Re: Summary/Minutes for today's FESCo meeting (2010-10-05)
On Wed, Oct 13, 2010 at 5:45 PM, Kevin Kofler kevin.kof...@chello.at wrote: Bruno Wolff III wrote: There was also talk about whether or not it would be allowed for there to be a separate Iceweasel package in Fedora. This might be done to test the feasibility of maintaining it. There were mixed feelings about this amoung FESCO. This is essentially not feasible because most of the disputed patches are in xulrunner, and a hypothetical separate Iceweasel package would share xulrunner with Firefox, unless we have even more bundled libraries. I also don't see what we have to gain from shipping both. So it's really an either-or situation. IMHO, the version which is not compliant with our guidelines needs to go away, period. We need to stop treating Mozilla specially, it needs to be held by the same rules as any other upstream. If they don't cooperate, it's the maintainer's job to fix things or orphan it. If nobody picks it up when orphaned, it should be retired like any other package. Firefox is NOT an essential package, the GNOME spin could just ship Epiphany (GNOME's default browser) instead, and other desktop spins ALREADY ship the respective desktop's default instead of Firefox! Kevin Kofler -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel It doesn't help when a majority of voting FESCo members are biased Firefox users who seem to hate the idea of Iceweasel (based on what I gather from their meeting notes). There seem to be some preconceptions about what happens when you remove the branding. No conclusive data can be provided to indicate how much users Firefox brings the distro. I also don't appreciate the comment at the meeting about non contributing members on the mailing list complaining about this issue. It's an argument often used to ignore people with valid arguments who also don't happen to have a computer science degree. Some of us advocate Fedora and that in itself is a contribution. Fedora consists of volunteers in many areas, not all of them make packages or write code. -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Summary/Minutes for today's FESCo meeting (2010-10-05)
On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 10:51:08AM -0400, Brandon Lozza wrote: It doesn't help when a majority of voting FESCo members are biased Firefox users who seem to hate the idea of Iceweasel (based on what I gather from their meeting notes). There seem to be some preconceptions about what happens when you remove the branding. No conclusive data can be provided to indicate how much users Firefox brings the distro. Actually, I generally use epiphany. I also don't appreciate the comment at the meeting about non contributing members on the mailing list complaining about this issue. It's an argument often used to ignore people with valid arguments who also don't happen to have a computer science degree. Some of us advocate Fedora and that in itself is a contribution. Fedora consists of volunteers in many areas, not all of them make packages or write code. I should point out that my degrees are in biology and biology, and the one that I haven't quite got yet is in biology. -- Matthew Garrett | mj...@srcf.ucam.org -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Summary/Minutes for today's FESCo meeting (2010-10-05)
On Wed, 2010-10-13 at 23:45 +0200, Kevin Kofler wrote: Firefox is NOT an essential package, the GNOME spin could just ship Epiphany (GNOME's default browser) instead, and other desktop spins ALREADY ship the respective desktop's default instead of Firefox! Epiphany is still not serious about security: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=643224 Until this changes, I definitely won't use it. -- Matt -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Summary/Minutes for today's FESCo meeting (2010-10-05)
