Re: OLPC: Open Organized Transparent
[sorry to resurrect] On Fri, May 16, 2008 at 07:53:11PM -0400, Garrett Goebel wrote: Going back through the archives, I have to admit that as often as not the smack talk came from someone without a laptop.org email address. But here are some examples of offensive, dismissive, and unanswered emails: http://lists.laptop.org/pipermail/devel/2008-May/013770.html You're on crack, Bert [...] Didn't we go over this already? I found this a very healthy (and sometimes amusing) email (sub-)thread, especially the way it was politely, publicly wrapped up. I didn't have to do an exegesis of the sub-thread to understand the perspectives involved nor the clarifying, final result[1,2]. More of this, IMHO. Martin 1. http://lists.laptop.org/pipermail/devel/2008-May/013850.html 2. http://lists.laptop.org/pipermail/devel/2008-May/013853.html pgpPeXvCJEZdz.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
New update.1 build 705
http://pilgrim.laptop.org/~pilgrim/olpc/streams/update.1/build705 Changes in build 705 from build: 704 Size delta: 0.00M -olpc-utils 0.73-1.olpc2 +olpc-utils 0.74-1.olpc2 -xkeyboard-config 1.1-17.20071130cvs.olpc2 +xkeyboard-config 1.1-19.20071130cvs.olpc2 --- Changes for xkeyboard-config 1.1-19.20071130cvs.olpc2 from 1.1-17.20071130cvs.olpc2 --- + xkeyboard-config-olpc-ca-fr-typofix.patch: Updated to fix a new set of issues + Add xkeyboard-config-olpc-tr.patch for Turkish keyboard layout -- This mail was automatically generated See http://dev.laptop.org/~rwh/announcer/update.1-pkgs.html for aggregate logs See http://dev.laptop.org/~rwh/announcer/joyride_vs_update1.html for a comparison ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: OLPC: Open Organized Transparent
Well, since I'm apparently the one fingered as smart, holier than thou, and derisive, let me publicly apologize for being short-tempered at times. I do get frustrated when I see the same issues pop up over and over again: remember there are many many more of you out there than there are here at 1cc, and in order to be successful we at OLPC *must* allocate our time wisely. Sometimes that means I'm rather short and/or terse. A related issue is when people loudly insist that OLPC solve their personal problem *right now*. Again, we have tens of thousands of machines in the field now, and thousands more every day. You personally may care about, say, Java in your browser, but it is not a priority for OLPC, by which I mean the 3 people I sit next to. It is not part of the software included in our large scale deployments. By all means work on the problem, and we will certainly help you publicize the solution you come up with as much as we are able, but there are not resources to devote to every feature request. We have to prioritize. I have made many efforts in the past to ask for help and publicize issues for which OLPC would like help but can't dedicate any developer resources. Statements such as: Without naming names, though I was excited to help at first, that kind of insider-outsider issue made me lose interest as a direct contributor fairly early. sadden me. There *are* a few areas where we're actually working on a particular solution, but in general our feature set far outweighs our resources: we're always interested in working code, even if it's not exactly how we'd do it. But I'm afraid the following sentence illustrates the crux of the problem: In the end my opinion won't really matter, so why waste my breath? It is true. Opinions don't really matter for much. There are less than ten full-time OLPC developers, it's not like we're some big company. We're working flat out to make our Peru and Uruguay deployments work at the moment; we don't really have time to chew the fat. Your opinions matter much more if they are backed up with working code, or with a community of volunteers to attack some task, or a well-written report. We get a lot of opinions. Many of them are, frankly, misdirected. For example: I think the OLPC's decision to sell XO's only in large quantities and only top down to educational institutions is wrong. I have zero control over that. Generally speaking, such discussions are out-of-scope for [EMAIL PROTECTED], which is a developer's list, not a business-models-and-strategy list. You should be making these types of arguments to OLPC's board, say, and they would expect a much more rigorous argument, backed up with numbers and dollar amounts. To be honest with you, it's not an effective use of my time to debate OLPC's business model. But if you want the actual answers, http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Presentations is a good start. OK, in summary, I'm sorry I can't just mumble some comforting platitudes here. But the people I work with *are* passionately concerned with creating a community around the OLPC, and we are *also* overworked. The [EMAIL PROTECTED] list is likely to remain rigorously focused on implementation and working code, although there are places like IAEP which welcome more blue-sky discussion. In that spirit, here is a list of development tasks that OLPC doesn't have resources for, but that we'd love help with: * Java in the browser. Sure, trac #6465 and similar. We also have people who would like a more convenient way to install Adobe flash and other plugins. This can be done by making a slightly modified version of the Browse activity, but no one has done it yet. * http://lists.laptop.org/pipermail/devel/2008-May/013696.html * a long list at the end of http://lists.laptop.org/pipermail/devel/2008-May/014539.html Finally, in response to your numbered points: 1) http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Installing_Debian_as_an_upgrade http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Edubuntu 2) http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Developers_program (also NN announced a new G1G1 program during http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Presentations/May_2008_Country_Workshop ) 3) http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Main_Page and Microsoft was also discussed during one of the first three talks at http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Presentations/May_2008_Country_Workshop I'm sure I haven't said all the things you'd have liked me to say, but I've done my best to be open and honest here. Thank you for starting this discussion. --scott -- ( http://cscott.net/ ) ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: OLPC: Open Organized Transparent
