Re: Some questions on latest work
On Wednesday, 4 May 2016 at 09:52:25 UTC, Bruno Medeiros wrote: You've never had a proper, balanced, well-meaning Ayahuasca ceremony, have you? Or if you had, you got the wrong message. That is clear from the way you present your arguments in a very non-emphatic way. And you talk about letting go of the ego, ha... " So many gods So many creeds, So many paths that wind and wind While just the art of being kind is all this sad world needs. I am the voice of the voiceless Through me the mute shall speak 'til the deaf world's ear be made to hear the cry of the wordless weak. " -- Ella Wheeler Wilcox
Re: Some questions on latest work
On Wednesday, 4 May 2016 at 02:42:40 UTC, Bill Hicks wrote: On Tuesday, 3 May 2016 at 19:05:03 UTC, ShamShime Azelkraft wrote: On Tuesday, 26 April 2016 at 21:49:33 UTC, Bill Hicks wrote: I suggest you smoke some DMT (and have a breakthrough), or have a few Ayahuasca sessions. If that doesn't set you off on a path to the greatest positive impact, then nothing ever will. Everything you've desired to achieve with D is a construct of your ego, and nothing more. ... DMT: The Spirit Molecule (2010) HD https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LtT6Xkk-kzk Sorry Bill but reading a few wikipedia articles about the Beats and Carlos Castenada doesn't a spiritual guru make... even if you did get as far as a couple of youtube videos as well.
Re: Some questions on latest work
On Tuesday, 3 May 2016 at 19:54:06 UTC, tsbockman wrote: On Friday, 29 April 2016 at 10:06:06 UTC, Bienlein wrote: All right, thanks for the hint. Is there a timeline till when this DIP will be implemented? No; that particular solution might never be implemented at all. Getting safe reference counting working well in D (*somehow*) is a high priority, though. Andrei Alexandrescu is giving the opening keynote for DConf 2016 tomorrow: http://dconf.org/2016/schedule/ From the abstract, it sounds like he will be discussing the reference counting problem again. Also it would be nice if the GC, that does not leak with 32-bit D, would be plugged into 32-bit D from the beginning. Jeremy DeHaan just started a Google Summer of Code project to make D's GC precise - or at least much *more* precise than it is now: http://forum.dlang.org/post/dgvhslayxialmebvj...@forum.dlang.org If he is able to meet his proposed schedule, I expect there will be a D release with a much less leaky GC in 6 months to a year. All right, that was constructive. Thanks.
Re: Some questions on latest work
On Sunday, 1 May 2016 at 07:35:43 UTC, Bill Hicks wrote: ... https://www.reddit.com/r/iamverysmart
Re: Some questions on latest work
On 01/05/2016 08:35, Bill Hicks wrote: On Wednesday, 27 April 2016 at 18:08:20 UTC, Steven Schveighoffer wrote: On 4/27/16 1:56 PM, Bill Hicks wrote: On Wednesday, 27 April 2016 at 15:14:17 UTC, Steven Schveighoffer wrote: I'm just gonna leave this here. http://techcrunch.com/2014/04/03/tesco-buys-into-ad-tech-as-big-data-division-dunnhumby-buys-sociomantic-for-over-100m/ And a Big Mac is a healthy alternative to unprocessed organic food because McDonald's has made billions in profit. As far as a business is concerned, McDonalds is not just a "throwaway hobby project". I'll let you continue finding absolutely irrelevant analogies to this if you wish, but I'm out. -Steve One can only feel sorry for people like you. That red-white-and-blue capitalist dick has been shoved so deep up your butthole that you can't see straight. Michael Parenti explaining how those corporations become so 'successful': https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEzOgpMWnVs Here is another: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxcgm-atVlc You never know, you might learn a thing or two. You've never had a proper, balanced, well-meaning Ayahuasca ceremony, have you? Or if you had, you got the wrong message. That is clear from the way you present your arguments in a very non-emphatic way. And you talk about letting go of the ego, ha... -- Bruno Medeiros https://twitter.com/brunodomedeiros
Re: Some questions on latest work
On Tuesday, 3 May 2016 at 19:05:03 UTC, ShamShime Azelkraft wrote: On Tuesday, 26 April 2016 at 21:49:33 UTC, Bill Hicks wrote: I suggest you smoke some DMT (and have a breakthrough), or have a few Ayahuasca sessions. If that doesn't set you off on a path to the greatest positive impact, then nothing ever will. Everything you've desired to achieve with D is a construct of your ego, and nothing more. ... DMT: The Spirit Molecule (2010) HD https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LtT6Xkk-kzk
Re: Some questions on latest work
On Friday, 29 April 2016 at 10:06:06 UTC, Bienlein wrote: All right, thanks for the hint. Is there a timeline till when this DIP will be implemented? No; that particular solution might never be implemented at all. Getting safe reference counting working well in D (*somehow*) is a high priority, though. Andrei Alexandrescu is giving the opening keynote for DConf 2016 tomorrow: http://dconf.org/2016/schedule/ From the abstract, it sounds like he will be discussing the reference counting problem again. Also it would be nice if the GC, that does not leak with 32-bit D, would be plugged into 32-bit D from the beginning. Jeremy DeHaan just started a Google Summer of Code project to make D's GC precise - or at least much *more* precise than it is now: http://forum.dlang.org/post/dgvhslayxialmebvj...@forum.dlang.org If he is able to meet his proposed schedule, I expect there will be a D release with a much less leaky GC in 6 months to a year.
