Re: slightly long and detailed proposal for documentation-translation workflow
Good points. The OLPC is designed around collaboration. The model really works well where every child in a class has his/her own laptop, uses it in and out of school, and lives in close enough proximity to other class members to make the Mesh work. In class one kid discovers how to do something and teaches the other kids (and teachers as well). In an address at Harvard Law, Negroponte said something like: People ask me who is going to teach the teachers to teach the children how to use the XOs --- and I wonder what planet are they on? ... A child who gets one through G1G1 in isolation will not be able to fully benefit from collaboration and thus, along with parent/tutor, would definately benefit from user documentation in lieu of help from others in class. Likewise, the Carlos Slims approach of putting them in Mexican libraries. If G1G1 goes big-time in November, you can sure bet that there will be OLPC for Dummies books, etc. by Christmas. On 10/15/07, Todd Kelsey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am amazed and inspired by all the wonderful projects and activities that have arisen from the laptop project -- and though I was skeptical at first, I have also come to appreciate the constructivist approach to education; I didn't get it until I came to appreciate the notion of allowing children to come to aha moments on their own. The fact that children do fine without manuals at the present level of interaction is a testament to the design of the computer and the philosophy behind it. As generation xo grows older, I think they will want to get deeper into the systems, and as they do, I think they will want more information, and I'd like to help make that freely available. I think a user manual or documentation will be more helpful for adult learners who will end up participating in the laptop community, and who would find it helpful to have something to refer to. Perhaps users could learn many things simply by exploring, and yet they might appreciate having something to turn to. Other people may not have personal possession of a laptop, but would be interested in learning how they could support the project. Some people who order the laptops through www.xogiving.org will get frustrated with the laptop if they have no resources to turn to, and I'd like to help them have fun. I think the idea of encouraging children to help each other learn is wonderful; I also appreciate the principle of inclusiveness, and I think that one way to be inclusive is to address various learning styles. On 10/15/07, Steve Fullerton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Ed and all, I fully appreciate the detail. However, IMHO I think that there is some re-thinking required re: the traditional user documentation. The core of the OLPC (literally one laptop per child; the model does not work as well if there is not possession of a laptop for each child) is that of collaboration. One child learning something and then teaching his/her classmates. OLPC machines are not meant to be used in isolation. You could actually make a credible argument that user manuals are bad for the project. The highly intuitive design of Sugar and the experience of the pilots bears this out. The children seem to do just great without manuals, discovery is enhanced, and many of the constructionist ideals are realized. What do you think? On 10/15/07, Ed Trager [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, Michael, Just a few comments for consideration by everyone: ... Doc writing conventions: Some linguistic research has been done on simplified English as a subset of English to use for low-level learners, and I think that it might be a good place to look for ways to simplify the source_docs. But just thinking intuitively, I have cooked up the following suggestions in order to generate discussion: * Pronouns. o Use the first-person singular pronoun I to represent the author of the docs, o the second-person singular pronoun you to represent the reader of the docs, and o the first-person plural pronoun we to represent the OLPC project. o Examples. We have designed a screen that switches to black-and-white to conserve energy. I will explain how to switch your screen to black-and-white. First, you press the X button on your keyboard Because we want the docs to be easily translated and easily understood, the tone should be personal, using I for the voice of the writer. This will be easier for amateur translators to translate and easier for younger readers to understand. This will also help the writer avoid the passive construction, which is very difficult for some non-native English speakers to understand. I agree completely that the English passive construction should be avoided at all times. I mostly agree with your suggestion
Re: slightly long and detailed proposal for documentation-translation workflow
