Re: Migration of dia-list to GNOME Discourse instance

[Michael Ross via dia-list]

This is certainly, a surprise. No ongoing discussion, just here you go,
live with it.

I have been replying to newbie emails here for at least 15 years. I will
not be migrating to Discourse with Dia.

I am familiar with Discourse. But, I don't use it the same way as an email
list, and even for topics I have a lot of passion for, I find that I
monitor the traffic less. This migration is just more creeping social
media, it is not better. It is just different. It caters to new, younger
users, rather than to established power users. It is a time suck compared
to an email list. It provides more dopamine hits and encourages stickiness
and addictive behavior. You have to lift the skirts of it to see what it
does to the human mind that a straight email interface does not.

I am sorry to see this "fixing" of what is not broken. The triumph of the
new, and pretty, over the established, effective, and streamlined.

Making Discourse an "opt in" further ensures a loss of old knowledge.

Best of luck to you all. May you have great joy and positive energy in your
lives.

Mike

On Mon, Oct 19, 2020, 8:25 AM Olav Vitters via dia-list 
wrote:

> Dear subscribers,
>
> Please cc me on replies.
>
> We've set up https://discourse.gnome.org a year and a half ago, as part
> of an attempt at making the GTK mailing list more friendly to newcomers.
> This experiment seems to have proven itself well enough, and has since
> expanded to other territories as well. As such, we believe it is time to
> make the same switch for most of our mailing lists.
>
> This means that this mailing list will be archived in favour of continued
> discussion at GNOME's Discourse instance. No need to worry that this will
> mess with your workflow: it is still possible to get notifications by email
> by subscribing to the appropriate tags and/or posts. You can also still
> reply by e-mail if you prefer. Just like before, it's also possible to
> receive a general weekly digest.
>
> The proposed closure of this mailing list will be on: Oct 30th, 2020
>
> As a subscriber of this mailing list please create an account on
> https://discourse.gnome.org/. It's unfortunately not possible to
> automatically migrate the existing subscribers to Discourse. In case you
> wonder what will happen to the current mailing list after the closure date:
> the archives will remain public though you won't be able to subscribe or
> send emails to the current list.
>
> For dia-list the new discussions would take place in the Applications
> category on Discourse using the 'dia' tag. Unfortunately creating a new
> thread with a dia tag is not possible at this time, the following link can
> be used:
> https://discourse.gnome.org/new-topic?category=Applications=dia,
> anyone can respond once a topic is created.
>
> For further information on Discourse, please see the following topics:
>
> https://discourse.gnome.org/t/interacting-with-discourse-via-email/46
> https://discourse.gnome.org/t/tags-and-watching/94
>
> Finally, feel welcome to say hi by introducing yourself over at
> https://discourse.gnome.org/t/say-hello-thread/ !
>
> On behalf of the Discourse migration volunteers.
>
> Cheers,
> Olav
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Re: Change canvas layout from portrait to landscape

[Michael Ross via dia-list]

Rich,

The work flow for Dia allows you to disregard portraitness,and
landscapeness - just make the Dia so you like it. Shape the canvas as to
like it.

Then you decide how you want it to be printed. The page breaks define if it
is landscape or not. All you need is in the Page Setup menu.

The margins are not visible on the canvas, but when you print they will
surround the page break delineated area.

On Tue, Sep 29, 2020, 7:05 PM Rich Shepard  wrote:

> I'm starting to learn dia and want to change the canvas layout from
> portrait
> to landscape. I've not found a menu item that lets me do this. What have I
> missed?
>
> Rich
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Re: Dia help required

[Michael Ross via dia-list]

 I have been using Dis (10+ years) and various CAD (25+ years) and I would
not choose Dia for this work. I like Dia, but not for large, architectural
drawings. I am not sure Visio is a good choice either, but I have no basis
in experience with Visio.

You would be better served with some thing like AutoCAD Lite. Google
Sketchup maybe. Pencil and paper have real merit too. Draw a box on a sheet
of paper for each room and put down a mark that means receptacle, door,
etc. Put the sheets in a folder and quickly move on.