On Thu, 14 Oct 2010 10:51:08 -0400 Brandon Lozza bran...@pwnage.ca wrote: It doesn't help when a majority of voting FESCo members are biased Firefox users who seem to hate the idea of Iceweasel (based on what I gather from their meeting notes). I use midori here. Every once in a great while I will run firefox to look at something or see some behavior, but I almost never have it running. Please don't speak for others when you don't really know the answer to the question. There seem to be some preconceptions about what happens when you remove the branding. No conclusive data can be provided to indicate how much users Firefox brings the distro. Indeed. I also don't appreciate the comment at the meeting about non contributing members on the mailing list complaining about this issue. It's an argument often used to ignore people with valid arguments who also don't happen to have a computer science degree. Some of us advocate Fedora and that in itself is a contribution. Fedora consists of volunteers in many areas, not all of them make packages or write code. Sure. I agree, but just discussing something or being vocal about it means you expect someone else to do the work. In an all volunteer setup like Fedora, you may have to realize that this means it won't be done unless someone steps up to do it. kevin signature.asc Description: PGP signature -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Summary/Minutes for today's FESCo meeting (2010-10-05)
Bruno Wolff III wrote: There was also talk about whether or not it would be allowed for there to be a separate Iceweasel package in Fedora. This might be done to test the feasibility of maintaining it. There were mixed feelings about this amoung FESCO. This is essentially not feasible because most of the disputed patches are in xulrunner, and a hypothetical separate Iceweasel package would share xulrunner with Firefox, unless we have even more bundled libraries. I also don't see what we have to gain from shipping both. So it's really an either-or situation. IMHO, the version which is not compliant with our guidelines needs to go away, period. We need to stop treating Mozilla specially, it needs to be held by the same rules as any other upstream. If they don't cooperate, it's the maintainer's job to fix things or orphan it. If nobody picks it up when orphaned, it should be retired like any other package. Firefox is NOT an essential package, the GNOME spin could just ship Epiphany (GNOME's default browser) instead, and other desktop spins ALREADY ship the respective desktop's default instead of Firefox! Kevin Kofler -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Summary/Minutes for today's FESCo meeting (2010-10-05)
On 10/5/10, Kevin Fenzi ke...@scrye.com wrote: === #fedora-meeting: FESCO (2010-10-05) === Meeting started by nirik at 19:30:01 UTC. The full logs are available at http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2010-10-05/fesco.2010-10-05-19.30.log.html Meeting summary --- * init process (nirik, 19:30:01) * mclasen will not be able to attend today due to a backhoe incident. (nirik, 19:30:48) * cwicket will also be unable to attend. (nirik, 19:30:59) * kylem is also unable to attend. (nirik, 19:31:13) * #473 new meeting time (redux) (nirik, 19:33:54) * LINK: https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/473 (nirik, 19:33:54) * ACTION: make sure cwickert is updated, revisit next week. (nirik, 19:46:09) * reminder: you can vote in tickets if unable to attend the meeting. (nirik, 19:46:22) * Updates policy / Vision implementation status (nirik, 19:46:48) * ideas wanted to improve stable N-1 wording/distinction. (nirik, 19:57:04) * LINK: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Packaging/Guidelines#Changelogs -- only shows formatting rules, so some recommendations for their content might be nice. (gholms, 20:08:46) * AGREED: will asking testers/qa to be on the lookout for things not following the update_policy and notify us via a ticket for further discussion. (nirik, 20:09:54) * AGREED: will see if FPC is willing/able to expand on the changelog guidelines. (nirik, 20:12:47) * #472 About Mozilla's decision to not allow using the system's libvpx (nirik, 20:14:40) * LINK: https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/472 (nirik, 20:14:40) * LINK: https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/472 (nirik, 20:30:41) * AGREED: will vote on proposals in ticket. (nirik, 21:05:11) * Open Floor (nirik, 21:05:43) * LINK: https://fedorahosted.org/rel-eng/ticket/4149 (gholms, 21:07:13) Meeting ended at 21:18:39 UTC. Action Items * make sure cwickert is updated, revisit next week. Action Items, by person --- * cwickert * make sure cwickert is updated, revisit next week. * **UNASSIGNED** * (none) People Present (lines said) --- * nirik (145) * pjones (69) * mjg59 (56) * notting (39) * gholms (31) * ajax (23) * hicham (22) * abadger1999 (17) * spot (10) * Oxf13 (10) * zodbot (8) * mdomsch (8) * mcepl (1) * rdieter (1) * SMParrish (0) * kylem (0) * mclasen (0) * cwickert (0) -- 19:30:01 nirik #startmeeting FESCO (2010-10-05) 19:30:01 zodbot Meeting started Tue Oct 5 19:30:01 2010 UTC. The chair is nirik. