Re: [Sugar-devel] On Sugar 0.84 - status of the Chat/collab leader issue...
On Tue, 2009-11-03 at 15:19 +0100, Martin Langhoff wrote: On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 2:41 PM, Gary C Martin g...@garycmartin.com wrote: Other activities that support some form of collaboration like Chat, Browse, Etoys, TurtleArt, Arithmetic, Maze, Pippy, etc, etc, don't care who started the activity first, or who goes away. Are you positive about this? I don't meant to troll -- but I am seeing issues (with Chat for example) where if the leader goes, 3rd parties cannot join anymore. I tried to make rejoining work with Write, but ran into bugs into both the PS and Telepathy Gabble. For the PS bug, tomeu has a patch but it never went in. The Telepathy gabble bug prevented you from rejoining an existing tube, so it could never have worked for any application (including chat). The Telepathy gabble bug is fixed in F11 and F12, but I did not test if Write rejoining now works (it could still have bugs, simply because I could never test it). Cheers, Marc ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Write Collaboration - what is known to work / what is not?
On Sat, 2008-08-30 at 10:47 +0200, Marco Pesenti Gritti wrote: Martin Langhoff wrote: We've had a few attempts to share Write ( http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Write ) with the Wellington test crowd, and there are a number of cases that don't seem to work well, but I'm not sure what the state of things is, and what is expected to work. The Wiki page doesn't say much either on what aspects of collaboration are working. I'm happy to file these as bugs, but I don't want to burden the tracker with stuff that is not in the design :-) In brief things work for the simple case, but for example - if the initial creator/sharer of the doc goes away, remaining users can continue editing, but don't 'share' the updates any more. There is no UI indication that things have changed. I *think* that's a limitation which will be addressed in a future version of abicollab. Mark? Yes, see my reply here: http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/8160#comment:2 It's *far* from trivial, so given that I'm implementing this in my spare time, I can't give a timeframe yet. - Should invitees keep a copy in their journal and be able to resume it in private? I'm not sure to understand what you mean here. If i understand correctly, this should already work. Every collaborator will get an entry in his/her journal automatically. Marc ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
RE: [sugar] Programming environments on the XO
On Sat, 2008-08-02 at 13:10 +1000, Martin Sevior wrote: Hi everyone, I'm perfectly willing to do this work but how I can be sure it will actually be used? What do we need to do to get libabiword updated? sugar-jhbuild uses an ancient patched tree dating from November last year. We've released 2.6.4 3 weeks ago with *tons* of bug fixes on that. Afaik, 2.6.4 is on the images What version is actually being shipped with sucrose? What do we need to do to get it updated? Someone should just update jhbuild... i could do that when i find some spare time and motivaten; feel free to beat me to it. I'd just like to know what I need to do to get the required libabiword into the tree so that this feature can be implemented. We'll need to backport the featured to 2.6.x first. Will do that soonish as well. Marc ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [sugar] Programming environments on the XO
On Sat, 2008-08-02 at 16:47 +0200, J.M. Maurer wrote: What version is actually being shipped with sucrose? What do we need to do to get it updated? Someone should just update jhbuild... i could do that when i find some spare time and motivaten; feel free to beat me to it. Updated jhbuild to abiword 2.6.4. Let's hope we can get the coloring per collaborator in 2.6.5, or at least 2.6.6. Marc ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
RE: [sugar] Programming environments on the XO
On Thu, 2008-07-31 at 21:37 +1000, Martin Edmund Sevior wrote: Thanks Tomeu and Eben. Yes, we'll need to expand the abiwidget api. I'll look to do this if I can can get sugar-jhbuild to work again. That, or we could just add an 'EditMethod', so we can invoke it using a 'well known' function name. Not sure what the nicest approach is. I'm inclined to expand the api though. Marc ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [sugar] Remarks on the Work of Sugar
On Wed, 2008-07-23 at 09:36 +0200, Simon Schampijer wrote: Write, Read, TamTam, Paint, Record, Memorize to name a few have been really struggling lately. There are probably various reasons for that - one might be I that the activities have been taken out from the base system another one that the overall development has been really fast and no entry points/good documentation could be found. And well, the windows news were not helpful either. You are missing 'funding': Most of Write's development was funded by OLPC, which gave us what we have today. Expecting volunteers to hack on Write is unrealistic at this point. Let me clarify: Write is written in Python and uses the pyabiword bindings around AbiWord's GTK canvas widget extensively. The GTK widget and pyabiword bindings were extended as I went along, to expose the functionality Write needed. Currently almost 100% of pyabiword's functionality is used by Write. What this means is that if Write needs new feature X, it will almost always require new functionality to be exposed through pyabiword *and* AbiWord's GTK canvas widget. This will generally be too hard for volunteers who just want to spend a few hours hacking on something fun. Cheers, Marc ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [sugar] Write needs your help (was Re: Programming environments on the XO)