Making drawings of a building interior seems far removed from managing
safety and health in a school, and perhaps not time well spent, even if you
were already skilled at drawing such things. I would recommend
prioritizing  meeting students and teachers, administrators and custodians,
to learn what health and safety needs are not as well served as they could
be.

What benefit to health and safety could there be from documenting where a
tree is planted? You could just look at it and see. I can understand
documenting things like cable raceways and the contents of data closets,
because they are hidden. This sort of work typically falls to facility
managers, or in a factory, to some industrial engineer.

If you can't draw a straight line between some health and safety need and a
map that shows doorways, trees, and receptacles then the mapping is not
time well spent.

It will be time consuming learning to use Dia for such an involved
project. *There
is very little tutorial help. *The usual way we learn Dia is by messing
around a lot, and asking specific questions about Dia functions in this
forum.

Admittedly, your title may be less accurate than it could be. Perhaps your
work really IS facilities and grounds management. You should still consider
a 2D CAD program instead of Dia. DIA IS NOT GOOD AT THIS KIND OF WORK.

Steve Lott mentioned Inkscape which is an excellent program. I would not
like it for facility drawings. You could do it, but will be a long process.

I swear to you hand sketching is very useful. It might buy you some time to
evaluate and learn a good drawing or CAD program. Don't try to measure and
record exact locations, just get close so when you stand in the room,
hallway, or yard, with the paper representation, it makes sense.
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Re: size in DIA

[Michael Ross via dia-list]

The printing is infinitely flexible. But, if the entities are far
apart (synonymous with the extents being too large) then regardless of
the font they will be small.

The work flow is like this. Draw the Dia so you like how it looks. Use
whatever zoom level you like. Then you print the screen view, or you
set up page breaks, and move the Dia around so you have it within the
page breaks the way you like it.  Page breaks are a little odd because
behind the scenes you have control over the printed margins. You can
have a segmented printou that can be taped or glued together. The
margins are all about the printed output, and they are not seen when
viewing the Dia on screen, but the margins will be applied between the
segmented sheets.

As an old user of Dia I recognize that this may not be intuitive. I
suggest experimenting to gain understanding.

On Sun, Sep 6, 2020 at 11:01 AM rhkramer--- via dia-list
 wrote:
>
> On Saturday, September 05, 2020 10:30:13 PM Michael Ross via dia-list wrote:
> > Zoom in. Or if the diagram is too large then when you zoom to the extents
> > there is so much size that the text entities are very small.
> > Is there some reason you think it is wrong to zoom in closer?
>
> I am not the OP, but if I were going to print out the diagram, I would need to
> have all of the mentioned entities of a readable size without zooming in.
>
>
>
> >
> > On Sat, Sep 5, 2020 at 6:16 PM Horst Michels via dia-list <
> >
> > dia-list@gnome.org> wrote:
> > > Hello,
> > >
> > > The size of icons, letters, pointer are very small and hardly readable.
> > > How can I set them to become readable?
> > >
> > > Horst Michels
> > > +27 (0)129971600
> > > +27 (0)822134598
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > [image: Avast logo] <https://www.avast.com/antivirus>
> > >
> > > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> > > www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/antivirus>
> > >
> > > <#m_-687606228933882_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
> > > ___
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> > > FAQ at http://live.gnome.org/Dia/Faq
> > > Main page at http://live.gnome.org/Dia
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Re: size in DIA

[Michael Ross via dia-list]

Zoom in. Or if the diagram is too large then when you zoom to the extents
there is so much size that the text entities are very small.
Is there some reason you think it is wrong to zoom in closer?

On Sat, Sep 5, 2020 at 6:16 PM Horst Michels via dia-list <
dia-list@gnome.org> wrote:

> Hello,
>
> The size of icons, letters, pointer are very small and hardly readable.
> How can I set them to become readable?
>
> Horst Michels
> +27 (0)129971600
> +27 (0)822134598
>
>
> --
> [image: Avast logo] 
>
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> www.avast.com 
>
> <#m_-687606228933882_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
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>
>

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Re: Dia3d?

