Re: [Sugar-devel] UI experiments: pop-up menus and hot corners
Hi Mikus, On 4 Jul 2010, at 06:45, Mikus Grinbergs mi...@bga.com wrote: The down side is that every activity start would be then be two clicks, one to bring up the large dialogue (I like to think of it as a one page gallery), and one for new or resume choice... But that was partly the point, no one here could agree on a new or resume default behaviour, so there needs to be an extra user end decision, just to settle the UI feud and allow us move on, to more gainful tasks. If the user needs to choose case-by-case whether to launch new or resume, if he wants to resume he can go to Journal (one click) and launch from there (second click) -- whereas if he wants to launch new he can go to Home, hover, and (one click) 'Start' in the existing palette. That's how the Sugar UI used to be. Users ended up launching new activities most of the time bringing the machine to it's knees, filling the Journal with junk entries, and then not being able to find what they want when they do look in the Journal to resume something. For those users who consistently resume all the time, provide a setting within the control panel to override the directly_on_Home_icon first-click behavior (perform launch new vs. show menu of resumes). If frame behavior can be specified by user, so should home behaviour I think that choice needs to be much closer and explicit in the new/resume user action, it's a choice you make each time based on your current goal. Pushing that choice into the CP would be pushing the default choice to deployers making builds who would then be stuck in the same loop (default resume == kids often manually wipe past work; default new == kids often OOM machines and fill Journal with junk entries). Regards, --Gary My $.02 mikus ___ olpc mailing list o...@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/olpc ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
July 4th, 4PM NYC time: How Cellular Data can Reach *Distant* Schools [was: 5 upcoming Sunday talks/events for OLPC volunteers]
See you in 2hrs 20min! -=-=-=-=-=- Thanks to Sugar's 3G interface developers who will join from South America this coming Sunday 4PM! Reply to holt @ laptop.org for our phone presentation's conf-call number, and the below speaker's PDF slides, which we hope he might later make public. Call is free worldwide, if you have a full SkypeOut account. Live Chat for those who don't: http://forum.laptop.org/chat (that's *#olpc-help* on irc.freenode.net) /All presentations Sunday 4PM Boston/Eastern Time, unless otherwise noted. Calls should be short (15min talk, 15min QA) -- alongside any insider OLPC scoop I can possibly provide you, to help all volunteers do their very best:/ *Sunday June 27 - How Cellular Data can Reach *Distant* Schools* By Roger Glasel, CEO eeZee Communicarions Inc, http://www.eezee.ca /Clarif:/ many of us will gather 4PM (SHARP) at OLPC's office in Cambridge, Massachusetts to listen to Roger present his slides from Edmonton, Alberta. Sorry doors are locked after 4PM -- RSVP if you will attend in person! Roger will explain how you can put your school online, even if you live in a remote area just outside the reach of your cellphone's normal calling areas. The technology does not require the cellphone company advance permission, and requires only a $700-$2500 device that dramatically boosts your regular cellphone data plan's signal, using all modern protocols: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3G http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4G *Sunday July 11 - Virtual Field Trip Realness (Classrooms ain't in Kansas Nomore)* By Laura Susan Bell, Virtual Field Trip Facilitator OLPC Support Volunteer. Laura will explain how she administers classrooms in Upper NY State, taking her students on virtual field trips will real-live NASA engineers etc, who ship her in-classroom supplies in-advance to dramatically liven the experience for all kids. *Sunday July 18 - Eleven Years Deploying Computers in South African Schools* By Alan Field, in person at OLPC in Cambridge, MA. Alan will discuss the many deep lessons he's learned along the way, over the 11 years he and his wife have spent teaching training using Macs across 30 schools 300KM SE of Johannesburg. Towards both Creative Learning and Drill and K^hThrill -- come learn where Nelson Mandela's post-World Cup nation is heading next. http://web.mac.com/donita27/EndumeniLearningMachines/Home.html *Sunday July 25 NOON - East Africa and West Africa OLPC Community Public Brunch* NYC/Bronx Location [] announced here -- RSVP required: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/OLPC_NYC http://lists.laptop.org/pipermail/olpc-nyc/ http://twitter.com/olpcnyc *August July 1 - From Viet Cong to Venture Capital to Vietnam Community* Location/Parti-Pants to be announced. How has OLPC's Vietnam Community progressed so far, so fast, in just 1 year? http://olpc.vn http://saigonolpc.wordpress.com http://wiki.laptop.org/go/OLPC_Vietnam http://groups.google.com/group/olpc-vietnam/ http://web.me.com/seanlaurence/olpc/olpc.html http://www.travelpod.com/travel-blog/nsevers/4/tpod.html http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Projects/Vung_Vieng_Fishing_Vietnam /REMINDER: meetings are generally for OLPC volunteers/staff only, and accompanying friends you personally introduce, who are willing to help Make S---^h^h^hUPPORT Happen!!/ ... ___ support-gang mailing list support-g...@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/support-gang ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] UI experiments: pop-up menus and hot corners
