Re: [SailfishDevel] Right to silence
Here we go again, seems like you really need to do this outpour on the sailfish devel list, so could you PLEASE at least contain it to one thread so the ones that don't wish to get distracted can successfully ignore the thread? On 5/23/2014 2:35 PM, Filip Kłębczyk wrote: From English Wikipedia: The right to remain silent is a legal right recognized, explicitly or by convention, in many of the world's legal systems. The right covers a number of issues centered around the right of the accused or the defendant to refuse to comment or provide an answer when questioned, either prior to or during legal proceedings in a court of law. This can be the right to avoid self-incrimination or the right to remain silent when questioned. The right usually includes the provision that adverse comments or inferences cannot be made by the judge or jury regarding the refusal by a defendant to answer questions before or during a trial, hearing or any other legal proceeding. This right constitutes only a small part of the defendant's rights as a whole. I will repeat one part. *The right usually includes the provision that adverse comments or inferences cannot be made by the judge or jury regarding the refusal by a defendant to answer questions before or during a trial, hearing or any other legal proceeding.* Now let all think, was it ok for Jolla employees (that mostly dominated yesterday meeting, check in irc logs who was talking most of the time) forcing me to speak and what kind of comments they've made about that. While I respect Thomas Perl right to be silent - it's his choice and I would like others to respect the fact that I was silent during yesterday's meeting. Moreover I clearly stated that I will reply on mailing list after meeting which I've did as promised. I just didn't feel that I will have equal chances to express myself, when Jolla employees where dominating on it. Regards, Filip ___ SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list To unsubscribe, please send a mail to devel-unsubscr...@lists.sailfishos.org ___ SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list To unsubscribe, please send a mail to devel-unsubscr...@lists.sailfishos.org ___ SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list To unsubscribe, please send a mail to devel-unsubscr...@lists.sailfishos.org
Re: [SailfishDevel] Right to silence
+1 on the /ignore On 5/23/2014 4:09 PM, Joona Hoikkala wrote: Here we go again, seems like you really need to do this outpour on the sailfish devel list, so could you PLEASE at least contain it to one thread so the ones that don't wish to get distracted can successfully ignore the thread? On 5/23/2014 2:35 PM, Filip Kłębczyk wrote: From English Wikipedia: The right to remain silent is a legal right recognized, explicitly or by convention, in many of the world's legal systems. The right covers a number of issues centered around the right of the accused or the defendant to refuse to comment or provide an answer when questioned, either prior to or during legal proceedings in a court of law. This can be the right to avoid self-incrimination or the right to remain silent when questioned. The right usually includes the provision that adverse comments or inferences cannot be made by the judge or jury regarding the refusal by a defendant to answer questions before or during a trial, hearing or any other legal proceeding. This right constitutes only a small part of the defendant's rights as a whole. I will repeat one part. *The right usually includes the provision that adverse comments or inferences cannot be made by the judge or jury regarding the refusal by a defendant to answer questions before or during a trial, hearing or any other legal proceeding.* Now let all think, was it ok for Jolla employees (that mostly dominated yesterday meeting, check in irc logs who was talking most of the time) forcing me to speak and what kind of comments they've made about that. While I respect Thomas Perl right to be silent - it's his choice and I would like others to respect the fact that I was silent during yesterday's meeting. Moreover I clearly stated that I will reply on mailing list after meeting which I've did as promised. I just didn't feel that I will have equal chances to express myself, when Jolla employees where dominating on it. Regards, Filip ___ SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list To unsubscribe, please send a mail to devel-unsubscr...@lists.sailfishos.org ___ SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list To unsubscribe, please send a mail to devel-unsubscr...@lists.sailfishos.org ___ SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list To unsubscribe, please send a mail to devel-unsubscr...@lists.sailfishos.org ___ SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list To unsubscribe, please send a mail to devel-unsubscr...@lists.sailfishos.org
Re: [SailfishDevel] Right to silence