At the current rate of XO software churn, any printed book will be obsolete/inaccurate before the ink is dry. Todd Kelsey wrote: I have been struggling with my literary agent and trying to knock someone over the head with a wet noodle into realizing that there *will* be a market for a book, and trying to suggest going with an e-book, with editorial support from a publisher, put it on amazon, develop the whole thing in a robust authoring cms so updates and multilingual versions can be easily made. one publisher responded with fear, blah blah blah, and I made an attempt to provide rationales (including insights from Wikinomics, which has helped me to be able to articulate some of the value propositions), but I'm 2 degrees away from throwing in the towel, and inviting whoever wants to join me in making a multimodal community book. then maybe when the publishers wake up they could license it and use their distribution channels to put it in stores. I don't know if the publishers realize how cool the little green xo is as a way for people to get acquainted with Linux. Ok I'm throwing in the towel. We could call it the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Laptop. I don't care what the title is. The community could name it, write it. If anyone is interested in helping learners who desire a book to get acquainted with the very wonderful work you are doing, please feel free to get in touch. Maybe the proceeds from the book could go towards a series of laptop libraries where the laptops could be checked out by kids. I guess in the same time it took to write this email I could have written a wiki page. On 10/16/07, *Steve Fullerton* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Good points. The OLPC is designed around collaboration. The model really works well where every child in a class has his/her own laptop, uses it in and out of school, and lives in close enough proximity to other class members to make the Mesh work. In class one kid discovers how to do something and teaches the other kids (and teachers as well). In an address at Harvard Law, Negroponte said something like: People ask me who is going to teach the teachers to teach the children how to use the XOs --- and I wonder what planet are they on? ... A child who gets one through G1G1 in isolation will not be able to fully benefit from collaboration and thus, along with parent/tutor, would definately benefit from user documentation in lieu of help from others in class. Likewise, the Carlos Slims approach of putting them in Mexican libraries. If G1G1 goes big-time in November, you can sure bet that there will be OLPC for Dummies books, etc. by Christmas. On 10/15/07, *Todd Kelsey * [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am amazed and inspired by all the wonderful projects and activities that have arisen from the laptop project -- and though I was skeptical at first, I have also come to appreciate the constructivist approach to education; I didn't get it until I came to appreciate the notion of allowing children to come to aha moments on their own. The fact that children do fine without manuals at the present level of interaction is a testament to the design of the computer and the philosophy behind it. As generation xo grows older, I think they will want to get deeper into the systems, and as they do, I think they will want more information, and I'd like to help make that freely available. I think a user manual or documentation will be more helpful for adult learners who will end up participating in the laptop community, and who would find it helpful to have something to refer to. Perhaps users could learn many things simply by exploring, and yet they might appreciate having something to turn to. Other people may not have personal possession of a laptop, but would be interested in learning how they could support the project. Some people who order the laptops through www.xogiving.org http://www.xogiving.org will get frustrated with the laptop if they have no resources to turn to, and I'd like to help them have fun. I think the idea of encouraging children to help each other learn is wonderful; I also appreciate the principle of inclusiveness, and I think that one way to be inclusive is to address various learning styles. On 10/15/07, *Steve Fullerton* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Ed and all, I fully appreciate the detail. However, IMHO I think that there is some re-thinking required re: the traditional user documentation. The core of the OLPC (literally
Re: slightly long and detailed proposal for documentation-translation workflow
heh, I totally agree, but this doesn't mean that there isn't a market for a book like that (unfortunately!). Apart from the fact that some people feel disabled without a book, there still is *not* a user-friendly introduction on how to use the laptop (let alone how it works) and I doubt that there will be one anytime soon because OLPC's primary mission is not to sell the XO in the US market. However, I'm afraid that OLPC will have to deal with user support! I hate to say this but there were already a couple of people visiting the lab, asking about where to buy the laptops and whether they're good for their needs. Pol Mitch Bradley wrote: At the current rate of XO software churn, any printed book will be obsolete/inaccurate before the ink is dry. Todd Kelsey wrote: I have been struggling with my literary agent and trying to knock someone over the head with a wet noodle into realizing that there *will* be a market for a book, and trying to suggest going with an e-book, with editorial support from a publisher, put it on amazon, develop the whole thing in a robust authoring cms so updates and multilingual versions can be easily made. one publisher responded with fear, blah blah blah, and I made an attempt to provide rationales (including insights from Wikinomics, which has helped me