For Firefox, that means (for example) that we can use upstreams Awesome Bar instead of reimplementing our own url completion. For abiword, it means acknowledging that a lot of our initial Tubes port was/is simply unnecessary now that we have a stream-based collaboration mechanism, and we can/should be able to strip down Write as a consequence. Iirc, the collaboration code in Write itself is already tiny these days. Or did I miss something spectacular that changes the way collaboration on the XO works? Marc ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [sugar] Programming environments on the XO
On Thu, 2008-07-17 at 21:41 -0400, Benjamin M. Schwartz wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Martin Sevior wrote: | Hi Folks, | Just so you know. The only reason for #7447 is because we | haven't put the UI in to enable it. I would like an additional control for background color. Eben, what do you think? | I'm not sure different colors for different users is such a good idea | though. The document will quickly become a mess. Though if the kids | want to do this they can. Have you used Gobby? It's the shared editor that people at OLPC _actually_ use, and having per-user background colors is among its key features. Not sure if I read this correctly, but are you implying that Write's collaboration is not used, but Gobby's is? If so, is there any particular collaboration issue/bug that needs my attention? Marc ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Write needs your help (was Re: [sugar] Programming environments on the XO)
On Thu, 2008-07-17 at 10:16 +0200, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 8:01 AM, Bobby Powers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Marc is a bit of a perfectionist so I'm not sure how usable 95% of the work is and whether it could be finished by simply using it and providing bug reports as needed would be. Is this something the community could help with? I know myself and maybe another person or two who would be willing to help if it was clear what else needed to be done. There is 1 issue in abiword's layout engine that prevents this from being finished. Martin and I discussed it on IRC, and we might have a way to do it. It needs some more explicit designing before we should implement it though. As for me being a perfectionist: I don't want to allow hacks in the code that fix a particular problem now, but will haunt us in the future :) Martin and Marc will know better about the syntax highlighting stuff, but if you can help with the very important activity that Write is, please consider properly packaging pyabiword for fedora (and other distros): http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PackageMaintainers/WishList#OLPC_Wishlist We are using a _really_ old prerelease tarball of abiword: 2.6.0.svn20071127 . The Abi guys have already released 2.6.4 :/ I'm working on pushing proper packages in Fedora as we speak. It could take a few days before it's finished as this is all spare time work. AbiSource Corporation employees (read: me) can be hired though *hint* :-) Marc ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [sugar] Programming environments on the XO
On Sat, 2008-07-19 at 18:02 -0400, Benjamin M. Schwartz wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 J.M. Maurer wrote: | Have you used Gobby? It's the shared editor that people at OLPC | _actually_ use, and having per-user background colors is among its key | features. | | Not sure if I read this correctly, but are you implying that Write's | collaboration is not used, but Gobby's is? Yes. OLPC developers may have been using Write for collaborative document authoring, but I am not aware of it. I am aware of several occasions on which Gobby has been used for this purpose, for example for preparing minutes for a meeting on IRC. But does this hold for kids as well? After all, they are the primary audience for Write. | If so, is there any | particular collaboration issue/bug that needs my attention? Not a bug. There are two issues: 1. To the best of my knowledge, Write's collaboration system does not interoperate with any application that is available on non-Sugar desktops. Well, the AbiCollab plugin existed before Write did, so making Write 'interoperate' with AbiWord would be trivial (in fact, they are exactly the same). ~ Thus, in order to make use of Write, all participants must have an XO, emulator, or sugar-jhbuild running. I do not see this as a significant obstacle in a Rwandan elementary school, but in the diverse environments of OLPC volunteers, we cannot assume that everyone has easy access to a Sugar instance. In my view, the ultimate solution to this is to push our Telepathy-based collaboration stack upstream into the standard Linux desktop environments. ~ Until then, we should come up with a streamlined Sugar emulator that makes it easy to run an Activity like Write under any standard Linux desktop. There is no technical reason at all that Write could not be made to collaborate with normal AbiWord's. Technically, it already works. There is just no UI that currently exposes it. One could for example add a UI that would allow Write to use abicollab.net's service. This way normal AbiWord users could interoperate trivially with Write, on a global scale. This already works *now*, and has been built from the ground up to scale. Millions of users should be no problem at all for the service. What I'm trying to say: Write's collaboration protocol is *exactly* the same as AbiWord's protocol. 2. Sugar collaboration over the internet requires a specialized Jabber server. It has proven difficult to set up such a server at all, and impossible to set up a server that can be made public without collapsing under the load. Hopefully, after the Gadget work is complete, we will begin to see reliable public collaboration servers appear. I've always been of the opinion that using Jabber for this sort of thing was a bad choice. That's why we don't depend on it anymore. Marc - --Ben -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkiCZHkACgkQUJT6e6HFtqSjfQCfaoF+5IbBo6aFsRFwX5LV6jOb vmoAoIZ/VhpLCcygbI1eHQa2jjzLo99k =DkVL -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [sugar] Where is Walter?
