32 > > shim-x64 > > > > That is obviously wrong, it could never work. On x86_64 the original > > command should install 32-bit and 64-bit shim and GRUB EFI binaries. > > Well, it's sort of a problem, because both the packages provide 'grub2- > efi' and dnf's behaviour in this case is to pick one, not install both. How does netinstall handle this? I'm guessing it must be true anaconda checks sysfs for firmware bitness, and is explicitly installing only the correct shim and grub2 EFI packages for that bitness. > The only way to get both installed when you call 'dnf install grub2- > efi' would be to have some sort of dependency relationship between > them, I guess. Sounds good. But, what is the use case we're trying to solve with this wiki? The case where the user intentionally removed GRUB, perhaps in favor of some other bootloader, changed their mind, and they now want to install GRUB again? Why is it missing in the first place? I don't really care about that use case, and would demote it to the end of the wiki. And really, those users don't need install instructions. What they need is a decoder ring so they know the minimum GRUB packages by name they need to install per arch and firmware type, and maybe firmware bitness. They just need a chart. The use case I care about, are those who have had GRUB inadvertently stepped on through no (or only a little) fault of their own. This helps folks on #fedora and users@ who keep having to repeat themselves for this use case, where they could just say "here read this simple wiki". When the wiki is not concise, and instead is a giant text wall of idiosyncratic workarounds for obscure problems almost no one else is bound to have, it isn't nearly as useful. Looking at the GRUB2 wiki, I'd like to chop out 3/4ths of it. Much of it is obsolete, without even considering Fedora 30's bootloaderspec changes. -- Chris Murphy ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://getfedora.org/code-of-conduct.html List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: Wiki page correction: GRUB2
On Thu, 2019-05-30 at 10:29 -0600, Chris Murphy wrote: > On Thu, May 30, 2019 at 9:26 AM Adam Williamson > wrote: > > > My suggested change for this section: > > > > > > Install the bootloader files > > > If you don't already have the relevant packages installed, do for > > > Fedora 22 and later versions with DNF or with YUM for older Fedora > > > releases: > > > > > > - dnf install grub2-efi shim > > > + dnf install grub2-efi-ia32 grub2-efi-x64 > > > - yum install grub2-efi shim > > > > Uh. We *do* have users who don't use x86_64 arch... > > Right. And the original command works there. But...your suggestion is to remove both of the original commands...you put '-' next to both those lines. -- Adam Williamson Fedora QA Community Monkey IRC: adamw | Twitter: AdamW_Fedora | XMPP: adamw AT happyassassin . net http://www.happyassassin.net ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://getfedora.org/code-of-conduct.html List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: Wiki page correction: GRUB2
On Thu, 2019-05-30 at 10:29 -0600, Chris Murphy wrote: > On Thu, May 30, 2019 at 9:26 AM Adam Williamson > wrote: > > > My suggested change for this section: > > > > > > Install the bootloader files > > > If you don't already have the relevant packages installed, do for > > > Fedora 22 and later versions with DNF or with YUM for older Fedora > > > releases: > > > > > > - dnf install grub2-efi shim > > > + dnf install grub2-efi-ia32 grub2-efi-x64 > > > - yum install grub2-efi shim > > > > Uh. We *do* have users who don't use x86_64 arch... > > Right. And the original command works there. > > I think we have a packaging problem on x86_64. On a cleanly installed > Fedora 31 Workstation, I have > > shim-x64-15-8.x86_64 > shim-ia32-15-8.x86_64 > grub2-pc-2.02-84.fc31.x86_64 > grub2-efi-ia32-cdboot-2.02-84.fc31.x86_64 > grub2-tools-extra-2.02-84.fc31.x86_64 > grub2-tools-efi-2.02-84.fc31.x86_64 > grub2-tools-minimal-2.02-84.fc31.x86_64 > grub2-pc-modules-2.02-84.fc31.noarch > grub2-tools-2.02-84.fc31.x86_64 > grub2-efi-x64-2.02-84.fc31.x86_64 > grub2-common-2.02-84.fc31.noarch > grub2-efi-x64-cdboot-2.02-84.fc31.x86_64 > grub2-efi-ia32-2.02-84.fc31.x86_64 > > If I remove: > shim-x64-15-8.x86_64 > shim-ia32-15-8.x86_64 > grub2-efi-x64-2.02-84.fc31.x86_64 > grub2-efi-x64-cdboot-2.02-84.fc31.x86_64 > grub2-efi-ia32-2.02-84.fc31.x86_64 > grub2-efi-ia32-cdboot-2.02-84.fc31.x86_64 > > And then: > # dnf install grub2-efi shim > > I get the following (edited for legibility) > > Installing: > grub2-efi-ia32 > shim-x64 > > That is obviously wrong, it could never work. On x86_64 the original > command should install 32-bit and 64-bit shim and GRUB EFI binaries. Well, it's sort of a problem, because both the packages provide 'grub2- efi' and dnf's behaviour in this case is to pick one, not install both. The only way to get both installed when you call 'dnf install grub2- efi' would be to have some sort of dependency relationship between them, I guess. -- Adam Williamson Fedora QA Community Monkey IRC: adamw | Twitter: AdamW_Fedora | XMPP: adamw AT happyassassin . net http://www.happyassassin.net ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://getfedora.org/code-of-conduct.html List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: Wiki page correction: GRUB2
On Thu, May 30, 2019 at 9:26 AM Adam Williamson wrote: > > My suggested change for this section: > > > > Install the bootloader files > > If you don't already have the relevant packages installed, do for > > Fedora 22 and later versions with DNF or with YUM for older Fedora > > releases: > > > > - dnf install grub2-efi shim > > + dnf install grub2-efi-ia32 grub2-efi-x64 > > - yum install grub2-efi shim > > Uh. We *do* have users who don't use x86_64 arch... Right. And the original command works there. I think we have a packaging problem on x86_64. On a cleanly installed Fedora 31 Workstation, I have shim-x64-15-8.x86_64 shim-ia32-15-8.x86_64 grub2-pc-2.02-84.fc31.x86_64 grub2-efi-ia32-cdboot-2.02-84.fc31.x86_64 grub2-tools-extra-2.02-84.fc31.x86_64 grub2-tools-efi-2.02-84.fc31.x86_64 grub2-tools-minimal-2.02-84.fc31.x86_64 grub2-pc-modules-2.02-84.fc31.noarch grub2-tools-2.02-84.fc31.x86_64 grub2-efi-x64-2.02-84.fc31.x86_64 grub2-common-2.02-84.fc31.noarch grub2-efi-x64-cdboot-2.02-84.fc31.x86_64 grub2-efi-ia32-2.02-84.fc31.x86_64 If I remove: shim-x64-15-8.x86_64 shim-ia32-15-8.x86_64 grub2-efi-x64-2.02-84.fc31.x86_64 grub2-efi-x64-cdboot-2.02-84.fc31.x86_64 grub2-efi-ia32-2.02-84.fc31.x86_64 grub2-efi-ia32-cdboot-2.02-84.fc31.x86_64 And then: # dnf install grub2-efi shim I get the following (edited for legibility) Installing: grub2-efi-ia32 shim-x64 That is obviously wrong, it could never work. On x86_64 the original command should install 32-bit and 64-bit shim and GRUB EFI binaries. -- Chris Murphy ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://getfedora.org/code-of-conduct.html List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: Wiki page correction: GRUB2
On Wed, 2019-05-29 at 17:43 -0600, Chris Murphy wrote: > On Wed, May 29, 2019 at 5:52 AM Michal Schorm wrote: > > Hello, > > > > I'd like to propose tiny correction for the Fedora wiki page about GRUB2 > > [1]. > > > > However I'm not confident enought to edit it prior to any discussions, > > so that's why I'm writing here. > > > > In the chapter "Updating GRUB 2 configuration on UEFI systems" > > In the section "Install the bootloader files" > > I believe, there should be an information added, that the 'grub2-efi' > > package *must* match your architecture. So e.g. for x86_64, you want > > the 'grub2-efi-x64' package. > > No. You can have x86_64 CPU but the firmware is 32-bit, hence ia32 > which is why there is: > > grub2-efi-ia32-1:2.02-81.fc30.x86_64.rpm > > The user space will still be 64-bit but the EFI binaries will be > 32-bit for the rare firmware floating out there that require it. There > isn't a problem with 32-bit and 64-bit EFI binaries being located on > the same EFI system volume in EFI/fedora, the firmware figures it out > (I think by filenaming convention which is mentioned in the UEFI > spec). > > My suggested change for this section: > > Install the bootloader files > If you don't already have the relevant packages installed, do for > Fedora 22 and later versions with DNF or with YUM for older Fedora > releases: > > - dnf install grub2-efi shim > + dnf install grub2-efi-ia32 grub2-efi-x64 > - yum install grub2-efi shim Uh. We *do* have users who don't use x86_64 arch... -- Adam Williamson Fedora QA Community Monkey IRC: adamw | Twitter: AdamW_Fedora | XMPP: adamw AT happyassassin . net http://www.happyassassin.net ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://getfedora.org/code-of-conduct.html List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: Wiki page correction: GRUB2
