Re: Flash tests
2008/9/16 Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi All, We need to characterize the performance and support of Flash in release 8.2. Technical people in Uruguay did a tests a while ago on the Flash games at this web site: http://www.minijuegos.com/ They used the Gnash shipped with 656 (0.8.1-1) and a Flash plugin (9.0.124-0). They tested Castle Wars: http://www.minijuegos.com/juegos/jugar.php?id=5552 Freekick Fusion http://www.minijuegos.com/juegos/html/index.php?id=4570 Hulk Central Smahdown http://www.minijuegos.com/juegos/jugar.php?id=6769 I believe those were chosen as examples of Flash capabilities. They weren't necessarily things the ministry of education wanted to use in class :-) In all three Gnash failed completely and Flash ran slowly. If anyone has time to try those again with the 8.2 candidate build I would be very interested in the results. Any other comments, URLs or examples about our Flash support are appreciated. Just tried the Flash 10 RC and it's working much better. Should we ask Uruguay to repeat their tests with that version? Regards, Tomeu ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Project hosting request: xo-lambda
On Wed, Sep 24, 2008 at 9:04 PM, Bobby Powers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: very cool! On 25 Sep 2008, at 04:10, Eben Eliason wrote: Agreed! I have been secretly wanting to play around with lisp myself, so I look forward to playing with this a lot. *grin* Tx guys! As a small nitpick, I'd recommend dropping 'XO' from the name. While I just discovered that I omitted this detail while discussing naming in the HIG, it doesn't really provide any useful information in the activity name itself. Moreover, since Sugar is quickly becoming available on various distributions, it's incorrect to tie Sugar activities to the XO itself, which is the name of the OLPC specific hardware. It would still be fine, of course, to refer to activities (especially those that are brethren of applications already found on other OSes) as, perhaps, Sugar Lambda to differentiate them in the public image, but even then it doesn't seem necessary to include it in the activity name itself. =) Good points, thank you Eben. Lambda activity it is! Shall I resubmit a hosting request with the name change ? PS. I'm somewhat unfamiliar with the project hosting process, but would there be a good place to introduce this type of information, so we can make things as simple as possible? Should we just mention this guideline/requirement on the wiki page (http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Project_hosting) or the application? I think the name is the only item on the application which needs to adhere to a guideline. However, we might link to the full HIG from that page anyway, and/or include a link to it in the project hosting response, to get budding developers pointed in the right direction. I would have caught it if it was mentioned on the Project_hosting wiki page. - a ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Server-devel] XS_0_4 install
Today the behavior has changed a little. First, the network problem. The 'other host' problem turns out to be a newbie error on my part. The router was configured as 172.18.0.1 but labeled as 172.18.0.3. We have reconfigured the router to be 172.18.0.3 and the XO has access to the internet via the schoolserver! The ejabberd problem persists; however, I think it may also be a newbie problem. I'll try to keep you posted. Yours, Tony Martin Langhoff wrote: On Wed, Sep 24, 2008 at 11:04 PM, Tony Anderson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: started ejabberd: chkconfig --level 345 ejabberd on service ejabberd start and attempted to register admin: ejabberdctl ejabberd register admin schoolserver.schoolnet.gov.np admin This failed with a message: RPC failed on the node [EMAIL PROTECTED]: nodedown That's strange. The procedure is right, perhaps something went wrong with the domain_config step? Does the /etc/ejabberd/ejabberd.cfg file show the correct domain? The command service ejabberd status gets the same error (on timeout); however, ps -aux shows an ejabberd daemon. I then tried to set up the networks manually: ifcfg-eth0 was modified to use a static address (192.168.5.44). This seems to work ok. Good. ifcfg-eth1 was modified by adding BOOTPROTO=static. This gives an error: Error, some other host already uses 172.18.0.1. Is that interface connected to anything? Any other host that would be answering for that ip address? The error you mention is from doing an 'arping' to the address - cheers, m ___ Server-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/server-devel
Re: [sugar] Supporting desktop applications, extending the EWMH spec
On Fri, Sep 19, 2008 at 10:37 PM, C. Scott Ananian [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My feeling is that metacity will be hard to upstream patches to, and it would be more work to get working 'right', since it's pretty much designed *not* to be extensible. I tend to think metacity upstream might take sane patches to address this use case. (I doubt they would add a UI preference to turn the mode on and off, but we don't need that). The netbook Ubuntu guys are trying to go down that way: jdub njpatel: btw, have you considered adding a maximus mode to metacity? njpatel jdub: yep there are some patches, but the initial idea was not to change from stock hardy too much. Anyway, the performance would be better if the maximising were done in Metacity, so I'm going to try and clean those up and get them accepted when I get some time Marco ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
New joyride build 2483
http://xs-dev.laptop.org/~cscott/olpc/streams/joyride/build2483 Changes in build 2483 from build: 2481 Size delta: 0.00M -sugar 0.82.8-1.olpc3 +sugar 0.82.8-2.olpc3 -- This mail was automatically generated See http://dev.laptop.org/~rwh/announcer/joyride-pkgs.html for aggregate logs See http://dev.laptop.org/~rwh/announcer/joyride_vs_update1.html for a comparison ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Testing server-based collaboration