to be able to articulate some of the value propositions), but I'm 2 degrees away from throwing in the towel, and inviting whoever wants to join me in making a multimodal community book. then maybe when the publishers wake up they could license it and use their distribution channels to put it in stores. I don't know if the publishers realize how cool the little green xo is as a way for people to get acquainted with Linux. Ok I'm throwing in the towel. We could call it the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Laptop. I don't care what the title is. The community could name it, write it. If anyone is interested in helping learners who desire a book to get acquainted with the very wonderful work you are doing, please feel free to get in touch. Maybe the proceeds from the book could go towards a series of laptop libraries where the laptops could be checked out by kids. I guess in the same time it took to write this email I could have written a wiki page. On 10/16/07, *Steve Fullerton* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Good points. The OLPC is designed around collaboration. The model really works well where every child in a class has his/her own laptop, uses it in and out of school, and lives in close enough proximity to other class members to make the Mesh work. In class one kid discovers how to do something and teaches the other kids (and teachers as well). In an address at Harvard Law, Negroponte said something like: People ask me who is going to teach the teachers to teach the children how to use the XOs --- and I wonder what planet are they on? ... A child who gets one through G1G1 in isolation will not be able to fully benefit from collaboration and thus, along with parent/tutor, would definately benefit from user documentation in lieu of help from others in class. Likewise, the Carlos Slims approach of putting them in Mexican libraries. If G1G1 goes big-time in November, you can sure bet that there will be OLPC for Dummies books, etc. by Christmas. On 10/15/07, *Todd Kelsey * [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am amazed and inspired by all the wonderful projects and activities that have arisen from the laptop project -- and though I was skeptical at first, I have also come to appreciate the constructivist approach to education; I didn't get it until I came to appreciate the notion of allowing children to come to aha moments on their own. The fact that children do fine without manuals at the present level of interaction is a testament to the design of the computer and the philosophy behind it. As generation xo grows older, I think they will want to get deeper into the systems, and as they do, I think they will want more information, and I'd like to help make that freely available. I think a user manual or documentation will be more helpful for adult learners who will end up participating in the laptop community, and who would find it helpful to have something to refer to. Perhaps users could learn many things simply by exploring, and yet they might appreciate having something to turn to. Other people may not have personal possession of a laptop, but would be interested in learning how they could support the project. Some people who order the laptops through www.xogiving.org http://www.xogiving.org will get frustrated with the laptop if
Re: slightly long and detailed proposal for documentation-translation workflow
fyi val scarlata and i went back through material to try and make something more user friendly. she scanned through wiki and assembled various links as good cop, then I played bad cop to try and control scope, she had a documentation party with a couple of students to assemble material -- and now three tech writers who have volunteered are working very much on trying to make it user friendly (and extensible to incorporate software flux, and adaptable into various languages). There is a proto google doc that anyone who is interested is welcome to view, join in, or if you email me i'll send a pdf. haven't had time to situate in wiki yet. I saw marklogic do very nice work with x-query allowing people to self-assemble their own books on the fly. i think this is how safari u. does things. kind of like alacarte ebooks. it would be cool if flowr foundation (open source x-query) could help put something like that together. but that would be porsche -- it would be nice just to have a scalable system period -- and that's what we're working on. On 10/16/07, Polychronis Ypodimatopoulos [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: heh, I totally agree, but this doesn't mean that there isn't a market for a book like that (unfortunately!). Apart from the fact that some people feel disabled without a book, there still is *not* a user-friendly introduction on how to use the laptop (let alone how it works) and I doubt that there will be one anytime soon because OLPC's primary mission is not to sell the XO in the US market. However, I'm afraid that OLPC will have to deal with user support! I hate to say this but there were already a couple of people visiting the lab, asking about where to buy the laptops and whether they're good for their needs. Pol Mitch Bradley wrote: At the current rate of XO software churn, any printed book will be obsolete/inaccurate before the ink is dry. Todd Kelsey wrote: I have been struggling with my literary agent and trying to knock someone over the head