On Wed, May 29, 2019 at 5:52 AM Michal Schorm wrote: > > Hello, > > I'd like to propose tiny correction for the Fedora wiki page about GRUB2 [1]. > > However I'm not confident enought to edit it prior to any discussions, > so that's why I'm writing here. > > In the chapter "Updating GRUB 2 configuration on UEFI systems" > In the section "Install the bootloader files" > I believe, there should be an information added, that the 'grub2-efi' > package *must* match your architecture. So e.g. for x86_64, you want > the 'grub2-efi-x64' package. No. You can have x86_64 CPU but the firmware is 32-bit, hence ia32 which is why there is: grub2-efi-ia32-1:2.02-81.fc30.x86_64.rpm The user space will still be 64-bit but the EFI binaries will be 32-bit for the rare firmware floating out there that require it. There isn't a problem with 32-bit and 64-bit EFI binaries being located on the same EFI system volume in EFI/fedora, the firmware figures it out (I think by filenaming convention which is mentioned in the UEFI spec). My suggested change for this section: Install the bootloader files If you don't already have the relevant packages installed, do for Fedora 22 and later versions with DNF or with YUM for older Fedora releases: - dnf install grub2-efi shim + dnf install grub2-efi-ia32 grub2-efi-x64 - yum install grub2-efi shim If you do, then try: dnf reinstall grub2-efi shim - yum reinstall grub2-efi shim --- I think it's a negative for user to have to read a wall of text explaining any aspect of architecture to them. It's bad enough we have to explain BIOS vs UEFI. Just tell them to install the bootloader for both, which is what a default Workstation installation does anyway. And then remove deprecated yum command. For reinstall, the existing command will replace both packages and their respective EFI binaries. > but I believe I only need the 'grub2-efi-x64.x86_64'. > Given that, maybe the anaconda installation should be checked to not > pull uneeded packages? I'm pretty sure UEFI bitness is exposed by /sys/firmware/efi/fw_platform_size but I don't know if anaconda uses it. -- Chris Murphy ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://getfedora.org/code-of-conduct.html List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: Wiki page correction: GRUB2
On Wed, 2019-05-29 at 13:50 +0200, Michal Schorm wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I'd like to propose tiny correction for the Fedora wiki page about GRUB2 [1].
>
> However I'm not confident enought to edit it prior to any discussions,
> so that's why I'm writing here.
>
> In the chapter "Updating GRUB 2 configuration on UEFI systems"
> In the section "Install the bootloader files"
> I believe, there should be an information added, that the 'grub2-efi'
> package *must* match your architecture. So e.g. for x86_64, you want
> the 'grub2-efi-x64' package.
>
> By default the 'dnf install grub2-efi' will find 'grub2-efi-ia32'
> package which doesn't contain the files you need for boot on x86_64
> system, nor pulls the correct package as a dependency.
That sounds correct, yes. For background, IIRC this split was done to
allow the special case of Baytrail-like systems (which have 64-bit CPUs
and on which you can install an x86_64 OS, but whose firmwares are 32-
bit and so require a 32-bit EFI bootloader) to work. I *think* on such
systems both grub2-efi-x64 and grub2-efi-ia32 is needed, but IMBW.
> Also, on once of my old F28 Cinnamon system, I can see, that there are
> packages:
> $ dnf list installed | grep grub2-efi | awk '{ print $1 }'
> grub2-efi-ia32.x86_64
> grub2-efi-ia32-cdboot.x86_64
> grub2-efi-x64.x86_64
> grub2-efi-x64-cdboot.x86_64
>
> but I believe I only need the 'grub2-efi-x64.x86_64'.