What server is available for testing collaboration? I erroneously filed this ticket http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/8643 because an outage of xochat.org coincided with my upgrading to build 763. But I do not know any other suitable server since olpc.collabora.co.uk became unusable. Thanks, - Bert - ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [sugar] [Grassroots-l] G1G1 Pre-installed Activities Request for Help Testing
On Sun, Sep 21, 2008 at 1:12 PM, Sameer Verma [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sat, Sep 20, 2008 at 6:00 PM, Seth Woodworth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sat, Sep 20, 2008 at 12:46 PM, Walter Bender [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In fact, there is a great deal of data from the field in the form of the activity packs that Peru, Uruguay, et al. developed. These collections have been vetted and tested extensively and have a built-in community of support. They are learning-centric collections, but presumably, those G1G1 purchasers who are interested in other pursuits will run Fedora/GNOME or XP. -walter I'm not convinced that they are well-tested. They included News Reader, which hasn't worked for the last several releases. That doesn't suggest to me that their activities went through any kind of extensive testing before deployment. They have since been tested in the field by children. I *haven't* seen much feedback from kids yet. At least not from South American and not any broad spectrum. ---Seth In an attempt to make the decision-making process more unbiased (or at least more multi-criteria) I've put up a basic spreadsheet for a scoring matrix at http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=p_Xhb6KcXLyEViA50CnCaDghl=en In the spreadsheet, there are three main components. Column B has factors such as stability, performance, etc to assess against. I just made these up, but feel free to make your own. The weights (column C) essentially defines the importance of each factor as a percentage of a total of 100%. The rest of the columns are for each activity. Feel free to add your own. Score them on a scale of 1 to 10. Each score gets weighted and you'll see totals at the bottom. Sort for the totals in Descending order and skim off the top 10. There you have it. Multi-criteria decision-making made simple. Sameer -- Dr. Sameer Verma, Ph.D. Associate Professor of Information Systems San Francisco State University San Francisco CA 94132 USA http://verma.sfsu.edu/ http://opensource.sfsu.edu/ I've added a new set of factors to the spreadsheet which now reflects the list from http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Creating_an_activity#Include_your_Activity_in_the_core.3F This list is row 41 and below. Before I go on and add more to it, is anyone interested in building this further? Sameer -- Dr. Sameer Verma, Ph.D. Associate Professor of Information Systems San Francisco State University San Francisco CA 94132 USA http://verma.sfsu.edu/ http://opensource.sfsu.edu/ ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [sugar] [Grassroots-l] G1G1 Pre-installed Activities Request for Help Testing
On Thu, Sep 25, 2008 at 12:04 PM, Sameer Verma [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sun, Sep 21, 2008 at 1:12 PM, Sameer Verma [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sat, Sep 20, 2008 at 6:00 PM, Seth Woodworth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sat, Sep 20, 2008 at 12:46 PM, Walter Bender [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In fact, there is a great deal of data from the field in the form of the activity packs that Peru, Uruguay, et al. developed. These collections have been vetted and tested extensively and have a built-in community of support. They are learning-centric collections, but presumably, those G1G1 purchasers who are interested in other pursuits will run Fedora/GNOME or XP. -walter I'm not convinced that they are well-tested. They included News Reader, which hasn't worked for the last several releases. That doesn't suggest to me that their activities went through any kind of extensive testing before deployment. They have since been tested in the field by children. I *haven't* seen much feedback from kids yet. At least not from South American and not any broad spectrum. ---Seth In an attempt to make the decision-making process more unbiased (or at least more multi-criteria) I've put up a basic spreadsheet for a scoring matrix at http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=p_Xhb6KcXLyEViA50CnCaDghl=en In the spreadsheet, there are three main components. Column B has factors such as stability, performance, etc to assess against. I just made these up, but feel free to make your own. The weights (column C) essentially defines the importance of each factor as a percentage of a total of 100%. The rest of the columns are for each activity. Feel free to add your own. Score them on a scale of 1 to 10. Each score gets weighted and you'll see totals at the bottom. Sort for the totals in Descending order and skim off the top 10. There you have it. Multi-criteria decision-making made simple. Sameer -- Dr. Sameer Verma, Ph.D. Associate Professor of Information Systems San Francisco State University San Francisco CA 94132 USA http://verma.sfsu.edu/ http://opensource.sfsu.edu/ I've added a new set of factors to the spreadsheet which now reflects the list from http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Creating_an_activity#Include_your_Activity_in_the_core.3F This list is row 41 and below. Before I go on and add more to it, is anyone interested in building this further? BTW, the spreadsheet is at http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=p_Xhb6KcXLyEViA50CnCaDghl=en Sameer ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: G1G1 Pre-installed Activities Request for Help Testing
