Re: mysql is now a critpath package? WTF?
On Thu, 05 Jan 2012 14:38:57 -0600 Rex Dieter rdie...@math.unl.edu wrote: Stijn Hoop wrote: Well it also took them two years to consider 'NFS mounted home' a valid use case, during which the whole 'you really need MySQL!!!' was broken for our site. It's easy to switch (maybe I should blog about it... ) per user: kcmshell4 akonadi per machine/site: create/edit /etc/xdg/akonadi/akonadiserverrc to contain: [%General] Driver=QSQLITE3 -- rex Thank you, that is good to know. In the end we worked around it by moving the MySQL socket to a local directory. This was not perfect because accidentally starting KMail on a second machine, while logged in on the first, caused havoc in fun ways, but it did get rid of the occasional I've lost my mail NFS+MySQL fun. --Stijn -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: mysql is now a critpath package? WTF?
2012-01-05 20:20 keltezéssel, Kevin Kofler írta: Rex Dieter wrote: I'm of a mind to revisit this (again). NO, not again!!! Can we please stop this nonsense? Upstream defaults to MySQL for a reason, and strongly recommends NOT using the SQLite backend by default. SQLite doesn't support concurrency (i.e. any Akonadi operation blocks all others) and is slower. Then switch to using PostgreSQL as the database backend. It's secure by default (e.g. only allows localhost connections) and has better concurrency than MySQL. It's also Tom Lane's territory and I like it better too. :-) I think overriding the upstream default is a very bad idea in this case, and I'm surprised you are pushing for it that much, you're otherwise always the upstream, upstream, upstream guy. Kevin Kofler -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: mysql is now a critpath package? WTF?
Zoltan Boszormenyi wrote: Then switch to using PostgreSQL as the database backend. It's secure by default (e.g. only allows localhost connections) and has better concurrency than MySQL. It's also Tom Lane's territory and I like it better too. :-) PostgreSQL requires manual intervention at each upgrade (dump BEFORE you upgrade, restore afterwards) and is not automatically integrated into Akonadi the way MySQL is (you have to set up a server manually and configure Akonadi for it). And Akonadi automatically configures its MySQL instances to only allow local connections from the specific user. (It sets it up to only listen on a Unix socket with permissions only for the user owning the instance.) Kevin Kofler -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: mysql is now a critpath package? WTF?
Kevin Kofler wrote: PostgreSQL requires manual intervention at each upgrade (dump BEFORE you upgrade, restore afterwards) As of PostgreSQL 9.0, there is an upgrade utility[1] that doesn't require a dump/restore. I have used it to go from 8.4 to 9.0 and now 9.0 to 9.1 without an issue. [1] http://www.postgresql.org/docs/9.1/static/pgupgrade.html -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: mysql is now a critpath package? WTF?
Michael Cronenworth m...@cchtml.com writes: Kevin Kofler wrote: PostgreSQL requires manual intervention at each upgrade (dump BEFORE you upgrade, restore afterwards) As of PostgreSQL 9.0, there is an upgrade utility[1] that doesn't require a dump/restore. But it does still require manual intervention, and there are still the macro issues of whether you really want people to have to acquire some DBA skillz to read their mail. I was *not* proposing this approach. I remain of the opinion that mysql is also too heavyweight for this, though. If the akonadi folk don't like sqlite, maybe they should be looking into something like bdb. Embedded databases are simply different critters from database servers, and trying to pretend that code designed as the latter can be used as the former is not going to lead to anything but pain. regards, tom lane -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: mysql is now a critpath package? WTF?