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 19:30:01 zodbot Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 19:30:01 nirik #meetingname fesco 19:30:01 zodbot The meeting name has been set to 'fesco' 19:30:01 nirik #chair mclasen notting nirik SMParrish kylem ajax pjones cwickert mjg59 19:30:01 nirik #topic init process 19:30:01 zodbot Current chairs: SMParrish ajax cwickert kylem mclasen mjg59 nirik notting pjones 19:30:06 * notting is here 19:30:36 * ajax waves 19:30:48 nirik #info mclasen will not be able to attend today due to a backhoe incident. 19:30:56 * pjones throws a trout at ajax 19:30:59 nirik #info cwicket will also be unable to attend. 19:31:12 gholms A backhoe incident? Ouch. 19:31:13 nirik #info kylem is also unable to attend. 19:31:21 nirik gholms: took out his home internet it seems. 19:31:30 gholms Ok, that's not *so* bad. 19:31:52 notting and kylem will not be here 19:32:19 nirik SMParrish: / mjg59: you guys here? 19:33:15 mjg59 Afternoon 19:33:27 nirik Hello. :) Thats 5. 19:33:45 nirik Shall we start with meeting time? 19:33:54 nirik #topic #473 new meeting time (redux) 19:33:54 nirik https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/473 19:34:09 nirik has everyone updated their http://whenisgood.net/ee8prq/results/z5binx entry? 19:34:15 ajax i have 19:34:25 * nirik 's didn't really change any 19:35:04 nirik so, currently we have 0 times everyone can attend. ;) 19:35:18 pjones yeah :/ 19:35:22 nirik a few times with 1 person left out, but everyone else... 19:35:31 pjones and excluding one person doesn't really help that much 19:36:11 nirik I guess we need to confirm that everyone updated before we do anything else? 19:36:24 notting although one of the times where mclasen is the only holdout his update info says will become available in a couple of weeks 19:37:01 nirik oh? 19:37:12 mjg59 Wait. I'm suddenly worried by the timezones here. 19:37:15 nirik wed 1-2? 19:37:17 pjones So can we move to that time and then hope that he can make do responding to trac until then? sounds not that great. 19:37:27 nirik mjg59: yeah, the site is confusing. 19:37:28 pjones mjg59: yeah, the site's representation of timezones is weird. 19:37:30 notting nirik: 2-3 your time.
Re: Summary/Minutes for today's FESCo meeting (2010-10-05)
On 10/05/2010 11:20 PM, Kevin Fenzi wrote: === #fedora-meeting: FESCO (2010-10-05) === ... 19:59:38nirik some examples: dracut was updated in f12/13 with a bunch of patches. Were those all bugfixes? 19:59:59pjones if it's hard to tell, that means either a) we need to think about how to make a generic exemplar of that case, or b) the packager needs to be telling us more about the update 20:00:07nirik NetworkManager rebases to a git snapshot in all of f12/f13/f14/rawhide at the same time. 20:00:19pjones And I think both of those are b there. 20:00:59nirik right, so more education... 20:01:12mjg59 Ideally we'd have some means of identifying this 20:01:14pjones (obviously, there could be more classes of things; feel free to bring them up if they're of consequence) 20:01:28mjg59 But insisting that all changelog elements be flagged with a bug just encourages people not to mention things in changelogs 20:01:46nirik yeah. 20:02:05pjones mjg59: If your changelog looks like this, it's b in my list: 20:02:07pjones * Wed Sep 22 2010 Harald Hoyerhar...@redhat.com 005-4 - backported a lot of bugfixes from git 20:02:31pjones insisting that there's an actual changelog might be a start? ;) Well, I could list all bugs found in F12,F13,F14 in the changelog, which are also displayed in https://admin.fedoraproject.org/updates/dracut-005-4.fc13 But I cannot list all the RHEL6 bugs. It's basically a new dracut version, but I tried only to cherry-pick the relevant patches of dracut upstream for the bugfixes + known bugs without bugzillas + patches needed for the cherry-picking. It was a decision of: - backport only the bugfixes + new code to adapt for the backporting (which might introduce new bugs) or - cherry-picking tested code, which fixes the bugs + tested patches needed for the cherry-picking so I chose the latter and cherry-picked. +Patch42: 