Re: Some questions on latest work
On Tuesday, 26 April 2016 at 21:49:33 UTC, Bill Hicks wrote: I suggest you smoke some DMT (and have a breakthrough), or have a few Ayahuasca sessions. If that doesn't set you off on a path to the greatest positive impact, then nothing ever will. Everything you've desired to achieve with D is a construct of your ego, and nothing more. You know the name but you ignore the effects. Look at this guy (famous BTW): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXitvt24Q6w He's not cool, he's ridiculous. No more filter. What are those 'Ayahuasca' idea ? Do you want to look like Cassidy, in this particular setup ? The complete village idiot ?
Re: Some questions on latest work
On Sunday, 1 May 2016 at 07:35:43 UTC, Bill Hicks wrote: On Wednesday, 27 April 2016 at 18:08:20 UTC, Steven Schveighoffer wrote: On 4/27/16 1:56 PM, Bill Hicks wrote: On Wednesday, 27 April 2016 at 15:14:17 UTC, Steven Schveighoffer wrote: I'm just gonna leave this here. http://techcrunch.com/2014/04/03/tesco-buys-into-ad-tech-as-big-data-division-dunnhumby-buys-sociomantic-for-over-100m/ And a Big Mac is a healthy alternative to unprocessed organic food because McDonald's has made billions in profit. As far as a business is concerned, McDonalds is not just a "throwaway hobby project". I'll let you continue finding absolutely irrelevant analogies to this if you wish, but I'm out. -Steve One can only feel sorry for people like you. That red-white-and-blue capitalist dick has been shoved so deep up your butthole that you can't see straight. Michael Parenti explaining how those corporations become so 'successful': https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEzOgpMWnVs Here is another: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxcgm-atVlc You never know, you might learn a thing or two. Bill - please stop trolling this forum. If there is concrete stuff you don't like about D, please criticize in a rational way with arguments or better open a PR. If you don't like D, do something good with your time. Start your own open source project - or if you aren't in coding there are so many other good things that can be done in the world ;-)
Re: Some questions on latest work
On Wednesday, 27 April 2016 at 18:08:20 UTC, Steven Schveighoffer wrote: On 4/27/16 1:56 PM, Bill Hicks wrote: On Wednesday, 27 April 2016 at 15:14:17 UTC, Steven Schveighoffer wrote: I'm just gonna leave this here. http://techcrunch.com/2014/04/03/tesco-buys-into-ad-tech-as-big-data-division-dunnhumby-buys-sociomantic-for-over-100m/ And a Big Mac is a healthy alternative to unprocessed organic food because McDonald's has made billions in profit. As far as a business is concerned, McDonalds is not just a "throwaway hobby project". I'll let you continue finding absolutely irrelevant analogies to this if you wish, but I'm out. -Steve One can only feel sorry for people like you. That red-white-and-blue capitalist dick has been shoved so deep up your butthole that you can't see straight. Michael Parenti explaining how those corporations become so 'successful': https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEzOgpMWnVs Here is another: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxcgm-atVlc You never know, you might learn a thing or two.
Re: Some questions on latest work
On Tuesday, 26 April 2016 at 12:34:49 UTC, cym13 wrote: On Tuesday, 26 April 2016 at 12:19:40 UTC, Bienlein wrote: Hi deadalnix, thanks for taking the time to answer my questions. The issue with RefCounted and classes appears to be fixed. I found this: http://wiki.dlang.org/DIP74. I also found evidence on the Internet that the GC leaking memory is only an issue with 32 bit machines. Looks like I could have just googled those things. Didn't expect things to be that easy. Anyway, thanks for answering. Beware that what you found is but an Improvement Proposal, it hasn't been accepted in its current state yet and it hasn't been implemented either. All right, thanks for the hint. Is there a timeline till when this DIP will be implemented? Also it would be nice if the GC, that does not leak with 32-bit D, would be plugged into 32-bit D from the beginning. Regards, Bienlein
Re: Some questions on latest work
On Thursday, 28 April 2016 at 22:40:36 UTC, Timon Gehr wrote:
On 28.04.2016 05:55, Joakim wrote:
On Wednesday, 27 April 2016 at 18:38:17 UTC, Max Samukha wrote:
[...]