On Thu, 2012-01-05 at 13:13 -0500, Bill Nottingham wrote: Tom Lane (t...@redhat.com) said: So I submitted a routine bodhi request for updating mysql, and was astonished to find that it's marked as critpath. It was never that before. Who decided this, The dependency solver. It's not a manual process. and would it not have been polite to involve or at least notify the package maintainer? http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/devel-announce/2011-December/000868.html We could consider having pkgdb e-mail the owner when the critpath bit for the package gets flipped. Toshio, is that possible? As to where it came from, the dep chain is: kdepim - akonadi - qt-mysql, mysql-server kdepim is in critical path as part of 'critical-path-apps', which is essentially mail web. The change that caused this to get added is that the script prior to early December wasn't actually iterating over the proper critpath groups, including critical-path-apps. I don't recall mail being a critical path function. I'm not convinced kdepim should be critpath. The wiki states: graphical network install post-install booting decrypt encrypted filesystems graphics login networking get updates minimal buildroot compose new trees compose live None of those includes email, or anything else kdepim handles. -- Adam Williamson Fedora QA Community Monkey IRC: adamw | Twitter: AdamW_Fedora | identi.ca: adamwfedora http://www.happyassassin.net -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: mysql is now a critpath package? WTF?
On Thu, 2012-01-05 at 20:25 +0100, Kevin Kofler wrote: Bill Nottingham wrote: kdepim is in critical path as part of 'critical-path-apps', which is essentially mail web. The change that caused this to get added is that the script prior to early December wasn't actually iterating over the proper critpath groups, including critical-path-apps. I think we should reconsider including these things (also critical-path-kde) in critpath. We've been working fine for years without those actually being marked critpath. The critpath process is just an annoyance for these packages. I'd suggest removing all of kde* from critpath, and I think most if not all of KDE SIG agrees with me on this (if you want an official statement, I can put it up for the next KDE SIG meeting). Per my reading of critpath, the only desktop-level functions it includes are 'networking' and 'install updates', which would really mean only knetworkmanager (or whatever it's really called) and kpackagekit (ditto) should be critpath. -- Adam Williamson Fedora QA Community Monkey IRC: adamw | Twitter: AdamW_Fedora | identi.ca: adamwfedora http://www.happyassassin.net -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: mysql is now a critpath package? WTF?
Adam Williamson (awill...@redhat.com) said: On Thu, 2012-01-05 at 13:13 -0500, Bill Nottingham wrote: Tom Lane (t...@redhat.com) said: So I submitted a routine bodhi request for updating mysql, and was astonished to find that it's marked as critpath. It was never that before. Who decided this, The dependency solver. It's not a manual process. and would it not have been polite to involve or at least notify the package maintainer? http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/devel-announce/2011-December/000868.html We could consider having pkgdb e-mail the owner when the critpath bit for the package gets flipped. Toshio, is that possible? As to where it came from, the dep chain is: kdepim - akonadi - qt-mysql, mysql-server kdepim is in critical path as part of 'critical-path-apps', which is essentially mail web. The change that caused this to get added is that the script prior to early December wasn't actually iterating over the proper critpath groups, including critical-path-apps. I don't recall mail being a critical path function. I'm not convinced kdepim should be critpath. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Updates_Policy See Updates to 'critical path' packages. Bill -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: mysql is now a critpath package? WTF?
El Thu, 05 Jan 2012 12:16:34 -0500 Tom Lane t...@redhat.com escribió: So I submitted a routine bodhi request for updating mysql, and was astonished to find that it's marked as critpath. It was never that before. Who decided this, and would it not have been polite to involve or at least notify the package maintainer? regards, tom lane its an automated process. something in the package set that defines the critical path has added a dep on mysql so its been added. at least thats my guess as to whats happened. Dennis -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: mysql is now a critpath package? WTF?
Dennis Gilmore den...@ausil.us writes: El Thu, 05 Jan 2012 12:16:34 -0500 Tom Lane t...@redhat.com escribió: So I submitted a routine bodhi request for updating mysql, and was astonished to find that it's marked as critpath. It was never that before. Who decided this, and would it not have been polite to involve or at least notify the package maintainer? its an automated process. something in the package set that defines the critical path has added a dep on mysql so its been added. at least thats my guess as to whats happened. That answer doesn't make me any happier. I've got a problem with being saddled with an extra layer of bureaucracy without any say-so on my part, and I'm also quite nervous about the idea of something that is genuinely critpath depending on something as rickety as mysql. How would I find out exactly where the dep came from, so I can have a word with that package's maintainer? regards, tom lane -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: mysql is now a critpath package? WTF?
