Re: [Sugar-devel] Keep confusion -- round N+1
On 06/24/2010 01:07 AM, Daniel Drake wrote: On 23 June 2010 15:49, Martin Langhoffmartin.langh...@gmail.com wrote: Continuing on the tradition of Keep confusion, yet again thread http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/2010-April/023440.html I was yesterday in a conf call with the Perú team, who had been working with teachers and were reporting a keep bug on F11/S0.84 images. What was very clear was that both technical team and teachers were confused about the keep button; and they were seeing a bug that increased their confusion. Yep, I'm here in peru and they are facing the same confusion as i've seen all over the world. This button needs to go away. Yes, same observation here in the Planetarium deployment. The kids think that the keep button means 'saving' and they get confused when I say that Sugar saves automatically. +1 too for removing it. Here in Peru they are modifying all of the 30 activities on the laptop to remove the Keep button. (with a little care for the ones where it has alternative functions such as Write -- thats why you can't just take it out of the activity class altogether) Maybe those activities that do need those exports options can move them into another category/subtab. TurtleArt is a good example for solving that. Regards, Simon ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Keep confusion -- round N+1
On 06/23/2010 10:49 PM, Martin Langhoff wrote: [...] It probably needs to be complemented by an option in the Journal to add a duplicate this document, and Home View changes to make it clearer/easier to open a new activity without reopening the last document. We actually did a lot of work on this in the last release cycle with the design team on making a better separation between resume and start new in the Journal. After making tests [1] in deployments for start new vs. resume we concluded that the way activity starting works on the iPhone would probably work well in Sugar, too [2]. In any case, we have been working on this topic so hard during the last release cycle, would be great it we conclude something from that discussion at make it an action item. Regards, Simon [1] http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Design_Team/0.88_Meeting#Resume.2FStart_new_on_the_Home_View [2] http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/File:Sugar_resume_vs_start_new.jpg ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Keep confusion -- round N+1
After making tests [1] in deployments for start new vs. resume we concluded that the way activity starting works on the iPhone would probably work well in Sugar, too [2]. Hehe, this is exactly the thing you would get with per-activity datastores. Guess what, Android does this too. :) Not to mention that an object chooser for pictures could be totally different from an object chooser for ftp sessions for example. ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Keep confusion -- round N+1
On 24 Jun 2010, at 09:45, NoiseEHC noise...@freemail.hu wrote: After making tests [1] in deployments for start new vs. resume we concluded that the way activity starting works on the iPhone would probably work well in Sugar, too [2]. Hehe, this is exactly the thing you would get with per-activity datastores. Guess what, Android does this too. :) Not to mention that an object chooser for pictures could be totally different from an object chooser for ftp sessions for example. Well, 'per-activity data stores' sounds like a large rewrite for the data-store, Journal, and every activity... i.e. not very likely. The 'start new vs. resume' design tries to provides a similar work flow but with minimal possible changes - it's pretty close to just moving the current hover palette functionality into a larger object chooser type dialogue. Hmmm, I wonder if we could/should augment the object chooser to also cover this case? Also worth taking note that the Apple iOS approach of letting the app deal 100% with the presentation of files/objects gives a real mixed bag of different attempts from each app developer, some do great work, others are rather confusing/weak, some don't bother at all. There is certainly little consistency when using one app vs. another, you have to re-learn what features are available and where the developer decided to place them. Regards, --Gary ___ Sugar-devel mailing list sugar-de...@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Keep confusion -- round N+1
A duplicate document function in the journal would be very useful, I think. I think it's easier and more correct implement this in the activities. -- // Bernie Innocenti - http://codewiz.org/ \X/ Sugar Labs - http://sugarlabs.org/ ___ Sugar-devel mailing list sugar-de...@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel -- Gonzalo ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Keep confusion -- round N+1
On Wed, Jun 23, 2010 at 04:49:48PM -0400, Martin Langhoff wrote: B1 - That we have a Keep button, labelled Keep, that actually creates a new document but retains the same document name. I don't like it. B2 - What you can see between steps #2.1 and #2.2 -- if you wait a few seconds between those steps, step #4 will show 2 documents with the new name instead of 2 documents with the old name. The keep callback should probably commit the name change first, to remove this race. I think you can also tab out of the field in order to get the change noticed. If I recall correctly, GTK+ emits a text changed signal for every keystroke, but most GTK+ applications don't use the text until focus is lost. 0.88 has the press-alt-key to start a new activity thing. -- James Cameron http://quozl.linux.org.au/ ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Keep confusion -- round N+1
On 23 June 2010 15:49, Martin Langhoff martin.langh...@gmail.com wrote: Continuing on the tradition of Keep confusion, yet again thread http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/2010-April/023440.html I was yesterday in a conf call with the Perú team, who had been working with teachers and were reporting a keep bug on F11/S0.84 images. What was very clear was that both technical team and teachers were confused about the keep button; and they were seeing a bug that increased their confusion. Yep, I'm here in peru and they are facing the same confusion as i've seen all over the world. This button needs to go away. Here in Peru they are modifying all of the 30 activities on the laptop to remove the Keep button. (with a little care for the ones where it has alternative functions such as Write -- thats why you can't just take it out of the activity class altogether) Daniel ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Keep confusion -- round N+1
On Wed, Jun 23, 2010 at 06:07:46PM -0500, Daniel Drake wrote: Here in Peru they are modifying all of the 30 activities on the laptop to remove the Keep button. Those modifications will have general interest from other deployments. Can they be published? -- James Cameron http://quozl.linux.org.au/ ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Keep confusion -- round N+1
On 24 Jun 2010, at 00:07, Daniel Drake d...@laptop.org wrote: On 23 June 2010 15:49, Martin Langhoff martin.langh...@gmail.com wrote: Continuing on the tradition of Keep confusion, yet again thread http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/2010-April/023440.html I was yesterday in a conf call with the Perú team, who had been working with teachers and were reporting a keep bug on F11/S0.84 images. What was very clear was that both technical team and teachers were confused about the keep button; and they were seeing a bug that increased their confusion. Yep, I'm here in peru and they are facing the same confusion as i've seen all over the world. This button needs to go away. +1, it's been a horrible confusing design call even assuming the Journal had version support implemented. FWIW the iPad UI deals with this just great (in at least iWorks apps to my knowledge), the regular undo just works between session if you happen to want to reverse or redo a change you did yesterday. There is no extra keep step, your edit sessions are presumed continuous in time. There's even a mind mapping app I use that goes the extra step and allows you to select past edit states by modification time, not something I'd see as a common need but still an interesting extra (only time I've made use of it is to revert a document right back to the original state). Here in Peru they are modifying all of the 30 activities on the laptop to remove the Keep button. (with a little care for the ones where it has alternative functions such as Write -- thats why you can't just take it out of the activity class altogether) Ouch :( But that is really good 'feedback', I was very glad when Keep moved into the activity sub menu for the new toolbar design, out of primary sight at last, at least... Perhaps we can get agreement to upstream such changes and save deployments such efforts. --Gary Daniel ___ Sugar-devel mailing list sugar-de...@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
