Re: Increasing D's visibility
On Thursday, 30 October 2014 at 13:04:26 UTC, First Try wrote: 1.) ADD Windows import of the C headers. 2.) ADD libraries such as Database and Gui 3.) Get a Scanner/Parser Generator going such as Antlr or Coco/r Actually, with DFL and Pegged I'm easily building Windows GUI apps now that use some parsing inside, no major problems there.
Re: Increasing D's visibility
On Thursday, 30 October 2014 at 17:11:40 UTC, First Try wrote: If it wouldn't be impolite, i'd say that you are full of shit. You are betraying people into believing that crap and because of people like you, they will waste a lot of time. All to be found is half-baked stuff - most of it abandoned and as for the windows header files of D, they are utterly incomplete and not usable for 64 bit (Dsource). You ought to be ashamed of yourself. Dsource is woefully out of date and deprecated. Everything you listed have many libraries available, they work well and fully maintained. If only you had politely asked instead of shooting your mouth off, maybe somebody would of shown you where they are.
Re: Increasing D's visibility
On Thursday, 30 October 2014 at 17:11:40 UTC, First Try wrote: On Thursday, 30 October 2014 at 16:48:23 UTC, Gary Willoughby wrote: On Thursday, 30 October 2014 at 13:04:26 UTC, First Try wrote: 1.) ADD Windows import of the C headers. 2.) ADD libraries such as Database and Gui 3.) Get a Scanner/Parser Generator going such as Antlr or Coco/r For now I had to deinstall 'D' again and i guess a lot of other people will do the same. These are all already available. If it wouldn't be impolite, i'd say that you are full of shit. You are betraying people into believing that crap and because of people like you, they will waste a lot of time. All to be found is half-baked stuff - most of it abandoned and as for the windows header files of D, they are utterly incomplete and not usable for 64 bit (Dsource). Ignore Dsource. Look at http://code.dlang.org/ http://code.dlang.org/search?q=windows http://code.dlang.org/search?q=gui (does not match GtkD, though) http://code.dlang.org/search?q=database http://code.dlang.org/search?q=parsing If not found there, ask in the D.learn forum.
Re: Increasing D's visibility
On Wednesday, 17 September 2014 at 15:41:02 UTC, Peter Alexander wrote: On Wednesday, 17 September 2014 at 14:59:48 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: Awesome. Suggestion in order to leverage crowdsourcing: first focus on setting up the test bed such that adding benchmarks is easy. Then you and others can add a bunch of benchmarks. Yep, sounds like a plan. Anything up already? A Github repo or something?
Re: Increasing D's visibility
On Thursday, 18 September 2014 at 03:25:19 UTC, deadalnix wrote: On Thursday, 18 September 2014 at 02:54:33 UTC, Isaac Gouy wrote: On Thursday, 18 September 2014 at 00:59:41 UTC, Vladimir Panteleev wrote: Rule 34 Rule #34 There is porn of it. No exceptions. They refer to checked or unchecked exceptions?
Re: Increasing D's visibility
On Thursday, 30 October 2014 at 10:24:56 UTC, eles wrote: On Thursday, 18 September 2014 at 03:25:19 UTC, deadalnix wrote: On Thursday, 18 September 2014 at 02:54:33 UTC, Isaac Gouy wrote: On Thursday, 18 September 2014 at 00:59:41 UTC, Vladimir Panteleev wrote: Rule 34 Rule #34 There is porn of it. No exceptions. They refer to checked or unchecked exceptions? One *may* find checked exceptions exciting if one is a masochist.
Re: Increasing D's visibility
1.) ADD Windows import of the C headers. 2.) ADD libraries such as Database and Gui 3.) Get a Scanner/Parser Generator going such as Antlr or Coco/r For now I had to deinstall 'D' again and i guess a lot of other people will do the same.
Re: Increasing D's visibility
On Thursday, 30 October 2014 at 13:04:26 UTC, First Try wrote: 1.) ADD Windows import of the C headers. 2.) ADD libraries such as Database and Gui 3.) Get a Scanner/Parser Generator going such as Antlr or Coco/r For now I had to deinstall 'D' again and i guess a lot of other people will do the same. These are all already available.
Re: Increasing D's visibility
On Thursday, 30 October 2014 at 16:48:23 UTC, Gary Willoughby wrote: On Thursday, 30 October 2014 at 13:04:26 UTC, First Try wrote: 1.) ADD Windows import of the C headers. 2.) ADD libraries such as Database and Gui 3.) Get a Scanner/Parser Generator going such as Antlr or Coco/r For now I had to deinstall 'D' again and i guess a lot of other people will do the same. These are all already available. If it wouldn't be impolite, i'd say that you are full of shit. You are betraying people into believing that crap and because of people like you, they will waste a lot of time. All to be found is half-baked stuff - most of it abandoned and as for the windows header files of D, they are utterly incomplete and not usable for 64 bit (Dsource). You ought to be ashamed of yourself.