Am 25.09.2008 um 10:06 schrieb Sameer Verma: On Thu, Sep 25, 2008 at 12:04 PM, Sameer Verma [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sun, Sep 21, 2008 at 1:12 PM, Sameer Verma [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In an attempt to make the decision-making process more unbiased (or at least more multi-criteria) I've put up a basic spreadsheet for a scoring matrix at http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=p_Xhb6KcXLyEViA50CnCaDghl=en In the spreadsheet, there are three main components. Column B has factors such as stability, performance, etc to assess against. I just made these up, but feel free to make your own. The weights (column C) essentially defines the importance of each factor as a percentage of a total of 100%. The rest of the columns are for each activity. Feel free to add your own. Score them on a scale of 1 to 10. Each score gets weighted and you'll see totals at the bottom. Sort for the totals in Descending order and skim off the top 10. There you have it. Multi-criteria decision-making made simple. Sameer I've added a new set of factors to the spreadsheet which now reflects the list from http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Creating_an_activity#Include_your_Activity_in_the_core.3F This list is row 41 and below. Before I go on and add more to it, is anyone interested in building this further? BTW, the spreadsheet is at http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=p_Xhb6KcXLyEViA50CnCaDghl=en So by that metric, Terminal is the best activity. Huh? - Bert - ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
New joyride build 2484
http://xs-dev.laptop.org/~cscott/olpc/streams/joyride/build2484 Changes in build 2484 from build: 2483 Size delta: 0.00M -sugar-update-control 0.15-1 +sugar-update-control 0.16-1 --- Changes for sugar-update-control 0.16-1 from 0.15-1 --- + Filter out library/library.info when it's not in the root directory -- This mail was automatically generated See http://dev.laptop.org/~rwh/announcer/joyride-pkgs.html for aggregate logs See http://dev.laptop.org/~rwh/announcer/joyride_vs_update1.html for a comparison ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
suggestions for children with disabilities
Are there any suggestions or activities that address the needs of children with disabilities? For instance, at the moment we have a request for assistance with students with visual impairments. ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [sugar] G1G1 Pre-installed Activities Request for Help Testing
BTW, the spreadsheet is at http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=p_Xhb6KcXLyEViA50CnCaDghl=en So by that metric, Terminal is the best activity. Huh? Yeah. Do these numbers mean anything? What is the point of averaging unrelated numbers? Averaging lines of code score and usability score almost looks like an idea of an innumerate. Teaching kids how to treat these scores properly would be a great lesson. -- Yoshiki ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [sugar] G1G1 Pre-installed Activities Request for Help Testing
On Thu, Sep 25, 2008 at 12:39 PM, Yoshiki Ohshima [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: BTW, the spreadsheet is at http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=p_Xhb6KcXLyEViA50CnCaDghl=en So by that metric, Terminal is the best activity. Huh? Yeah. Do these numbers mean anything? What is the point of averaging unrelated numbers? Averaging lines of code score and usability score almost looks like an idea of an innumerate. Teaching kids how to treat these scores properly would be a great lesson. -- Yoshiki ___ Sugar mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar The numbers are just fillers. They don't mean anything. The idea is for you guys to fill in numbers based on a metric and not because its popular on the list. Feel free to edit as needed. Sameer -- Dr. Sameer Verma, Ph.D. Associate Professor of Information Systems San Francisco State University San Francisco CA 94132 USA http://verma.sfsu.edu/ http://opensource.sfsu.edu/ ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [sugar] G1G1 Pre-installed Activities Request for Help Testing
On Thu, Sep 25, 2008 at 2:37 PM, Sameer Verma [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, Sep 25, 2008 at 12:39 PM, Yoshiki Ohshima [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: BTW, the spreadsheet is at http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=p_Xhb6KcXLyEViA50CnCaDghl=en So by that metric, Terminal is the best activity. Huh? Yeah. Do these numbers mean anything? What is the point of averaging unrelated numbers? Averaging lines of code score and usability score almost looks like an idea of an innumerate. Teaching kids how to treat these scores properly would be a great lesson. -- Yoshiki ___ Sugar mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar The numbers are just fillers. They don't mean anything. The idea is for you guys to fill in numbers based on a metric and not because its popular on the list. Feel free to edit as needed. Sameer Additionally, the list of factors on that spreadsheet were also out of thin air. If you look at Row 41, you'll see the list of factors from G1G1. The weights can be adjusted as long as they add up to 100% I hope this is making sense. Sameer -- Dr. Sameer Verma, Ph.D. Associate Professor of Information Systems San Francisco State University San Francisco CA 94132 USA http://verma.sfsu.edu/ http://opensource.sfsu.edu/ ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
New joyride build 2485
http://xs-dev.laptop.org/~cscott/olpc/streams/joyride/build2485 Changes in build 2485 from build: 2484 Size delta: 0.00M -sugar 0.82.8-2.olpc3 +sugar 0.82.9-1.olpc3 -- This mail was automatically generated See http://dev.laptop.org/~rwh/announcer/joyride-pkgs.html for aggregate logs See http://dev.laptop.org/~rwh/announcer/joyride_vs_update1.html for a comparison ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Another pass through some basic Activity test results
