Re: [xwiki-devs] [Proposal] Disable Message Stream by default in platform distribution + XE

2016-10-18 Thread Vincent Massol 
I’m doing option 1 ATM. We can do option 2 later on.

Thanks
-Vincent

> On 17 Oct 2016, at 18:47, Vincent Massol  wrote:
> 
> ok everyone agreed. 
> 
> What I proposed in this thread was to do option 1 as described at:
> http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-9583?focusedCommentId=93094=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel#comment-93094
> 
> Now I’m still hesitating about doing option 2 (ie move as an extension but 
> without refactoring much the existing integration), see:
> http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-9583?focusedCommentId=93096=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel#comment-93096
> 
> Should I still do option 1 or do you think option 2 is better. Option 2 is 
> bit more work but it boils down to whether we consider this feature to be 
> core or not. We shouldn’t move it outside of platform and to contrib if it’s 
> to bring it back later on.
> 
> Thanks
> -Vincent
> 
>> On 15 Oct 2016, at 11:10, Vincent Massol  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi devs,
>> 
>> I’m working on http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-10543 and it’s been 
>> reported by Nicolas that all the users he’s seen use XWiki don’t use the 
>> Message Stream feature and moreover they even ask him to remove it.
>> 
>> One specific issue he’s raised is that the messages are sent to the AS 
>> (either the global one or the user’s one) and the messages are drowned with 
>> the page updates.
>> 
>> Basically we’d need to polish this feature better to make it really useful.
>> 
>> I agree with this POV. I also agree that in order to make XWiki simpler and 
>> less cluttered, this feature could be disabled.
>> 
>> Thus I’m proposing to still bundle it but to disable it, since we already 
>> have a Message Stream Admin UI config.
>> 
>> WDYT?
>> 
>> Thanks
>> -Vincent
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Re: [xwiki-devs] [Proposal] Disable Message Stream by default in platform distribution + XE

2016-10-17 Thread Vincent Massol 
ok everyone agreed. 

What I proposed in this thread was to do option 1 as described at:
http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-9583?focusedCommentId=93094=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel#comment-93094

Now I’m still hesitating about doing option 2 (ie move as an extension but 
without refactoring much the existing integration), see:
http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-9583?focusedCommentId=93096=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel#comment-93096

Should I still do option 1 or do you think option 2 is better. Option 2 is bit 
more work but it boils down to whether we consider this feature to be core or 
not. We shouldn’t move it outside of platform and to contrib if it’s to bring 
it back later on.

Thanks
-Vincent

> On 15 Oct 2016, at 11:10, Vincent Massol  wrote:
> 
> Hi devs,
> 
> I’m working on http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-10543 and it’s been 
> reported by Nicolas that all the users he’s seen use XWiki don’t use the 
> Message Stream feature and moreover they even ask him to remove it.
> 
> One specific issue he’s raised is that the messages are sent to the AS 
> (either the global one or the user’s one) and the messages are drowned with 
> the page updates.
> 
> Basically we’d need to polish this feature better to make it really useful.
> 
> I agree with this POV. I also agree that in order to make XWiki simpler and 
> less cluttered, this feature could be disabled.
> 
> Thus I’m proposing to still bundle it but to disable it, since we already 
> have a Message Stream Admin UI config.
> 
> WDYT?
> 
> Thanks
> -Vincent
> 
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Re: [xwiki-devs] [Proposal] Disable Message Stream by default in platform distribution + XE

2016-10-17 Thread Vincent Massol 
Hi Caty,

> On 17 Oct 2016, at 12:45, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica)  wrote:
> 
> So it's problematic that the feature get oldish and it creates more
> confusion than being useful. So I agree to disable it. The problem is that
> disabling it means it will not be used anymore at all, so a better solution
> would be to remove it from XE/Platform instead.

I don’t understand the logic and how removing it would make it easier for users 
to use it. 

> I understand that this means more work since it's integrated in AS and
> Profile,

Yep. Step 1 is disable, step 2 might be to remove it but we need to do step 1 
first, especially since there are several issues to fix first (see the jira).

> but I want to raise a point for this use case.
> 
> One of the problems I see with XWiki Applications is their ability to
> interconnect between them. For example, I would like to install the Meeting
> app and that if I also install the Calendar app, the meetings would also be
> displayed in the Calendar, and not be independent pages.
> 
> The same is also for the Message Stream app. This app was integrated to
> display it's messages in Activity Stream, to be able to follow someone from
> the User Profile and to display just an user messages in the Profile. We
> had integration into several applications and although maybe the feature
> was not complete or not very useful for our users, it affected multiple
> zones of the UI.
> 
> Since we don't have any easy 'insertion/app collaborations' mechanisms is
> hard for us to remove the Message Stream from XE, and is hard for us to
> make multiple apps interconnect.

This is not correct. We do have several "'insertion/app collaborations’ 
mechanisms”. It’s just that the app integration wasn’t coded so nicely and some 
of these mechanisms didn’t exist back then. 