[Michael Ross via dia-list]

I get by with layering.

On Thu, Jan 23, 2020 at 11:46 AM Christopher Nelson via dia-list <
dia-list@gnome.org> wrote:

> I love Dia but I'm looking for a tool which lets me create "3d"
> diagrams which I can drill down into.
>
> Say I have a top-level data flow diagram where A sends X to B which
> sends Y to C.  I want to be able to drill down into B, see X coming in
> and Y going out and be able to create B1, B2, B3, etc. as subtasks of
> B, interconnect them, hook X and Y up to two of them and save it.
>
> Or maybe I start by creating a bunch of processes in a complex diagram
> then I can multi-select some and say "demote these to detail of a
> single process" and have them replaced by a single process on the
> current drawing but drilling down later would reveal the detail (while
> hiding detail on the top level).
>
> I could see the same being useful for network diagrams.  Your top
> level might be data centers with trunks or "the internet" between
> them, drilling down could show rooms or racks and their
> interconnections, drilling down into a rack would show servers or
> switches, etc.
>
> I've Googled around a bit and not found anything.  Does anyone here
> know of anything like that?  Does it make sense as a direction for a
> fork of Dia?
>
>   Chris
> --
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> Professional Software Engineer
> @ChrisNelsonPE
> LinkedIn.com/in/ChrisNelsonPE
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Re: Layers

[Michael Ross via dia-list]

You can make an adjustable Layers window.

There are two ways to start Dia:

"C:\Program Files (x86)\Dia\bin\diaw.exe"

"C:\Program Files (x86)\Dia\bin\diaw.exe" -integrated

-integrated places all the tools in the Dia window.

If you omit that switch all the pallets and tools are in separate gloating
windows. Ctrl-L calls up the Layers window as a separate pane that can be
adjusted.

On Wed, Nov 6, 2019 at 2:45 PM Kevin King via dia-list 
wrote:

> Hello :D
>
> Your program, Dia, is amazing ! I'm using it almost every day to help me
> with a huge project
> I've been working on for the last six months. I only use the portable
> version. CAD programs are just too complicated for me to work
> efficiently.. I need to focus on the project, not the program !
>
> I humbly request one small but hugely helpful addition to your Dia
> program
> Could you please make the Layers palette on the right, re-sizable
> (horizontally) ? So that it can be made wider, allowing longer Layer names
> to be visible :D
>
> This is not a complaint. This is a polite request. I would be very
> grateful :D
>
> Kind regards
> Kevin
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Re: Dia development info

[Michael Ross via dia-list]

I have a couple of completely serviceable computers that are losing support
from browsers.

I want more of the same - Dia works just fine on Win XP. Win 7, Win 10.

I do not care about an online version. How about Dia just gets better in
features not the other stuff. If a browser based version was to be cobbled
together, I would have no reason to use it. I suspect those who program
using Dia as a higher level interface and code generator, would rather it
not be other than as it is.

Mike

On Mon, Aug 12, 2019 at 3:58 PM rhkramer--- via dia-list 
wrote:

> On Monday, August 12, 2019 03:28:34 PM Alejandro Imass wrote:
> > The move to GTK3 and general modernization is a good idea, BUT...
> >
> > Is it too crazy to take the core values of DIA and think about a
> > collaborative and/or Web-based version? Lucidcharts is very rapidly
> > spreading and there doesn't seem to be an open source of free software
> > alternative. An Open Source collaborative diagraming tool that could also
> > produce code (like dia2code) I think would be a way to revive this. If
> not
> > a pure-web version, at least think about the way Apple Productivity tools
> > have done it: native apps, that allow real-time collaboration AND also
> > provides a Web component for people that are non-Mac users.
>
> I'm not a developer, and don't know what others will say, but I'd want to
> request that the stand-alone desktop version continue to exist, and be
> maintained and improved.
>
> And, for an online / web version, I'd vote against basing a web version on
> Java based on my experience with the drawing tool used by TWiki several
> years
> ago, which (1) I don't immediately recall the name of, but (2) was very
> slow
> and cumbersome to use online.  (And the only way to use it was online.)
>
> I have no disagreement with a compatible online version of Dia is
> developed,
> especially if it is faster and less cumbersome than I experienced with the
> tool mentioned above.
>
>
> > For mainstream use, collaboration and the seamless integration with other
> > widely used tools such as Attlasian Confluence is essential. The concept
> of
> > stand-alone desktop tools is rapidly fading, at least IMHO.
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Re: Dia does not start under MacOS 10.14.2 (Mojave)