0042-kernel-modules-add-more-hardcoded-modules.patch +Patch43: 0043-dracut-functions-use-udevadm-to-get-ID_FS_.patch +Patch44: 0044-dracut.conf-use-as-default-for-config-variables.patch +Patch45: 0045-znet-use-ccw-init-and-ccw-rules-from-s390utils-in-dr.patch +Patch46: 0046-znet-renamed-rd_CCW-to-rd_ZNET.patch +Patch47: 0047-fcoe-add-sbin-vconfig-and-the-8021q-kernel-module.patch +Patch48: 0048-dracut.8-fix-rd_LVM_LV-description.patch +Patch49: 0049-plymouth-only-display-luksname-and-device-for-multip.patch +Patch50: 0050-dracut.spec-remove-elfutils-libelf-requirement.patch +Patch51: 0051-use-grep-directly-without-nm-to-drop-binutils-requir.patch +Patch52: 0052-plymouth-plymouth-populate-initrd-get-rid-of-awk.patch +Patch53: 0053-dracut-get-rid-of-the-file-command.patch +Patch54: 0054-dracut.spec-clean-up-the-requirements.patch +Patch55: 0055-90mdraid-dracut-functions-fix-md-raid-hostonly-detec.patch +Patch56: 0056-40network-parse-ip-opts.sh-add-ip-auto6-to-valid-opt.patch +Patch57: 0057-40network-dhclient-script-be-more-verbose.patch +Patch58: 0058-40network-ifup-be-more-verbose.patch +Patch59: 0059-TEST-50-MULTINIC-do-not-provide-a-cdrom-in-the-testc.patch +Patch60: 0060-95fcoe-fcoe-up-wait_for_if_up.patch +Patch61: 0061-get-rid-of-rdnetdebug.patch +Patch62: 0062-95znet-removed-55-ccw.rules-and-ccw_init.patch +Patch63: 0063-Makefile-make-more-clean.patch +Patch64: 0064-selinux-loadpolicy.sh-exit-for-selinux-0.patch +Patch65: 0065-dracut-functions-check-if-specific-dracut-module-is-.patch +Patch66: 0066-multipath-simplify-and-install-wwids-rhbz-595719.patch +Patch67: 0067-multipath-remove-multipath-udev-rules-if-no-multipat.patch +Patch68: 0068-90crypt-crypto_LUKS-identifier-corrected.patch +Patch69: 0069-selinux-move-selinux-to-a-separate-module.patch +Patch70: 0070-plymouth-cryptroot-ask.sh-beautify-password-prompt.patch +Patch71: 0071-network-depend-on-ifcfg-if-etc-sysconfig-network-scr.patch +Patch72: 0072-network-strip-pxelinux-hardware-type-field-from-BOOT.patch +Patch73: 0073-dracut.spec-moved-znet-to-dracut-network.patch +Patch74: 0074-Write-rules-for-symlinks-to-dev-.udev-rules.d-for-la.patch +Patch75: 0075-dracut-functions-set-LANG-C-for-ldd-output-parsing.patch +Patch76: 0076-dracut-functions-use-LC_ALL-C-rather-than-LANG-C.patch +Patch77: 0077-dmsquash-resume-do-not-name-the-dev-.udev-rules-like.patch +Patch78: 0078-dmsquash-live-mount-live-image-at-dev-.initramfs-liv.patch +Patch79: 0079-dmsquash-live-depend-on-dm-module.patch +Patch80: 0080-dmsquash-live-do-not-umount-dev-.initramfs-live-for-.patch +Patch81: 0081-plymouth-depend-on-crypt-if-cryptsetup-exists.patch +Patch82: 0082-dracut.spec-removed-duplicate-COPYING.patch +Patch83: 0083-Just-look-for-cryptroot-instead-of-sbin-cryptroot.patch +Patch84: 0084-Have-cryptroot-ask-load-dm_crypt-if-needed.patch +Patch85: 0085-crypt-assemble-70-luks.rules-dynamically.patch +Patch86: 0086-cryptroot-ask-s-getargs-rd_NO_CRYPTTAB-getarg-rd_NO_.patch +Patch87:
Re: Summary/Minutes for today's FESCo meeting (2010-10-05)
On Wed, Oct 06, 2010 at 02:46:28PM +0200, Harald Hoyer wrote: But I cannot list all the RHEL6 bugs. Why not? Strip partner names if necessary, but please make it possible for people to decide whether a given update is a benefit to them. -- Matthew Garrett | mj...@srcf.ucam.org -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Summary/Minutes for today's FESCo meeting (2010-10-05)
On Wed, Oct 06, 2010 at 08:29:32 -0400, Brandon Lozza bran...@pwnage.ca wrote: Interesting, from the meeting we can tell 1) A number of people want to give Mozilla an exception. 2) BRANDING is an issue, like I said in another thread. Which is why people are against removing it. People have claimed that the Firefox brand helps Fedora. I'd like to see some measurement of this. Especially in our target audience. 3) Maintainers for Mozilla aren't being expected to follow package guidelines, citing the use of system libs as a source of extra work. Yes and no. There are suggestions that Mozilla does eventually intend to use the upstream libraries once they are considered good enough (except for maybe libpng because of the fork) and so the exception is temporary per library. 