Here's a set of basic Activity test results for build 8.2-763, hope the ASCI art doesn't get too mangled by the list server (need to view with a fixed width font). The Activities are in no specific order, and sorry if I missed out yours, but I wanted to post today incase it helps with looming/ongoing release decisions. I do want to note something I think is new in 8.2-763 since my previous tests, 5 times during the run through below the XO became extremely sluggish, initially I just thought it was the poorly performing Activity, but checking top in 4 cases I could the sugar shell process eating 30-50% of CPU but apparently doing nothing (was not connected to a jabber server), and in the other case I had 2 rainbow processes eating up 45% cpu each (though the Sugar UI showed no Activity instances were running). I am now retesting to try and catch the bad behaviour as it happens. Just wanted to warn testers to keep an eye on top, if things feel slow, you might have a hung-up process burning cycles and need to ctrl-alt-escape. build 8.2-763 Activity name | Could start . = success | | Could stop (all must work ctrl-q alt-esc, toolbar, Frame) - = N/A | | | Sound x = fail| | | | Journal entry ? = unknown | | | | | Useful resume * = see note| | | | | | Picks-up Journal entry name change while active | | | | | | | Names Frame palette to match the resumed title | | | | | | | | License entry in activity.info | | | | | | | | | Using bundle_id in activity.info | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Browse-98 . . . . . x x . x Words-3 . . . . x x . x . Could keep a history of words searched for Chat-47 . . - . . x x . . Some subtle sound for arival and departure would be very useful. Firefox-6 . . - x x x x x x Sugar icon times out, left with grey circle in the Frame activity instance area. Log-14 . . - . x x x . x Scratch-11 . . . x x x x * x Missing bundle_id, and license .info entry is some text that points to some URL. Bounce-6 . . * . . x x x * No sound, not sure if that's a bug or is as intended. Incorrect bundle_id string. Bridge-2 . . x . x x x . . Moon-6 . . - . . x x . . News Reader-24 . . - . x x . x x Feeds not remembered between sessions. Record-58 . . . . . x . . x Implode-5 . . - . . x . . x EToys-94 . . . . . . x . x Frame palette name is a rather unfriendly string /usr/share/etoys/ etoys.image. Colors!-4 . x - . . x x x x Needs to resume showing painting end state, not blank page at time zero. Toolbar stop and ctrl-q fail to stop activity, only alt-esc and Frame instance palette work. Speak-9 . . . . . x x . . Paint-23 . . - . . x . . x Some other tools could use cursor event fix. PlayGo-4 . . - . . x . . x Would be good if gnugo was included in .xo x2o-5 . . - . . x x x x Main activity tool bar too full, keep and stop icons end up in a hidden mini menu. Read-52 . . - . . x . . x Should default to setting input focus on the document, not in the toolbar. Geoquiz-3 . . - . x x x x x Would be nice if you could resume from where you last left off. Needs a winning screen with best times (auto quits currently). TurtleArt-10 . . - . . x . . x Memorize-28 . . . . * x . . x Game state is not saved to Journal, but can create custom tile sets and save separately to Journal. Xo IRC-4 . . - . x x x x x Perhaps remember open room tabs in Journal state, nickname and IRC logs as well? Analyze-5 . . - . x x x x x StarChart-4 . . - . . x x x x Model-8 . . - . * x . x . Stores incomplete diagram state to Journal. Terminal-18 . . - . x x x . x TamTamSynthLab-51 . . . . . x x . . TamTamMini-49 . . . . x x x . . Resuming does not restore the setting you were using during the previous session. TamTamJam-51 . . . . . x x . . TamTamEdit-50 . . . . . x . . . Pippy-27 . . . . . X . . . Easy to accidently wipe all your code by clicking on example code, no warning given. Measure-20 . . - . x x x . x Doesn't sleep when Activity is in the
Re: Another pass through some basic Activity test results
It seems that mangling occurred; however, I repaired it and have temporarily published the results here: http://teach.laptop.org/~mstone/gary.txt Michael ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [sugar] G1G1 Pre-installed Activities Request for Help Testing
At Thu, 25 Sep 2008 14:37:09 -0500, Sameer Verma wrote: On Thu, Sep 25, 2008 at 12:39 PM, Yoshiki Ohshima [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: BTW, the spreadsheet is at http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=p_Xhb6KcXLyEViA50CnCaDghl=en So by that metric, Terminal is the best activity. Huh? Yeah. Do these numbers mean anything? What is the point of averaging unrelated numbers? Averaging lines of code score and usability score almost looks like an idea of an innumerate. The numbers are just fillers. They don't mean anything. The idea is for you guys to fill in numbers based on a metric and not because its popular on the list. Feel free to edit as needed. I still don't get it... Even if people edit the spreadsheet as needed, at what point is it going to start making sense? The question is whether things can be put on one dimentional axis in this way. As you also know, using numbers doesn't necessarily make it unbiased. -- Yoshiki ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
764 is imminent
Shortly we will have a 764. Summary changelog from my notes: --- 764 - #7969Accidental searches lead to a blank Home screen sugar-0.82.9-1.olpc3 #8234 Software update (in Control Panel) crashes X-server. sugar-0.82.9-1.olpc3 #8642 Bug in WPA key dialog prevents certain passwords sugar-0.82.9-1.olpc3 #8657 Help activity doesn't show up on a clean install sugar-0.82.9-1.olpc3 #8662 XO man jumps during zoom sugar-0.82.9-1.olpc3 #8626 Icons overlap unnecessarily in crowded neighborhood view. sugar-toolkit-0.82.11-3.olpc3 #8636 Journal activity title not being translated sugar-toolkit-0.82.11-3.olpc3 #8221 We need better Arabic fonts pilgrim 399e01889a8157ccbee5aebaf31b0eefd00a4986 Mothanna-fonts-0.02-3.olpc3 Thabit-fonts-0.02-3.fc9 #8635 Issues with update from 656 sugar-update-control 0.15 I'll respond to the build announcement as well, so that my changelogs appear in a consistent place, but that might not happen until the Red Sox win tonight. --scott -- ( http://cscott.net/ ) ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
twenty issues with Paint activity