FTR we have 3 mechanisms:
* If you depend on a given app: we use an “#if”. Either on a given wiki page or 
better, on a given extension installed (using the $services.extension script 
service when you’re in velocity). For example the Meeting app can have an 
optional dependency on the Calendar app and use such an if.
* If you want to define a place where other apps can integrate content. This 
can be achieved using an UIXP. However we said that for apps we should favor 
custom XClass instead. So the app should define such an XClass and then have 
other apps depend on it. In the case of the User Profile, this is achieved by 
allowing apps to add new tabs with UserProfileSectionClass). The bug here was 
to mix the Message sending feature in the tab for the Profile. It should have 
had its own tab probably. Now even for a given tab, it’s still possible for 
that tab to offer custom extension point by offering some other XClass.
* For apps that need to extend skin/templates we offer the UIXP mechanism.

> I'm not sure these kind of "magic integration mechanisms" (it goes beyond
> UIXP since you need also API) exists or if it means just plain old good
> coding :) between apps, but it's just a point I wanted to make.

I don’t understand the problem. Do the 3 mechanism listed above answer your 
question?

What’s the problem with the API? Each extension can provide any number of API 
they want already.

Thanks
-Vincent

> 
> Thanks,
> Caty
> 
> 
> On Mon, Oct 17, 2016 at 11:22 AM, Guillaume Delhumeau <
> guillaume.delhum...@xwiki.com> wrote:
> 
>> +1
>> 
>> 2016-10-17 8:42 GMT+02:00 Alexandru Cotiuga :
>> 
>>> +1
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Re: [xwiki-devs] [Proposal] Disable Message Stream by default in platform distribution + XE

2016-10-17 Thread Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) 
So it's problematic that the feature get oldish and it creates more
confusion than being useful. So I agree to disable it. The problem is that
disabling it means it will not be used anymore at all, so a better solution
would be to remove it from XE/Platform instead.

I understand that this means more work since it's integrated in AS and
Profile, but I want to raise a point for this use case.

One of the problems I see with XWiki Applications is their ability to
interconnect between them. For example, I would like to install the Meeting
app and that if I also install the Calendar app, the meetings would also be
displayed in the Calendar, and not be independent pages.

The same is also for the Message Stream app. This app was integrated to
display it's messages in Activity Stream, to be able to follow someone from
the User Profile and to display just an user messages in the Profile. We
had integration into several applications and although maybe the feature
was not complete or not very useful for our users, it affected multiple
zones of the UI.

Since we don't have any easy 'insertion/app collaborations' mechanisms is
hard for us to remove the Message Stream from XE, and is hard for us to
make multiple apps interconnect.

I'm not sure these kind of "magic integration mechanisms" (it goes beyond
UIXP since you need also API) exists or if it means just plain old good
coding :) between apps, but it's just a point I wanted to make.

Thanks,
Caty


On Mon, Oct 17, 2016 at 11:22 AM, Guillaume Delhumeau <
guillaume.delhum...@xwiki.com> wrote:

> +1
>
> 2016-10-17 8:42 GMT+02:00 Alexandru Cotiuga :
>
> > +1
> > ___
> > devs mailing list
> > devs@xwiki.org
> > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Guillaume Delhumeau (guillaume.delhum...@xwiki.com)
> Research & Development Engineer at XWiki SAS
> Committer on the XWiki.org project
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Re: [xwiki-devs] [Proposal] Disable Message Stream by default in platform distribution + XE

2016-10-17 Thread Guillaume Delhumeau 
+1

2016-10-17 8:42 GMT+02:00 Alexandru Cotiuga :

> +1
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-- 
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Research & Development Engineer at XWiki SAS
Committer on the XWiki.org project
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Re: [xwiki-devs] [Proposal] Disable Message Stream by default in platform distribution + XE

2016-10-17 Thread Alexandru Cotiuga 
+1
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Re: [xwiki-devs] [Proposal] Disable Message Stream by default in platform distribution + XE

2016-10-16 Thread Sergiu Dumitriu 
+1.

On 10/15/2016 05:10 AM, Vincent Massol wrote:
> Hi devs,
> 
> I’m working on http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-10543 and it’s been 
> reported by Nicolas that all the users he’s seen use XWiki don’t use the 
> Message Stream feature and moreover they even ask him to remove it.
> 
> One specific issue he’s raised is that the messages are sent to the AS 
> (either the global one or the user’s one) and the messages are drowned with 
> the page updates.
> 
> Basically we’d need to polish this feature better to make it really useful.
> 
> I agree with this POV. I also agree that in order to make XWiki simpler and 
> less cluttered, this feature could be disabled.
> 
> Thus I’m proposing to still bundle it but to disable it, since we already 
> have a Message Stream Admin UI config.
> 
> WDYT?
> 
> Thanks
> -Vincent
> 

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Re: [xwiki-devs] [Proposal] Disable Message Stream by default in platform distribution + XE