On Thu, Jan 5, 2012 at 5:36 PM, Tom Lane t...@redhat.com wrote: Dennis Gilmore den...@ausil.us writes: El Thu, 05 Jan 2012 12:16:34 -0500 Tom Lane t...@redhat.com escribió: So I submitted a routine bodhi request for updating mysql, and was astonished to find that it's marked as critpath. It was never that before. Who decided this, and would it not have been polite to involve or at least notify the package maintainer? its an automated process. something in the package set that defines the critical path has added a dep on mysql so its been added. at least thats my guess as to whats happened. That answer doesn't make me any happier. I've got a problem with being saddled with an extra layer of bureaucracy without any say-so on my part, and I'm also quite nervous about the idea of something that is genuinely critpath depending on something as rickety as mysql. Your not the only one with the problem. Its not that bad. How would I find out exactly where the dep came from, so I can have a word with that package's maintainer? Peter -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: mysql is now a critpath package? WTF?
El Thu, 05 Jan 2012 12:36:25 -0500 Tom Lane t...@redhat.com escribió: Dennis Gilmore den...@ausil.us writes: El Thu, 05 Jan 2012 12:16:34 -0500 Tom Lane t...@redhat.com escribió: So I submitted a routine bodhi request for updating mysql, and was astonished to find that it's marked as critpath. It was never that before. Who decided this, and would it not have been polite to involve or at least notify the package maintainer? its an automated process. something in the package set that defines the critical path has added a dep on mysql so its been added. at least thats my guess as to whats happened. That answer doesn't make me any happier. I've got a problem with being saddled with an extra layer of bureaucracy without any say-so on my part, and I'm also quite nervous about the idea of something that is genuinely critpath depending on something as rickety as mysql. How would I find out exactly where the dep came from, so I can have a word with that package's maintainer? regards, tom lane http://koji.fedoraproject.org/mash/rawhide-20120105/logs/critpath.log indicates its qt or akonadi likely both. Its likely been critical path for quite some time. Dennis -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: mysql is now a critpath package? WTF?
Peter Robinson pbrobin...@gmail.com writes: On Thu, Jan 5, 2012 at 5:36 PM, Tom Lane t...@redhat.com wrote: That answer doesn't make me any happier. I've got a problem with being saddled with an extra layer of bureaucracy without any say-so on my part, and I'm also quite nervous about the idea of something that is genuinely critpath depending on something as rickety as mysql. Your not the only one with the problem. Its not that bad. I've got other critpath packages, so I know exactly what kind of additional bureaucracy I'm getting into, thank you. But I'm not following how something that's not even installed by default can reasonably become marked critpath. regards, tom lane -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: mysql is now a critpath package? WTF?
Tom Lane (t...@redhat.com) said: So I submitted a routine bodhi request for updating mysql, and was astonished to find that it's marked as critpath. It was never that before. Who decided this, The dependency solver. It's not a manual process. and would it not have been polite to involve or at least notify the package maintainer? http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/devel-announce/2011-December/000868.html We could consider having pkgdb e-mail the owner when the critpath bit for the package gets flipped. Toshio, is that possible? As to where it came from, the dep chain is: kdepim - akonadi - qt-mysql, mysql-server kdepim is in critical path as part of 'critical-path-apps', which is essentially mail web. The change that caused this to get added is that the script prior to early December wasn't actually iterating over the proper critpath groups, including critical-path-apps. Bill -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: mysql is now a critpath package? WTF?