[Michael Ross via dia-list]

Consider uninstalling, download afresh, reboot, re-install. For many years
I have not heard this failure, 15 years perhaps, so this basic effort might
actually help. You could also try it on a second Mohave machine.

On Tue, May 28, 2019, 3:29 AM János Bánk  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I tried to install Dia on my Mac OS 10.14.2 (Mojave) Notebook using the
> installer from http://dia-installer.de/download/macosx.html and
> installing https://www.xquartz.org/. Unfortunately Dia started only for
> the first time. From the second time on the Dia icon just bumps a few times
> and nothing happens (no error message, no startup info).
>
> What could I do to fix this problem?
>
>
> With kindly regards and many thanks for Dia
> János
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Re: What's wrong with Dia the way it is?

[Michael Ross via dia-list]

I agree Steve.

Hans worked very hard to keep Dia like this. I can continue with the
current version of Dia - it is always available.  If it strays too much and
it doesn't suit me I will simply stop using newer releases.  Dia has
already lasted far longer than other programs I use for nearly 20 years
now. Still runs well with 32bit OS.  I anticipate being disappointed by a
new generation of developers tweaking it into an unusable (for me) form.
Everything is impermanent.

Mike

On Wed, Dec 5, 2018 at 12:34 PM Steve Litt 
wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> What's wrong with Dia just the way it is? It works. It's exportable
> into Inkscape for conversion to SVG.
>
> Sure, I have a few qualms with the way Dia works, mainly having to do
> with the relationship between text and shapes, but perhaps some good
> workaround documentation would settle that. I'd love to have
> Visio-quality diagram components, and perhaps if somebody writes some
> docs on how to make your own components with the connection points
> *you* want, that will be solved. Plus the fact that if everyone
> authoring new components puts them together in an online hierarchical
> library, perhaps with keyword search, our diagrams could start to rival
> those of visio users.
>
> If some of the libraries used by Dia are in the process of being
> deprecated, then those certainly must be replaced by their successors.
> But other than that, why the emphasis on maintenance? Sometimes
> something's so good it needs no more maintenance (fetchmail is one
> example).
>
> Right now Dia works for people on all sorts of computers. It's very
> DIYable. My experience has been that in many cases, people in a hurry
> to "improve" software end up making it into a buggy, DIY-not-allowed
> monolithic entanglement.
>
> SteveT
>
> Steve Litt
> December 2018 featured book: Rapid Learning for the 21st Century
> http://www.troubleshooters.com/rl21
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>

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Re: Failure

[Michael Ross via dia-list]

Think about what Bad File Descriptor might mean. Maybe you are using
spaces, or special characters that it cannot use?
Dia is an older program and there was a time when file names were
restricted to only certain characters.

Maybe you can share the file descriptor you tried to use?

Mike

On Wed, Dec 5, 2018 at 12:29 PM Gerardo Carbia via dia-list <
dia-list@gnome.org> wrote:

> Hello I am trying to save a file in the program day and when I give it to
> save or save as the following message appears:
>
> \FP ASIR\XBD Xestión de bases de datos\Tarea02\*__dia0808SZ»: Bad file
> descriptor*
>
> neither does it let me export the file to any format!!
>
>
> I hope you can help me solve the problem, thanks
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Re: Maintaining / Helping out on Dia

[Michael Ross via dia-list]

I believe that Steffen (managed producing a windows installer) and Hans
Breuer (who was the main decision maker about the direction of development)
have passed on to their next incarnation. I think Tomas was suggesting to
contact Gnome personnel.  Ownership of the project is locked up and we need
to get a new owner defined.