2016-10-16 Thread Thomas Mortagne 
+1

On Sun, Oct 16, 2016 at 2:16 AM, Eduard Moraru  wrote:
> +1
>
> The feature needs reworking and it`s doing more harm than good at the
> current state.
>
> Thanks,
> Eduard
>
> On Sat, Oct 15, 2016 at 12:26 PM, Vincent Massol  wrote:
>
>>
>> > On 15 Oct 2016, at 11:10, Vincent Massol  wrote:
>> >
>> > Hi devs,
>> >
>> > I’m working on http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-10543 and it’s been
>> reported by Nicolas that all the users he’s seen use XWiki don’t use the
>> Message Stream feature and moreover they even ask him to remove it.
>> >
>> > One specific issue he’s raised is that the messages are sent to the AS
>> (either the global one or the user’s one) and the messages are drowned with
>> the page updates.
>>
>> FTR this already logged as http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-9104
>>
>> > Basically we’d need to polish this feature better to make it really
>> useful.
>>
>> FTR here’s a list of open issues for the Message Stream feature:
>>
>> http://jira.xwiki.org/issues/?jql=component%20%3D%20%
>> 22Message%20Stream%22%20AND%20project%20%3D%20XWIKI%20AND%
>> 20resolution%20%3D%20Unresolved%20ORDER%20BY%20priority%20DESC
>>
>> Thanks
>> -Vincent
>>
>> > I agree with this POV. I also agree that in order to make XWiki simpler
>> and less cluttered, this feature could be disabled.
>> >
>> > Thus I’m proposing to still bundle it but to disable it, since we
>> already have a Message Stream Admin UI config.
>> >
>> > WDYT?
>> >
>> > Thanks
>> > -Vincent
>> >
>>
>> ___
>> devs mailing list
>> devs@xwiki.org
>> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>>
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Re: [xwiki-devs] [Proposal] Disable Message Stream by default in platform distribution + XE

2016-10-15 Thread Eduard Moraru 
+1

The feature needs reworking and it`s doing more harm than good at the
current state.

Thanks,
Eduard

On Sat, Oct 15, 2016 at 12:26 PM, Vincent Massol  wrote:

>
> > On 15 Oct 2016, at 11:10, Vincent Massol  wrote:
> >
> > Hi devs,
> >
> > I’m working on http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-10543 and it’s been
> reported by Nicolas that all the users he’s seen use XWiki don’t use the
> Message Stream feature and moreover they even ask him to remove it.
> >
> > One specific issue he’s raised is that the messages are sent to the AS
> (either the global one or the user’s one) and the messages are drowned with
> the page updates.
>
> FTR this already logged as http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-9104
>
> > Basically we’d need to polish this feature better to make it really
> useful.
>
> FTR here’s a list of open issues for the Message Stream feature:
>
> http://jira.xwiki.org/issues/?jql=component%20%3D%20%
> 22Message%20Stream%22%20AND%20project%20%3D%20XWIKI%20AND%
> 20resolution%20%3D%20Unresolved%20ORDER%20BY%20priority%20DESC
>
> Thanks
> -Vincent
>
> > I agree with this POV. I also agree that in order to make XWiki simpler
> and less cluttered, this feature could be disabled.
> >
> > Thus I’m proposing to still bundle it but to disable it, since we
> already have a Message Stream Admin UI config.
> >
> > WDYT?
> >
> > Thanks
> > -Vincent
> >
>
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Re: [xwiki-devs] [Proposal] Disable Message Stream by default in platform distribution + XE

2016-10-15 Thread Vincent Massol 

> On 15 Oct 2016, at 11:10, Vincent Massol  wrote:
> 
> Hi devs,
> 
> I’m working on http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-10543 and it’s been 
> reported by Nicolas that all the users he’s seen use XWiki don’t use the 
> Message Stream feature and moreover they even ask him to remove it.
> 
> One specific issue he’s raised is that the messages are sent to the AS 
> (either the global one or the user’s one) and the messages are drowned with 
> the page updates.

FTR this already logged as http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-9104

> Basically we’d need to polish this feature better to make it really useful.

FTR here’s a list of open issues for the Message Stream feature:

http://jira.xwiki.org/issues/?jql=component%20%3D%20%22Message%20Stream%22%20AND%20project%20%3D%20XWIKI%20AND%20resolution%20%3D%20Unresolved%20ORDER%20BY%20priority%20DESC

Thanks
-Vincent

> I agree with this POV. I also agree that in order to make XWiki simpler and 
> less cluttered, this feature could be disabled.
> 
> Thus I’m proposing to still bundle it but to disable it, since we already 
> have a Message Stream Admin UI config.
> 
> WDYT?
> 
> Thanks
> -Vincent
> 

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[xwiki-devs] [Proposal] Disable Message Stream by default in platform distribution + XE

2016-10-15 Thread Vincent Massol 
Hi devs,

I’m working on http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-10543 and it’s been reported 
by Nicolas that all the users he’s seen use XWiki don’t use the Message Stream 
feature and moreover they even ask him to remove it.

One specific issue he’s raised is that the messages are sent to the AS (either 
the global one or the user’s one) and the messages are drowned with the page 
updates.

Basically we’d need to polish this feature better to make it really useful.

I agree with this POV. I also agree that in order to make XWiki simpler and 
less cluttered, this feature could be disabled.

Thus I’m proposing to still bundle it but to disable it, since we already have 
a Message Stream Admin UI config.

WDYT?

Thanks
-Vincent

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