Bill Nottingham wrote: Tom Lane (t...@redhat.com) said: So I submitted a routine bodhi request for updating mysql, and was astonished to find that it's marked as critpath. It was never that before. Who decided this, The dependency solver. It's not a manual process. and would it not have been polite to involve or at least notify the package maintainer? http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/devel-announce/2011- December/000868.html We could consider having pkgdb e-mail the owner when the critpath bit for the package gets flipped. Toshio, is that possible? As to where it came from, the dep chain is: kdepim - akonadi - qt-mysql, mysql-server kdepim is in critical path as part of 'critical-path-apps', which is essentially mail web. Sorry Tom, didn't foresee all the implications when we flipped f16's default akonadi backend sqlite - mysql late(ish) in the cycle. I'm of a mind to revisit this (again). -- rex -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: mysql is now a critpath package? WTF?
On 01/05/2012 07:32 PM, Rex Dieter wrote: Sorry Tom, didn't foresee all the implications when we flipped f16's default akonadi backend sqlite - mysql late(ish) in the cycle. I'm of a mind to revisit this (again). -- rex Just my 2c, I'm also of the opinion something lighter than mysql is more appropriate for the desktop. Brendan -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: mysql is now a critpath package? WTF?
Bill Nottingham nott...@redhat.com writes: http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/devel-announce/2011-December/000868.html ... The change that caused this to get added is that the script prior to early December wasn't actually iterating over the proper critpath groups, including critical-path-apps. Ah. So it's not a recent dependency addition, but just the result of following critpath dependencies more correctly. Thanks for the clarification. regards, tom lane -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: mysql is now a critpath package? WTF?
Brendan Jones wrote: On 01/05/2012 07:32 PM, Rex Dieter wrote: Sorry Tom, didn't foresee all the implications when we flipped f16's default akonadi backend sqlite - mysql late(ish) in the cycle. I'm of a mind to revisit this (again). -- rex Just my 2c, I'm also of the opinion something lighter than mysql is more appropriate for the desktop. Why does this sound so familiar? I want to say I remember many e-mails to devel/users about problems with akonadi and MySQL a year or so ago and requests for KDE to switch to something lighter. -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: mysql is now a critpath package? WTF?
Rex Dieter rdie...@math.unl.edu writes: Bill Nottingham wrote: As to where it came from, the dep chain is: kdepim - akonadi - qt-mysql, mysql-server kdepim is in critical path as part of 'critical-path-apps', which is essentially mail web. Sorry Tom, didn't foresee all the implications when we flipped f16's default akonadi backend sqlite - mysql late(ish) in the cycle. I'm of a mind to revisit this (again). I'd recommend it. mysql is kind of a heavyweight requirement to have underneath a desktop component: it raises the ante in terms of what has to be installed and running, and in terms of required sysadmin-ish know-how. (Does the average user have a clue how to configure mysql securely, or even realize that it's not very secure out-of-the-box? If there are multiple users on the machine, what about information leakage via access to other users' tables?) If sqlite works for you it's probably a better choice for this. regards, tom lane -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: mysql is now a critpath package? WTF?
On Thu, Jan 05, 2012 at 01:13:47PM -0500, Bill Nottingham wrote: Tom Lane (t...@redhat.com) said: So I submitted a routine bodhi request for updating mysql, and was astonished to find that it's marked as critpath. It was never that before. Who decided this, The dependency solver. It's not a manual process. and would it not have been polite to involve or at least notify the package maintainer? http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/devel-announce/2011-December/000868.html We could consider having pkgdb e-mail the owner when the critpath bit for the package gets flipped. Toshio, is that possible? It is if we decide we want to do that. Just let me know and I'll generate a hotfix for it. -Toshio pgpfxJ9aTnpwn.pgp Description: PGP signature -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: mysql is now a critpath package? WTF?