with a wet noodle into realizing that there *will* be a market for a book, and trying to suggest going with an e-book, with editorial support from a publisher, put it on amazon, develop the whole thing in a robust authoring cms so updates and multilingual versions can be easily made. one publisher responded with fear, blah blah blah, and I made an attempt to provide rationales (including insights from Wikinomics, which has helped me to be able to articulate some of the value propositions), but I'm 2 degrees away from throwing in the towel, and inviting whoever wants to join me in making a multimodal community book. then maybe when the publishers wake up they could license it and use their distribution channels to put it in stores. I don't know if the publishers realize how cool the little green xo is as a way for people to get acquainted with Linux. Ok I'm throwing in the towel. We could call it the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Laptop. I don't care what the title is. The community could name it, write it. If anyone is interested in helping learners who desire a book to get acquainted with the very wonderful work you are doing, please feel free to get in touch. Maybe the proceeds from the book could go towards a series of laptop libraries where the laptops could be checked out by kids. I guess in the same time it took to write this email I could have written a wiki page. On 10/16/07, *Steve Fullerton* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Good points. The OLPC is designed around collaboration. The model really works well where every child in a class has his/her own laptop, uses it in and out of school, and lives in close enough proximity to other class members to make the Mesh work. In class one kid discovers how to do something and teaches the other kids (and teachers as well). In an address at Harvard Law, Negroponte said something like: People ask me who is going to teach the teachers to teach the children how to use the XOs --- and I wonder what planet are they on? ... A child who gets one through G1G1 in isolation will not be able to fully benefit from collaboration and thus, along with parent/tutor, would definately benefit from user documentation in lieu of help from others in class. Likewise, the Carlos Slims approach of putting them in Mexican libraries. If G1G1 goes big-time in November, you can sure bet that there will be OLPC for Dummies books, etc. by Christmas. On 10/15/07, *Todd Kelsey * [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am amazed and inspired by all the wonderful projects and activities that have arisen from the laptop project -- and though I was skeptical at first, I have also come to appreciate the constructivist approach to education; I didn't get it
Re: slightly long and detailed proposal for documentation-translation workflow
On 10/15/07, Ed Trager [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: translate and easier for younger readers to understand. This will also help the writer avoid the passive construction, which is very difficult for some non-native English speakers to understand. I agree completely that the English passive construction should be avoided at all times. You mean: I agree completely that *one* should avoid the English passive construction at all times. Don't you? --scott -- ( http://cscott.net/ ) ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: slightly long and detailed proposal for documentation-translation workflow
Hi, Michael, Just a few comments for consideration by everyone: ... Doc writing conventions: Some linguistic research has been done on simplified English as a subset of English to use for low-level learners, and I think that it might be a good place to look for ways to simplify the source_docs. But just thinking intuitively, I have cooked up the following suggestions in order to generate discussion: * Pronouns. o Use the first-person singular pronoun I to represent the author of the docs, o the second-person singular pronoun you to represent the reader of the docs, and o the first-person plural pronoun we to represent the OLPC project. o Examples. We have designed a screen that switches to black-and-white to conserve energy. I will explain how to switch your screen to black-and-white. First, you press the X button on your keyboard Because we want the docs to be easily translated and easily understood, the tone should be personal, using I for the voice of the writer. This will be easier for amateur translators to translate and easier for younger readers to understand. This will also help the writer avoid the passive construction, which is very difficult for some non-native English speakers to understand. I agree completely that the English passive construction should be avoided at all times. I mostly agree with your suggestion on use of pronouns. Use of I and we are fine. REGARDING THE PRONOUN YOU IN ENGLISH: -- However, as a native English speaker, I find the use of the pronoun you in the imperative mood often quite jarring. Imperative sentences in which the you is absent are understood by native speakers of English to convey a softer, less imperative tone. Such sentences are considered more polite. Compare: (A) First you press the X button on the keyboard. ... versus: (B) First, press the X button on the keyboard. One or two instances of you in imperatives or directions in spoken or written English may not