Re: Increasing D's visibility
On Thursday, 30 October 2014 at 17:11:40 UTC, First Try wrote: On Thursday, 30 October 2014 at 16:48:23 UTC, Gary Willoughby wrote: On Thursday, 30 October 2014 at 13:04:26 UTC, First Try wrote: You ought to be ashamed of yourself. Hey, What about describing a bit more in detail the problems that you did encounter and see what can be done about it? Maybe we'll succeed in providing a wiki guide, too.
Re: Increasing D's visibility
On Thu, 30 Oct 2014 17:11:39 + First Try via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: If it wouldn't be impolite, i'd say that you are full of shit. You are betraying people into believing that crap and because of people like you, they will waste a lot of time. All to be found is half-baked stuff - most of it abandoned and as for the windows header files of D, they are utterly incomplete and not usable for 64 bit (Dsource). You ought to be ashamed of yourself. another drama queen... signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: D (and Groovy) in the Benchmarks Game [was Increasing D's visibility]
On Tue, 2014-09-16 at 21:04 +, Peter Alexander via Digitalmars-d wrote: […] I'll take a stab at it. Will give me something to do on my commute :-) (assuming his scripts work, or can be made to work on OS X). I started doing something similar for Groovy a while back (with @CompileStatic, Groovy should now be as fast as Java for all the benchmarks) but ran out of cycles and had to put it on the back burner. If I could track and chip in with a D variant, mayhap this will help get the Groovy/Java version back on track. I would run the codes on my ancient dual Xeon workstation, so slow for sequential but excellent for dealing with scaling issues. I could easily run D codes as well as the C, C++, Fortran, Java and Groovy ones. For D I would suggest C, C++ and Fortran as the comparison languages. Using the codes Isaac uses would seem entirely appropriate for this, then D is the only variable (other than the machine used for the tests). For the Groovy version my intention had been to use Isaac's C++ and Java as the comparison languages. I had always been intending to publish the results via my own server by adding an extra virtual address to my Apache instance, however if there is a possibility of joining forces with a D activity in the Cloud, I'd be happy to do that. -- Russel. = Dr Russel Winder t: +44 20 7585 2200 voip: sip:russel.win...@ekiga.net 41 Buckmaster Roadm: +44 7770 465 077 xmpp: rus...@winder.org.uk London SW11 1EN, UK w: www.russel.org.uk skype: russel_winder signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: Increasing D's visibility
Andrei Alexandrescu: https://issues.dlang.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13487 If the upload conditions and site are sufficiently good I am willing to offer some implementations in D and to keep them updated. I suggest to add two D versions for some benchmarks, one that shows short high level code, and one that shows longer hairier fast code. In some cases I'd even like to show a third safe version (that tries to be more correct), but most Shootout/ComputerGame benchmarks are not very fit for this (you can see some examples of this on Rosettacode). Bye, bearophile
Re: Increasing D's visibility
On Wednesday, 17 September 2014 at 06:59:40 UTC, bearophile wrote: Andrei Alexandrescu: https://issues.dlang.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13487 If the upload conditions and site are sufficiently good I am willing to offer some implementations in D and to keep them updated. I suggest to add two D versions for some benchmarks, one that shows short high level code, and one that shows longer hairier fast code. In some cases I'd even like to show a third safe version (that tries to be more correct), but most Shootout/ComputerGame benchmarks are not very fit for this (you can see some examples of this on Rosettacode). This is what I intend to do (time permitting) * Direct translation from the C++ version. * High-level version using standard library, particularly ranges (this should be @safe!) * Low-level hand optimized using core.simd (when applicable). * CTFE version! (I imagine this will choke on most benchmarks though...) Of course, I'll test across dmd, gdc, and ldc2. Aside from being PR to show the speed of D, hopefully these benchmarks will serve as test beds for potential optimizations. If anyone already has translations of the benchmark programs then please send them to me (or just reply to the bug with an attachment).
