Re: [Development] Qt 6.5 Is Irrelevant for More than 95% of Mac Desktops
Hi, One more thing to note related to 10.15 support in Qt 6.5 is that even if it is dropped from the supported platforms (as has been planned), it doesn’t mean it would be impossible for someone to use it in their application. Of course, deploying to an unsupported version means more testing and possibly some fixes to be picked. It is never recommended to run on a non-tested (in CI) configuration, but doing the testing for the application is still an option. That said, staying for a while with Qt 6.4.x is another option for those who still need to support 10.15 during next year. Yours, Tuukka From: Development on behalf of Vladimir Belyavsky Date: Friday, 23. December 2022 at 11.54 To: development@qt-project.org Subject: Re: [Development] Qt 6.5 Is Irrelevant for More than 95% of Mac Desktops For my company, dropping support for macOS 10.15 in Qt 6.5 is also problematic, as we'll have to stick with Qt 6.4 or consider dropping support and updates for about 15% of our users. Here are our internal statistics on the current macOS distribution to real average users, based on a really large number of customers: - macOS 10.14.6 ~ 5% (fortunately Qt 6.3.2 it's still functional there) - macOS 10.15.7 ~ 10% As a developer, I understand the reason for stopping legacy OS support, but it will not be easy for me to explain to the management why we once again should stop supporting quite a large number of our users. (they are still angry after dropping Win7) ___ Development mailing list Development@qt-project.org https://lists.qt-project.org/listinfo/development
Re: [Development] Qt 6.5 Is Irrelevant for More than 95% of Mac Desktops
For my company, dropping support for macOS 10.15 in Qt 6.5 is also problematic, as we'll have to stick with Qt 6.4 or consider dropping support and updates for about 15% of our users. Here are our internal statistics on the current macOS distribution to real average users, based on a really large number of customers: - macOS 10.14.6 ~ 5% (fortunately Qt 6.3.2 it's still functional there) - macOS 10.15.7 ~ 10% As a developer, I understand the reason for stopping legacy OS support, but it will not be easy for me to explain to the management why we once again should stop supporting quite a large number of our users. (they are still angry after dropping Win7) ___ Development mailing list Development@qt-project.org https://lists.qt-project.org/listinfo/development
Re: [Development] Qt 6.5 Is Irrelevant for More than 95% of Mac Desktops
Some Mac users probably will stick with 10.14 Mojave for years, since it's the last version to support 32-bit apps. Even if Apple doesn't update it, it will have some lingering share, e.g. to run Adobe apps from the desktop rather than Creative Cloud. On top of that, the last couple of MacOS updates have been rather buggy. There's often good reasons to stick with an older OS that's stable. Thanks, Casey McD ___ Development mailing list Development@qt-project.org https://lists.qt-project.org/listinfo/development
Re: [Development] Qt 6.5 Is Irrelevant for More than 95% of Mac Desktops
On Friday, 16 December 2022 09:41:11 -03 Kevin Kofler via Development wrote:
> And Google Analytics also reads the information from the user agent, so it
> is almost certainly affected by the same Safari "feature". And the WebKit
> "bug" (actually a "feature" request asking to introduce the incorrect
> version reporting, as a workaround for broken websites that apparently think
> any version number ≠ 10 is legacy MacOS ≤ 9) links to [this Firefox "bug"
> ("feature" request)](https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1679929)
> saying that Firefox now does the same for "security" reasons (smaller
> fingerprinting surface).
So we'll need yet another field in the UA... we still keep the "Mozilla/5.0"
for compatibility with some 90s websites?
Reminds me of that purported reason why Microsoft skipped Windows 9, that
unfortunately makes too much sense.
if (winVerStr.startsWith("Win9"))
return Windows95;
--
Thiago Macieira - thiago.macieira (AT) intel.com
Cloud Software Architect - Intel DCAI Cloud Engineering
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Re: [Development] Qt 6.5 Is Irrelevant for More than 95% of Mac Desktops
coroberti wrote:
> Since Qt 6.5 drops Mac OS 10.15 Catalina,
> it apparently starts to be irrelevant for at least 95% of Mac Desktops.