seem too bad, but after a series of them, it becomes irritating. So while I have no objection to simple English which will be easily understood by younger learners of the language, we must also be sure that we do not proscribe an incorrect idea regarding the usage of the pronoun you in imperative sentences in English. In short, it is *not* OK to use you repeatedly in a series of imperatives or directions (such as instructions for using a laptop). The absence of the pronoun you is preferred when giving directions in English. REGARDING POSSESSIVE PRONOUNS: --- Look again at the sentances Michael used for his example: I will explain how to switch your screen to black-and-white. First, you press the X button on your keyboard English speakers make frequent use of possessive pronouns, as is the case here with : your screen , your keyboard . But in many other languages (perhaps most other languages?) we would not use possessive pronouns here at all. All of these English yours, if translated quite directly into foreign languages, results in very annoying and unnatural sounding texts in my experience. So I would advise we try to fix the English from the start by avoiding unecessary invocations of possessive pronouns, especially your: I will explain how to switch the screen to black-and-white. First, press the X button on the keyboard I basically agree with the rest of Michael's suggestions, so that's all the comments I have. -- Ed Trager ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: slightly long and detailed proposal for documentation-translation workflow
Hi Ed and all, I fully appreciate the detail. However, IMHO I think that there is some re-thinking required re: the traditional user documentation. The core of the OLPC (literally one laptop per child; the model does not work as well if there is not possession of a laptop for each child) is that of collaboration. One child learning something and then teaching his/her classmates. OLPC machines are not meant to be used in isolation. You could actually make a credible argument that user manuals are bad for the project. The highly intuitive design of Sugar and the experience of the pilots bears this out. The children seem to do just great without manuals, discovery is enhanced, and many of the constructionist ideals are realized. What do you think? On 10/15/07, Ed Trager [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, Michael, Just a few comments for consideration by everyone: ... Doc writing conventions: Some linguistic research has been done on simplified English as a subset of English to use for low-level learners, and I think that it might be a good place to look for ways to simplify the source_docs. But just thinking intuitively, I have cooked up the following suggestions in order to generate discussion: * Pronouns. o Use the first-person singular pronoun I to represent the author of the docs, o the second-person singular pronoun you to represent the reader of the docs, and o the first-person plural pronoun we to represent the OLPC project. o Examples. We have designed a screen that switches to black-and-white to conserve energy. I will explain how to switch your screen to black-and-white. First, you press the X button on your keyboard Because we want the docs to be easily translated and easily understood, the tone should be personal, using I for the voice of the writer. This will be easier for amateur translators to translate and easier for younger readers to understand. This will also help the writer avoid the passive construction, which is very difficult for some non-native English speakers to understand. I agree completely that the English passive construction should be avoided at all times. I mostly agree with your suggestion on use of pronouns. Use of I and we are fine. REGARDING THE PRONOUN YOU IN ENGLISH: -- However, as a native English speaker, I find the use of the pronoun you in the imperative mood often quite jarring. Imperative sentences in which the you is absent are understood by native speakers of English to convey a softer, less imperative tone. Such sentences are considered more polite. Compare: (A) First you press the X button on the keyboard. ... versus: (B) First, press the X button on the keyboard. One or two instances of you in imperatives or directions in spoken or written English may not seem too bad, but after a series of them, it becomes irritating. So while I have no objection to simple English which will be easily understood by younger learners of the language, we must also be sure that we do not proscribe an incorrect idea regarding the usage of the pronoun you in imperative sentences in English. In short, it is *not* OK to use you repeatedly in a series of imperatives or directions (such as instructions for using a laptop). The absence of the pronoun you is preferred when giving directions in English. REGARDING POSSESSIVE PRONOUNS: --- Look again at the sentances Michael used for his example: I will explain how to switch your screen to black-and-white. First, you press the X button on your keyboard English speakers make frequent use of possessive pronouns, as is the case here with : your screen , your keyboard . But in many other languages (perhaps most other languages?) we would not use possessive pronouns here at all. All of these English yours, if translated quite directly into foreign languages, results in very annoying and unnatural sounding texts in my experience. So I would advise we try to fix the English from the start by avoiding unecessary invocations of possessive pronouns, especially your: I will explain how to switch the screen to black-and-white. First, press the X button on the keyboard I basically agree with the rest of Michael's suggestions, so that's all the comments I have. -- Ed Trager ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel -- Regards, Steve Steven C. Fullerton email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] cell/voice mail: 619.339.9116 ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: slightly long and detailed proposal for documentation-translation workflow