Paint-23 on 8.2-763. These are roughly in menu order. If from Journal I double-click on a Paint activity icon, I get two icons in the Frame, one of which has a doubled menu (Paint Activity - Resume - Stop - Resume - Stop) that I can't resume or stop. When I tried to reproduce I got two icons, the first had the doubled menu, but this time the second icon pulsed forever. You can't name a paint session in Paint (6220, I added this to release notes). I can copy Paint's marquee selection and it appears in the frame, but the selection seems inactive -- it's gray, has no hover menu, I can't drag it. I couldn't get paste of a selection to work. The Paint fill is so slow that I assumed the app had died. The Tools menu looks like a tools palette but you it doesn't show the selected tool. Actually, there is one item that looks like a selected tool, but it's the rounded-rect around the current color. The color selection swatches would be a lot more obvious if they started out as the kid's XO colors instead of black and black. Meanwhile the T in the text menu does have a gray background as if it's selected, but it isn't until you click it. And the two effects icons have a white background as if they're active. If you type a pencil or brush size in their drop-down menus you can't dismiss the menu from the keyboard. The Pencil size seems unchanged after changing its size. Polygon tool cursor doesn't look like the polygon tool icon. The Shapes menu doesn't fit the available space, Triangle is in a more items drop-down. I would get rid of the Line shape so the Shapes menu can fit on the regular screen. The menu is Text, its menu item is Type. What's the difference? The image resize spinboxes are so slow if I paste a previous Paint image in, I assumed the app had died. If I type in the image resize text boxes nothing happens but I don't know if it's really slow or they're dead to text input. Ideally they'd immediately show the value you type in or spin to but then you'd get a busy cursor. I can choose anything from the Journal for Image insert, e.g. a terminal session, but nothing happens if it isn't a previous Paint session. Is Paint meant to insert the preview image of non-Paint sessions? After unsuccessfully changing the size of an inserted image, the pencil tool works but the paint tool gets stuck as a selection marquee tool (makes no sense, but it's happened three times to me). The two Effects operations are next to each other and have similar icons but do completely different things. It would be better to separate them, and change the hover text for the first to Make picture gray I know, I know, File bugs. What do kids make of Paint? -- =S Page ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
New joyride build 2486
http://xs-dev.laptop.org/~cscott/olpc/streams/joyride/build2486 Changes in build 2486 from build: 2485 Size delta: 0.00M -xulrunner 1.9-1.olpc3.4 +xulrunner 1.9.0.2-1.olpc3 -xulrunner-pyxpcom 1.9-1.olpc3.4 +xulrunner-pyxpcom 1.9.0.2-1.olpc3 -- This mail was automatically generated See http://dev.laptop.org/~rwh/announcer/joyride-pkgs.html for aggregate logs See http://dev.laptop.org/~rwh/announcer/joyride_vs_update1.html for a comparison ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
New release8.2 build 764
http://pilgrim.laptop.org/~pilgrim/xo-1/streams/8.2/build764 Changes in build 764 from build: 763 Size delta: -0.79M +Mothanna-fonts 0.02-3.olpc3 +Thabit-fonts 0.02-3.fc9 -sugar 0.82.8-1.olpc3 +sugar 0.82.9-1.olpc3 -sugar-toolkit 0.82.10-2.olpc3 +sugar-toolkit 0.82.11-3.olpc3 -sugar-update-control 0.14-1 +sugar-update-control 0.15-1 -fonts-arabic 2.1-2.fc8 -kacst-fonts 1.6.2-2.fc8 -paktype-fonts 2.0-2.fc8 --- Included Mothanna-fonts version 0.02-3.olpc3 --- --- Included Thabit-fonts version 0.02-3.fc9 --- --- Changes for sugar-update-control 0.15-1 from 0.14-1 --- + Minor fixes: strip whitespace when parsing HTML, avoid an unusual crash + If we've applied the 'G1G1 upgrade hack' to kludge in the G1G1 group, -- This mail was automatically generated See http://dev.laptop.org/~rwh/announcer/release8.2-pkgs.html for aggregate logs See http://dev.laptop.org/~rwh/announcer/joyride_vs_update1.html for a comparison ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [sugar] Another pass through some basic Activity test results
Testing gg-763-1 earlier today, running a number of activities for an hour. I later found that I could not restart or reboot via sugar; it would let me select the option from the right menu, but then a gray-circle process appeared in the top frame and nothing would happen. If I quit that process and tried again, the same result. I haven't been able to reproduce on systems that haven't been using activities for a while. SJ On Thu, Sep 25, 2008 at 6:26 PM, Michael Stone [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It seems that mangling occurred; however, I repaired it and have temporarily published the results here: http://teach.laptop.org/~mstone/gary.txt Michael ___ Sugar mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: New release8.2 build 764
Build Announcer v2 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: http://pilgrim.laptop.org/~pilgrim/xo-1/streams/8.2/build764 Changes in build 764 from build: 763 To download and install it through USB: http://lumiere.ens.fr/~guerry/olpc_install_sugar_activities_usb.php -- Bastien ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: New joyride build 2486
Hi, -xulrunner 1.9-1.olpc3.4 +xulrunner 1.9.0.2-1.olpc3 Marco upgraded xulrunner in Joyride to 1.9.0.2 to see if it solves some of the memory use problems we're seeing (especially in WikiBrowse); it looks like it doesn't, though, and the Arithmetic page in WikiBrowsev3 still hits OOM immediately. - Chris. -- Chris Ball [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [sugar] G1G1 Pre-installed Activities Request for Help Testing
