Re: [Production] Amharic input
On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 7:03 PM, Behdad Esfahbod <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Wed, 2008-04-30 at 22:54 +0200, Bernie Innocenti wrote: > > > Behdad is also on cc because > > I remember he was quite a guru of these things (let us > > know if you just want to be left in peace). > > Thanks for adding. I never mind. > > Excuse my ignorance; I'm not familiar with Amharic requirements. I > think the question comes down to whether the Amharic keyboard layout is > enough or whether an input method is needed. If keyboard layout is > enough, then just removing the input method from GTK+ seems to do it. The Ethiopian writing system is a syllabary with 345 characters, and does not fit on a keyboard layout. There is a SCIM IME for Amharic, and one called EZ+. http://wiki.laptop.org/go/SCIM#Ethiopic.2FAmharic Numerous other methods of entering Amharic exist, using different encodings and keyboard layouts, and non-Unicode fonts. Some of these methods are used on Web sites, including e-mail, providing their own methods for typing. A Latin alphabet keyboard such as standard US QWERTY can be used for these. What was the question? > -- > behdad > http://behdad.org/ > > "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little > Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." > -- Benjamin Franklin, 1759 > > ___ > Devel mailing list > Devel@lists.laptop.org > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel > -- Edward Cherlin End Poverty at a Profit by teaching children business http://www.EarthTreasury.org/ "The best way to predict the future is to invent it."--Alan Kay ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Production] Amharic input
Hi Kim, Judging by the fact that AbiWord (Write) won't let you enter English characters, I suspect that the Gtk IM is permently triggered. I would guess that somehow we need to overide the locale seen by environment for the English characters to be entered. With regards to Write, I don't believe that setting the locale accessible from UI as it currently stands. However if you manage to set the locale to en_US and start a new Write session it will likely accept English. Cheers Martin 2008/5/1 Kim Quirk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > Using Build 703 + G1G1 activities; the terminal acitivity, pippy, and > abiword were all tested and I can't figure out how to get English > characters. US/English characters show up only in linux virtual terminal. > > Even after a cleaninstall to 703, typing in the NAME: is only available in > ahmeric. > > I set the mfg-data just as Quanta is setting it, based on the values from > the mfg-data table: > > KMKLKVLOSKU(s)KA Reference > olpcus,etolpc2,basicam_ET.UTF-811us > Then do the cleaninstall (Arjun - did you do a cleaninstall after you set > the values for keyboard??). > > Can't get US/English characters in Pippy, Terminal, AbiWord activities. But > I did get English numbers (top row). The other characters look like I am > getting an alternate font when I toggle the character change key... just not > the one I want to match the keyboard (English). > > Thanks for any ideas, > Kim > > ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Production] Amharic input
On Wed, 2008-04-30 at 22:54 +0200, Bernie Innocenti wrote: > Behdad is also on cc because > I remember he was quite a guru of these things (let us > know if you just want to be left in peace). Thanks for adding. I never mind. Excuse my ignorance; I'm not familiar with Amharic requirements. I think the question comes down to whether the Amharic keyboard layout is enough or whether an input method is needed. If keyboard layout is enough, then just removing the input method from GTK+ seems to do it. -- behdad http://behdad.org/ "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." -- Benjamin Franklin, 1759 ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Production] Amharic input
Which Write version are we talking about here exactly? I know the Write
version in sugar-jhbuild includes a big Amharic IM patch from Tomas
Frydrych, which I doubt is in any of the production builds at the
moment. Maybe that solves part of the problem?
As for the context menu: it was removed following some UI guidelines I
got from (iirc) Eben. Some sort of stripped down context menu should be
added back imo, as we also lost our spelling suggestions with removing
it.
Marc
On Wed, 2008-04-30 at 22:54 +0200, Bernie Innocenti wrote:
> We need *way* more people in this thread if we want to get
> out of it! ;-)
>
> Sorry for the excessive quoting: it's to give Martin, Uwog
> and Sergey the whole context. Behdad is also on cc because
> I remember he was quite a guru of these things (let us
> know if you just want to be left in peace).
>
> I'd also be inclined to add devel@ because there seems to
> be little reason to keep this discretion confidential.
> Anyone opposed?
>
> ---8<---
>
> Arjun Sarwal wrote:
>
> > In my opinion this is something to do with using the correct font in
> > Abiword. Bernie can perhaps comment better.
>
> Yes, there was quite a catch!
>
> If I remember correctly, AbiWord automatically switches to the
> AM+ GTK input method when LANG=am_ET.UTF-8.
>
> The AM+ input method is designed to let you type in Amharic
> using a US keyboard layout. So you'd get the Amharic characters
> either way!
>
> Even worse, when you switch to the "am" layout, the input
> method gets confused and should be turned off. To enable this,
> there used to be a context menu to switch input methods, but it
> went away in recent versions of the Write activity (I guess
> intentionally, to be more compliant with our HIG). You may be
> able to experiment more with the GTK edit widgets, which have
> the menu still enabled.
>
> There was also a newer version of the AM+ input method in
> the works, but I can't remember who was working on it. Jim
> may have memory of it.