Re: Increasing D's visibility
On Wed, 17 Sep 2014 09:57:02 + Peter Alexander via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: * CTFE version! (I imagine this will choke on most benchmarks though...) nope. it's not compile time that measured, it's execution time. so D will tear apart any other language in this benchmarks. what can be faster that just printing the result and exiting, without any calculation? i'm sure that other languages just can't beat D speed, so they tries to avoid such competition. ;-) signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Increasing D's visibility
Peter Alexander: * Direct translation from the C++ version. * High-level version using standard library, particularly ranges (this should be @safe!) * Low-level hand optimized using core.simd (when applicable). * CTFE version! (I imagine this will choke on most benchmarks though...) The safety-conscious version is missing in this list. Just using ranges doesn't suffice. If anyone already has translations of the benchmark programs then please send them to me (or just reply to the bug with an attachment). I have plenty of D implementations, but keep in mind that D changes, so the various programs will need updates. Bye, bearophile
Re: Increasing D's visibility
On 9/16/14, 11:59 PM, bearophile wrote: Andrei Alexandrescu: https://issues.dlang.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13487 If the upload conditions and site are sufficiently good I am willing to offer some implementations in D and to keep them updated. I suggest to add two D versions for some benchmarks, one that shows short high level code, and one that shows longer hairier fast code. In some cases I'd even like to show a third safe version (that tries to be more correct), but most Shootout/ComputerGame benchmarks are not very fit for this (you can see some examples of this on Rosettacode). I'm glad folks like Alexander, Russel, and yourself are interested in chipping in. Thanks! Let's do it all on the github repo. Add a directory e.g. tools/benchmarks/ and organize things in there. Thanks, Andrei
Re: Increasing D's visibility
On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 07:46:00AM -0700, Andrei Alexandrescu via Digitalmars-d wrote: On 9/16/14, 11:59 PM, bearophile wrote: Andrei Alexandrescu: https://issues.dlang.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13487 If the upload conditions and site are sufficiently good I am willing to offer some implementations in D and to keep them updated. I suggest to add two D versions for some benchmarks, one that shows short high level code, and one that shows longer hairier fast code. In some cases I'd even like to show a third safe version (that tries to be more correct), but most Shootout/ComputerGame benchmarks are not very fit for this (you can see some examples of this on Rosettacode). I'm glad folks like Alexander, Russel, and yourself are interested in chipping in. Thanks! Let's do it all on the github repo. Add a directory e.g. tools/benchmarks/ and organize things in there. [...] Excellent move. If it's in github, then more people can contribute. I might contribute as well, if I find the time to do it. T -- Ignorance is bliss... until you suffer the consequences!
Re: Increasing D's visibility
On 9/17/14, 2:57 AM, Peter Alexander wrote: This is what I intend to do (time permitting) * Direct translation from the C++ version. * High-level version using standard library, particularly ranges (this should be @safe!) * Low-level hand optimized using core.simd (when applicable). * CTFE version! (I imagine this will choke on most benchmarks though...) Of course, I'll test across dmd, gdc, and ldc2. Aside from being PR to show the speed of D, hopefully these benchmarks will serve as test beds for potential optimizations. If anyone already has translations of the benchmark programs then please send them to me (or just reply to the bug with an attachment). Awesome. Suggestion in order to leverage crowdsourcing: first focus on setting up the test bed such that adding benchmarks is easy. Then you and others can add a bunch of benchmarks. Andrei
Re: Increasing D's visibility
On Wednesday, 17 September 2014 at 14:59:48 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: Awesome. Suggestion in order to leverage crowdsourcing: first focus on setting up the test bed such that adding benchmarks is easy. Then you and others can add a bunch of benchmarks. Yep, sounds like a plan.