On Thu, Sep 25, 2008 at 5:31 PM, Yoshiki Ohshima [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At Thu, 25 Sep 2008 14:37:09 -0500, Sameer Verma wrote: On Thu, Sep 25, 2008 at 12:39 PM, Yoshiki Ohshima [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: BTW, the spreadsheet is at http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=p_Xhb6KcXLyEViA50CnCaDghl=en So by that metric, Terminal is the best activity. Huh? Yeah. Do these numbers mean anything? What is the point of averaging unrelated numbers? Averaging lines of code score and usability score almost looks like an idea of an innumerate. The numbers are just fillers. They don't mean anything. The idea is for you guys to fill in numbers based on a metric and not because its popular on the list. Feel free to edit as needed. I still don't get it... Even if people edit the spreadsheet as needed, at what point is it going to start making sense? The question is whether things can be put on one dimentional axis in this way. As you also know, using numbers doesn't necessarily make it unbiased. -- Yoshiki ___ Sugar mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar Hi Yoshiki, So, let's see this from the way it first started. There was a call for for a list of favorites, and the list came in. Everyone has their favorite list. If I say I want terminal that's a binary decision. Yes/No. If I say Terminal is Cool/OK/Sucks it has three levels inputs. Why I say Cool is of course based on my own intuitive assessment, but its not explicit. Instead, if we say the qualification of Terminal is based on attributes such as Epistemiologocal impact, quality, etc. now we have something more explanatory for Cool. Additionally, by factoring in weights for each item, we can say that they are not all equally important. Epistemological impact is the most important, so we assign it 25%. By scoring each activity on 9 attributes, we spread the bias across the attributes. The weighted score of an activity is its attribute score factored by its weight. As for the biased/unbiased part, yes, you can score all attributes at 10 and get the max possible score, but we are all doing this for a reason, so I assume we'll all be prudent about scoring. Additionally, the scale of 1 to 10 for each attribute provides more variation than a binary yes/no type answer. In the end it all depends on how subjective your scoring was. For example, I really don't know how to rate Fun for terminal on a scale of 1 to 10. But, maybe we can collectively say that Terminal scores 7 for Fun. Now, if Fun wasn't weighted highly for G1G1, it wouldn't make much of a difference anyway. In fact, if we had time, you could also use Monte Carlo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monte_Carlo_method) to improve the inputs. Most spreadsheets can do this easily. The weighted scoring approach isn't new. Its used quite commonly in many multi-criteria assessment situations. Given that we are on a time crunch, this may not be the way to go. Maybe flip the coin and be done with it :-) Hopefully next time we can spend more time on a more multi-criteria approach instead of Cool. cheers, Sameer -- Dr. Sameer Verma, Ph.D. Associate Professor of Information Systems San Francisco State University San Francisco CA 94132 USA http://verma.sfsu.edu/ http://opensource.sfsu.edu/ ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Taking 8.2-763 On The Road
Hi All, Last night I was successful in updating my test machine (the one with the repaired keyboard) to build 8.2-763 and updated all the needed Activities and added the Help Activity. It was a piece of cake, now that I know how to do it. I was very pleased to find the FLOSS manual in the help activity...available without internet access (I turned off my router to test it). It was fun to see the few words I had contributed to it on the XO! Tomorrow (Thursday) morning we will be leaving to return to California. It will take us most of the rest of this week. I plan to field test it as we go, using internet connections in motels and other locations. I will also be traveling to an area in Nevada (Great Basin NP) where there is no internet and, probably, no cell phone service. So I will have the opportunity to play NuB with no connections. Let's see how it goes! BTW, this new build is very nice. If you haven't downloaded a developer key yet, you should do it and join in the testing of this build. The better we can help make it before it ships, the fewer problem calls we will have from our new donors this winter! Caryl ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
New joyride build 2487
http://xs-dev.laptop.org/~cscott/olpc/streams/joyride/build2487 Changes in build 2487 from build: 2486 Size delta: -0.13M -kernel 2.6.25-20080923.3.olpc.f10b654367d7065 +kernel 2.6.25-20080925.1.olpc.f10b654367d7065 -- This mail was automatically generated See http://dev.laptop.org/~rwh/announcer/joyride-pkgs.html for aggregate logs See http://dev.laptop.org/~rwh/announcer/joyride_vs_update1.html for a comparison ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: 764 is imminent
On 25 Sep 2008, at 23:39, C. Scott Ananian wrote: #7969 Accidental searches lead to a blank Home screen sugar-0.82.9-1.olpc3 Hmmm, just installed 8.2-764. I don't think the expected behaviour is that the Home view search be permanently disabled/deactivated? If I go to List view, it's works as before, but on the graphical layout home view (ring, random) the activity search fill area doesn't accept input, has a black fill, and has dark grey outline and looking-glass icon. Thought I'd post quick here. Looking for trac ticket now. --Gary ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: 764 is imminent
On Thu, Sep 25, 2008 at 9:26 PM, Gary C Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 25 Sep 2008, at 23:39, C. Scott Ananian wrote: #7969 Accidental searches lead to a blank Home screen sugar-0.82.9-1.olpc3 Hmmm, just installed 8.2-764. I don't think the expected behaviour is that the Home view search be permanently disabled/deactivated? If I go to List view, it's works as before, but on the graphical layout home view (ring, random) the activity search fill area doesn't accept input, has a black fill, and has dark grey outline and looking-glass icon. Yup, we were getting several reports that kids accidentally pressed keys while at the Home screen (which auto-focuses the search field.).. This was taking them to an empty list view with no matches, which made them think it was broken. We've disabled it in the favorites view until we can a) add a proper no matching activities message in the list, and we can actually do a search in favorites itself without resorting to the view switch, which was kind of a hack. http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/7969 - Eben Thought I'd post quick here. Looking for trac ticket now. --Gary ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Bad experience wit 764: lost complete /home/olpc/Activities directory.