Toshio Kuratomi a.bad...@gmail.com writes: On Thu, Jan 05, 2012 at 01:13:47PM -0500, Bill Nottingham wrote: We could consider having pkgdb e-mail the owner when the critpath bit for the package gets flipped. Toshio, is that possible? It is if we decide we want to do that. Just let me know and I'll generate a hotfix for it. If it's not too much work, this package maintainer for one would appreciate that. regards, tom lane -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: mysql is now a critpath package? WTF?
On Thu, 2012-01-05 at 14:08 -0500, Tom Lane wrote: Toshio Kuratomi a.bad...@gmail.com writes: On Thu, Jan 05, 2012 at 01:13:47PM -0500, Bill Nottingham wrote: We could consider having pkgdb e-mail the owner when the critpath bit for the package gets flipped. Toshio, is that possible? It is if we decide we want to do that. Just let me know and I'll generate a hotfix for it. If it's not too much work, this package maintainer for one would appreciate that. This one too. In both directions, in fact, I'm just as happy to see my packages fall off critpath. - ajax signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: mysql is now a critpath package? WTF?
Rex Dieter wrote: I'm of a mind to revisit this (again). NO, not again!!! Can we please stop this nonsense? Upstream defaults to MySQL for a reason, and strongly recommends NOT using the SQLite backend by default. SQLite doesn't support concurrency (i.e. any Akonadi operation blocks all others) and is slower. I think overriding the upstream default is a very bad idea in this case, and I'm surprised you are pushing for it that much, you're otherwise always the upstream, upstream, upstream guy. Kevin Kofler -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: mysql is now a critpath package? WTF?
Tom Lane wrote: I'd recommend it. mysql is kind of a heavyweight requirement to have underneath a desktop component: it raises the ante in terms of what has to be installed and running, and in terms of required sysadmin-ish know-how. (Does the average user have a clue how to configure mysql securely, or even realize that it's not very secure out-of-the-box? If there are multiple users on the machine, what about information leakage via access to other users' tables?) Akonadi ships its own default MySQL configuration, which is per user. It does not use or require the systemwide instance (by default; it can be configured to connect to a systemwide or even remote MySQL server, but the default is a local per-user instance). There's no administration required at all, Akonadi fires up everything automatically. Kevin Kofler -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: mysql is now a critpath package? WTF?
Bill Nottingham wrote: kdepim is in critical path as part of 'critical-path-apps', which is essentially mail web. The change that caused this to get added is that the script prior to early December wasn't actually iterating over the proper critpath groups, including critical-path-apps. I think we should reconsider including these things (also critical-path-kde) in critpath. We've been working fine for years without those actually being marked critpath. The critpath process is just an annoyance for these packages. I'd suggest removing all of kde* from critpath, and I think most if not all of KDE SIG agrees with me on this (if you want an official statement, I can put it up for the next KDE SIG meeting). Kevin Kofler -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: mysql is now a critpath package? WTF?
Am 05.01.2012 20:22, schrieb Kevin Kofler: Akonadi ships its own default MySQL configuration, which is per user. It does not use or require the systemwide instance (by default; it can be configured to connect to a systemwide or even remote MySQL server, but the default is a local per-user instance). There's no administration required at all, Akonadi fires up everything automatically. does it also run mysql_upgrade automatically or is it supposed to be the road of dead two mysql-major-releases later? somehow strange that amarok was crippled down from optional mysqld-usage to sqlite and now KDE introduces a new mysqld instance signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: mysql is now a critpath package? WTF?
Kevin Kofler (kevin.kof...@chello.at) said: Bill Nottingham wrote: kdepim is in critical path as part of 'critical-path-apps', which is essentially mail web. The change that caused this to get added is that the script prior to early December wasn't actually iterating over the proper critpath groups, including critical-path-apps. I think we should reconsider including these things (also critical-path-kde) in critpath. We've been working fine for years without those actually being marked critpath. The critpath process is just an annoyance for these packages. I'd suggest removing all of kde* from critpath, and I think most if not all of KDE SIG agrees with me on this (if you want an official statement, I can put it up for the next KDE SIG meeting). Sure, the KDE SIG can file any proposals/requests as a FESCo ticket and we'll look at them, much as in https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/699. Bill -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: mysql is now a critpath package? WTF?
