lid close while shutting down
What happens if the XO's lid is closed after the shutdown option is selected in Sugar? Is there a chance that the XO does not shut down - e.g. suspends or gets stuck in some limbo state? Is there a possibility for them to get damaged? I'd think that a powered-on XO would get very hot if the lid was shut. Sridhar Sridhar Dhanapalan Engineering Manager One Laptop per Child Australia M: +61 425 239 701 E: srid...@laptop.org.au A: G.P.O. Box 731 Sydney, NSW 2001 W: www.laptop.org.au ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [OLPC-AU] lid close while shutting down
The XO-1.5 does not overheat if used properly. The XO-1.5 has higher CPU performance than an XO-1, and also generates more heat than an XO-1. The heat is transfered through a heat spreader to the upper casing. The total heat generated is limited by the battery capacity. If the temperature exceeds a set point, the processor is stopped, and further heat generation is significantly reduced. This is under control of the hardware, not the software. However, it is easy for incorrect impressions about the design to spread, based on ad-hoc analysis and reporting. For example, because of an episode of damage that happened when a stack of laptops was left on and their lid sensors interacted, and because of the use of early prototypes with an incomplete heat spreader, no doubt a myth has developed that the thermal design of the laptop is bad. However, the software has been enhanced to fix the lid sensor interaction, and the heat spreaders of early prototypes can be tested and fixed. Moreover, our tests in ovens showed that the thermal design can be trusted. What's the context of your questions? Please give more detail. I've tested; if the lid is closed after the shutdown option is selected in Sugar, the lid close suspend is avoided, the screen shows the shutdown UL warnings, and within the normal time for a shutdown (i.e. depending on the speed of the internal microSD), it turns off the power. In addition, opening the lid does not cancel the shutdown, nor does opening and closing the lid rapidly. These tests were with build 883, OLPC OS 11.3.0 on XO-1.5. You should test with your own builds, especially if you make any alterations to the powerd configuration or the kernel. You can verify from power logs whether the users have properly shutdown their laptops. Please ensure this logging works well, as it will give you good data. Obtain the logs whenever there is a report of laptop thermal issues. Require that the logging is implemented as part of any remedial action. There is certainly possibility for damage if the laptop is placed in an insulated bag or stacked with other laptops without being shutdown. There is also possibility of damage to other items in an insulated bag. Physically shutting the lid ... alone ... may increase the temperature of the laptop, but not to a great extent, and only if the software does not shutdown. The increase is from the reduced cooling available; the front face is insulated by the keyboard, and the back face is no longer vertical. As a result of not being vertical, the airflow is reduced, which reduces the transfer of heat to the air. I don't think a powered-on XO gets very hot at all if the lid is shut. It merely grows slightly warmer. On Tue, Feb 14, 2012 at 09:04:40PM +1100, Sridhar Dhanapalan wrote: What happens if the XO's lid is closed after the shutdown option is selected in Sugar? Is there a chance that the XO does not shut down - e.g. suspends or gets stuck in some limbo state? Is there a possibility for them to get damaged? I'd think that a powered-on XO would get very hot if the lid was shut. Sridhar Sridhar Dhanapalan Engineering Manager One Laptop per Child Australia M: +61 425 239 701 E: srid...@laptop.org.au A: G.P.O. Box 731 ?? ? Sydney, NSW 2001 W: www.laptop.org.au ___ OLPC-AU mailing list olpc...@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/olpc-au -- James Cameron http://quozl.linux.org.au/ ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [OLPC-AU] lid close while shutting down
Hi Sridhar, My guess is that it would shut down OR go into suspend. On Tue, Feb 14, 2012 at 08:04, Sridhar Dhanapalan srid...@laptop.org.au wrote: What happens if the XO's lid is closed after the shutdown option is selected in Sugar? Is there a chance that the XO does not shut down - e.g. suspends or gets stuck in some limbo state? Is there a possibility for them to get damaged? I'd think that a powered-on XO would get very hot if the lid was shut. Sridhar Sridhar Dhanapalan Engineering Manager One Laptop per Child Australia M: +61 425 239 701 E: srid...@laptop.org.au A: G.P.O. Box 731 Sydney, NSW 2001 W: www.laptop.org.au ___ OLPC-AU mailing list olpc...@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/olpc-au -- Anish ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [OLPC-AU] lid close while shutting down