Re: Increasing D's visibility
On Wed, 2014-09-17 at 07:46 -0700, Andrei Alexandrescu via Digitalmars-d wrote: […] Let's do it all on the github repo. Add a directory e.g. tools/benchmarks/ and organize things in there. A DVCS repository is clearly the correct infrastructure for this, but perhaps it should be a separate standalone one? -- Russel. = Dr Russel Winder t: +44 20 7585 2200 voip: sip:russel.win...@ekiga.net 41 Buckmaster Roadm: +44 7770 465 077 xmpp: rus...@winder.org.uk London SW11 1EN, UK w: www.russel.org.uk skype: russel_winder signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: Increasing D's visibility
On 9/17/14, 8:59 AM, Russel Winder via Digitalmars-d wrote: On Wed, 2014-09-17 at 07:46 -0700, Andrei Alexandrescu via Digitalmars-d wrote: […] Let's do it all on the github repo. Add a directory e.g. tools/benchmarks/ and organize things in there. A DVCS repository is clearly the correct infrastructure for this, but perhaps it should be a separate standalone one? Nothing wrong with starting small and moving later to a larger pond when the need arises. Let's just get this started without worrying too much about minutia. -- Andrei
Re: Increasing D's visibility
On Wed, 2014-09-17 at 09:30 -0700, Andrei Alexandrescu via Digitalmars-d wrote: […] Nothing wrong with starting small and moving later to a larger pond when the need arises. Let's just get this started without worrying too much about minutia. -- Andrei OK so to the minutiae :-) which repository is this directory in? -- Russel. = Dr Russel Winder t: +44 20 7585 2200 voip: sip:russel.win...@ekiga.net 41 Buckmaster Roadm: +44 7770 465 077 xmpp: rus...@winder.org.uk London SW11 1EN, UK w: www.russel.org.uk skype: russel_winder signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: Increasing D's visibility
On Wednesday, 17 September 2014 at 14:45:59 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: On 9/16/14, 11:59 PM, bearophile wrote: Andrei Alexandrescu: https://issues.dlang.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13487 If the upload conditions and site are sufficiently good I am willing to offer some implementations in D and to keep them updated. I suggest to add two D versions for some benchmarks, one that shows short high level code, and one that shows longer hairier fast code. In some cases I'd even like to show a third safe version (that tries to be more correct), but most Shootout/ComputerGame benchmarks are not very fit for this (you can see some examples of this on Rosettacode). I'm glad folks like Alexander, Russel, and yourself are interested in chipping in. Thanks! Let's do it all on the github repo. Add a directory e.g. tools/benchmarks/ and organize things in there. Thanks, Andrei Would this be limited to the Computer Language Benchmarks Game? This paper has gotten a lot of attention among economists: http://www.econ.upenn.edu/~jesusfv/comparison_languages.pdf They mention D, but only to say D, which generates code usually roughly of the same speed as C++, is less popular. Demonstrating that you can write code that is competitive with C++ but in an elegant language would be powerful. Another site is http://quant-econ.net/ which has gotten a lot of attention. It uses Python. I'd like to write D versions of the programs to demonstrate that you can have a language that's both nicer than Python and much, much faster.
Re: Increasing D's visibility
On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 06:45:21PM +0100, Russel Winder via Digitalmars-d wrote: On Wed, 2014-09-17 at 09:30 -0700, Andrei Alexandrescu via Digitalmars-d wrote: […] Nothing wrong with starting small and moving later to a larger pond when the need arises. Let's just get this started without worrying too much about minutia. -- Andrei OK so to the minutiae :-) which repository is this directory in? [...] I believe Andrei was referring to: https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/tools T -- Too many people have open minds but closed eyes.
Re: Increasing D's visibility
On Wednesday, 17 September 2014 at 14:59:48 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: Awesome. Suggestion in order to leverage crowdsourcing: first focus on setting up the test bed such that adding benchmarks is easy. Then you and others can add a bunch of benchmarks. On a somewhat related note, I've been working on a CI system to keep tabs on the compile-time/run-time performance, memory usage and file size for our compilers. It's strictly geared towards executing the same test case on different compiler configurations, though, so it doesn't really overlap with what is proposed here. Right now, its continually building DMD/GDC/LDC from Git and measuring some 40 mostly small benchmarks, but I need to improve the web UI a lot before it is ready for public consumption. Just thought I would mention it here to avoid scope creep in what Peter Alexander (and others) might be working on. Cheers, David
Re: Increasing D's visibility
On Wednesday, 17 September 2014 at 18:30:37 UTC, David Nadlinger wrote: On Wednesday, 17 September 2014 at 14:59:48 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: Awesome. Suggestion in order to leverage crowdsourcing: first focus on setting up the test bed such that adding benchmarks is easy. Then you and others can add a bunch of benchmarks. On a somewhat related note, I've been working on a CI system to keep tabs on the compile-time/run-time performance, memory usage and file size for our compilers. It's strictly geared towards executing the same test case on different compiler configurations, though, so it doesn't really overlap with what is proposed here. Right now, its continually building DMD/GDC/LDC from Git and measuring some 40 mostly small benchmarks, but I need to improve the web UI a lot before it is ready for public consumption. Just thought I would mention it here to avoid scope creep in what Peter Alexander (and others) might be working on. That sounds great. I'm not planning anything grand with this. I'm just going to get the already exiting benchmark framework working with dmd, ldc, and gdc; and put it on github so people can contribute implementations. I imagine what you have could probably be extended to do comparisons with other languages, but I think there's still value in getting these benchmarks working because they are so well known and respected.