On 01/05/2012 08:20 PM, Kevin Kofler wrote: Rex Dieter wrote: I'm of a mind to revisit this (again). NO, not again!!! Can we please stop this nonsense? Upstream defaults to MySQL for a reason, and strongly recommends NOT using the SQLite backend by default. SQLite doesn't support concurrency (i.e. any Akonadi operation blocks all others) and is slower. I think overriding the upstream default is a very bad idea in this case, and I'm surprised you are pushing for it that much, you're otherwise always the upstream, upstream, upstream guy. Kevin Kofler Can understand that this is a hot topic but ... Surely for a single user desktop you don't need a concurrent DB backend. If upstream recommends this then I would recommend upstream to reconsider their design. -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: mysql is now a critpath package? WTF?
On Thu, Jan 05, 2012 at 02:08:02PM -0500, Tom Lane wrote: Toshio Kuratomi a.bad...@gmail.com writes: On Thu, Jan 05, 2012 at 01:13:47PM -0500, Bill Nottingham wrote: We could consider having pkgdb e-mail the owner when the critpath bit for the package gets flipped. Toshio, is that possible? It is if we decide we want to do that. Just let me know and I'll generate a hotfix for it. If it's not too much work, this package maintainer for one would appreciate that. https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-infrastructure/ticket/3083 I'm going to try to use that as my example in the FUDCon workshop on python programming I said I'd give so it will hopefully be done in early February. -Toshio pgppcVMWAwbep.pgp Description: PGP signature -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: mysql is now a critpath package? WTF?
El Thu, 05 Jan 2012 20:20:55 +0100 Kevin Kofler kevin.kof...@chello.at escribió: Rex Dieter wrote: I'm of a mind to revisit this (again). NO, not again!!! Can we please stop this nonsense? Upstream defaults to MySQL for a reason, and strongly recommends NOT using the SQLite backend by default. SQLite doesn't support concurrency (i.e. any Akonadi operation blocks all others) and is slower. I think overriding the upstream default is a very bad idea in this case, and I'm surprised you are pushing for it that much, you're otherwise always the upstream, upstream, upstream guy. Kevin Kofler considering that mysql couldnt cope with my email and i had to stop using kmail all together going to sqlite im sure would be worse. but thats my 2c -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: mysql is now a critpath package? WTF?
Reindl Harald wrote: does it also run mysql_upgrade automatically or is it supposed to be the road of dead two mysql-major-releases later? AFAIK, it does run mysql_upgrade when needed. somehow strange that amarok was crippled down from optional mysqld-usage to sqlite and now KDE introduces a new mysqld instance Amarok actually uses MySQL-embedded, not SQLite. SQLite support was dropped permanently with 2.0. Kevin Kofler -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: mysql is now a critpath package? WTF?
Reindl Harald wrote: Am 05.01.2012 20:22, schrieb Kevin Kofler: Akonadi ships its own default MySQL configuration, which is per user. It does not use or require the systemwide instance (by default; it can be configured to connect to a systemwide or even remote MySQL server, but the default is a local per-user instance). There's no administration required at all, Akonadi fires up everything automatically. does it also run mysql_upgrade automatically yes, iirc. -- rex -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: mysql is now a critpath package? WTF?
Brendan Jones wrote: Can understand that this is a hot topic but ... Surely for a single user desktop you don't need a concurrent DB backend. Try reading your existing mail while fetching new one. (Just one example.) (And that hasn't worked with KMail 1 ever, AFAIK KMail 2 finally fixes this, but it only really works if Akonadi has a concurrent database, otherwise the UI responds, but can only show you a waiting for Akonadi lock message.) Kevin Kofler -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: mysql is now a critpath package? WTF?