Mikus, let's keep sugar-devel@ posted on Sugar UI threads. I know you're not subscribed, but we shouldn't cut-off all the Sugar developers from the discussion. Besides, this thread became quite off-topic for de...@l.l.o and fedora-olpc-l...@. If the user needs to choose case-by-case whether to launch new or resume, if he wants to resume he can go to Journal (one click) and launch from there (second click) -- whereas if he wants to launch new he can go to Home, hover, and (one click) 'Start' in the existing palette. In 0.88, users can do alt-click to get a new activity instance, which is pretty fast, but somewhat hard to discover. For those users who consistently resume all the time, provide a setting within the control panel to override the directly_on_Home_icon first-click behavior (perform launch new vs. show menu of resumes). If frame behavior can be specified by user, so should home behavior. I think we should resist the temptation to add too many configuration knobs to the UI. We'd end up with a cluttered and unmaintainable control panel like KDE 3 and Gnome 1. Assuming that people resume the last activity more often than creating a new one, click is probably the best default. So far, users seem to be ok with it, though it took them some time to re-adapt on the 0.82 - 0.84 transition. -- // Bernie Innocenti - http://codewiz.org/ \X/ Sugar Labs - http://sugarlabs.org/ ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] UI experiments: pop-up menus and hot corners
some current (ongoing) future design changes will remove this issue completely with a full screen screen dialogue for deciding new/resume. One click on a home view activity displays a gallery/journal like display of past work or a new blank template Users ended up launching new activities most of the time bringing the machine to it's knees, filling the Journal with junk entries, and then not being able to find what they want when they do look in the Journal to resume something. What this design change will do is deliberately introduce a 'pause' into the process of launching an Activity -- to force the user to evaluate why am I launching? What I am wondering is whether force decision before launching is more user-friendly than simply launch. If the problem is users filling up the machine, will making it more difficult to launch a new instance be an adequate solution ? Will the kid who wants to make a new drawing on Tuesday be content with resuming the activity he used Monday -- thereby wiping his drawing from Monday ? Forcing a decision on every launch may work -- but there still needs to be a user-helpful way to address I've filled up the machine when that happens -- for those who nevertheless persist in overusing new launch. [Would an ultimate design propose to make the machine be the master over the user -- and employ this full screen launch dialogue to refuse launch whenever the machine approaches being brought to its knees ??] mikus p.s. The Journal user-interface was invented, with a filter capability. Now a full screen dialogue user-interface would be duplicating what the Journal can show. I myself am not comfortable with duplication. ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Update procedure 10.1.1 XO1.5
Hello, I am helping with a deployment expecting XO1.5 with 10.1.1 but we have not got our hands on any of them yet. It is not clear to me, if the flashdrive reinstall method remains the same for activitie as it was for the 1.0 I.e. I can see that one reinstalls the OS by starting up the XO-1.5 with a flashdrive containing os204.img and fs.zip, holding down the four game keys; if you want to install a bundle of activities at the same time, what is the procedure (for locked XOs)? With the 1.0s we have been preparing the flash drives with a boot and bundles folder and a file customization-2; the XO automatically restarts after flashing the OS to install the activities in the bundles folder. What is the equivalent with the 1.5/10.1.1? How does gnash on the 10.1.1 release compare with previous versions, do we still need to install Flash 10+ to view stuff like youtube and flash animations? David Leeming ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] UI experiments: pop-up menus and hot corners