I am amazed and inspired by all the wonderful projects and activities that have arisen from the laptop project -- and though I was skeptical at first, I have also come to appreciate the constructivist approach to education; I didn't get it until I came to appreciate the notion of allowing children to come to aha moments on their own. The fact that children do fine without manuals at the present level of interaction is a testament to the design of the computer and the philosophy behind it. As generation xo grows older, I think they will want to get deeper into the systems, and as they do, I think they will want more information, and I'd like to help make that freely available. I think a user manual or documentation will be more helpful for adult learners who will end up participating in the laptop community, and who would find it helpful to have something to refer to. Perhaps users could learn many things simply by exploring, and yet they might appreciate having something to turn to. Other people may not have personal possession of a laptop, but would be interested in learning how they could support the project. Some people who order the laptops through www.xogiving.org will get frustrated with the laptop if they have no resources to turn to, and I'd like to help them have fun. I think the idea of encouraging children to help each other learn is wonderful; I also appreciate the principle of inclusiveness, and I think that one way to be inclusive is to address various learning styles. On 10/15/07, Steve Fullerton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Ed and all, I fully appreciate the detail. However, IMHO I think that there is some re-thinking required re: the traditional user documentation. The core of the OLPC (literally one laptop per child; the model does not work as well if there is not possession of a laptop for each child) is that of collaboration. One child learning something and then teaching his/her classmates. OLPC machines are not meant to be used in isolation. You could actually make a credible argument that user manuals are bad for the project. The highly intuitive design of Sugar and the experience of the pilots bears this out. The children seem to do just great without manuals, discovery is enhanced, and many of the constructionist ideals are realized. What do you think? On 10/15/07, Ed Trager [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, Michael, Just a few comments for consideration by everyone: ... Doc writing conventions: Some linguistic research has been done on simplified English as a subset of English to use for low-level learners, and I think that it might be a good place to look for ways to simplify the source_docs. But just thinking intuitively, I have cooked up the following suggestions in order to generate discussion: * Pronouns. o Use the first-person singular pronoun I to represent the author of the docs, o the second-person singular pronoun you to represent the reader of the docs, and o the first-person plural pronoun we to represent the OLPC project. o Examples. We have designed a screen that switches to black-and-white to conserve energy. I will explain how to switch your screen to black-and-white. First, you press the X button on your keyboard Because we want the docs to be easily translated and easily understood, the tone should be personal, using I for the voice of the writer. This will be easier for amateur translators to translate and easier for younger readers to understand. This will also help the writer avoid the passive construction, which is very difficult for some non-native English speakers to understand. I agree completely that the English passive construction should be avoided at all times. I mostly agree with your suggestion on use of pronouns. Use of I and we are fine. REGARDING THE PRONOUN YOU IN ENGLISH: -- However, as a native English speaker, I find the use of the pronoun you in the imperative mood often quite jarring. Imperative sentences in which the you is absent are understood by native speakers of English to convey a softer, less imperative tone. Such sentences are considered more polite. Compare: (A) First you press the X button on the keyboard. ... versus: (B) First, press the X button on the keyboard. One or two instances of you in imperatives or directions in spoken or written English may not seem too bad, but after a series of them, it becomes irritating. So while I have no objection to simple English which will be easily understood by younger learners of the language, we must also be sure that we do not proscribe an incorrect idea regarding the usage of the pronoun you in imperative sentences in English. In short, it is *not* OK to use you repeatedly in a series of imperatives or