>
> https://gs.statcounter.com/macos-version-market-share/desktop/worldwide
See the note on top:
| Apple are incorrectly reporting Big Sur 11 as Catalin 10.15. You can read
| more about it [here](https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=216593).
| We can't correctly show usage for Big Sur 11 or Catalina 10.15 until Apple
| fixes this.
So these statistics are essentially worthless.
> Google Analytics data of visitors for some web-site, where I have access,
> also supports the above observations.
And Google Analytics also reads the information from the user agent, so it
is almost certainly affected by the same Safari "feature". And the WebKit
"bug" (actually a "feature" request asking to introduce the incorrect
version reporting, as a workaround for broken websites that apparently think
any version number ≠ 10 is legacy MacOS ≤ 9) links to [this Firefox "bug"
("feature" request)](https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1679929)
saying that Firefox now does the same for "security" reasons (smaller
fingerprinting surface).
Kevin Kofler
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Re: [Development] Qt 6.5 Is Irrelevant for More than 95% of Mac Desktops
On Friday, 16 December 2022 09:20:44 -03 coroberti wrote: > Hi, > Since Qt 6.5 drops Mac OS 10.15 Catalina, > it apparently starts to be irrelevant for at least 95% of Mac Desktops. Please note the problem is that *Apple* dropped 10.15 earlier this year. Its last security release was already released and there won't be any new ones any more. If you have a problem with that, you can contact Apple support or vote with your pocket on your next computer or OS. In any case, even though the Qt minimum supported release is now 11.0, 10.15 will still work for a while. Eventually, there will be your usual crop of API uses that won't work in 10.15, but right now they aren't there because the minimum version bump only happened last month in Qt. So 6.5 will likely compile on 10.15 out of the box, or with minimal action on your part. > To keep Qt-6 being still relevant for Mac Desktop open-source > development, please > consider keeping Mac OS 10.15 as a target. If you convince Apple to restart support for it, sure. -- Thiago Macieira - thiago.macieira (AT) intel.com Cloud Software Architect - Intel DCAI Cloud Engineering ___ Development mailing list Development@qt-project.org https://lists.qt-project.org/listinfo/development
Re: [Development] Qt 6.5 Is Irrelevant for More than 95% of Mac Desktops
Hm: "Apple are incorrectly reporting Big Sur 11 as Catalin 10.15. You can read more about it here. We can't correctly show usage for Big Sur 11 or Catalina 10.15 until Apple fixes this." Looks like WebKit doesn't report anything larger than 10.15. https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=216593 and for Mozilla something similar: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1679929 And indeed my latest Firefox reports Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:107.0) Running on macOS 12. So, while these statistics says something about the usage of "10.15 or later", it cannot really be used to say anything about 10.15 versus later versions. Br, Eike > Am 16/12/2022 um 13:20 schrieb coroberti : > > Hi, > Since Qt 6.5 drops Mac OS 10.15 Catalina, > it apparently starts to be irrelevant for at least 95% of Mac Desktops. > > https://gs.statcounter.com/macos-version-market-share/desktop/worldwide > > Google Analytics data of visitors for some web-site, where I have access, > also supports the above observations. > > To keep Qt-6 being still relevant for Mac Desktop open-source > development, please > consider keeping Mac OS 10.15 as a target. > Thanks. > > Kind regards, > Robert Iakobashvili > > ___ > Development mailing list > Development@qt-project.org > https://lists.qt-project.org/listinfo/development -- Eike Ziller Principal Software Engineer The Qt Company GmbH Erich-Thilo-Straße 10 D-12489 Berlin eike.zil...@qt.io http://qt.io Geschäftsführer: Mika Pälsi, Juha Varelius, Jouni Lintunen Sitz der Gesellschaft: Berlin, Registergericht: Amtsgericht Charlottenburg, HRB 144331 B ___ Development mailing list Development@qt-project.org https://lists.qt-project.org/listinfo/development
