Re: [Server-devel] physical security issue
On Thu, Oct 9, 2008 at 2:59 PM, Pia Waugh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, quote who=John Watlington We currently do not recommend that an AA be used in schools. Scalability with AAs is a problem, due to problems with the mesh protocols. Hence my comment about likely needing an external USB/network interface for the upstream connection. This might make the physical security problem easier to solve, as now the server can be located anywhere in the school, and only the AP needs to be positioned for optimum wireless coverage. I'm doing a reasonable AA trial and I'll post how it goes to the list soon. It seems to be working quite well though in initial tests. How many XOs? -- Sameer Cheers, Pia -- OLPC Australia http://olpc.org.au/ Linux Australia http://linux.org.au/ Open Source Industry Australia http://osia.net.au/ Software Freedom Day http://softwarefreedomday.org/ I dig your vibe. - Rove McManus to Ice T ___ Server-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/server-devel
Re: [Server-devel] physical security issue
Hi all, quote who=Sameer Verma I'm doing a reasonable AA trial and I'll post how it goes to the list soon. It seems to be working quite well though in initial tests. How many XOs? At the moment the most to one AA is 45, and it was weird because with an earlier version of the XO software only up to 20 at a time could talk to each other, but the newer images all talk just fine (no changes to the AA or server). So 45 now work perfectly with 1 AA. It will likely grow to a 120 laptops to 2 AA's in a month or two, both will be fully documented. I'm plannning on writing up all my network diagrams, configs and the rest on wiki.laptop.org in the coming week or two as the initial implementation is being finalised this week. Cheers, Pia -- OLPC Australia http://olpc.org.au/ Linux Australia http://linux.org.au/ Open Source Industry Australia http://osia.net.au/ Software Freedom Day http://softwarefreedomday.org/ We are the facilitators of our own creative evolution. - Bill Hicks ___ Server-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/server-devel
Re: [Server-devel] physical security issue
On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 8:42 PM, John Watlington [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Actually, Walter, we still hold hope for XOs as school servers for very small schools.The problem with this is insufficient memory and insufficient disk space. While an external disk may alleviate the second problem, it has poor reliability and is a very attractive item for theft. But there is nothing stopping a regular laptop from serving as a school server. An external network interface may be needed for the upstream connection. wad We do have a laptop (Fujitsu P2120@ approx. 900MHz Crusoe + 384 MB RAM) that works as a school server (XS 0.4) for OLPC-SF meetings, but it doesn't see more than 20~30 laptops via one AA, so scalability isn't something we've tested on it. Of course, if the laptop were more powerful and had more RAM, it should scale up. A couple of people at OLPC-SF have suggested alternatives like the one I mentioned for places that can afford to have a lot of bandwidth dropped in (donated) by a provider. I just wanted to ping the list and see if anyone else has thought along this route. If/when anything develops on our end, I'll post it here. cheers, Sameer -- Dr. Sameer Verma, Ph.D. Associate Professor of Information Systems San Francisco State University San Francisco CA 94132 USA http://verma.sfsu.edu/ http://opensource.sfsu.edu/ On Oct 7, 2008, at 11:25 PM, Walter Bender wrote: Clarification: the XO is not the laptop I am proposing for the server. Wad can speak to this. -walter On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 11:24 PM, Walter Bender [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: One idealet (not worthy of being called an idea): What if the server were a laptop that the teacher could take with him/her? Pros: The school need not be secure. Cons: Price, and of course, laptops can be stolen. But it does put the server in the hands of a presumably trusted individual in the community. -walter On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 11:20 PM, Sameer Verma [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 8:00 PM, John Watlington [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You keep pushing for centrally hosted school servers. Are you sure you don't work for the phone company ? Last time I checked, San Francisco State University wasn't in the telco business. Again, unless you have a 100 Mbit connection from the school to the upstream ISP, you will need something with a disk and a significant amount of memory present in the school. OK. I don't disagree about the need for physical security of the machine, just the proposed solution. OK. Any other solutions? I'm all ears. Sameer wad On Oct 7, 2008, at 10:47 PM, Sameer Verma wrote: As if discussions on this list aren't lively enough, here's another issue to look at. While I was in Jamaica, I met with several people who work with their school districts, and many pointed out that