> Given that, maybe the anaconda installation should be checked to not
> pull uneeded packages?
Current anaconda is designed to do this - it has a check to only
install grub2-efi-ia32 on systems with a 32-bit firmware. I'm not sure
if this wasn't in place when you installed, or if it went wrong
somehow...
--
Adam Williamson
Fedora QA Community Monkey
IRC: adamw | Twitter: AdamW_Fedora | XMPP: adamw AT happyassassin . net
http://www.happyassassin.net
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Re: Wiki page correction: GRUB2
> Be bold and just update the page... it's a wiki, so it keeps a change > history, and if someone else has a problem with what you wrote, they can > either update it or roll back the changes. You shouldn't ever feel like you > have to ask permission or have the details 100% correct before updating > something on the wiki. I'm not looking for a permission. I'm looking for a sanity check. I personaly take care of several wiki pages. If that would be a subject I understand well and I'm confident in, I'd edit right away. I also take it as a chance, that someone may spot it's not right and uncover some packaging issue by it. The fact It's a wiki IMHO doesn't imply anyone *should* edit it without being confident about it. -- Michal Schorm Software Engineer Core Services - Databases Team Red Hat -- On Wed, May 29, 2019 at 8:51 PM Jared K. Smith wrote: > > On Wed, May 29, 2019 at 8:01 AM Michal Schorm wrote: >> >> However I'm not confident enought to edit it prior to any discussions, >> so that's why I'm writing here. > > > Be bold and just update the page... it's a wiki, so it keeps a change > history, and if someone else has a problem with what you wrote, they can > either update it or roll back the changes. You shouldn't ever feel like you > have to ask permission or have the details 100% correct before updating > something on the wiki. > > -- > Jared Smith > ___ > devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org > To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org > Fedora Code of Conduct: https://getfedora.org/code-of-conduct.html > List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines > List Archives: > https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://getfedora.org/code-of-conduct.html List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: Wiki page correction: GRUB2
On Wed, May 29, 2019 at 8:01 AM Michal Schorm wrote: > However I'm not confident enought to edit it prior to any discussions, > so that's why I'm writing here. > Be bold and just update the page... it's a wiki, so it keeps a change history, and if someone else has a problem with what you wrote, they can either update it or roll back the changes. You shouldn't ever feel like you have to ask permission or have the details 100% correct before updating something on the wiki. -- Jared Smith ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://getfedora.org/code-of-conduct.html List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: Wiki page correction: GRUB2
Also, it's IMHO worth mentioning, a package 'grub2-pc-modules' is
needed on BIOS systems in order to 'grub2-install' utility to work
--
Michal Schorm
Software Engineer
Core Services - Databases Team
Red Hat
--
On Wed, May 29, 2019 at 1:50 PM Michal Schorm wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> I'd like to propose tiny correction for the Fedora wiki page about GRUB2 [1].
>
> However I'm not confident enought to edit it prior to any discussions,
> so that's why I'm writing here.
>
> In the chapter "Updating GRUB 2 configuration on UEFI systems"
> In the section "Install the bootloader files"
> I believe, there should be an information added, that the 'grub2-efi'
> package *must* match your architecture. So e.g. for x86_64, you want
> the 'grub2-efi-x64' package.
>
> By default the 'dnf install grub2-efi' will find 'grub2-efi-ia32'
> package which doesn't contain the files you need for boot on x86_64
> system, nor pulls the correct package as a dependency.
>
> Also, on once of my old F28 Cinnamon system, I can see, that there are
> packages:
> $ dnf list installed | grep grub2-efi | awk '{ print $1 }'
> grub2-efi-ia32.x86_64
> grub2-efi-ia32-cdboot.x86_64
> grub2-efi-x64.x86_64
> grub2-efi-x64-cdboot.x86_64
>
> but I believe I only need the 'grub2-efi-x64.x86_64'.
> Given that, maybe the anaconda installation should be checked to not
> pull uneeded packages?
>
> Correct me, if I'm wrong, thanks.
>
>
>
> [1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/GRUB_2
>
> --
>
> Michal Schorm
> Software Engineer
> Core Services - Databases Team
> Red Hat
>
> --
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