On Tue, May 27, 2008 at 07:38:47PM -0400, C. Scott Ananian wrote: A related issue is when people loudly insist that OLPC solve their personal problem *right now*. Again, we have tens of thousands of machines in the field now, and thousands more every day. [...] +1 Well put. My opinion is that developers who wish to contribute can ignore the dissenting opinions and concentrate on coding in areas they can contribute. p.s. a @laptop.org address does not imply I am paid by OLPC. It is an address that lets me participate more directly, that's all. -- James Cameronmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://quozl.netrek.org/ ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
New joyride build 1992
http://xs-dev.laptop.org/~cscott/olpc/streams/joyride/build1992 Changes in build 1992 from build: 1989 Size delta: 0.00M -tzdata 2008b-1.fc7 +tzdata 2008b-3.fc7 --- Changes for tzdata 2008b-3.fc7 from 2008b-1.fc7 --- + Morocco introduces DST + Pakistan introduces DST -- This mail was automatically generated See http://dev.laptop.org/~rwh/announcer/joyride-pkgs.html for aggregate logs See http://dev.laptop.org/~rwh/announcer/joyride_vs_update1.html for a comparison ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
New faster build 1992
http://xs-dev.laptop.org/~cscott/olpc/streams/faster/build1992 Changes in build 1992 from build: 1989 Size delta: 0.00M -tzdata 2008b-1.fc7 +tzdata 2008b-3.fc7 --- Changes for tzdata 2008b-3.fc7 from 2008b-1.fc7 --- + Morocco introduces DST + Pakistan introduces DST -- This mail was automatically generated See http://dev.laptop.org/~rwh/announcer/faster-pkgs.html for aggregate logs See http://dev.laptop.org/~rwh/announcer/joyride_vs_update1.html for a comparison ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: OLPC: Open Organized Transparent
On Tue, May 27, 2008 at 8:05 PM, James Cameron [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: p.s. a @laptop.org address does not imply I am paid by OLPC. It is an address that lets me participate more directly, that's all. Let me try to head off another charge of cabalism here before it is alleged: there is no special privilege granted with a @laptop.org address. You don't get invited to secret OLPC planning meetings if you've got a @laptop.org address. There's no secret handshake or secret priority given to the features that scratch your itch. Rather, we have in the past given @laptop.org addresses to members of the community who have made significant contributions to OLPC, both as recognition of their work as well as out of sheer laziness on our part: it's a lot easier to just type [EMAIL PROTECTED] than to try to remember the personal domains of all the non-OLPC contributors. Quozl's participate more directly means that he's been a contributor since the first A-test boards (far long than I've been involved with OLPC) and he's earned a spot as a go-to guy when we need help. (See http://wiki.laptop.org/index.php?title=User:Quozloldid=77199 and http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Special:Contributions/Quozl and (my favorite) http://wiki.laptop.org/go/MotionDetection). --scott -- ( http://cscott.net/ ) ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: OLPC: Open Organized Transparent
On Wed, May 28, 2008 at 11:38 AM, C. Scott Ananian [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Your opinions matter much more if they are backed up with working code, or with a community of volunteers to attack some task, or a well-written report. We get a lot of opinions. Many of them are, frankly, misdirected. Scott said it best. There's barely a handful of us, a ton of laptops out there that are our real interest. We do need help - unglamorous testing, bugfixing, development. Not that we don't have flaws or that we don't make mistakes - get used to it, there'll be plenty of both, specially since we are breaking new ground, and we're pretty stretched. If you can accept our limitations (and our occasional apology), we'll accept yours, and we might even work together towards a goal bigger than any one of us. cheers, m -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- School Server Architect - ask interesting questions - don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
New update.1 build 706
http://pilgrim.laptop.org/~pilgrim/olpc/streams/update.1/build706 Changes in build 706 from build: 705 Size delta: 0.13M -kernel 2.6.22-20080312.2.olpc.f3687aa7e09fd65 +kernel 2.6.22-20080523.1.olpc.28f4cb6e780db07 -libertas-usb8388-firmware 2:5.110.22.p1-1.fc7 +libertas-usb8388-firmware 2:5.110.22.p14-1.fc7 -xorg-x11-drv-evdev 1.2.0-2norel.olpc2 +xorg-x11-drv-evdev 1.2.0-3norel.olpc2 -xorg-x11-server-Xorg 1.4-8.olpc2 +xorg-x11-server-Xorg 1.4-9.olpc2 --- Changes for kernel 2.6.22-20080523.1.olpc.28f4cb6e780db07 from 2.6.22-20080312.2.olpc.f3687aa7e09fd65 --- + Patch the kernel, xorg-x11-server, and xorg-x11-drv-evdev packages + Kernel source code taken from the 'stable' branch of + Thanks to Blake Setlow for writing all the code and for pushing me to --- Changes for xorg-x11-drv-evdev 1.2.0-3norel.olpc2 from 1.2.0-2norel.olpc2 --- + Patch the kernel, xorg-x11-server, and xorg-x11-drv-evdev packages + Kernel source code taken from the 'stable' branch of + Thanks to Blake Setlow for writing all the code and for pushing me to --- Changes for xorg-x11-server-Xorg 1.4-9.olpc2 from 1.4-8.olpc2 --- + Patch the kernel, xorg-x11-server, and xorg-x11-drv-evdev packages + Kernel source code taken from the 'stable' branch of + Thanks to Blake Setlow for writing all the code and for pushing me to -- This mail was automatically generated See http://dev.laptop.org/~rwh/announcer/update.1-pkgs.html for aggregate logs See http://dev.laptop.org/~rwh/announcer/joyride_vs_update1.html for a comparison ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: OLPC: Open Organized Transparent