if a server was to stay physically resident at the school, it will need a lot of physical security. The most common problem is theft. The other problem will be physical damage (just because somebody can). It is not uncommon in some of these If the school server is hosted at an ISP upstream, we need something small (maybe an XO?) at the school that can VLAN or VPN over to the school server at the ISP/Data Center. Any ideas? cheers, Sameer -- Dr. Sameer Verma, Ph.D. Associate Professor of Information Systems San Francisco State University San Francisco CA 94132 USA http://verma.sfsu.edu/ http://opensource.sfsu.edu/ ___ Server-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/server-devel ___ Server-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/server-devel -- Walter Bender Sugar Labs http://www.sugarlabs.org -- Walter Bender Sugar Labs http://www.sugarlabs.org ___ Server-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/server-devel
Re: [Server-devel] physical security issue
Sameer, We currently do not recommend that an AA be used in schools. Scalability with AAs is a problem, due to problems with the mesh protocols. Hence my comment about likely needing an external USB/network interface for the upstream connection. This might make the physical security problem easier to solve, as now the server can be located anywhere in the school, and only the AP needs to be positioned for optimum wireless coverage. wad On Oct 8, 2008, at 1:23 PM, Sameer Verma wrote: On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 8:42 PM, John Watlington [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Actually, Walter, we still hold hope for XOs as school servers for very small schools.The problem with this is insufficient memory and insufficient disk space. While an external disk may alleviate the second problem, it has poor reliability and is a very attractive item for theft. But there is nothing stopping a regular laptop from serving as a school server. An external network interface may be needed for the upstream connection. wad We do have a laptop (Fujitsu P2120@ approx. 900MHz Crusoe + 384 MB RAM) that works as a school server (XS 0.4) for OLPC-SF meetings, but it doesn't see more than 20~30 laptops via one AA, so scalability isn't something we've tested on it. Of course, if the laptop were more powerful and had more RAM, it should scale up. A couple of people at OLPC-SF have suggested alternatives like the one I mentioned for places that can afford to have a lot of bandwidth dropped in (donated) by a provider. I just wanted to ping the list and see if anyone else has thought along this route. If/when anything develops on our end, I'll post it here. cheers, Sameer -- Dr. Sameer Verma, Ph.D. Associate Professor of Information Systems San Francisco State University San Francisco CA 94132 USA http://verma.sfsu.edu/ http://opensource.sfsu.edu/ On Oct 7, 2008, at 11:25 PM, Walter Bender wrote: Clarification: the XO is not the laptop I am proposing for the server. Wad can speak to this. -walter On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 11:24 PM, Walter Bender [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: One idealet (not worthy of being called an idea): What if the server were a laptop that the teacher could take with him/her? Pros: The school need not be secure. Cons: Price, and of course, laptops can be stolen. But it does put the server in the hands of a presumably trusted individual in the community. -walter On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 11:20 PM, Sameer Verma [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 8:00 PM, John Watlington [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You keep pushing for centrally hosted school servers. Are you sure you don't work for the phone company ? Last time I checked, San Francisco State University wasn't in the telco business. Again, unless you have a 100 Mbit connection from the school to the upstream ISP, you will need something with a disk and a significant amount of memory present in the school. OK. I don't disagree about the need for physical security of the machine, just the proposed solution. OK. Any other solutions? I'm all ears. Sameer wad On Oct 7, 2008, at 10:47 PM, Sameer Verma wrote: As if discussions on this list aren't lively enough, here's another issue to look at. While I was in Jamaica, I met with several people who work with their school districts, and many pointed out that if a server was to stay physically resident at the school, it will need a lot of physical security. The most common problem is theft. The other problem will be physical damage (just because somebody can). It is not uncommon in some of these If the school server is hosted at an ISP upstream, we need something small (maybe an XO?) at the school that can VLAN or VPN over to the school server at the ISP/Data Center. Any ideas? cheers, Sameer -- Dr. Sameer Verma, Ph.D. Associate Professor of Information Systems San Francisco State University San Francisco CA 94132 USA http://verma.sfsu.edu/ http://opensource.sfsu.edu/ ___ Server-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/server-devel ___ Server-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/server-devel -- Walter Bender Sugar Labs http://www.sugarlabs.org -- Walter Bender Sugar Labs http://www.sugarlabs.org ___ Server-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/server-devel