Re: Increasing D's visibility
On Wed, 2014-09-17 at 17:50 +, bachmeier via Digitalmars-d wrote: […] which has gotten a lot of attention. It uses Python. I'd like to write D versions of the programs to demonstrate that you can have a language that's both nicer than Python and much, much faster. You can no longer bet on that and expect to win. Python + Numba is likely as fast as C/C++/D/…. OK so quants are currently using Python + NumPy which C/C++/D can generally comfortably beat. But you need to get you returns in quick before I and others get the quants using Python + Numba. -- Russel. = Dr Russel Winder t: +44 20 7585 2200 voip: sip:russel.win...@ekiga.net 41 Buckmaster Roadm: +44 7770 465 077 xmpp: rus...@winder.org.uk London SW11 1EN, UK w: www.russel.org.uk skype: russel_winder signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: Increasing D's visibility
On Wednesday, 17 September 2014 at 18:58:20 UTC, Peter Alexander wrote: I imagine what you have could probably be extended to do comparisons with other languages, Not really. Well, I could always add some sort of reference functionality to compare the results to equivalent C++/… implementations, but my focus definitely is on tracking compiler development over time. but I think there's still value in getting these benchmarks working because they are so well known and respected. Definitely! I'll be adding them to my test suite as well, but my audience is a different one. David
Re: Increasing D's visibility
On Wednesday, 17 September 2014 at 18:30:37 UTC, David Nadlinger wrote: -snip- On a somewhat related note, I've been working on a CI system to keep tabs on the compile-time/run-time performance, memory usage and file size for our compilers. Maybe you've seen Emery Berger's work on Stabilizer? http://plasma.cs.umass.edu/emery/stabilizer I'm not smart enough to understand how that could be applied to D compilers ;)
Re: Increasing D's visibility
On 9/17/14, 10:45 AM, Russel Winder via Digitalmars-d wrote: On Wed, 2014-09-17 at 09:30 -0700, Andrei Alexandrescu via Digitalmars-d wrote: […] Nothing wrong with starting small and moving later to a larger pond when the need arises. Let's just get this started without worrying too much about minutia. -- Andrei OK so to the minutiae :-) which repository is this directory in? Just put it in tools/benchmarks/ for now and stop worrying about it. We can move it later. -- Andrei
Re: Increasing D's visibility
On Tuesday, 16 September 2014 at 05:27:15 UTC, Isaac Gouy wrote: On Tuesday, 16 September 2014 at 02:20:18 UTC, Freddy wrote: What The D community do wrong in the first place? Nothing. There are just too many language implementations. It takes more time than I choose to donate. Been there; done that. Hi Isaac, Off-topic question: I've been wondering, how do you magically appear here every time the Shootout is mentioned? Someone contacted you, or HTTP referrer logs?
Re: Increasing D's visibility
On Thursday, 18 September 2014 at 00:59:41 UTC, Vladimir Panteleev wrote: -snip- Off-topic question: I've been wondering, how do you magically appear here every time the Shootout is mentioned? Google magic. The project was renamed 6 years ago, it's the benchmarks game. Google shootout and you'll find porn and gun fights.
Re: Increasing D's visibility
On Thursday, 18 September 2014 at 02:54:33 UTC, Isaac Gouy wrote: On Thursday, 18 September 2014 at 00:59:41 UTC, Vladimir Panteleev wrote: -snip- Off-topic question: I've been wondering, how do you magically appear here every time the Shootout is mentioned? Google magic. The project was renamed 6 years ago, it's the benchmarks game. Google shootout and you'll find porn and gun fights. Rule 34
Re: Increasing D's visibility
On Monday, 15 September 2014 at 20:09:31 UTC, Martin Nowak wrote: http://learnxinyminutes.com/ On Monday, 18 November 2013 at 12:38:31 UTC, anonymous wrote: I had a go at it a while ago, but I lost interest. Here's what I came up with: https://gist.github.com/anonymous/7527033. If anyone wants to get this done, take what you want from my draft. http://forum.dlang.org/thread/l6baie$vci$1...@digitalmars.com
Re: Increasing D's visibility
On Mon, 15 Sep 2014 20:37:50 -0700 Andrei Alexandrescu via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: Isaac removed D for ease of maintenance reasons and a few in the community rushed to accuse him of bias. but he IS biased. why D? there are alot of other languages, so unless there are concrete evidences that he decided which language to remove by fair dice roll, it's safe to assume that he is biased. D is less known that XYZ so drop D is biased POV, for example. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Increasing D's visibility
On Tuesday, 16 September 2014 at 13:39:07 UTC, ketmar via Digitalmars-d wrote: On Mon, 15 Sep 2014 20:37:50 -0700 Andrei Alexandrescu via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: Isaac removed D for ease of maintenance reasons and a few in the community rushed to accuse him of bias. but he IS biased. why D? there are alot of other languages, so unless there are concrete evidences that he decided which language to remove by fair dice roll, it's safe to assume that he is biased. D is less known that XYZ so drop D is biased POV, for example. Why does it matter why D was dropped? If he did it because of racism there might be a reason to talk about it, but my understanding is that it's a volunteer site he runs just for the heck of it, so it's okay even if he dropped D only because he doesn't like it. There's nothing to be gained by pushing the issue.