Hi Mikus, On 4 Jul 2010, at 20:23, Mikus Grinbergs mi...@bga.com wrote: some current (ongoing) future design changes will remove this issue completely with a full screen screen dialogue for deciding new/resume. One click on a home view activity displays a gallery/journal like display of past work or a new blank template Users ended up launching new activities most of the time bringing the machine to it's knees, filling the Journal with junk entries, and then not being able to find what they want when they do look in the Journal to resume something. What this design change will do is deliberately introduce a 'pause' into the process of launching an Activity -- to force the user to evaluate why am I launching? What I am wondering is whether force decision before launching is more user-friendly than simply launch. If the problem is users filling up the machine, No, sorry if I wasn't clear in my explanation, it's not users filling up their disk space that this design effort is trying to resolve (most Sugar activities have very small Journal entries). Having 'start new' as the default home behaviour leads to many concurrently open activities, often bringing the machine to a grinding halt due to OOM. The Journal also fills up with more junk entries (making it harder to search though and find work to resume from). will making it more difficult to launch a new instance be an adequate solution ? The new design strives to make resuming and 'start new' behaviours of equal priority in the UI. The current version of Sugar has resume as the default behaviour (since 0.84) in an attempt to resolve the flood of deployment feedback about the above mentioned lockups due to OOM and Journal spam. We now have feedback that 'start new' is too hidden and that kids are often resuming recent work and manually erasing the canvas to start something new (I've seen this happen first hand, child asks in Paint how to make a big brush, and then paints out their previous work with white; also I've started to see requests for activities to have a clear all tool button for much the same reason). So the new design work will make 'start new' more visible than with the currently released Sugar. Will the kid who wants to make a new drawing on Tuesday be content with resuming the activity he used Monday -- thereby wiping his drawing from Monday ? She might want to paint some more on Mondays painting, or start something new. We're trying to put that choice equally up front for her before the activity launches, though I accept this adds an extra click/decision to every activity invocation. FWIW: We could leave in the alt-click 'start new' home short cut for those expert users who know they want a fresh activity session and no dialogue. Forcing a decision on every launch may work -- but there still needs to be a user-helpful way to address I've filled up the machine when that happens -- for those who nevertheless persist in overusing new launch. Yes, this is a separate design issue we are not trying to fix with this specific work. There are already a couple of features. One is that a warning dialogue pops up when you've filled N% of your flash, and switches you to the Journal and asks for you to remove things — it's better than nothing but I've not found it useful so far, it keeps dragging you back to the Journal view, usually I'm trying to get back to Terminal to stop a yum, a git clone, a file curl/wget :) The other is I think something new Bernie has been experimenting with, basically a last chance saloon script that auto deletes some activities, so that the machine can at least be booted. Regards, --Gary P.S. We keep slipping on a date/time for the next irc #sugar-meeting design meeting, folks are most welcome, Christian has some nice mockups he's been polishing up for publication. We're trying again for tomorrow/Monday, but no time confirmed just yet. [Would an ultimate design propose to make the machine be the master over the user -- and employ this full screen launch dialogue to refuse launch whenever the machine approaches being brought to its knees ??] mikus p.s. The Journal user-interface was invented, with a filter capability. Now a full screen dialogue user-interface would be duplicating what the Journal can show. I myself am not comfortable with duplication. ___ olpc mailing list o...@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/olpc ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] UI experiments: pop-up menus and hot corners
On Sun, 2010-07-04 at 23:42 +0100, Gary Martin wrote: P.S. We keep slipping on a date/time for the next irc #sugar-meeting design meeting, folks are most welcome, Christian has some nice mockups he's been polishing up for publication. We're trying again for tomorrow/Monday, but no time confirmed just yet. Tomorrow (monday) I'll be in Caacupé all day and I might be offline most of the time. Please, give me some advance notice if the meeting is happening tomorrow. p.s. The Journal user-interface was invented, with a filter capability. Now a full screen dialogue user-interface would be duplicating what the Journal can show. I myself am not comfortable with duplication. I agree with Mikus, but I'd like to see the mock-ups -- // Bernie Innocenti - http://codewiz.org/ \X/ Sugar Labs - http://sugarlabs.org/ ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Update procedure 10.1.1 XO1.5