Re: [Server-devel] physical security issue
Recommend: lockable, secure case, with built-in securement loops that could attach to a bike chain or cable. --HH. On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 1:37 PM, John Watlington [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sameer, We currently do not recommend that an AA be used in schools. Scalability with AAs is a problem, due to problems with the mesh protocols. Hence my comment about likely needing an external USB/network interface for the upstream connection. This might make the physical security problem easier to solve, as now the server can be located anywhere in the school, and only the AP needs to be positioned for optimum wireless coverage. wad On Oct 8, 2008, at 1:23 PM, Sameer Verma wrote: On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 8:42 PM, John Watlington [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Actually, Walter, we still hold hope for XOs as school servers for very small schools.The problem with this is insufficient memory and insufficient disk space. While an external disk may alleviate the second problem, it has poor reliability and is a very attractive item for theft. But there is nothing stopping a regular laptop from serving as a school server. An external network interface may be needed for the upstream connection. wad We do have a laptop (Fujitsu P2120@ approx. 900MHz Crusoe + 384 MB RAM) that works as a school server (XS 0.4) for OLPC-SF meetings, but it doesn't see more than 20~30 laptops via one AA, so scalability isn't something we've tested on it. Of course, if the laptop were more powerful and had more RAM, it should scale up. A couple of people at OLPC-SF have suggested alternatives like the one I mentioned for places that can afford to have a lot of bandwidth dropped in (donated) by a provider. I just wanted to ping the list and see if anyone else has thought along this route. If/when anything develops on our end, I'll post it here. cheers, Sameer -- Dr. Sameer Verma, Ph.D. Associate Professor of Information Systems San Francisco State University San Francisco CA 94132 USA http://verma.sfsu.edu/ http://opensource.sfsu.edu/ On Oct 7, 2008, at 11:25 PM, Walter Bender wrote: Clarification: the XO is not the laptop I am proposing for the server. Wad can speak to this. -walter On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 11:24 PM, Walter Bender [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: One idealet (not worthy of being called an idea): What if the server were a laptop that the teacher could take with him/her? Pros: The school need not be secure. Cons: Price, and of course, laptops can be stolen. But it does put the server in the hands of a presumably trusted individual in the community. -walter On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 11:20 PM, Sameer Verma [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 8:00 PM, John Watlington [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You keep pushing for centrally hosted school servers. Are you sure you don't work for the phone company ? Last time I checked, San Francisco State University wasn't in the telco business. Again, unless you have a 100 Mbit connection from the school to the upstream ISP, you will need something with a disk and a significant amount of memory present in the school. OK. I don't disagree about the need for physical security of the machine, just the proposed solution. OK. Any other solutions? I'm all ears. Sameer wad On Oct 7, 2008, at 10:47 PM, Sameer Verma wrote: As if discussions on this list aren't lively enough, here's another issue to look at. While I was in Jamaica, I met with several people who work with their school districts, and many pointed out that if a server was to stay physically resident at the school, it will need a lot of physical security. The most common problem is theft. The other problem will be physical damage (just because somebody can). It is not uncommon in some of these If the school server is hosted at an ISP upstream, we need something small (maybe an XO?) at the school that can VLAN or VPN over to the school server at the ISP/Data Center. Any ideas? cheers, Sameer -- Dr. Sameer Verma, Ph.D. Associate Professor of Information Systems San Francisco State University San Francisco CA 94132 USA http://verma.sfsu.edu/ http://opensource.sfsu.edu/ ___ Server-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/server-devel ___ Server-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/server-devel -- Walter Bender Sugar Labs http://www.sugarlabs.org -- Walter Bender Sugar Labs http://www.sugarlabs.org ___ Server-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/server-devel -- Information wants to be free, and code wants to
Re: [Server-devel] physical security issue