Re: Increasing D's visibility
On Tue, 16 Sep 2014 13:51:14 + bachmeier via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: Why does it matter why D was dropped? it's not about D, it's about biasing. note that i'm not saying that there were some bad intentions, i'm just saying that Isaac was biased, in one way or another. 'cause he is human, and most of human actions are somehow biased. i'm not trying to make any ethical assessment, just pointed at the fact. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Increasing D's visibility
On 9/16/14, 7:04 AM, ketmar via Digitalmars-d wrote: On Tue, 16 Sep 2014 13:51:14 + bachmeier via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: Why does it matter why D was dropped? it's not about D, it's about biasing. note that i'm not saying that there were some bad intentions, i'm just saying that Isaac was biased, in one way or another. 'cause he is human, and most of human actions are somehow biased. i'm not trying to make any ethical assessment, just pointed at the fact. The important question at this point is - do we have a volunteer for dlang.org/shootout.html? Andrei
Re: Increasing D's visibility
I'd say, run the damned benchmark for C and D. C would setup performance scale. What would be interesting is to see, how compiler switches affect performance, especially assert vs release mode and bounds checking on/off.
Re: Increasing D's visibility
Also: http://forum.dlang.org/post/op.xl87ulu4eav7ka@stevens-macbook-pro-2.local
Re: Increasing D's visibility
On 9/16/14, 9:44 AM, Kagamin wrote: I'd say, run the damned benchmark for C and D. C would setup performance scale. What would be interesting is to see, how compiler switches affect performance, especially assert vs release mode and bounds checking on/off. I agree that C and D should be enough. Perhaps C++ and one more near the top (Ada, Fortran) would be good for context. Who wants to do this? Isaac made his setup publicly available. Andrei
Re: Increasing D's visibility
Dlang on 4chan http://boards.4chan.org/g/thread/44196390/dlang
Re: Increasing D's visibility
On 09/16/2014 07:32 PM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: I agree that C and D should be enough. Perhaps C++ and one more near the top (Ada, Fortran) would be good for context. Who wants to do this? Isaac made his setup publicly available. There was actually someone working on this a year ago or so, but I can't find the github project and don't remember who it was.
Re: Increasing D's visibility
On Tuesday, 16 September 2014 at 17:32:39 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: On 9/16/14, 9:44 AM, Kagamin wrote: I'd say, run the damned benchmark for C and D. C would setup performance scale. What would be interesting is to see, how compiler switches affect performance, especially assert vs release mode and bounds checking on/off. I agree that C and D should be enough. Perhaps C++ and one more near the top (Ada, Fortran) would be good for context. Who wants to do this? Isaac made his setup publicly available. I'll take a stab at it. Will give me something to do on my commute :-) (assuming his scripts work, or can be made to work on OS X).
Re: Increasing D's visibility
On 16.9.2014 20:07, Anonymous via Digitalmars-d wrote: Dlang on 4chan http://boards.4chan.org/g/thread/44196390/dlang Yeah, and the discussion is just in line with typical 4chan discussions :-) A1) Andrei is fucking hot and he's not russian A2) @A1: Andrei will never be your husbando Why bother living?
Re: Increasing D's visibility
On Tuesday, 16 September 2014 at 21:21:08 UTC, Martin Drasar via Digitalmars-d wrote: On 16.9.2014 20:07, Anonymous via Digitalmars-d wrote: Dlang on 4chan http://boards.4chan.org/g/thread/44196390/dlang Yeah, and the discussion is just in line with typical 4chan discussions :-) A1) Andrei is fucking hot and he's not russian A2) @A1: Andrei will never be your husbando Why bother living? Also: A) GC bad! I can manage memory myself, and multithreading is child's-play - people who use D must be slow and stupid... *snort* Ok, you and your delusions of competence are excused from the conversation now...
Re: Increasing D's visibility
On Tuesday, 16 September 2014 at 21:21:08 UTC, Martin Drasar via Digitalmars-d wrote: On 16.9.2014 20:07, Anonymous via Digitalmars-d wrote: Dlang on 4chan http://boards.4chan.org/g/thread/44196390/dlang Yeah, and the discussion is just in line with typical 4chan discussions :-) A1) Andrei is fucking hot and he's not russian A2) @A1: Andrei will never be your husbando Why bother living? Those ones gave me a laugh.