>
> To summarize: there's inconsistency/confusion between these
> three things: the "am" xkb layout, AbiWord and the GTK input
> method. In addition, eToys and other non-GTK activities will
> not be able to use the input method. I'm unsure about Browse
> because it's GTK, but through xulrunner. Which means it may
> have problems of its own.
>
> I've been tracking these unsolved problems in my wiki:
> http://www.codewiz.org/wiki/EthiopianLocale
>
> There are should also be a few bugs open in our Trac and
> elsewhere. See the wiki page for references. Sorry I've let
> these issues rot for months without reiterating. There were
> plenty of higher priority blockers for Update.1 at the time,
> and then I got sucked into other things.
>
> I cannot easily make an estimate of the effort required to
> solve all these remaining issues because they mostly affects
> layers above X11 which I'm quite unfamiliar with. Those
> people I added to the Cc list hopefully know better than me.
>
> These things requires a good deal specialized knowledge to
> get right. People like Arjun and myself may try to guess and
> interpolate, but it's really the job of a true i18n engineer,
> or at least someone who has an idea how Amharic input works
> on regular Linux systems.
>
>
> > Can you please confirm if you are observing exactly the same behavior
> > as you described in the test above, in repeating the test in Terminal
> > Activity ?
>
> What OLPC build are we talking about, by the way? Ethiopian
> had far more problems in Ship.{1,2} than in the later builds
> that eventually became Update.1.
>
>
>
> > thanks,
> > Arjun
> >
> >> Does that help figure out what is going on?
> >>
> >> Kim
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> 2008/4/30 Arjun Sarwal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> >>
> >>
> >>> 2008/5/1 Kim Quirk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> >>>
> Arjun, Mitch,
> I set the mfg-data to that which is found on:
> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Mfg-data for ethiopia; then
> reboot and reimaged 703... I am doing thi s on a B4 and can't get
> >> English
> characters. This was using the info Mitch provided (which I have been
> >> using
> to test mfg-data for a while now).
>
> I haven't tried the KA setting... so I will try that next.
>
> Thank you for providing the location where this is kept. My
> /etc/sysconfig/keyboard file looks like this:
>
> KEYTABLE="us"
> XKB_MODEL="olpc"
>
> XKB_LAYOUT="us,et"
> XKB_VARIANT="olpc2,basic"
>
> Is the KEYTABLE the problem?
> >>> No, it seems fine. I had just included the two lines to be changed in my
> >> email.
> >>> The complete /etc/sysconfig/keyboard file should like like this after
> >> editing --
> >>>
> >>> KEYTABLE="us"
> >>> XKB_MODEL="olpc"
> >>> XKB_LAYOUT="us,et"
> >>> XKB_VARIANT="olpc2,basic"
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> On my laptop the virtual linux terminal is in english... All the sugar
> typing is ONLY ethiopian characters.
Re: [Production] Amharic input
/etc/sysconfig/keyboard is: KEYTABLE="us" XKB_MODEL="olpc" XKB_LAYOUT="us,et" XKB_VARIANT="olpc2,basic" I'll add this to the bug report as well... Arjun and Mitch have already responded that this is correct. kim On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 1:53 AM, Bernie Innocenti <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Kim Quirk wrote: > > OK... after I set the mfg-data for ethiopia and did a cleaninstall, I > > went into the linux virtual terminal and the last line I read is: > > > > "More than one layout variant on command line > > Using "et", ignoring "olpc2,basic" > > > > Seems like it is trying to tell me something... Any ideas? At least I am > > starting to feel like this is a software bug. Just opened a trac bug: > 6945 > > This may be a bug in olpc-configure. What's the contents of > /etc/sysconfig/keyboard? > > It a holiday in Italy and I'm going for out all day for trekking. > Of course I don't mind if someone beats me at patching olpc-utils :-) > > -- >\___/ > _| o | Bernie Innocenti - http://www.codewiz.org/ > \|_X_| "It's an education project, not a laptop project!" > ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Production] Amharic input
The XKB layout itself is not enough. But XKB + XIM is enough, as far as I can tell. So the choice is actually between XKB/us + GtkIM and XKB/am + XIM. The latter seems more universal - it is not bound to particular toolkit. Sergey > Excuse my ignorance; I'm not familiar with Amharic requirements. I > think the question comes down to whether the Amharic keyboard layout is > enough or whether an input method is needed. If keyboard layout is > enough, then just removing the input method from GTK+ seems to do it. ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Production] Amharic input
Kim Quirk wrote: > OK... after I set the mfg-data for ethiopia and did a cleaninstall, I > went into the linux virtual terminal and the last line I read is: > > "More than one layout variant on command line > Using "et", ignoring "olpc2,basic" > > Seems like it is trying to tell me something... Any ideas? At least I am > starting to feel like this is a software bug. Just opened a trac bug: 6945 This may be a bug in olpc-configure. What's the contents of /etc/sysconfig/keyboard? It a holiday in Italy and I'm going for out all day for trekking. Of course I don't mind if someone beats me at patching olpc-utils :-) -- \___/ _| o | Bernie Innocenti - http://www.codewiz.org/ \|_X_| "It's an education project, not a laptop project!" ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