Dennis Gilmore wrote: considering that mysql couldnt cope with my email and i had to stop using kmail all together going to sqlite im sure would be worse. but thats my 2c Flipping defaults doesn't mean other backends cannot be used. We've helped make sure that switching backends (to/from sqlite, mysql) is relatively easy (both per user and per machine/site). -- rex -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: mysql is now a critpath package? WTF?
On Thu, 05 Jan 2012 20:20:55 +0100 Kevin Kofler kevin.kof...@chello.at wrote: Rex Dieter wrote: I'm of a mind to revisit this (again). NO, not again!!! Can we please stop this nonsense? Upstream defaults to MySQL for a reason, and strongly recommends NOT using the SQLite backend by default. SQLite doesn't support concurrency (i.e. any Akonadi operation blocks all others) and is slower. I think overriding the upstream default is a very bad idea in this case, and I'm surprised you are pushing for it that much, you're otherwise always the upstream, upstream, upstream guy. Kevin Kofler Well it also took them two years to consider 'NFS mounted home' a valid use case, during which the whole 'you really need MySQL!!!' was broken for our site. I'm not exactly sure that blindly following upstream recommendations on a topic that has been contested before, with good reason, is a good idea either. --Stijn -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: mysql is now a critpath package? WTF?
Stijn Hoop wrote: Well it also took them two years to consider 'NFS mounted home' a valid use case, during which the whole 'you really need MySQL!!!' was broken for our site. It's easy to switch (maybe I should blog about it... ) per user: kcmshell4 akonadi per machine/site: create/edit /etc/xdg/akonadi/akonadiserverrc to contain: [%General] Driver=QSQLITE3 -- rex -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: mysql is now a critpath package? WTF?
On Thu, Jan 5, 2012 at 5:51 PM, Tom Lane t...@redhat.com wrote: Peter Robinson pbrobin...@gmail.com writes: On Thu, Jan 5, 2012 at 5:36 PM, Tom Lane t...@redhat.com wrote: That answer doesn't make me any happier. I've got a problem with being saddled with an extra layer of bureaucracy without any say-so on my part, and I'm also quite nervous about the idea of something that is genuinely critpath depending on something as rickety as mysql. Your not the only one with the problem. Its not that bad. I've got other critpath packages, so I know exactly what kind of additional bureaucracy I'm getting into, thank you. But I'm not following how something that's not even installed by default can reasonably become marked critpath. mysql the server isn't, but mysql-libs is used by a lot. Peter -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: mysql is now a critpath package? WTF?
On 01/05/2012 09:03 PM, Kevin Kofler wrote: Brendan Jones wrote: Can understand that this is a hot topic but ... Surely for a single user desktop you don't need a concurrent DB backend. Try reading your existing mail while fetching new one. (Just one example.) (And that hasn't worked with KMail 1 ever, AFAIK KMail 2 finally fixes this, but it only really works if Akonadi has a concurrent database, otherwise the UI responds, but can only show you a waiting for Akonadi lock message.) Kevin Kofler I'm sorry but that's just bad design. I develop and deploy many applications which run under much more stringent restrictions, ie. do not have the luxury to run mysql. And yes, these are challenging issues, but its not that hard to provide a solution for a single user. Obviously, if I had the choice as to the backend I'd prefer, it would not be sqlite. But in the case of the desktop? -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: mysql is now a critpath package? WTF?
Tom Lane wrote: I've got other critpath packages, so I know exactly what kind of additional bureaucracy I'm getting into, thank you. But I'm not following how something that's not even installed by default can reasonably become marked critpath. mysql-server is actually installed by default on the KDE spin, because Akonadi uses it. (The systemwide instance is not enabled by default and not used by Akonadi though, Akonadi starts its own per-user instance.) Kevin Kofler -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