On Wed, 2008-04-23 at 14:05 +0200, Bobby Powers wrote: I'm new around here, but it seems like this whole conversation is based on a bunch of what-ifs surrounding that AP article. People generally seem on the same page that switching to Windows and non-free software would be a Bad Thing. Maybe we could take a break from talking about the sky falling until we hear something from Negroponte or someone else at 1CC regarding Windows? A clear statement on the direction of the project would be a first in the 1.5 years I'm involved with OLPC. I don't count on it anymore. Marc ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [sugar] Where is Walter?
On Wed, 2008-04-23 at 08:05 -0700, Joshua N Pritikin wrote: On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 04:31:30PM +0200, J.M. Maurer wrote: On Wed, 2008-04-23 at 14:05 +0200, Bobby Powers wrote: Maybe we could take a break from talking about the sky falling until we hear something from Negroponte or someone else at 1CC regarding Windows? A clear statement on the direction of the project would be a first in the 1.5 years I'm involved with OLPC. I don't count on it anymore. If you can't see the obvious, that OLPC has invested and continues to invest engineering talent in Sugar and related technologies, then I can't imagine what kind of statement would reassure you. Until there is clear evidence to the contrary (not just rumors and wild speculation), I think we can and should assume that OLPC continues to march towards free software constructivist learning. Assuming/hoping that OLPC is following the aforementioned direction does not really help motivating unpaid volunteers (on which OLPC depends heavily!). If the recent media attention about a possible focus change (and for some the speculation around Ivan's and Walter's leave) did not happen, then I'd agree with you. But it did happen, so now people want to be reassured that their *very precious spare time* will not be wasted. Cheers, Marc ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [sugar] Notes on joyride-258 and 630
First, Write and all the MaMaMedia activities appear to be broken by a failing attempt to 'import abiword' that kills all these activities as they start. Whoever is supposed to be supplying that 'abiword' python package needs to fix his or her RPM. Abiword has been completely removed in 257. Looks like uwog ChangeLog is missing the footers, maybe that's the issue. Can we publish the joyride logs so that these problems are more easily catched? Nice catch. I was already wondering why my packages were removed, and cscott didn't reply to my mails. Would be nice if there was a mail alias that was read by a couple of people that have a clue about the build process. Or do we have mailing list for build issues? Cheers, Marc ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [sugar] First impressions of a B4 machine
Next is AbiWord. Why was it not stripped of support for most file formats? Microsoft Word .doc is proprietary and should be removed, not to mention it's useless for children using XO -- none of their classmates or teachers will be using Microsoft Word. AbiWord's own format should be removed because its useless for interoperability It is _required_ for collaboration, so it can't even technically be removed. and ODT does a fine job by itself. ... that's why has been the default for 2 months now. RTF? Who uses RTF these days? The whole web is filled with it. This is all bloat and has no point for the children. I tend disagree. OpenDocument should be the default format for saving new documents and open older ones. It already is HTML support makes sense if children will put stuff on the Web, and if so, HTML should be kept in its simple form, no Multipart HTML crap, which doesn't even work on XULRunner, anyway. Plain text support is always a good idea, after all, Linux is all about editing text files :) However, I have no idea what Encoded Text is. That's why encoded text is not in the UI. Other character sets besides ANSI? Useless. It only confuses the children. Agreed, see above. Appropriate handling of character encodings should not force seperate text formats. Actually it's not even a problem anymore with Unicode around. If it could export PDF as OpenOffice does then Abi would become quite useful. That's not the case, right now. I heard there's an unofficial plugin to do this. Maybe worth looking at? No need fo unofficial plugin: AbiWord core can already save PDF's, but currently printing support is disabled altogether. We require libgnomeprint for PDF output. I'm willing to enable this if the need arises. Regards, Marc ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