Just installed 8.2-764. Started software-update which wanted to install some updates and now also for the first time a lot of library bundles. Started OK, but remained hanging on the Wikipedia library bundle. Canceled update and control panel. Home view still showed all activities, including new ones like Implode. But no activity wanted to start. Looking with a terminal (Ctrl-Alt-F2) showed that the complete /home/olpc/Activities had disappeared !!! Very, very bad. This is the first time I lost everything. Will file a trac ticket with the corresponding shell.log after this mail. Ton van Overbeek ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: 764 is imminent
On 26 Sep 2008, at 02:30, Eben Eliason wrote: On Thu, Sep 25, 2008 at 9:26 PM, Gary C Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 25 Sep 2008, at 23:39, C. Scott Ananian wrote: #7969 Accidental searches lead to a blank Home screen sugar-0.82.9-1.olpc3 Hmmm, just installed 8.2-764. I don't think the expected behaviour is that the Home view search be permanently disabled/deactivated? If I go to List view, it's works as before, but on the graphical layout home view (ring, random) the activity search fill area doesn't accept input, has a black fill, and has dark grey outline and looking-glass icon. Yup, we were getting several reports that kids accidentally pressed keys while at the Home screen (which auto-focuses the search field.).. This was taking them to an empty list view with no matches, which made them think it was broken. We've disabled it in the favorites view until we can a) add a proper no matching activities message in the list, and we can actually do a search in favorites itself without resorting to the view switch, which was kind of a hack. http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/7969 - Eben Thanks Eben, found it. Added my none too chuffed comment – sorry – really looks quite the ugly hack, and on the first screen anyone will see from Sugar. Also doesn't help that the default input focus has now crawled it's way onto the ring view icon (now has that nasty white box outline around the circle), but that's the least of your worries. --Gary ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: 764 is imminent
You raise very good points. Perhaps hiding it completely was the correct solutionthere was disagreement. (Although, hiding wouldn't fix the focus ring issue...) - Eben On Thu, Sep 25, 2008 at 10:05 PM, Gary C Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 26 Sep 2008, at 02:30, Eben Eliason wrote: On Thu, Sep 25, 2008 at 9:26 PM, Gary C Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 25 Sep 2008, at 23:39, C. Scott Ananian wrote: #7969 Accidental searches lead to a blank Home screen sugar-0.82.9-1.olpc3 Hmmm, just installed 8.2-764. I don't think the expected behaviour is that the Home view search be permanently disabled/deactivated? If I go to List view, it's works as before, but on the graphical layout home view (ring, random) the activity search fill area doesn't accept input, has a black fill, and has dark grey outline and looking-glass icon. Yup, we were getting several reports that kids accidentally pressed keys while at the Home screen (which auto-focuses the search field.).. This was taking them to an empty list view with no matches, which made them think it was broken. We've disabled it in the favorites view until we can a) add a proper no matching activities message in the list, and we can actually do a search in favorites itself without resorting to the view switch, which was kind of a hack. http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/7969 - Eben Thanks Eben, found it. Added my none too chuffed comment – sorry – really looks quite the ugly hack, and on the first screen anyone will see from Sugar. Also doesn't help that the default input focus has now crawled it's way onto the ring view icon (now has that nasty white box outline around the circle), but that's the least of your worries. --Gary ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Bad experience wit 764: lost complete /home/olpc/Activities directory.
Note: One item to remember, Sugar GUI won't update the icons on Home icons is not live but refreshed on certain events... such a sugar reset or 'refresh' event. I had something similar happen to me, where the icons weren't working, and then I noticed that Sugar hadn't updated the icons after a failed Software update. I'll test out 764 and see if I can reproduce issues too. -Ixo On Thu, Sep 25, 2008 at 18:43, Ton van Overbeek [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: Just installed 8.2-764. Started software-update which wanted to install some updates and now also for the first time a lot of library bundles. Started OK, but remained hanging on the Wikipedia library bundle. Canceled update and control panel. Home view still showed all activities, including new ones like Implode. But no activity wanted to start. Looking with a terminal (Ctrl-Alt-F2) showed that the complete /home/olpc/Activities had disappeared !!! Very, very bad. This is the first time I lost everything. Will file a trac ticket with the corresponding shell.log after this mail. Ton van Overbeek ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: twenty issues with Paint activity
On Sep 25, 2008, at 3:59 PM, S Page wrote: Paint-23 on 8.2-763. These are roughly in menu order. If from Journal I double-click on a Paint activity icon, I get two icons in the Frame, one of which has a doubled menu (Paint Activity - Resume - Stop - Resume - Stop) that I can't resume or stop. When I tried to reproduce I got two icons, the first had the doubled menu, but this time the second icon pulsed forever. The above may be a general system problem. I have seen the same problem with both Chat and Browse were if you double click on the icon you end up with menu weirdness and throbbing icons. You can't name a paint session in Paint (6220, I added this to release notes). I can copy Paint's marquee selection and it appears in the frame, but the selection seems inactive -- it's gray, has no hover menu, I can't drag it. I couldn't get paste of a selection to work. The Paint fill is so slow that I assumed the app had died. The Tools menu looks like a tools palette but you it doesn't show the selected tool. Actually, there is one item that looks like a selected tool, but it's the rounded-rect around the current color. The color selection swatches would be a lot more obvious if they started out as the kid's XO colors instead of black and black. Meanwhile the T in the text menu does have a gray background as if it's selected, but it isn't until you click it. And the two effects icons have a white background as if they're active. If you type a pencil or brush size in their drop-down menus you can't dismiss the menu from the keyboard. The Pencil size seems unchanged after changing its size. Polygon tool cursor doesn't look like the polygon tool icon. The Shapes menu doesn't fit the available space, Triangle is in a more items drop-down. I would get rid of the Line shape so the Shapes menu can fit on the regular screen. The menu is Text, its menu