+1 for ignore. On Thu, May 22, 2014 at 11:12 PM, Joseph Crowell joseph.w.crow...@gmail.com wrote: +1 on the /ignore On 5/23/2014 4:09 PM, Joona Hoikkala wrote: Here we go again, seems like you really need to do this outpour on the sailfish devel list, so could you PLEASE at least contain it to one thread so the ones that don't wish to get distracted can successfully ignore the thread? On 5/23/2014 2:35 PM, Filip Kłębczyk wrote: From English Wikipedia: The right to remain silent is a legal right recognized, explicitly or by convention, in many of the world's legal systems. The right covers a number of issues centered around the right of the accused or the defendant to refuse to comment or provide an answer when questioned, either prior to or during legal proceedings in a court of law. This can be the right to avoid self-incrimination or the right to remain silent when questioned. The right usually includes the provision that adverse comments or inferences cannot be made by the judge or jury regarding the refusal by a defendant to answer questions before or during a trial, hearing or any other legal proceeding. This right constitutes only a small part of the defendant's rights as a whole. I will repeat one part. *The right usually includes the provision that adverse comments or inferences cannot be made by the judge or jury regarding the refusal by a defendant to answer questions before or during a trial, hearing or any other legal proceeding.* Now let all think, was it ok for Jolla employees (that mostly dominated yesterday meeting, check in irc logs who was talking most of the time) forcing me to speak and what kind of comments they've made about that. While I respect Thomas Perl right to be silent - it's his choice and I would like others to respect the fact that I was silent during yesterday's meeting. Moreover I clearly stated that I will reply on mailing list after meeting which I've did as promised. I just didn't feel that I will have equal chances to express myself, when Jolla employees where dominating on it. Regards, Filip ___ SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list To unsubscribe, please send a mail to devel-unsubscr...@lists.sailfishos.org ___ SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list To unsubscribe, please send a mail to devel-unsubscr...@lists.sailfishos.org ___ SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list To unsubscribe, please send a mail to devel-unsubscr...@lists.sailfishos.org ___ SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list To unsubscribe, please send a mail to devel-unsubscr...@lists.sailfishos.org ___ SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list To unsubscribe, please send a mail to devel-unsubscr...@lists.sailfishos.org
Re: [SailfishDevel] Right to silence
W dniu 23.05.2014 08:09, Joona Hoikkala pisze: Here we go again, seems like you really need to do this outpour on the sailfish devel list, so could you PLEASE at least contain it to one thread so the ones that don't wish to get distracted can successfully ignore the thread? As you see others - Carsten Munk don't contain the topic in one thread. *Have equal expectations to everyone, not only to a person you disagree with or don't like.* Regards, Filip ___ SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list To unsubscribe, please send a mail to devel-unsubscr...@lists.sailfishos.org
Re: [SailfishDevel] Right to silence
Hello, This is my last and final comment on this topic. After this I instantiate a filter that does not let me see this or the previous non-technical topic (you all know what I am talking about). This is not , I repeat, this is not discriminating anyone. It's my own choice and I have the right for that. I'm following up on the developer issues on this mailing list. I don't deal with developer relations or alike - for that there is Iekku and other people. I let the community to decide the rest of the actions on these topics, I cannot spend more time on this. The points of people who have expressed their view have been seen and no resolution on the original problem is handled. If Filip or someone else wants to continue, my COMPANY email is firstname.lastname@jollamobile.com. But, be informed ; my email is so busy that it takes me easily ~5d to reply back unless it's: a) critical technical issue regarding SDK b) notification I've won in lottery in which I have participated c) something that deals with physical injury or even death of someone d) reserved - what? :) Thanks and have a nice day. -Jarko, one of the SDK guys. ___ SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list To unsubscribe, please send a mail to devel-unsubscr...@lists.sailfishos.org
Re: [SailfishDevel] Right to silence
Munk was dealing with another subject, namely accusations against him personally. You just created another thread about your personal conflict with thp. Sorry in advance about the following ad hominem based only on the posts on this list: You stated that you are capable of empathy, however I completely fail to recognize your ability to step into others shoes here. On 23 May 2014, at 09:58, Filip Kłębczyk fklebc...@gmail.com wrote: W dniu 23.05.2014 08:09, Joona Hoikkala pisze: Here we go again, seems like you really need to do this outpour on the sailfish devel list, so could you PLEASE at least contain it to one thread so the ones that don't wish to get distracted can successfully ignore the thread? As you see others - Carsten Munk don't contain the topic in one thread. *Have equal expectations to everyone, not only to a person you disagree with or don't like.* Regards, Filip ___ SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list To unsubscribe, please send a mail to devel-unsubscr...@lists.sailfishos.org ___ SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list To unsubscribe, please send a mail to devel-unsubscr...@lists.sailfishos.org