4) People still seem to think that Iceweasel is somehow inferior to Firefox. Plus if Fedora removed the branding it wouldn't remove compatibility, source code, plugin support and wouldn't introduce so-called sketchy patches. I don't think that just debranding Firefox would be all that much extra work. Doing that would leave us positioned to do other changes when we were ready and to be able to more quickly respond to security issues. Replacing on of the library dependencies would be work and doing all of those might not currently be sustainable. Also the maintainers of the affected libraries in Fedora would need to help as there are patches in Firefox for some libraries that aren't upstream. There was also talk about whether or not it would be allowed for there to be a separate Iceweasel package in Fedora. This might be done to test the feasibility of maintaining it. There were mixed feelings about this amoung FESCO. -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Summary/Minutes for today's FESCo meeting (2010-10-05)
Matthew Garrett (mj...@srcf.ucam.org) said: But I cannot list all the RHEL6 bugs. Why not? Strip partner names if necessary, but please make it possible for people to decide whether a given update is a benefit to them. Well, he could list them in the bug field, but bodhi would elide them in the updates advisory. He could do double duty and list them all in the changelog, but that's getting a bit extreme when it comes to 100 patches. Bill -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Summary/Minutes for today's FESCo meeting (2010-10-05)
On 10/06/2010 05:59 PM, Bill Nottingham wrote: Matthew Garrett (mj...@srcf.ucam.org) said: But I cannot list all the RHEL6 bugs. Why not? Strip partner names if necessary, but please make it possible for people to decide whether a given update is a benefit to them. Well, he could list them in the bug field, but bodhi would elide them in the updates advisory. He could do double duty and list them all in the changelog, but that's getting a bit extreme when it comes to 100 patches. Bill here we go: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/updates/dracut-005-5.fc13 https://admin.fedoraproject.org/updates/dracut-005-5.fc12 Patches are here: short URL: http://goo.gl/23Bu http://pkgs.fedoraproject.org/gitweb/?p=dracut.git;a=tree;h=refs/heads/f13/master;hb=f13/master -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Summary/Minutes for today's FESCo meeting (2010-10-05)
On Wed, 6 Oct 2010 08:29:32 -0400 Brandon Lozza bran...@pwnage.ca wrote: ...snip many tons of lines... Can you please trim your replies? Interesting, from the meeting we can tell 1) A number of people want to give Mozilla an exception. 2) BRANDING is an issue, like I said in another thread. Which is why people are against removing it. 3) Maintainers for Mozilla aren't being expected to follow package guidelines, citing the use of system libs as a source of extra work. No, it's that upstream doesn't want them to unbundle those libs right now, no matter how much work they are willing to do. 4) People still seem to think that Iceweasel is somehow inferior to Firefox. Plus if Fedora removed the branding it wouldn't remove compatibility, source code, plugin support and wouldn't introduce so-called sketchy patches. Do you have a f14 rpm for iceweasel people could try out and examine? kevin signature.asc Description: PGP signature -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Summary/Minutes for today's FESCo meeting (2010-10-05)
On Wed, 06 Oct 2010 19:20:55 +0200 Harald Hoyer har...@redhat.com wrote: here we go: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/updates/dracut-005-5.fc13 https://admin.fedoraproject.org/updates/dracut-005-5.fc12 Patches are here: short URL: http://goo.gl/23Bu http://pkgs.fedoraproject.org/gitweb/?p=dracut.git;a=tree;h=refs/heads/f13/master;hb=f13/master Thanks. This seems like a lot of change for stable releases, but if they are all bugfixes that might matter to those users I suppose it makes sense. Thanks for adding more details. kevin signature.asc Description: PGP signature -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Summary/Minutes for today's FESCo meeting (2010-10-05)