Many people agree that Dia is worth more development, but there is this
bureaucratic impediment that must be solved.

There is a full archive of past posting to this list and there was some
method that the developers used for communication that was not exposed to
the public.  These would be very instructive to review.  One of the reasons
for the success of Dia was a fairly strict development path that kept the
code light and efficient.  There was always a care to let the users find
workarounds in preference to producing elaborate, but single purpose
functions.  A lot of effort went into interfacing.

If you look through past Dia list postings you can see how many people
would take up using the program and without living with it for very long,
then start demanding enhancements (without any willingness to participate
in code development).  A common result of opensource in a corporate code
world.  Hans would fend off these requests if there was an existent
workaround.  I think this was a good philosophy.

I have been using Dia since the early 2000's.  I don't write code so I do
what I can with it as it is and find other solutions when needed.  Inkscape
and GIMP are good partner tools.

The day will come when I can't get whatever OS Microsoft puts out to work
with Dia. So I hope some folks will take up caring for DIa again.  I will
only be able to run 32 bit programs for a limited time I fear.

 Mike

On Sun, Dec 2, 2018 at 12:38 PM Eduard Nicodei via dia-list <
dia-list@gnome.org> wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> I know this has been asked before but I would like to voice my support as
> well.
>
> I saw Tomas Pospisek's (CC'ed) message on the Dia mailing list some time
> ago about maintaining Dia and getting fixes merged into upstream ("Doing
> some work on Dia").  I was wondering if Tomas or anybody else had time to
> get in touch with Gnome developers / maintainers?
>
> As I replied on the list to a previous email last month, I find it a shame
> that such a useful piece of software is without active development.
>
> In the original "Doing some work on Dia" email, Tomas mentioned:
>
>> Anyway, if anybody wants to help:
>>
>> * triaging bugs
>> * providing patches or testing patch
>> * going through dia forks [3] and extracting useful things
>>
>
> I could help out with any of those (been coding in C for more than 10
> years) - at the current time I can only guarantee a few minutes here and
> there, though I definitely want to get involved.  I was wondering though if
> I could go about these in a prioritised / structure manner?  Or rather what
> would be the most helpful?
>
> Also I'm guessing at the moment there is no real roadmap, etc?  Would it
> be useful first to come up with one?  I'm open to discussion on the dia
> mailing list or IRC channels (though would prefer offline discussion via
> email / gitlab issues).
>
> Tomas Harding also suggested getting in touch with the authors directly,
> the only email I could find was Steffen Macke's (CC'ed) or even with the
> Gnome Bugmaster (also CC'ed).
>
> In any case, I would be really happy to see development on Dia resume :-)
>
> Thank you all for the great work done on Dia everyone!
>
> Best Wishes,
> Eduard
>
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>
>

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Re: Connection Points

[Michael Ross via dia-list]

There are shape and sheet files which direct the placement of connection
points. Good luck.

On Wed, Nov 14, 2018 at 1:07 AM Wes Weber via dia-list 
wrote:

> Is there a way to add/delete connection points from an object?
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>

-- 
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(919) 585-6737 Land
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Google Phone and Text
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Re: How to contribute to documentation

[Michael Ross via dia-list]

This project has been inactive for some years now due death of the
principal motivating leaders.  There is periodic interest in starting up
development, but no one has really taken over management.  I think part of
the issue is there was no succession setup, and the gnomes must be appeased
before any new work can go on referencing the old. You are free to take a
branch of the tree and develop it as you see fit according to the open
source license.

If you look through past emails to this list serve you may be able to
recruit like minded individuals who want to do further development.