On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 3:47 PM, Sameer Verma [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As if discussions on this list aren't lively enough, here's another issue to look at. This has been covered in many discussions - perhaps not so much on this list but it's an important issue. However, there is little we can do from the sw side. This is a physical infrastructure issue, so the local team will know wht the schools look like, building types and available tools. It's also a social issue, so it may be more important in some societies. WRT to moving the XS 'upstream', Wad is right. It will only work in a vanishingly small % of our target schools, so it's not an interesting avenue to pursue. cheers, -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- School Server Architect - ask interesting questions - don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff ___ Server-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/server-devel
Re: [Server-devel] physical security issue
You keep pushing for centrally hosted school servers. Are you sure you don't work for the phone company ? Again, unless you have a 100 Mbit connection from the school to the upstream ISP, you will need something with a disk and a significant amount of memory present in the school. I don't disagree about the need for physical security of the machine, just the proposed solution. wad On Oct 7, 2008, at 10:47 PM, Sameer Verma wrote: As if discussions on this list aren't lively enough, here's another issue to look at. While I was in Jamaica, I met with several people who work with their school districts, and many pointed out that if a server was to stay physically resident at the school, it will need a lot of physical security. The most common problem is theft. The other problem will be physical damage (just because somebody can). It is not uncommon in some of these If the school server is hosted at an ISP upstream, we need something small (maybe an XO?) at the school that can VLAN or VPN over to the school server at the ISP/Data Center. Any ideas? cheers, Sameer -- Dr. Sameer Verma, Ph.D. Associate Professor of Information Systems San Francisco State University San Francisco CA 94132 USA http://verma.sfsu.edu/ http://opensource.sfsu.edu/ ___ Server-devel mailing list Server-devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/server-devel ___ Server-devel mailing list Server-devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/server-devel
Re: [Server-devel] physical security issue
On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 8:00 PM, John Watlington [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You keep pushing for centrally hosted school servers. Are you sure you don't work for the phone company ? Last time I checked, San Francisco State University wasn't in the telco business. Again, unless you have a 100 Mbit connection from the school to the upstream ISP, you will need something with a disk and a significant amount of memory present in the school. OK. I don't disagree about the need for physical security of the machine, just the proposed solution. OK. Any other solutions? I'm all ears. Sameer wad On Oct 7, 2008, at 10:47 PM, Sameer Verma wrote: As if discussions on this list aren't lively enough, here's another issue to look at. While I was in Jamaica, I met with several people who work with their school districts, and many pointed out that if a server was to stay physically resident at the school, it will need a lot of physical security. The most common problem is theft. The other problem will be physical damage (just because somebody can). It is not uncommon in some of these If the school server is hosted at an ISP upstream, we need something small (maybe an XO?) at the school that can VLAN or VPN over to the school server at the ISP/Data Center. Any ideas? cheers, Sameer -- Dr. Sameer Verma, Ph.D. Associate Professor of Information Systems San Francisco State University San Francisco CA 94132 USA http://verma.sfsu.edu/ http://opensource.sfsu.edu/ ___ Server-devel mailing list Server-devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/server-devel ___ Server-devel mailing list Server-devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/server-devel
Re: [Server-devel] physical security issue
One idealet (not worthy of being called an idea): What if the server were a laptop that the teacher could take with him/her? Pros: The school need not be secure. Cons: Price, and of course, laptops can be stolen. But it does put the server in the hands of a presumably trusted individual in the community. -walter On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 11:20 PM, Sameer Verma [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 8:00 PM, John Watlington [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You keep pushing for centrally hosted school servers. Are you sure you don't work for the phone company ? Last time I checked, San Francisco State University wasn't in the telco business. Again, unless you have a 100 Mbit connection from the school to the upstream ISP, you will need something with a disk and a significant amount of memory present in the school. OK. I don't disagree about the need for physical security of the machine, just the proposed