Re: [SailfishDevel] Right to silence
No comment on any topics related discussions, but it's probably good idea to take a small hiatus from posting about these issues on a public mailing list, and delete the threads from mailing list archives. It's only going to be an embarrassment few months down the line. On Fri, May 23, 2014 at 10:44 AM, Filip Kłębczyk fklebc...@gmail.comwrote: W dniu 23.05.2014 09:02, Jarko Vihriala pisze: I don't deal with developer relations or alike - for that there is Iekku and other people. In practice Iekku almost gave her voice completely to Stefano on this mailing list when it comes to developer relations. Also community manager Carol Chen didn't write anything on this matter. I wonder what for are those functions/titles (developer care relations, community manager) if those persons don't speak at all on this important matter impacting both developer relations and community. I hope Jolla finds courage and will agree to publish all the mails Developer Care sent and also if Iekku agrees to publish her mails she sent to me on this case with dates (if she doesn't want the mails from Developer Care are enough). Then everybody will be able to judge himself if the topic was ignored or not (facts Stefano, facts that you wanted, don't you?). The problem as it seen from the last mails is complex and deserves fair treatment. Again there was my proposal for mediation, which wasn't discussed at the meeting as I've asked. Also I don't think that statements saying that this problem is a complete private thing between me and Thomas Perl are correct. If Carsten said that one of the reasons that I cannot work in Jolla is his fear that Thomas would probably exit the company, when I would join, then I think it clearly shows the conflict affected decisions made on company side at least by Carsten. Also Carsten has written in his mails: I understand that there may be two schools of thoughts here - that the person on the other side of the McDonalds' counter is a faceless automaton only there to serve customers.. or that the person on the other side of the counter is a human with feelings, relations, rights and worries. Ok so you are stating here that there are two approaches where someones private area can or not influences his work. If you prefer second option then the big problem is to what point it can influence his actions at work when having personal conflicts. Where is the border? Let me give you an example if someone works in Ministry of Enviroment/Ecology and after hours throws trash to the forest, how would you call that? What ministry should answer if someone asks about that duality? If someone as employee talks about hacking event on Together (Jolla official communication channel) and then on IRC of that event says (privately or not) that he excludes one of the community members from taking part in that event, how do you call that? Do you see similarities with the previous example? So taking the two cases into account: a) Thomas trying to exclude me from the event (let's assume privately) b) Thomas not answering only my questions (answering others) on official channel (Harbour was pointing to it) as Jolla employee 1. If someone will state that work and private areas influence each other, then you are giving power to point a), that can be considered as discrimination/abuse. 2. If someone will state (opposite to point 1) that work and private areas can be completely divided/separated then you give power to point b) as a discrimination. You see inconsistency in Jolla behavior? It's logic, something with what technical people should be familiar with. Regards, Filip ___ SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list To unsubscribe, please send a mail to devel-unsubscribe@lists. sailfishos.org ___ SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list To unsubscribe, please send a mail to devel-unsubscr...@lists.sailfishos.org
Re: [SailfishDevel] Right to silence / General Mailing List
+1 Zitat von Panu Artimo tuntema...@gmail.com: I'm starting to think this whole thread is another instance of the problem that caused the initial problem in the first place. +1 plus for creating a general mailing list for subjects not directly related to software development and technical issues. ___ SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list To unsubscribe, please send a mail to devel-unsubscr...@lists.sailfishos.org ___ SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list To unsubscribe, please send a mail to devel-unsubscr...@lists.sailfishos.org
Re: [SailfishDevel] Right to silence / General Mailing List