item is Type. What's the difference? The image resize spinboxes are so slow if I paste a previous Paint image in, I assumed the app had died. If I type in the image resize text boxes nothing happens but I don't know if it's really slow or they're dead to text input. Ideally they'd immediately show the value you type in or spin to but then you'd get a busy cursor. I can choose anything from the Journal for Image insert, e.g. a terminal session, but nothing happens if it isn't a previous Paint session. Is Paint meant to insert the preview image of non-Paint sessions? After unsuccessfully changing the size of an inserted image, the pencil tool works but the paint tool gets stuck as a selection marquee tool (makes no sense, but it's happened three times to me). The two Effects operations are next to each other and have similar icons but do completely different things. It would be better to separate them, and change the hover text for the first to Make picture gray I know, I know, File bugs. What do kids make of Paint? -- =S Page ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: New release8.2 build 764
On Thu, Sep 25, 2008 at 7:55 PM, Bastien [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Build Announcer v2 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: http://pilgrim.laptop.org/~pilgrim/xo-1/streams/8.2/build764 Changes in build 764 from build: 763 To download and install it through USB: http://lumiere.ens.fr/~guerry/olpc_install_sugar_activities_usb.php Please ensure that your activities and content list matches [[Activities/G1G1]]. Thanks for your help making this easier for people to try! --scott -- ( http://cscott.net/ ) ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
New joyride build 2488
http://xs-dev.laptop.org/~cscott/olpc/streams/joyride/build2488 Changes in build 2488 from build: 2487 Size delta: 0.00M -SDL 1.2.13-3.fc9 +SDL 1.2.13-4.fc9.1 --- Changes for SDL 1.2.13-4.fc9.1 from 1.2.13-3.fc9 --- + dlo#8307: Sound doesn't work in pygame applications. -- This mail was automatically generated See http://dev.laptop.org/~rwh/announcer/joyride-pkgs.html for aggregate logs See http://dev.laptop.org/~rwh/announcer/joyride_vs_update1.html for a comparison ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
New release8.2 build 765
http://pilgrim.laptop.org/~pilgrim/xo-1/streams/8.2/build765 Changes in build 765 from build: 764 Size delta: 0.00M -kernel 2.6.25-20080922.2.olpc.38b5fedf917fc36 +kernel 2.6.25-20080925.1.olpc.f10b654367d7065 -SDL 1.2.13-3.fc9 +SDL 1.2.13-4.fc9.1 --- Changes for SDL 1.2.13-4.fc9.1 from 1.2.13-3.fc9 --- + dlo#8307: Sound doesn't work in pygame applications. -- This mail was automatically generated See http://dev.laptop.org/~rwh/announcer/release8.2-pkgs.html for aggregate logs See http://dev.laptop.org/~rwh/announcer/joyride_vs_update1.html for a comparison ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Server-devel] Translating Moodle - a sustainable approach...?
Hi Martin, Apologies for the delayed response. On Mon, Sep 22, 2008 at 7:17 AM, Martin Langhoff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Sayamindu, I am preparing a Moodle package for the XS and looking a bit into localisation strategies. Looks like Moodle and the XS software in general is going to be rather different from the laptop sw translation. For this release of the XS I am going to not worry too much about translations and focus -- it is a 'milestone' release, and I can coordinate with local teams how to install the localisation packages separately. For the next release (xs-0.6) I'd like to have a sustainable approach. In this email I will focus on Moodle, as a custom version of it will be the main UI of the XS. Mediawiki - another large app I am planning on packaging for the XS - has mostly the same issues around l10n/i18n. The Pootle approach - while good for Sugar apps, has several issues for the XS software: - gettext has technical and performance problems running in webservers -- part of the problem may have to do with how the PHP-gettext extension is written - however, this problem has been with us for a long time, and it is unlikely to be fixed in the short term. Moodle and Mediawiki both use custom systems for their strings. No successful PHP webapp I am aware of uses gettext :-/ - These custom systems have slightly different ways of handling string interpolation and plurals - Moodle has a large number of strings - ~10K (MW is smaller, I think) - Moodle has an active community in many languages, and an active translation team. Of course, not all translations have good coverage... - We will be customising Moodle extensively, so we'll want to override some strings, as well as add our own strings. It's also interesting to note that Moodle ships with its own strings editor to make it easy to maintain translations (and contribute them) :-) -- I guess it's what you have to do when you can't use pootle! So my thinking at the moment is as follows... - Get translators involved upstream, and contributing to the core translation. As part of this, make it easy for them to use a vanilla (unpatched) moodle, and give them some guidance as to what parts of moodle we actually use so that they can choose to focus if their time is (understandably) short. - Give translators access to a custom moodle that - shows the modified pages (with a some notes as to where to focus their attention) - grabs translation updates from upstream often (or can be told to fetch them 'now') - lets them edit the overrides All of this is naturally quite a bit of work to implement and to maintain over time. Moodle has a lot of surface (lots of UIs, pages, buttons, functionality) -- so this is a large task. However, I think it is valuable as it will be the face of the school server that users experience. (Of course, the XS has many other services for the XOs but most of them are transparent to the user.) One of the issues I see here is the relative difficulty in pushing translator upstream. I won't be a problem for active languages like Spanish, Turkish, etc, but for languages like Pashto, etc, which have very few people translating, are even lesser number of people with proper (if any) internet access, it is going to be a problem. However, as you say, it might be actually _worth_ the effort :-). On the other hand, Pootle actually handles a large number of project which are non-gettext based - in fact, we are the only large userbase of Pootle who use gettext and PO files. The other two large projects using Pootle are Mozilla and OpenOffice.org, which have their own i18n framework. I was wondering in that case, would it be possible for Moodle to publish/export translations files, which would essentially be a set of any kind of key-value pairs - even plain old CSV would do. If we can do that, I'm sure that we can come up with a workflow which would let people use Pootle to translate the custom version of Moodle for the XS. Do you think that makes sense ? Thanks, Sayamindu -- Sayamindu Dasgupta [http://sayamindu.randomink.org/ramblings] ___ Server-devel mailing list Server-devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/server-devel