solution. OK. Any other solutions? I'm all ears. Sameer wad On Oct 7, 2008, at 10:47 PM, Sameer Verma wrote: As if discussions on this list aren't lively enough, here's another issue to look at. While I was in Jamaica, I met with several people who work with their school districts, and many pointed out that if a server was to stay physically resident at the school, it will need a lot of physical security. The most common problem is theft. The other problem will be physical damage (just because somebody can). It is not uncommon in some of these If the school server is hosted at an ISP upstream, we need something small (maybe an XO?) at the school that can VLAN or VPN over to the school server at the ISP/Data Center. Any ideas? cheers, Sameer -- Dr. Sameer Verma, Ph.D. Associate Professor of Information Systems San Francisco State University San Francisco CA 94132 USA http://verma.sfsu.edu/ http://opensource.sfsu.edu/ ___ Server-devel mailing list Server-devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/server-devel ___ Server-devel mailing list Server-devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/server-devel -- Walter Bender Sugar Labs http://www.sugarlabs.org ___ Server-devel mailing list Server-devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/server-devel
Re: [Server-devel] physical security issue
On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 11:24 PM, Walter Bender [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: One idealet (not worthy of being called an idea): What if the server were a laptop that the teacher could take with him/her? Pros: The school need not be secure. Cons: Price, and of course, laptops can be stolen. But it does put the server in the hands of a presumably trusted individual in the community. One obvious problem is what happens if that teacher doesn't come to work today. In any school with more then one teacher, this would seem to be a potential problem. Bill Bogstad ___ Server-devel mailing list Server-devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/server-devel
Re: [Server-devel] physical security issue
Actually, Walter, we still hold hope for XOs as school servers for very small schools.The problem with this is insufficient memory and insufficient disk space. While an external disk may alleviate the second problem, it has poor reliability and is a very attractive item for theft. But there is nothing stopping a regular laptop from serving as a school server. An external network interface may be needed for the upstream connection. wad On Oct 7, 2008, at 11:25 PM, Walter Bender wrote: Clarification: the XO is not the laptop I am proposing for the server. Wad can speak to this. -walter On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 11:24 PM, Walter Bender [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: One idealet (not worthy of being called an idea): What if the server were a laptop that the teacher could take with him/her? Pros: The school need not be secure. Cons: Price, and of course, laptops can be stolen. But it does put the server in the hands of a presumably trusted individual in the community. -walter On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 11:20 PM, Sameer Verma [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 8:00 PM, John Watlington [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You keep pushing for centrally hosted school servers. Are you sure you don't work for the phone company ? Last time I checked, San Francisco State University wasn't in the telco business. Again, unless you have a 100 Mbit connection from the school to the upstream ISP, you will need something with a disk and a significant amount of memory present in the school. OK. I don't disagree about the need for physical security of the machine, just the proposed solution. OK. Any other solutions? I'm all ears. Sameer wad On Oct 7, 2008, at 10:47 PM, Sameer Verma wrote: As if discussions on this list aren't lively enough, here's another issue to look at. While I was in Jamaica, I met with several people who work with their school districts, and many pointed out that if a server was to stay physically resident at the school, it will need a lot of physical security. The most common problem is theft. The other problem will be physical damage (just because somebody can). It is not uncommon in some of these If the school server is hosted at an ISP upstream, we need something small (maybe an XO?) at the school that can VLAN or VPN over to the school server at the ISP/Data Center. Any ideas? cheers, Sameer -- Dr. Sameer Verma, Ph.D. Associate Professor of Information Systems San Francisco State University San Francisco CA 94132 USA http://verma.sfsu.edu/ http://opensource.sfsu.edu/ ___ Server-devel mailing list Server-devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/server-devel ___ Server-devel mailing list Server-devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/server-devel -- Walter Bender Sugar Labs http://www.sugarlabs.org -- Walter Bender Sugar Labs http://www.sugarlabs.org ___ Server-devel mailing list Server-devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/server-devel