On Tue, May 27, 2008 at 6:47 PM, C. Scott Ananian [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, May 27, 2008 at 8:05 PM, James Cameron [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: p.s. a @laptop.org address does not imply I am paid by OLPC. It is an address that lets me participate more directly, that's all. Let me try to head off another charge of cabalism here before it is alleged: there is no special privilege granted with a @laptop.org address. You don't get invited to secret OLPC planning meetings if you've got a @laptop.org address. There's no secret handshake or secret priority given to the features that scratch your itch. There is one exception. The OLPC group on LinkedIn requires an @laptop.org address, for no obvious reason. I find that unsatisfactory. But as a non-member, I can't complain to the group administrator. Rather, we have in the past given @laptop.org addresses to members of the community who have made significant contributions to OLPC, both as recognition of their work as well as out of sheer laziness on our part: it's a lot easier to just type [EMAIL PROTECTED] than to try to remember the personal domains of all the non-OLPC contributors. So there is no regular process for asking for one, then? I think I ought to have one, as (for example) apparently the only person involved in OLPC who knows the difference between Russian and Ukrainian keyboard layouts. More seriously, I discovered that there were no localization projects for Haiti and Cambodia when deployment plans for G1G1 were announced, so I created them and recruited localizers, and now I am working on planning and recruiting for all of the deployment issues that OLPC has done nothing about, such as electricity. Please talk to me if you see management holes in the OLPC program, and don't bother our hard-working developers with problems they can't do anything about. Quozl's participate more directly means that he's been a contributor since the first A-test boards (far long than I've been involved with OLPC) and he's earned a spot as a go-to guy when we need help. (See http://wiki.laptop.org/index.php?title=User:Quozloldid=77199 and http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Special:Contributions/Quozl and (my favorite) http://wiki.laptop.org/go/MotionDetection). And read the Alan Dean Foster novel Quozl, too. I showed Foster and many others an XO at the BayCon2007 Science Fiction convention, and he thinks what we are doing is totally wonderful. --scott -- ( http://cscott.net/ ) ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel -- Edward Cherlin End Poverty at a Profit by teaching children business http://www.EarthTreasury.org/ The best way to predict the future is to invent it.--Alan Kay ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: OLPC: Open Organized Transparent
On Tue, May 27, 2008 at 08:59:03PM -0700, Edward Cherlin wrote: And read the Alan Dean Foster novel Quozl, too. I showed Foster and many others an XO at the BayCon2007 Science Fiction convention, and he thinks what we are doing is totally wonderful. Mild panic. Hope he doesn't mind me continuing to use the term. ;-} I like his books though. -- James Cameronmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://quozl.netrek.org/ ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Software Status Meeting Tomorrow @ 1400 EDT, 1800 UTC in #olpc-meeting on freenode
Let's talk tomorrow about #7014, build 706 (which everyone ought to test; olpc-update -f update.1-706), and what we should take away from the fact that Blake and Ricardo were the only people who contributed patches/packages for inclusion in our bugfix release. Please reply to this mail with any other subjects that you would like us to discuss. I'll see if we can fit them in. Michael ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
[Server-devel] Problem registering a admin user for jabber.
When I run ejabberdctl ejabberd register admin schoolserver.org admin I get Can't register user [EMAIL PROTECTED] at node [EMAIL PROTECTED]: not_allowed? Mike Westfield ___ Server-devel mailing list Server-devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/server-devel
Re: [Server-devel] Problem registering a admin user for jabber.
The host FQDN in the ejabberd.cfg must exactly match the [EMAIL PROTECTED] used with ejabberdctl register statement. Both must exactly match what the server returns with hostname -F. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael J. Westfield Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 3:36 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Server-devel] Problem registering a admin user for jabber. When I run ejabberdctl ejabberd register admin schoolserver.org admin I get Can't register user [EMAIL PROTECTED] at node [EMAIL PROTECTED]: not_allowed? Mike Westfield ___ Server-devel mailing list Server-devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/server-devel ___ Server-devel mailing list Server-devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/server-devel
