Re: [Geany-Devel] OSX ports?

[Jiří Techet]

On Wed, Oct 12, 2016 at 7:19 PM, Chris H  wrote:

>
> Quoting Jiří Techet :
> > Hi Chris,
> Hello Jiří, and thanks for the reply...
>
> >
> > On Mon, Oct 10, 2016 at 8:09 AM, Chris H  wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Quoting Chris H :
> > > Apologies, my mailer truncated my message...
> > > >
> > > > Greetings,
> > > >  Sorry if this has been asked in the past. I've attempted to find
> similar
> > > > topics in the
> > > > list archive. But to no avail. The link on Geany's MailingList page
> > > > (http://news.gmane.org/gmane.editors.geany.devel)
> > > > to search the archives returns 404.
> > > > So my question is; are there any issues building on OSX? I'm
> currently
> > > > maintaining over 100 ports on FreeBSD,
> > > > and use Geany for most of my work, but have recently taken an
> interest in
> > > > OSX, and now feel handicapped without
> > > > it (Geany). While I see that you provide a link to an OSX dmg image
> for
> > > > OSX, It's 64bit only, and is limited to
> > > 10.7 or greater. What I'd like to do, is create a universal binary that
> > > coveres the
> > > whole gambit (10.*). So I guess my question is;
> > > 1) Does Geany compile on OSX out of the box?
> > >
> >
> > No, it doesn't. Geany depends on GTK and transitively on lots of other
> open
> > source libraries which aren't part of OS X. It's not enough to build just
> > Geany - you have to build all these dependencies and add them into the
> > bundle.
> Sure, of course. I just wondered that if I already had all the headers,
> and source
> available (via Homebrew/Xcode), that it might "just work". :-)
>
> >
> > I use
> >
> > https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/GTK+/OSX
> Yea, I checked that out, as well. But already available through Homebrew.
>
> >
> > to build Geany and make a bundle. Geany has also been extended with the
> > "integration" part to better integrate to OS X to support things like
> > global menus etc. The detailed build process is described here:
> >
> > https://github.com/geany/geany-osx
> Caught that.
>
> >
> > OS X 10.7 is by default the oldest version supported by GTK-OSX but I
> > believe there's some way to support older systems too (I believe there
> was
> > some problem with changed binary format and linking). The question is
> > whether supporting such old systems is worth it - OS X 10.7 isn't
> supported
> > even by Apple and doesn't receive security patches and IMO nobody should
> > use it.
> >
> > Building 386 binaries is somehow possible too with GTK-OSX but again, we
> > are talking about 10 year old computers running unsupported operating
> > system versions. Besides, this would about double the bundle size (which
> > currently is about 60MB because all the dependencies have to be inside)
> and
> > in addition I don't have to any 386 Mac to test which is why I decided
> not
> > to support these.
> Sure. I get that (old system...). But IMHO more was lost, than gained in
> the
> the newer versions (of OSX).


What exactly was lost? I'm not aware of any feature removals and the
security of the OS has been improved a lot over the recent years. And from
what I can say, stability too.


> I'm also quite savvy with all the underpinnings
> of OSX, and had no trouble upgrading, or otherwise patching the system to
> be (at least) as safe, and stable, as the latest version. :-)
>

Wow, that's quite a claim. Even though the kernel sources are available, I
seriously doubt you backport the security fixes from the latest kernels and
recompile the old kernel. For all the remaining stuff like system
frameworks and various daemons you'd have to use assembly and somehow write
the security-related patches in it (the only place I saw someone doing this
was Angela Bennett in "The Net" movie). The "at least" part is even more
interesting as you seem to be even improving the system this way.

Unless you do the above, you are pretty much vulnerable to various attacks.