=== #fedora-meeting: FESCO (2010-10-05) === Meeting started by nirik at 19:30:01 UTC. The full logs are available at http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2010-10-05/fesco.2010-10-05-19.30.log.html Meeting summary --- * init process (nirik, 19:30:01) * mclasen will not be able to attend today due to a backhoe incident. (nirik, 19:30:48) * cwicket will also be unable to attend. (nirik, 19:30:59) * kylem is also unable to attend. (nirik, 19:31:13) * #473 new meeting time (redux) (nirik, 19:33:54) * LINK: https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/473 (nirik, 19:33:54) * ACTION: make sure cwickert is updated, revisit next week. (nirik, 19:46:09) * reminder: you can vote in tickets if unable to attend the meeting. (nirik, 19:46:22) * Updates policy / Vision implementation status (nirik, 19:46:48) * ideas wanted to improve stable N-1 wording/distinction. (nirik, 19:57:04) * LINK: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Packaging/Guidelines#Changelogs -- only shows formatting rules, so some recommendations for their content might be nice. (gholms, 20:08:46) * AGREED: will asking testers/qa to be on the lookout for things not following the update_policy and notify us via a ticket for further discussion. (nirik, 20:09:54) * AGREED: will see if FPC is willing/able to expand on the changelog guidelines. (nirik, 20:12:47) * #472 About Mozilla's decision to not allow using the system's libvpx (nirik, 20:14:40) * LINK: https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/472 (nirik, 20:14:40) * LINK: https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/472 (nirik, 20:30:41) * AGREED: will vote on proposals in ticket. (nirik, 21:05:11) * Open Floor (nirik, 21:05:43) * LINK: https://fedorahosted.org/rel-eng/ticket/4149 (gholms, 21:07:13) Meeting ended at 21:18:39 UTC. Action Items * make sure cwickert is updated, revisit next week. Action Items, by person --- * cwickert * make sure cwickert is updated, revisit next week. * **UNASSIGNED** * (none) People Present (lines said) --- * nirik (145) * pjones (69) * mjg59 (56) * notting (39) * gholms (31) * ajax (23) * hicham (22) * abadger1999 (17) * spot (10) * Oxf13 (10) * zodbot (8) * mdomsch (8) * mcepl (1) * rdieter (1) * SMParrish (0) * kylem (0) * mclasen (0) * cwickert (0) -- 19:30:01 nirik #startmeeting FESCO (2010-10-05) 19:30:01 zodbot Meeting started Tue Oct 5 19:30:01 2010 UTC. The chair is nirik. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 19:30:01 zodbot Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 19:30:01 nirik #meetingname fesco 19:30:01 zodbot The meeting name has been set to 'fesco' 19:30:01 nirik #chair mclasen notting nirik SMParrish kylem ajax pjones cwickert mjg59 19:30:01 nirik #topic init process 19:30:01 zodbot Current chairs: SMParrish ajax cwickert kylem mclasen mjg59 nirik notting pjones 19:30:06 * notting is here 19:30:36 * ajax waves 19:30:48 nirik #info mclasen will not be able to attend today due to a backhoe incident. 19:30:56 * pjones throws a trout at ajax 19:30:59 nirik #info cwicket will also be unable to attend. 19:31:12 gholms A backhoe incident? Ouch. 19:31:13 nirik #info kylem is also unable to attend. 19:31:21 nirik gholms: took out his home internet it seems. 19:31:30 gholms Ok, that's not *so* bad. 19:31:52 notting and kylem will not be here 19:32:19 nirik SMParrish: / mjg59: you guys here? 19:33:15 mjg59 Afternoon 19:33:27 nirik Hello. :) Thats 5. 19:33:45 nirik Shall we start with meeting time? 19:33:54 nirik #topic #473 new meeting time (redux) 19:33:54 nirik https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/473 19:34:09 nirik has everyone updated their http://whenisgood.net/ee8prq/results/z5binx entry? 19:34:15 ajax i have 19:34:25 * nirik 's didn't really change any 19:35:04 nirik so, currently we have 0 times everyone can attend. ;) 19:35:18 pjones yeah :/ 19:35:22 nirik a few times with 1 person left out, but everyone else... 19:35:31 pjones and excluding one person doesn't really help that much 19:36:11 nirik I guess we need to confirm that everyone updated before we do anything else? 19:36:24 notting although one of the times where mclasen is the only holdout his update info says will become available in a couple of weeks 19:37:01 nirik oh? 19:37:12 mjg59 Wait. I'm suddenly worried by the timezones here. 19:37:15 nirik wed 1-2? 19:37:17 pjones So can we move to that time and then hope that he can make do responding to trac until then? sounds not that great. 19:37:27 nirik mjg59: yeah, the site is confusing. 19:37:28 pjones mjg59: yeah, the site's representation of timezones is weird. 19:37:30 notting nirik: 2-3 your time. unless i'm forgetting what your time is 19:37:31 nirik I think it's in my local time. 19:37:39 pjones nirik: right. 19:37:41 pjones it's in mountain 19:37:49