On 14 February 2012 22:09, James Cameron qu...@laptop.org wrote: For example, because of an episode of damage that happened when a stack of laptops was left on and their lid sensors interacted, and because of the use of early prototypes with an incomplete heat spreader, no doubt a myth has developed that the thermal design of the laptop is bad. Not a myth, just a concern and a need on my part to understand the implementation better. You can verify from power logs whether the users have properly shutdown their laptops. Please ensure this logging works well, as it will give you good data. Obtain the logs whenever there is a report of laptop thermal issues. Require that the logging is implemented as part of any remedial action. Agreed. We are working on a means to more easily collect this information from the field. I don't think a powered-on XO gets very hot at all if the lid is shut. It merely grows slightly warmer. What about if it's also charging in an XOP rack? Thanks, Sridhar ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Weird behaviour
No, this email is not about my generally weird behaviour, it's about a couple of my new XO 1.5's :-) I have 2 x XO 1.5's that seem to have a very slow USB transfer rate; like, I mean glacial. I use the same USB build sticks to build many XO 1.5's, but on these particular two it takes close to an hour to do a refresh, or sometimes just stops in the middle of the refresh block colour animation - regardless of the stick used. I have many times verified that the same sticks refresh in normal time, on about 8 other 1.5s. All the XO's are currently at the default 883 build with q3b11 when doing this refresh test. I then suspected maybe main memory, but then a refresh from the SD card slots on these same two suspect machines is lightning fast, (in fact way faster than I've ever seen using USB), and the machine seems to be successfully built. However, I've also then done just a USB copy from another stick down to the file system, and it too is really, really slow, if and when when it finishes. The standard short-cut key at boot-time diagnostics show no errors. Any hints? Thanks KG ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [OLPC-AU] lid close while shutting down
On Tue, Feb 14, 2012 at 8:12 AM, Sridhar Dhanapalan srid...@laptop.org.au wrote: What about if it's also charging in an XOP rack? Tell people your actual adventure, all details. The time of the OLPC team is valuable; we try to help you, but we have a lot of other things on our table. Help us help you. cheers, m martin.langh...@gmail.com mar...@laptop.org -- Software Architect - OLPC - ask interesting questions - don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [OLPC-AU] lid close while shutting down
sridhar wrote: On 14 February 2012 22:09, James Cameron qu...@laptop.org wrote: For example, because of an episode of damage that happened when a stack of laptops was left on and their lid sensors interacted, and because of the use of early prototypes with an incomplete heat spreader, no doubt a myth has developed that the thermal design of the laptop is bad. Not a myth, just a concern and a need on my part to understand the implementation better. You can verify from power logs whether the users have properly shutdown their laptops. Please ensure this logging works well, as it will give you good data. Obtain the logs whenever there is a report of laptop thermal issues. Require that the logging is implemented as part of any remedial action. Agreed. We are working on a means to more easily collect this information from the field. I don't think a powered-on XO gets very hot at all if the lid is shut. It merely grows slightly warmer. What about if it's also charging in an XOP rack? in that case i think this part of james' reply is the pertinent part: There is certainly possibility for damage if the laptop is ... stacked with other laptops without being shutdown. a powered-on laptop with a closed lid might get warm. but it's not an issue unless there are a stack (or a rack) of such laptops. that's why we've gone to some effort to ensure the system stays off when the lid switch is triggered (even though that's a very convenient feature -- i can tell you it hurt to disable it.) as for closing the lid after commencing shutdown? once powerd commences the shutdown sequence, it won't return to its main loop before exiting or being killed, so there's little chance of it causing a suspend due to the closed lid. if the shutdown process got hung somewhere, i suppose it's possible that powerd might be respawned (i'll check on that), and run far enough to cause a suspend -- but i'm skeptical. (at that point the system was already in trouble, so arguably suspending would be better than not, anyway.) paul =- paul fox, p...@laptop.org ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Weird behaviour
Sounds like a signal integrity issue is forcing the USB to run at 10 Mbps on those two laptops. Have you tried another USB stick ? Or different ports on the malfunctioning laptops ? There is little on the motherboard which can affect these ports --- they run from the connector to the Via companion chip (VX855). Perhaps this is due to ESD damage of the VX855 itself... Regards, wad On Feb 14, 2012, at 8:47 AM, Kevin Gordon wrote: No, this email is not about my generally weird behaviour, it's about a couple of my new XO 1.5's :-) I have 2 x XO 1.5's that seem to have a very slow USB transfer rate; like, I mean glacial. I use the same USB build sticks to build many XO 1.5's, but on these particular two it takes close to an hour to do a refresh, or sometimes just stops in the middle of the refresh block colour animation - regardless of the stick used. I have many times verified that the same sticks refresh in normal time, on about 8 other 1.5s. All the XO's are currently at the default 883 build with q3b11 when doing this refresh test. I then suspected maybe main memory, but then a refresh from the SD card slots on these same two suspect machines is lightning fast, (in fact way faster than I've ever seen using USB), and the machine seems to be successfully built. However, I've also then done just a USB copy from another stick down to the file system, and it too is really, really slow, if and when when it finishes. The standard short-cut key at boot-time diagnostics show no errors. Any hints? Thanks KG ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Weird behaviour
