Re: [developer] ZFS user quotas with compression

[Richard Elling]

> On Nov 7, 2016, at 2:45 PM, Jorgen Lundman  wrote:
> 
> Richard Elling wrote:
> 
>> 
>> No, this is a lie. If I upload 50GB of data that compresses or dedups to 
>> 25GB, then I want to pay for 25GB.
>>  — richard
> 
> Huh neat. So how far does it stretch though? If I have compression off, you 
> are happy. What if I use lz4, but gzip-9 would save more, should you get 
> money back? What is Super-lz4 comes out next year, should you be compensated? 
> What if I get more active and re-encode your video file with x265 and save 
> you even more money? I'm fiddling with your bits man! That's totally not cool 
> (but I'm saving you money!)
> 
> But the best one, that confused me. We have 10G of space (actually it is free 
> space) and when customers download their 10G backup, and found it took 13G of 
> local space, they called support to complain. Seriously. Customers are funny.
> 
> But light-heartedness aside, at the end of the day, I am not suggesting ZFS 
> change quota, I'm not even suggesting you change how you use your quota. But 
> lets talk about adding the additional feature for those who want it. I 
> certainly do not want lua in my kernel, but I'm not trying to stop the elders 
> from adding it :)
> 
> Just because all major "cloud" storage does it the non-ZFS way, doesn't mean 
> it this way is good, or "right". But it does create a defacto standard, an 
> industry standard.

Respectfully, you’re changing the subject. We’re talking about quota, not 
billing.
Logicalreferenced is already available for billing.
 — richard



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Re: [developer] ZFS user quotas with compression

[Richard Elling]

> On Nov 7, 2016, at 1:21 PM, Paul B. Henson  wrote:
> 
>> From: Richard Elling
>> Sent: Monday, November 07, 2016 9:44 AM
>> 
>> As a customer, I don’t like getting ripped off. I think you need to find a 
>> better
>> justification.
> 
> That seems a bit harsh :). If you pay for "50GB of data storage" and you 
> upload 50GB of data, how are you getting ripped off? Even if there's a magic 
> fairy in the background that makes your 50GB of data only actually take up 
> 40GB of service provider storage?

No, this is a lie. If I upload 50GB of data that compresses or dedups to 25GB, 
then I want to pay for 25GB.
 — richard



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Re: [developer] ZFS user quotas with compression

[Matthew Ahrens]

I see the use case for these "logical" quotas (variants on userquota@,
quota, refquota).  FYI, I added the "logicalused" and "logicalreferenced"
properties a few years back, and these can be used to implement
application-level checks/quotas.  If we implement a "logicalquota" and
"logicalrefquota", those could be based on the "logicalused" and
"logicalreferenced" properties, respectively.

--matt

On Fri, Nov 4, 2016 at 5:11 PM, Jorgen Lundman  wrote:

> 
> I believe this was one of my questions at my first ZFS Summit day :)
> 
> The space saved from compression should be to our advantage, not that of
> the customers (who should really compress their data anyway, right?) which
> is how Google does its drive space etc.
> 
> But since OpenZFS can not currently do this, we have lived with
> compression-favours-the-customers.
> 
> This came to an amusing issue with the last maintenance, where we moved
> customers from existing (compressed ZFS storage) to new hardware, and
> "someone" forgot to set compression. (Solaris copies the compression
> property with zfs recv -o, but IllumOS does not).
> 
> Suddenly a couple of hundred customers could no longer receive mail, as
> they'd managed to tweak their mail storage just under the quota limit
> compressed, which now went far beyond their quota, uncompressed.
> 
> I'm sure I put everyone to sleep with that anecdote.
> 
> lt, dr;
> 
> We too want (alternate?) quotas based on pre-compressed sized :)
> 
> Lund
> 



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