Re: Reporting bugs
Bert Freudenberg writes: I've had comments like this on some of my own reports. These are usually not reproducable, strange things. Having to follow through when this is far from my own area of expertise simply takes time I can't effort. There indeed is lack of interest on the part of the reporter, no denial here. I'm just saying that because of that, I stopped reporting those one-off bugs. Seeing comments like yours reinforces that decision. This is sad, but understandable. What is a bug reporter supposed to do about something that is very difficult to reproduce? Just not report it? I've hit a few bugs that I can't seem to reproduce. This does not mean the bugs are non-existant or that they won't someday destroy something like a child's journal content. ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Reporting bugs
There is a balance here: I may not be hitting it the balance right. Any report of bugs is goodness; but if trac's signal to noise ratio goes bad, we can't see the forest for the trees. . A reproducible bug is much more valuable to us than ones that are not; a bug against current bits are much more valuable than old ones, exactly because we have a better chance to go fix it. Having developers spend time wading through bugs that there is no way to reproduce, either because the recipe for doing so, or insufficient information on what versions were being used. So if a bug clearly needs more information to be able to be chased, it seemed reasonable to me to request information from the reporter, wait for a few days, and then close it if the reporter does not bother to even acknowledge the request for more information. Is this reasonable, or not? - Jim On Tue, 2007-10-30 at 03:17 -0400, Albert Cahalan wrote: Bert Freudenberg writes: I've had comments like this on some of my own reports. These are usually not reproducable, strange things. Having to follow through when this is far from my own area of expertise simply takes time I can't effort. There indeed is lack of interest on the part of the reporter, no denial here. I'm just saying that because of that, I stopped reporting those one-off bugs. Seeing comments like yours reinforces that decision. This is sad, but understandable. What is a bug reporter supposed to do about something that is very difficult to reproduce? Just not report it? I've hit a few bugs that I can't seem to reproduce. This does not mean the bugs are non-existant or that they won't someday destroy something like a child's journal content. -- Jim Gettys One Laptop Per Child ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Reporting bugs
Jim, it certainly is reasonable given the amount of manpower available. I only wanted to point out that blaming the reporter when closing a ticket gets you less bugs reported - something I though you might not have intended. Wording the reply differently could avoid that, to a certain extent at least. That said, I'd be happy to let this thread die and get back to coding ;) - Bert - On Oct 30, 2007, at 17:09 , Jim Gettys wrote: There is a balance here: I may not be hitting it the balance right. Any report of bugs is goodness; but if trac's signal to noise ratio goes bad, we can't see the forest for the trees. . A reproducible bug is much more valuable to us than ones that are not; a bug against current bits are much more valuable than old ones, exactly because we have a better chance to go fix it. Having developers spend time wading through bugs that there is no way to reproduce, either because the recipe for doing so, or insufficient information on what versions were being used. So if a bug clearly needs more information to be able to be chased, it seemed reasonable to me to request information from the reporter, wait for a few days, and then close it if the reporter does not bother to even acknowledge the request for more information. Is this reasonable, or not? - Jim On Tue, 2007-10-30 at 03:17 -0400, Albert Cahalan wrote: Bert Freudenberg writes: I've had comments like this on some of my own reports. These are usually not reproducable, strange things. Having to follow through when this is far from my own area of expertise simply takes time I can't effort. There indeed is lack of interest on the part of the reporter, no denial here. I'm just saying that because of that, I stopped reporting those one-off bugs. Seeing comments like yours reinforces that decision. This is sad, but understandable. What is a bug reporter supposed to do about something that is very difficult to reproduce? Just not report it? I've hit a few bugs that I can't seem to reproduce. This does not mean the bugs are non-existant or that they won't someday destroy something like a child's journal content. ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Reporting bugs
On 10/30/07, Jim Gettys [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There is a balance here: I may not be hitting it the balance right. Any report of bugs is goodness; but if trac's signal to noise ratio goes bad, we can't see the forest for the trees. . A reproducible bug is much more valuable to us than ones that are not; a bug against current bits are much more valuable than old ones, exactly because we have a better chance to go fix it. Having developers spend time wading through bugs that there is no way to reproduce, either because the recipe for doing so, or insufficient information on what versions were being used. So if a bug clearly needs more information to be able to be chased, it seemed reasonable to me to request information from the reporter, wait for a few days, and then close it if the reporter does not bother to even acknowledge the request for more information. Maybe you need a new tag/goal/milestone/whatever for marking bug reports that need to collect duplicates until you can see a pattern. Wading through these bugs could then be a weekly event rather than a daily event. (not to be forgotten though; eventually you may see a pattern) Dealing with rare/unpredictable things is never easy. ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Reporting bugs