> It also runs *quite* nicely at 64bit. The only issues I've encountered, is
> with applications that claim to be 64bit exclusive, and simply fail to
> start,
> because they're *not*. Firefox, is a good example. But since it's a UB, I
> simply ticked the 32bit box, and it then runs w/o issue.
> >
> >
> > > 2) If not, is there already any work on this I might expand on, rather
> > > than re-invent the wheel?
> > > FWIW I evaluated MacPorts, but found it less than ideal, and upon
> further
> > > evaluation, found
> > > HomeBrew a better candidate.
> > >
> >
> > Neither MacPorts nor HomeBrew are suitable - I tried both. The problem is
> > you don't want to create just a command-line version of the app - you
> want
> > it to behave like a standard GUI application with global menu, clickable
> > icon in the launcher, being able to drag files to the icon to open them
> > etc. These things aren't possible with MacPorts or HomeBrew (in addition
> I
> > believe HomeBrew doesn't have GTK built with Quartz backend and only
> > provides X backend so there's no support of 

Re: [Geany-Devel] OSX ports?

[Chris H]

Quoting Jiří Techet :
> Hi Chris,
Hello Jiří, and thanks for the reply...

> 
> On Mon, Oct 10, 2016 at 8:09 AM, Chris H  wrote:
> 
> >
> > Quoting Chris H :
> > Apologies, my mailer truncated my message...
> > >
> > > Greetings,
> > >  Sorry if this has been asked in the past. I've attempted to find similar
> > > topics in the
> > > list archive. But to no avail. The link on Geany's MailingList page
> > > (http://news.gmane.org/gmane.editors.geany.devel)
> > > to search the archives returns 404.
> > > So my question is; are there any issues building on OSX? I'm currently
> > > maintaining over 100 ports on FreeBSD,
> > > and use Geany for most of my work, but have recently taken an interest in
> > > OSX, and now feel handicapped without
> > > it (Geany). While I see that you provide a link to an OSX dmg image for
> > > OSX, It's 64bit only, and is limited to
> > 10.7 or greater. What I'd like to do, is create a universal binary that
> > coveres the
> > whole gambit (10.*). So I guess my question is;
> > 1) Does Geany compile on OSX out of the box?
> >
> 
> No, it doesn't. Geany depends on GTK and transitively on lots of other open
> source libraries which aren't part of OS X. It's not enough to build just
> Geany - you have to build all these dependencies and add them into the
> bundle.
Sure, of course. I just wondered that if I already had all the headers, and 
source
available (via Homebrew/Xcode), that it might "just work". :-)

> 
> I use
> 
> https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/GTK+/OSX
Yea, I checked that out, as well. But already available through Homebrew.

> 
> to build Geany and make a bundle. Geany has also been extended with the
> "integration" part to better integrate to OS X to support things like
> global menus etc. The detailed build process is described here:
> 
> https://github.com/geany/geany-osx
Caught that.

> 
> OS X 10.7 is by default the oldest version supported by GTK-OSX but I
> believe there's some way to support older systems too (I believe there was
> some problem with changed binary format and linking). The question is
> whether supporting such old systems is worth it - OS X 10.7 isn't supported
> even by Apple and doesn't receive security patches and IMO nobody should
> use it.
> 
> Building 386 binaries is somehow possible too with GTK-OSX but again, we
> are talking about 10 year old computers running unsupported operating
> system versions. Besides, this would about double the bundle size (which
> currently is about 60MB because all the dependencies have to be inside) and
> in addition I don't have to any 386 Mac to test which is why I decided not
> to support these.
Sure. I get that (old system...). But IMHO more was lost, than gained in the
the newer versions (of OSX). I'm also quite savvy with all the underpinnings
of OSX, and had no trouble upgrading, or otherwise patching the system to
be (at least) as safe, and stable, as the latest version. :-)
It also runs *quite* nicely at 64bit. The only issues I've encountered, is
with applications that claim to be 64bit exclusive, and simply fail to start,
because they're *not*. Firefox, is a good example. But since it's a UB, I
simply ticked the 32bit box, and it then runs w/o issue.
> 
> 
> > 2) If not, is there already any work on this I might expand on, rather
> > than re-invent the wheel?
> > FWIW I evaluated MacPorts, but found it less than ideal, and upon further
> > evaluation, found
> > HomeBrew a better candidate.
> >
> 
> Neither MacPorts nor HomeBrew are suitable - I tried both. The problem is
> you don't want to create just a command-line version of the app - you want
> it to behave like a standard GUI application with global menu, clickable
> icon in the launcher, being able to drag files to the icon to open them
> etc. These things aren't possible with MacPorts or HomeBrew (in addition I
> believe HomeBrew doesn't have GTK built with Quartz backend and only
> provides X backend so there's no support of retina displays).
I didn't look to see when it was added, but the (OSX GUI) applications I've
built with it so, all support the Quartz available, and running on my box.
I don't want to sound the least bit argumentative, but I've already built
several OSX GUI's through Homebrew, and they all provide the standard
OSX dialogs, and Menu options. Maybe things have changed since you've
last tried it? :-)