Re: Increasing D's visibility
On Tuesday, 16 September 2014 at 21:04:59 UTC, Peter Alexander wrote: -snip- I'll take a stab at it. Will give me something to do on my commute :-) (assuming his scripts work, or can be made to work on OS X). It'll be interesting to see which linux stuff is missing: -- without libgtop2 you could still get cpu and elapsed times (but not resident memory or CPU load) -- without highlight you could still get gzip source code size (but the source would include comments and whitespace) When you have questions, please ask in the benchmarks game discussion forum -- http://benchmarksgame.alioth.debian.org/play.html#misc
Re: Increasing D's visibility
On Tuesday, 16 September 2014 at 22:26:48 UTC, Isaac Gouy wrote: On Tuesday, 16 September 2014 at 21:04:59 UTC, Peter Alexander wrote: -snip- I'll take a stab at it. Will give me something to do on my commute :-) (assuming his scripts work, or can be made to work on OS X). It'll be interesting to see which linux stuff is missing: -- without libgtop2 you could still get cpu and elapsed times (but not resident memory or CPU load) -- without highlight you could still get gzip source code size (but the source would include comments and whitespace) When you have questions, please ask in the benchmarks game discussion forum -- http://benchmarksgame.alioth.debian.org/play.html#misc Thanks Isaac. I think we can live without the resident memory, CPU load, and source size for now. I'll focus on getting some CPU time benchmarks first.
Re: Increasing D's visibility
On 9/16/14, 2:04 PM, Peter Alexander wrote: On Tuesday, 16 September 2014 at 17:32:39 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: On 9/16/14, 9:44 AM, Kagamin wrote: I'd say, run the damned benchmark for C and D. C would setup performance scale. What would be interesting is to see, how compiler switches affect performance, especially assert vs release mode and bounds checking on/off. I agree that C and D should be enough. Perhaps C++ and one more near the top (Ada, Fortran) would be good for context. Who wants to do this? Isaac made his setup publicly available. I'll take a stab at it. Will give me something to do on my commute :-) (assuming his scripts work, or can be made to work on OS X). Fantastic. Thanks! Created this just for you: https://issues.dlang.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13487 Andrei
Increasing D's visibility
Whenever I stumble about a list of programming languages, D is missing. Not that most of those lists matter, but raising our presence would help us to get more people and more contributions to the language and it's ecosystem. # http://learnxinyminutes.com/ # unbelievable we're still missing in the programming language shootout http://benchmarksgame.alioth.debian.org/ # list of client libraries, it's a really simple HTTP API http://influxdb.com/docs/v0.8/introduction/getting_started.html Sometimes it's a bigger effort, like writing a library or a tutorial, but often it's really simple, like adding a link or pointing someone to an existing D library. For example I added D to a wiki page just recently. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glob_(programming)#Implementations Spread the word -Martin
Re: Increasing D's visibility
The benchmarks guy seems to have some kind of issue with D. He claims it's too much effort or some nonsense. On Monday, 15 September 2014 at 20:09:31 UTC, Martin Nowak wrote: Whenever I stumble about a list of programming languages, D is missing. Not that most of those lists matter, but raising our presence would help us to get more people and more contributions to the language and it's ecosystem. # http://learnxinyminutes.com/ # unbelievable we're still missing in the programming language shootout http://benchmarksgame.alioth.debian.org/ # list of client libraries, it's a really simple HTTP API http://influxdb.com/docs/v0.8/introduction/getting_started.html Sometimes it's a bigger effort, like writing a library or a tutorial, but often it's really simple, like adding a link or pointing someone to an existing D library. For example I added D to a wiki page just recently. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glob_(programming)#Implementations Spread the word -Martin
Re: Increasing D's visibility
On Monday, 15 September 2014 at 20:09:31 UTC, Martin Nowak wrote: # unbelievable we're still missing in the programming language shootout http://benchmarksgame.alioth.debian.org/ D is one of the 30 or so language implementations not measured on Q6600 that were measured on Pentium 4 before September 2008. http://benchmarksgame.alioth.debian.org/dont-jump-to-conclusions.html#multicore Why don't you include language X? http://benchmarksgame.alioth.debian.org/play.html#languagex
Re: Increasing D's visibility
Isaac Gouy: Why don't you include language X? http://benchmarksgame.alioth.debian.org/play.html#languagex From that page: By now - if they had actually made measurements, and published and promoted them - their website would be highly ranked. This is probably false, for two or more reasons. Bye, bearophile
Re: Increasing D's visibility
On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 11:56:21PM +, bearophile via Digitalmars-d wrote: Isaac Gouy: Why don't you include language X? http://benchmarksgame.alioth.debian.org/play.html#languagex From that page: By now - if they had actually made measurements, and published and promoted them - their website would be highly ranked. This is probably false, for two or more reasons. [...] It's usually a waste of time trying to work with people like that who have already made up their minds about something, and obviously isn't going to budge no matter what. I'd say we should start our own webpage and post results of our own performance tests. In this day and age of social networks, all it takes is a little promotion and the news will get around. As long as our benchmarks are objective and we don't try to deliberately skew results in D's favor, it should eventually get noticed (and linked to) by reasonable people, and it will become known. T -- INTEL = Only half of intelligence.