On Tue, Feb 14, 2012 at 11:43 AM, John Watlington w...@laptop.org wrote: Sounds like a signal integrity issue is forcing the USB to run at 10 Mbps on those two laptops. Have you tried another USB stick ? Or different ports on the malfunctioning laptops ? All three ports act on each machine act consistently. All 10 USB sticks act consistently. There is little on the motherboard which can affect these ports --- they run from the connector to the Via companion chip (VX855). Perhaps this is due to ESD damage of the VX855 itself... I have spare machines, would you be interested in my sending these back to you for investigation? I can mail them down, my cost. KG Regards, wad On Feb 14, 2012, at 8:47 AM, Kevin Gordon wrote: No, this email is not about my generally weird behaviour, it's about a couple of my new XO 1.5's :-) I have 2 x XO 1.5's that seem to have a very slow USB transfer rate; like, I mean glacial. I use the same USB build sticks to build many XO 1.5's, but on these particular two it takes close to an hour to do a refresh, or sometimes just stops in the middle of the refresh block colour animation - regardless of the stick used. I have many times verified that the same sticks refresh in normal time, on about 8 other 1.5s. All the XO's are currently at the default 883 build with q3b11 when doing this refresh test. I then suspected maybe main memory, but then a refresh from the SD card slots on these same two suspect machines is lightning fast, (in fact way faster than I've ever seen using USB), and the machine seems to be successfully built. However, I've also then done just a USB copy from another stick down to the file system, and it too is really, really slow, if and when when it finishes. The standard short-cut key at boot-time diagnostics show no errors. Any hints? Thanks KG ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
XO-1.75 ramp units -- get one now!
We have a batch of RAMP units for people to play with! Develop, hack, report bugs, take them to the park when you walk your dog! And write notes on how it works, file bugs, help us test our builds. Want one? Same drill as before! http://blog.laptop.org/2011/07/25/new-xo-1-75-contributors-program-test-our-new-prototypes/ (If you already received an XO-1.75 prototype, no need to reapply!) Did you apply for one late last year, and didn't get it? We'll get one out to you now! (Late last year we were a bit too busy, and we dropped the ball on the Contributors' programme logistics. Apologies if this affected you; we'll make up for it... sending you a ramp unit :-) ) cheers, m -- mar...@laptop.org -- Software Architect - OLPC - ask interesting questions - don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
[Server-devel] ejabberd pubsub/persist issue - update
Hi, Just to put some notes on-record about the current ejabberd fork situation: ejabber-2.1.10 out of the box doesn't work right with presence. A user who connects to the network will only see the presence of users who connect afterwards, he will not see the presence of the users who were already on the network. The new client receives name and presence information about the older contacts, but doesn't receive their OLPC-specific key and buddy info (via pubsub), so doesn't display them in Sugar. I found that enabling mod_pubsub's last_item_cache helps a lot here (we definitely want to do this). Now the buddy-properties on_sub_and_presence pubsub events are received by a new client for all existing users in the roster when he connects. However, there are still some issues. I think there are 3 bugs, all in different places: 1. Sugar receives those on_sub_and_presence events for neighbour clients before it has had a chance to process the fact that those neighbours exist, so it throws away that data (with an exception in the logs). 2. Telepathy doesn't cache those events (as far as I can see), and I think the events could even happen before Sugar has had a chance to start listening. 3. In the case of 2 Sugar clients connecting together on a server, ejabberd does seem to generate events telling each other about the key/color info of the other client. However, there is something not quite right with ejabberd's behaviour here. If I put 1 Sugar client on a jabber server, then I connect my GNOME desktop (via empathy) to the same server, monitoring the traffic between the server and my desktop with tcpdump, the jabber server doesn't send me pubsub events about the Sugar client's buddy-property data as it should. Must be an ejabberd bug. Needs further investigation and then an ejabberd bug filed upstream. Why this worked before: Older versions of ejabberd stored all pubsub-published information persistently on disk, even when the publisher never asked for that (as is true in this case). If Sugar missed or threw away the events received upon connecting to a network, it didn't matter because Sugar queried the server later for the same info on a buddy-by-buddy basis. As the data was stored consistently this worked fine, the server was able to provide the data again. (Now that the data is not stored persistently, when Sugar makes such queries, the server provides an empty response, which I think is spec-compliant) https://support.process-one.net/browse/EJAB-1533 https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=45853 For now we will stay with ejabberd-2.1.10-1.olpc1 which readds the old ejabberd bug that persists the pubsub data on disk. Daniel ___ Server-devel mailing list server-de...@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/server-devel