> 
> For MacPorts Geany version there's a wiki page here
> 
> https://wiki.geany.org/howtos/osx/running
> 
> There's no similar description for HomeBrew but from what I tried, it runs
> fine but with the mentioned X backend and all the limitations above.
I've cobbled up a Homebrew "formulae" for Geany. I imagine I'll have
additional work to do to it, before it's "just right", and works on every
version of OSX. Not to mention, I come from an Assembler,  C, Perl,
JavaScript, CSS, Shell, background. So Ruby is new territory for me. But
I'll run it up the flag pole, and report my findings. Hopefully, you, or
someone else on 

Re: [Geany-Devel] OSX ports?

[Jiří Techet]

Hi Chris,

On Mon, Oct 10, 2016 at 8:09 AM, Chris H  wrote:

>
> Quoting Chris H :
> Apologies, my mailer truncated my message...
> >
> > Greetings,
> >  Sorry if this has been asked in the past. I've attempted to find similar
> > topics in the
> > list archive. But to no avail. The link on Geany's MailingList page
> > (http://news.gmane.org/gmane.editors.geany.devel)
> > to search the archives returns 404.
> > So my question is; are there any issues building on OSX? I'm currently
> > maintaining over 100 ports on FreeBSD,
> > and use Geany for most of my work, but have recently taken an interest in
> > OSX, and now feel handicapped without
> > it (Geany). While I see that you provide a link to an OSX dmg image for
> > OSX, It's 64bit only, and is limited to
> 10.7 or greater. What I'd like to do, is create a universal binary that
> coveres the
> whole gambit (10.*). So I guess my question is;
> 1) Does Geany compile on OSX out of the box?
>

No, it doesn't. Geany depends on GTK and transitively on lots of other open
source libraries which aren't part of OS X. It's not enough to build just
Geany - you have to build all these dependencies and add them into the
bundle.

I use

https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/GTK+/OSX

to build Geany and make a bundle. Geany has also been extended with the
"integration" part to better integrate to OS X to support things like
global menus etc. The detailed build process is described here:

https://github.com/geany/geany-osx

OS X 10.7 is by default the oldest version supported by GTK-OSX but I
believe there's some way to support older systems too (I believe there was
some problem with changed binary format and linking). The question is
whether supporting such old systems is worth it - OS X 10.7 isn't supported
even by Apple and doesn't receive security patches and IMO nobody should
use it.

Building 386 binaries is somehow possible too with GTK-OSX but again, we
are talking about 10 year old computers running unsupported operating
system versions. Besides, this would about double the bundle size (which
currently is about 60MB because all the dependencies have to be inside) and
in addition I don't have to any 386 Mac to test which is why I decided not
to support these.


> 2) If not, is there already any work on this I might expand on, rather
> than re-invent the wheel?
> FWIW I evaluated MacPorts, but found it less than ideal, and upon further
> evaluation, found
> HomeBrew a better candidate.
>

Neither MacPorts nor HomeBrew are suitable - I tried both. The problem is
you don't want to create just a command-line version of the app - you want
it to behave like a standard GUI application with global menu, clickable
icon in the launcher, being able to drag files to the icon to open them
etc. These things aren't possible with MacPorts or HomeBrew (in addition I
believe HomeBrew doesn't have GTK built with Quartz backend and only
provides X backend so there's no support of retina displays).