Re: Increasing D's visibility
On Monday, 15 September 2014 at 23:56:23 UTC, bearophile wrote: -snip- By now - if they had actually made measurements, and published and promoted them - their website would be highly ranked. This is probably false, for two or more reasons. It's so much less-effort to assume failure than to do the work required to make a success ;-)
Re: Increasing D's visibility
On 9/15/14, 5:11 PM, H. S. Teoh via Digitalmars-d wrote: On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 11:56:21PM +, bearophile via Digitalmars-d wrote: Isaac Gouy: Why don't you include language X? http://benchmarksgame.alioth.debian.org/play.html#languagex From that page: By now - if they had actually made measurements, and published and promoted them - their website would be highly ranked. This is probably false, for two or more reasons. [...] It's usually a waste of time trying to work with people like that who have already made up their minds about something, and obviously isn't going to budge no matter what. My understanding of this situation is different. We've wronged the man in the past and a sign of good will from us would go a long way. Continuing to assume he's at fault and there's nothing we can do just prolongs the stalemate. I'd say we should start our own webpage and post results of our own performance tests. In this day and age of social networks, all it takes is a little promotion and the news will get around. As long as our benchmarks are objective and we don't try to deliberately skew results in D's favor, it should eventually get noticed (and linked to) by reasonable people, and it will become known. That would be exactly what's needed. Who's volunteering? Andrei
Re: Increasing D's visibility
On Tuesday, 16 September 2014 at 01:43:15 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: My understanding of this situation is different. We've wronged the man in the past and a sign of good will from us would go a long way. Andrei What The D community do wrong in the first place?
Re: Increasing D's visibility
On 9/15/14, 7:20 PM, Freddy wrote: On Tuesday, 16 September 2014 at 01:43:15 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: My understanding of this situation is different. We've wronged the man in the past and a sign of good will from us would go a long way. Andrei What The D community do wrong in the first place? http://forum.dlang.org/thread/hfubfc$jrr$2...@digitalmars.com Isaac removed D for ease of maintenance reasons and a few in the community rushed to accuse him of bias. Andrei
Re: Increasing D's visibility
On Tuesday, 16 September 2014 at 01:43:15 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: That would be exactly what's needed. Who's volunteering? I guess I already somehow did. I am in the progress of building a benchmarking suite: https://github.com/ThomasMader/benchmark Currently it is possible to benchmark some of the benchmarks from benchmarksgame.alioth.debian.org. For the moment I start with Java and port the benchmarks directly to D and benchmark dmd, gdc and ldc versions. I also benchmark the compilation because I find it important for a language comparison. I plan to include other languages which make sense (like C++) to compare them against D but not the full set from the benchmarksgame. I would like to make it platform dependent. (Win, Linux, Mac) In the moment it's Linux only though and measures everything exactly the same as on http://benchmarksgame.alioth.debian.org/play.html with the exception of code-used. I tried to keep out external dependencies so I am not using libGTop for the measurement but implemented it myself. I am not sure if the code-used measurement is meaningful or not so if anybody has some arguments please elaborate. Everything is printed to stdout only for now because serialisation is missing. I have not yet decided which format I use but I don't want to implement something. It needs to be in phobos. I thought about JSON or XML but AFAIK the phobos implementations will be replaced in the future. It should be widely accepted and should have less overhead. (Don't like XML for that matter) If anybody has some remarks regarding any matter don't hesitate to put them here. This is a fun project for me to get to write and learn D and maybe help D to get some more attention. But don't expect fast progress. ;-) Thomas
Re: Increasing D's visibility
On Tuesday, 16 September 2014 at 02:20:18 UTC, Freddy wrote: What The D community do wrong in the first place? Nothing. There are just too many language implementations. It takes more time than I choose to donate. Been there; done that.
Re: Increasing D's visibility
On Tuesday, 16 September 2014 at 03:53:10 UTC, Thomas Mader wrote: I am in the progress of building a benchmarking suite … But don't expect fast progress. ;-) Well, for faster progress, someone could just take the Python scripts from the benchmarks game, measure programs and figure out how they were going to publish the measurements (and keep them up-to-date, and whether they'd accept contributed programs, and how to manage that, and … ). And once that was working, write a benchmarking suite :-)