I don't know about the bug in question, but frequently the reporter doesn't include enough information for us to decide if a bug is a duplicate, or how to reproduce it, etc. Yes, properly reporting a bug takes time. If a reporter can't afford the time to report the bug, or respond to further questions after reporting it, perhaps they shouldn't have one of our precious few developer machines... Just properly triaging a bug report takes 5 to 20 minutes of either Jim or Kim's time, followed by more time from the developer to which it is assigned. Users reporting the bug get the easy part of the task! John On Oct 29, 2007, at 2:52 AM, Bert Freudenberg wrote: I've had comments like this on some of my own reports. These are usually not reproducable, strange things. Having to follow through when this is far from my own area of expertise simply takes time I can't effort. There indeed is lack of interest on the part of the reporter, no denial here. I'm just saying that because of that, I stopped reporting those one-off bugs. Seeing comments like yours reinforces that decision. - Bert - On Oct 28, 2007, at 23:30 , Jim Gettys wrote: Look at the history; I asked for more information several days ago, and no response to the request. To make sure he got a copy, I added the reporter to the CC list, to generate another piece of mail in his inbox. I certainly hope SJ adds the requested information and reopens it. Best Regards, - Jim On Sun, 2007-10-28 at 17:49 +0100, Bert Freudenberg wrote: On Oct 28, 2007, at 17:37 , Zarro Boogs per Child wrote: Changes (by jg): * cc: sj (added) * status: new = closed * resolution: = invalid Comment: Closing due to lack of interest on the part of the reporter... Comments like this discourage reporting bugs. - Bert - ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Reporting bugs
... which again discourages reporting bugs, unless the reporter wants to risk being taken away the XO. - Bert - On Oct 29, 2007, at 8:17 , John Watlington wrote: I don't know about the bug in question, but frequently the reporter doesn't include enough information for us to decide if a bug is a duplicate, or how to reproduce it, etc. Yes, properly reporting a bug takes time. If a reporter can't afford the time to report the bug, or respond to further questions after reporting it, perhaps they shouldn't have one of our precious few developer machines... Just properly triaging a bug report takes 5 to 20 minutes of either Jim or Kim's time, followed by more time from the developer to which it is assigned. Users reporting the bug get the easy part of the task! John On Oct 29, 2007, at 2:52 AM, Bert Freudenberg wrote: I've had comments like this on some of my own reports. These are usually not reproducable, strange things. Having to follow through when this is far from my own area of expertise simply takes time I can't effort. There indeed is lack of interest on the part of the reporter, no denial here. I'm just saying that because of that, I stopped reporting those one-off bugs. Seeing comments like yours reinforces that decision. - Bert - On Oct 28, 2007, at 23:30 , Jim Gettys wrote: Look at the history; I asked for more information several days ago, and no response to the request. To make sure he got a copy, I added the reporter to the CC list, to generate another piece of mail in his inbox. I certainly hope SJ adds the requested information and reopens it. Best Regards, - Jim On Sun, 2007-10-28 at 17:49 +0100, Bert Freudenberg wrote: On Oct 28, 2007, at 17:37 , Zarro Boogs per Child wrote: Changes (by jg): * cc: sj (added) * status: new = closed * resolution: = invalid Comment: Closing due to lack of interest on the part of the reporter... Comments like this discourage reporting bugs. - Bert - ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Reporting bugs
On Oct 28, 2007, at 17:37 , Zarro Boogs per Child wrote: Changes (by jg): * cc: sj (added) * status: new = closed * resolution: = invalid Comment: Closing due to lack of interest on the part of the reporter... Comments like this discourage reporting bugs. - Bert - ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Reporting bugs
Look at the history; I asked for more information several days ago, and no response to the request. To make sure he got a copy, I added the reporter to the CC list, to generate another piece of mail in his inbox. I certainly hope SJ adds the requested information and reopens it. Best Regards, - Jim On Sun, 2007-10-28 at 17:49 +0100, Bert Freudenberg wrote: On Oct 28, 2007, at 17:37 , Zarro Boogs per Child wrote: Changes (by jg): * cc: sj (added) * status: new = closed * resolution: = invalid Comment: Closing due to lack of interest on the part of the reporter... Comments like this discourage reporting bugs. - Bert - ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel -- Jim Gettys One Laptop Per Child ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Reporting bugs
I've had comments like this on some of my own reports. These are usually not reproducable, strange things. Having to follow through when this is far from my own area of expertise simply takes time I can't effort. There indeed is lack of interest on the part of the reporter, no denial here. I'm just saying that because of that, I stopped reporting those one-off bugs. Seeing comments like yours reinforces that decision. - Bert - On Oct 28, 2007, at 23:30 , Jim Gettys wrote: Look at the history; I asked for more information several days ago, and no response to the request. To make sure he got a copy, I added the reporter to the CC list, to generate another piece of mail in his inbox. I certainly hope SJ adds the requested information and reopens it. Best Regards, - Jim On Sun, 2007-10-28 at 17:49 +0100, Bert Freudenberg wrote: On Oct 28, 2007, at 17:37 , Zarro Boogs per Child wrote: Changes (by jg): * cc: sj (added) * status: new = closed * resolution: = invalid Comment: Closing due to lack of interest on the part of the reporter... Comments like this discourage reporting bugs. - Bert - ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