G'day David, I've just tested http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Customization_stick for you on an XO-1.5 which already had os204 on it. The stick was for installing the HelloWorld-1.xo activity only. It worked fine. Because the XO-1.5 had security disabled, I pressed the X game key while powering up. The graphical boot animation went away and a text booting log appears. You should see Hello, (deployment people of the) world! as a confirmation that the customisation process is happening. Check your order to see if you are receiving units with security disabled. Once you have your hands on them, test by trying to get to the ok prompt http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Ok and typing .mfg-data ... laptops with security disabled have a ww tag. Laptops with security enabled have a wp tag which prevents you from reaching the ok prompt. On Mon, Jul 05, 2010 at 08:12:24AM +1100, David Leeming wrote: I.e. I can see that one reinstalls the OS by starting up the XO-1.5 with a flashdrive containing os204.img and fs.zip, holding down the four game keys; if you want to install a bundle of activities at the same time, what is the procedure (for locked XOs)? It is as documented on the Wiki page. Paraphrasing: Hold down all four game keys. The operating system image will be installed. When the laptop boots, it will see the USB stick still present and install the activity bundles. I've just tested the four game keys method for os205 and it worked fine, although I had to intervene ... an unlocked, security disabled, laptop requires an X game key down at the time the laptop boots after operating system image install. In place of adding activities with a customisation key, you could instead build an operating system image yourself. This is a fairly complex process by comparison. How does gnash on the 10.1.1 release compare with previous versions, do we still need to install Flash 10+ to view stuff like youtube and flash animations? I've not compared gnash with previous release, but on os205 with no additional software installed a youtube.com 0vFYYQhf8jg did not play, a message An error occurred, please try again later. appeared. -- James Cameron http://quozl.linux.org.au/ ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: F11-for-XO1.5 Release 10.1.1 Release Candidate 4- Hardware issue?
On Fri, Jul 02, 2010 at 12:59:14AM -0700, Yioryos Asprobounitis wrote: --- On Thu, 7/1/10, James Cameron qu...@laptop.org wrote: - try a longer time without battery or external power, How long is longer? overnight? Double the time you previously tried, up to five minutes. If you've already tried more than five minutes, exclude this suggestion. - check that the AC adaptor is plugged in, in case the battery is failing to provide enough current to start things up, When I re-flash and first boot I always have AC plugged in case of a FW update or battery failure Okay, the AC is plugged in, thanks. I wasn't aware. What model XO-1.5 is it? I believe is a production machine (C2?) Thanks. On first boot it froze about 4sec into the boot process, I think at loading mass storage devices or something relevant. I'm not familiar with that message. Could you explain further from your memory of the event what else was present? On my first boot I start with the check mark pressed so I can see what's going on. So it was at the boot console. I can not recall the exact message. Was something about mass storage devices but not quite remember. 4.x sec into the boot process. Did not look like the zero dot freeze because the camera light was not on. Thanks. That rings no bells for me. On hard reboot (with power button for 5sec) ... I hope you didn't do this during a firmware reflashing. That would be bad. No I didn't. Actually I was surprise that was no FW update. My XO-1.5 had q3a39, but the latest is q3a41. Is os205 using q3a39? (ok, I can find that :) os205 includes q3a39. It is sufficient for this issue. Should I be sending it back for diagnosis if everything else fails or just consider it random failure? Sounds like it ... just to clarify though, the current state of the laptop is that it does not respond correctly when the power button is pressed to turn it on? backlight blinks for a split second but the screen stays dark. The power light comes on but not the processor and wifi lights. No chime earther. Richard, what do you think? -- James Cameron http://quozl.linux.org.au/ ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Clocks on XOs
On Fri, Jul 02, 2010 at 08:15:38PM -0700, Hal Murray wrote: Was: Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Caacup=E9?= war bullettin -- day 1 ber...@codewiz.org said: * Date not being updated One laptop booted with clock set to the Epoch. Is that one of the old XOs that had troubles with the tiny battery feeding the TOY/RTC clock when the main battery and wall power are both disconnected? I forget the details, but I think there was a problem with the battery holder. the 'd6 bricking' has 2 common symptoms: the laptop boots with a dark screen and the mic light flashes and never goes further or the laptop boots with a message about an invalid date and goes no further. That is for non-lease-bound XOs. The lease complicates this as because when you have to re-image the laptop, you need to get a lease file onto the laptop to activate the laptop. See: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Fix_Clock (let me know if you want to add a spanish translation) cheers, Kev -- | .''`. == Debian GNU/Linux ==.| http://kevix.myopenid.com..| | : :' : The Universal OS| mysite.verizon.net/kevin.mark/.| | `. `' http://www.debian.org/.| http://counter.li.org [#238656]| |___`-Unless I ask to be CCd,.assume I am subscribed._| ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