For MacPorts Geany version there's a wiki page here

https://wiki.geany.org/howtos/osx/running

There's no similar description for HomeBrew but from what I tried, it runs
fine but with the mentioned X backend and all the limitations above.

Cheers,

Jiri
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Re: [Geany-Devel] OSX ports?

[Lex Trotman]

On 10 October 2016 at 16:09, Chris H  wrote:
>
> Quoting Chris H :
> Apologies, my mailer truncated my message...
>>
>> Greetings,
>>  Sorry if this has been asked in the past. I've attempted to find similar
>> topics in the
>> list archive. But to no avail. The link on Geany's MailingList page
>> (http://news.gmane.org/gmane.editors.geany.devel)
>> to search the archives returns 404.
>> So my question is; are there any issues building on OSX? I'm currently
>> maintaining over 100 ports on FreeBSD,
>> and use Geany for most of my work, but have recently taken an interest in
>> OSX, and now feel handicapped without
>> it (Geany). While I see that you provide a link to an OSX dmg image for
>> OSX, It's 64bit only, and is limited to
> 10.7 or greater. What I'd like to do, is create a universal binary that 
> coveres the
> whole gambit (10.*). So I guess my question is;
> 1) Does Geany compile on OSX out of the box?
> 2) If not, is there already any work on this I might expand on, rather than 
> re-invent the wheel?
> FWIW I evaluated MacPorts, but found it less than ideal, and upon further 
> evaluation, found
> HomeBrew a better candidate.

Have to leave those detailed questiosn for the OSX maintainer.

On gmane, its front page says:

"We're going through a complete rebuild, so some things are very
broken. Please see our blog at http://home.gmane.org/ for news."

and most of the editors pages are broken ATM.

>
> Thank you for all your time, and consideration.
>
> --Chris
> 
>
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Re: [Geany-Devel] OSX ports?

[Chris H]

Quoting Chris H :
Apologies, my mailer truncated my message...
> 
> Greetings,
>  Sorry if this has been asked in the past. I've attempted to find similar
> topics in the
> list archive. But to no avail. The link on Geany's MailingList page
> (http://news.gmane.org/gmane.editors.geany.devel)
> to search the archives returns 404.
> So my question is; are there any issues building on OSX? I'm currently
> maintaining over 100 ports on FreeBSD,
> and use Geany for most of my work, but have recently taken an interest in
> OSX, and now feel handicapped without
> it (Geany). While I see that you provide a link to an OSX dmg image for
> OSX, It's 64bit only, and is limited to
10.7 or greater. What I'd like to do, is create a universal binary that coveres 
the
whole gambit (10.*). So I guess my question is;
1) Does Geany compile on OSX out of the box?
2) If not, is there already any work on this I might expand on, rather than 
re-invent the wheel?
FWIW I evaluated MacPorts, but found it less than ideal, and upon further 
evaluation, found
HomeBrew a better candidate.

Thank you for all your time, and consideration.

--Chris


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Re: [Geany-Devel] OSX ports?

[Lex Trotman]

The link on the Geany website seems to work
http://www.geany.org/Download/Releases

Cheers
Lex

On 10 October 2016 at 16:00, Chris H  wrote:
>
> Greetings,
>  Sorry if this has been asked in the past. I've attempted to find similar 
> topics in the
> list archive. But to no avail. The link on Geany's MailingList page 
> (http://news.gmane.org/gmane.editors.geany.devel)
> to search the archives returns 404.
> So my question is; are there any issues building on OSX? I'm currently 
> maintaining over 100 ports on FreeBSD,
> and use Geany for most of my work, but have recently taken an interest in 
> OSX, and now feel handicapped without
> it (Geany). While I see that you provide a link to an OSX dmg image for OSX, 
> It's 64bit only, and is limited to
>
> 
>
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