On Wed, Nov 14, 2018 at 1:07 AM bcag2  wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I am a doc.ubuntu-fr.org contributor and I use more and more DIA for job
> needs (UML, data base… I appreciate a lot phpmyadmin dia export!) and also
> personal needs (raspberry schematics).
>
> I search information on disable compression file in
>
> http://dia-installer.de/doc/fr/index.html
>
> and didn't find … then finally found in FAQ:
>
> http://dia-installer.de/doc/fr/index.html
>
> Are there a repository (git?) access and can I update this french manual
> to improve it?
>
> Free regards
> --
> *Bertrand * (alias bcag2 on the web)
> touticphoto.fr
>
> send from a free OS...under Ubuntu (GNU/Linux) !
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>
>

-- 
Michael E. Ross
(919) 585-6737 Land
(919) 901-2805 Cell and Text
(919) 576-0824  Tablet,
Google Phone and Text
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Re: How to share dia files with an embedded image

[Michael Ross via dia-list]

I have never used or heard of inline data, but if you say so.  More often
than any other way I would make screen dumps and send them as jpg for
people who were not interested in using Dia.  Sometimes I would export to
pdf, or jpg to get a large Dia all at once.

On Tue, Oct 30, 2018 at 1:14 PM Ritesh Patel via dia-list <
dia-list@gnome.org> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I want to share dia files with Images used in diagram.
>
>
> According to documentation it is possible, Using option "Inline data". But
> for windows installation this option can not be found. So is it working on
> windows, or it is only available for Mac/Linux.
> Or anything else that I am missing in settings?
>
> Thanks.
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>
>

-- 
Michael E. Ross
(919) 585-6737 Land
(919) 901-2805 Cell and Text
(919) 576-0824  Tablet,
Google Phone and Text
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Re: feedback

[Michael Ross via dia-list]

Suggestions below


On Sun, Oct 14, 2018 at 5:48 AM Baddesley(gmail) via dia-list <
dia-list@gnome.org> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I have recently started using Dia and I like it a lot (I’ve used Visio in
> the past), but it does seem to have a lot of bugs. There are a lot of
> improvements that could be made as well, some I have listed below:
>
> 1. When I open a saved diagram, it is often ‘off screen’ and is only
> visible by scrolling up. Surely it should open in the position it was saved
> in.
>
I think you have a hidden entity. It could be the same color as the
background.  It could be on a layer that is not visible (maybe that it
wrong). If you have an entity that has a very large extent, but nothing in
it - like a connection point, that can do it.

>
> 2. When I add a new item (box, text etc.), many, or all of the other items
> already on the page ‘disappear’ until I click around the screen to get them
> back.
>
I think deleting and reinstalling Dia might help this. I seem to remember
this once some years ago.

>
> 3. Why can I not set and save a default location for files – I don’t want
> them saved in Dia or Windows directories.
>
>
I start Dia with a desktop shortcut.  If I right click on the shortcut
there and select Properties there is a field in the Properties window that
is "Start in:" where you can tell it to begin with the directory you
prefer.  Just enter a valid path. Mine looks like this:  "%USERPROFILE%\My
Documents\My Pictures"

>
>
4. Also, why can I not change the default text font or size? It is annoying
> to have to change this every time I add text, as the default is far too big!
>
Any of the basic items, line, text, spline and so on, can have their
defaults set by double clicking on them in the toolbar and setting the font
there in the window that arises.

>
> 5. Why can’t I scroll ‘off screen’ without creating a new item that goes
> off screen? Sometimes, I can’t even scroll back to the start (left edge) of
> the current screen
>

If you zoom to extents (Ctrl-E) the scroll bars will be filling their
extents also.

 If you have items off screen then the scroll bars will have room for
relocation.

>
> I’m sure there’s more, but I can’t think of them at the moment.
>
> Regards,
>
> Steve D.
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>

-- 
Michael E. Ross
(919) 585-6737 Land
(919) 901-2805 Cell and Text
(919) 576-0824  Tablet,
Google Phone and Text
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