I absolutely agree to the general mailing list idea. Following this list when commuting mainly from my Jolla which has no email threading ability (*hint* *hint*) has become a real pain in the a$$ in the last few days ;) On Fri, May 23, 2014 at 10:27 AM, christopher.l...@thurweb.ch wrote: +1 Zitat von Panu Artimo tuntema...@gmail.com: I'm starting to think this whole thread is another instance of the problem that caused the initial problem in the first place. +1 plus for creating a general mailing list for subjects not directly related to software development and technical issues. ___ SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list To unsubscribe, please send a mail to devel-unsubscribe@lists. sailfishos.org ___ SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list To unsubscribe, please send a mail to devel-unsubscribe@lists. sailfishos.org -- Luca Donaggio ___ SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list To unsubscribe, please send a mail to devel-unsubscr...@lists.sailfishos.org
Re: [SailfishDevel] Right to silence
+1 On Fri May 23 2014 09:23:42 GMT+0100 (BST), Panu Artimo wrote: I'm starting to think this whole thread is another instance of the problem that caused the initial problem in the first place. +1 plus for creating a general mailing list for subjects not directly related to software development and technical issues. ___ SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list To unsubscribe, please send a mail to devel-unsubscr...@lists.sailfishos.org ___ SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list To unsubscribe, please send a mail to devel-unsubscr...@lists.sailfishos.org
[SailfishDevel] Right to silence
From English Wikipedia: The right to remain silent is a legal right recognized, explicitly or by convention, in many of the world's legal systems. The right covers a number of issues centered around the right of the accused or the defendant to refuse to comment or provide an answer when questioned, either prior to or during legal proceedings in a court of law. This can be the right to avoid self-incrimination or the right to remain silent when questioned. The right usually includes the provision that adverse comments or inferences cannot be made by the judge or jury regarding the refusal by a defendant to answer questions before or during a trial, hearing or any other legal proceeding. This right constitutes only a small part of the defendant's rights as a whole. I will repeat one part. *The right usually includes the provision that adverse comments or inferences cannot be made by the judge or jury regarding the refusal by a defendant to answer questions before or during a trial, hearing or any other legal proceeding.* Now let all think, was it ok for Jolla employees (that mostly dominated yesterday meeting, check in irc logs who was talking most of the time) forcing me to speak and what kind of comments they've made about that. While I respect Thomas Perl right to be silent - it's his choice and I would like others to respect the fact that I was silent during yesterday's meeting. Moreover I clearly stated that I will reply on mailing list after meeting which I've did as promised. I just didn't feel that I will have equal chances to express myself, when Jolla employees where dominating on it. Regards, Filip ___ SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list To unsubscribe, please send a mail to devel-unsubscr...@lists.sailfishos.org
Re: [SailfishDevel] Right to silence
Are you aware of the IRC /ignore feature? I suspect you were black listed long ago for behavior similar to the behavior you are exhibiting now. On 5/23/2014 2:35 PM, Filip Kłębczyk wrote: From English Wikipedia: The right to remain silent is a legal right recognized, explicitly or by convention, in many of the world's legal systems. The right covers a number of issues centered around the right of the accused or the defendant to refuse to comment or provide an answer when questioned, either prior to or during legal proceedings in a court of law. This can be the right to avoid self-incrimination or the right to remain silent when questioned. The right usually includes the provision that adverse comments or inferences cannot be made by the judge or jury regarding the refusal by a defendant to answer questions before or during a trial, hearing or any other legal proceeding. This right constitutes only a small part of the defendant's rights as a whole. I will repeat one part. *The right usually includes the provision that adverse comments or inferences cannot be made by the judge or jury regarding the refusal by a defendant to answer questions before or during a trial, hearing or any other legal proceeding.* Now let all think, was it ok for Jolla employees (that mostly dominated yesterday meeting, check in irc logs who was talking most of the time) forcing me to speak and what kind of comments they've made about that. While I respect Thomas Perl right to be silent - it's his choice and I would like others to respect the fact that I was silent during yesterday's meeting. Moreover I clearly stated that I will reply on mailing list after meeting which I've did as promised. I just didn't feel that I will have equal chances to express myself, when Jolla employees where dominating on it. Regards, Filip ___ SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list To unsubscribe, please send a mail to devel-unsubscr...@lists.sailfishos.org ___ SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list To unsubscribe, please send a mail to devel-unsubscr...@lists.sailfishos.org