Re: Weird behaviour
I agree, it seems likely to be a hardware problem with USB. You said file copy from USB to the filesystem was just as slow. Is that using OpenFirmware or Linux? I'm expecting you used Linux. We made some USB changes in OpenFirmware, but these ought not to have had this effect, and should have no effect at all on Linux. Yet, I am interested to know what version of OpenFirmware is on the units. -- For your interest, next time you need it, there's an OpenFirmware test feature for checking the fs-update transfer rates from USB. ok null-fsdisk fs-update u:\fs.zd What it does is read the data from USB and then discard it. That way you can exclude the time otherwise spent writing to the internal microSD or eMMC. The feature was recently fixed (10th Feb 2012) so use firmware after that date. I didn't go back to find when it broke. -- James Cameron http://quozl.linux.org.au/ ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [OLPC-AU] lid close while shutting down
On 15 February 2012 02:30, Martin Langhoff martin.langh...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Feb 14, 2012 at 8:12 AM, Sridhar Dhanapalan srid...@laptop.org.au wrote: What about if it's also charging in an XOP rack? Tell people your actual adventure, all details. The time of the OLPC team is valuable; we try to help you, but we have a lot of other things on our table. Help us help you. I'm dealing directly with OLPCA on this. You'll see the messages :) Sridhar ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Server-devel] initial notes on 0.7
On Sun, Feb 12, 2012 at 2:18 AM, Sameer Verma sve...@sfsu.edu wrote: Problem: XS seems to cause XOv1 computers to repeatedly restart X (brief text messages say something about dcon freeze?) Happening to both XO-1 and XO-1.5 running build 883. XO 1.5 HS with build 852 was unaffected. I've been running 6 XOs with this build for ~8 hours now, and haven't seen this problem. Would be interested in logs if you can reproduce. Thanks, Daniel ___ Server-devel mailing list Server-devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/server-devel
[Server-devel] Old mirror URLs fixed
Hi, As reported several times here, running yum update on XS-0.6 or older wasn't working. This should now be fixed - the old URLs should continue to work even though we have moved things to a different server. Testing confirmation welcome! Thanks, Daniel ___ Server-devel mailing list Server-devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/server-devel
Re: [Server-devel] XS-0.7 beta 1 released
On Tue, 2012-02-14 at 16:39 -0600, Daniel Drake wrote: Hi, http://wiki.laptop.org/go/XS_Installing_Software_0.7 now includes instructions and a working link for a XS-0.7 beta install CD. You can also create USB install media easier than before, and this works great. Also, a couple of packages in the repo have been updated since last week (yum update should work fine for existing installs to pull them in) fixing a couple of minor bugs. This version will be deployed in 6 test schools on Thursday/Friday here in Managua. I hope to label this version as 0.7 final (if Martin approves) on Monday morning, to be installed that day on 13 servers sent to the island of Ometepe the day after. Any last-minute testing appreciated. Thanks, Daniel Hi Daniel: Just downloaded the install iso, before I burn this to cd should /isolinux/initrd.img and /images/pxeboot/vmlinuz be 0 bytes in the iso? In /isolinux/isolinux.cfg, upgradeany is used with full install options, think that will force anaconda into upgrade mode. Jerry ___ Server-devel mailing list Server-devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/server-devel
Re: [Server-devel] XS-0.7 beta 1 released
CD? Haven't used one of those for a while. You might use it as a media file for VirtualBox or some other software, in order to avoid burning to CD. -- James Cameron http://quozl.linux.org.au/ ___ Server-devel mailing list Server-devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/server-devel
Re: [Server-devel] XS-0.7 beta 1 released
On Tue, Feb 14, 2012 at 6:55 PM, James Cameron qu...@laptop.org wrote: CD? Haven't used one of those for a while. You might use it as a media file for VirtualBox or some other software, in order to avoid burning to CD. Heh. What you do, is use livecd-iso-to-disk to prep a USB stick as a bootable installer. m -- martin.langh...@gmail.com mar...@laptop.org -- Software Architect - OLPC - ask interesting questions - don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff ___ Server-devel mailing list Server-devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/server-devel