Syntax matters. Both for the ease of programmers reading it
and, as
we've seen with C++, the speed of the compiler.
I look at that code sample and I don't want to read code like
that. I
have the same feeling when I see template-heavy C++ code. It
is one of
the primary reasons I use D, because it reads very easily to
me.
Is it just because I'm used to C-style code? Is it purely
aesthetic? I
don't know, but there is a difference. Walter has talked
about an
aesthetic quality to D that he tries to optimize, and whatever
it is, it
comes through to me.
...
This is some D code I wrote:
template CreateBinderForDependent(string name, string
fun=lowerf(name)){
mixin(mixin(X!q{
template @(name)(string s, bool propErr = true)
if(s.split(",")[0].split(";").length==2){
enum ss = s.split(";");
enum var = ss[0];
enum spl = var.split(" ");
enum varn = strip(spl.length==1?var:spl[$-1]);
enum sss = ss[1].split(",");
enum e1 = sss[0];
enum er = sss[1..$].join(" , ");
enum @(name)=`
auto _@(name)_`~varn~`=`~e1~`.@(fun)(`~er~`);
if(auto d=_@(name)_`~varn~`.dependee){
static if(is(typeof(return) A:
Dependent!T,T)) return d.dependent!T;
else
mixin(`~(propErr?q{SemProp}:q{PropRetry})~`!q{sc=d.scope_;d.node});
}
`~(propErr?`assert(!_@(name)_`~varn~`.dependee,text("illegal
dependee ",_@(name)_`~varn~`.dependee.node,"
",_@(name)_`~varn~`.dependee.node.sstate));`:``)~`
static
if(!is(typeof(_@(name)_`~varn~`)==Dependent!void))`~var~`=_@(name)_`~varn~`.value;
`;
}
}));
}
Ugly code can be written in any language.
I agree, both about the D code sample and the principle, but
that's a very high bar. This is uncommon code, likely impossible
in most languages. Whereas the Rust code seems like something
you'd be more likely to run into, though I don't know what either
code sample does nor do I want to look deeper to find out. ;)
Is common code ugly? That's the threshold that must not be
crossed, and I believe Walter says the same above, in a different
way.
Re: Some questions on latest work
On 4/28/2016 3:40 PM, Timon Gehr wrote: Ugly code can be written in any language. Of course. But my problem is when there is no way to write an attractive piece of code to perform some functionality, i.e. if you *cannot* write beautiful code.
Re: Some questions on latest work
On Fri, Apr 29, 2016 at 12:40:36AM +0200, Timon Gehr via Digitalmars-d wrote: [...] > Ugly code can be written in any language. "Real programmers can write assembly code in any language. :-)" -- Larry Wall :-P T -- If the comments and the code disagree, it's likely that *both* are wrong. -- Christopher
Re: Some questions on latest work
On 28.04.2016 05:55, Joakim wrote:
On Wednesday, 27 April 2016 at 18:38:17 UTC, Max Samukha wrote:
On Tuesday, 26 April 2016 at 18:16:42 UTC, Joakim wrote:
He gave very specific criticism, along with a code sample, then made
a prediction, followed by suggesting another competing language that
might do better. None of that is the usual content-free fanboy
"bashing." There is nothing wrong with occasional criticism of the
competition, as long as we don't overdo it, either in frequency or by
exaggerating.
No, judging a language by the appearance of its syntax *is* fanboy
bashing. BTW, some interesting points about Swift made by a Rust
designer http://graydon2.dreamwidth.org/5785.html.
Syntax matters. Both for the ease of programmers reading it and, as
we've seen with C++, the speed of the compiler.
I look at that code sample and I don't want to read code like that. I
have the same feeling when I see template-heavy C++ code. It is one of
the primary reasons I use D, because it reads very easily to me.
Is it just because I'm used to C-style code? Is it purely aesthetic? I
don't know, but there is a difference. Walter has talked about an
aesthetic quality to D that he tries to optimize, and whatever it is, it
comes through to me.
...
This is some D code I wrote:
template CreateBinderForDependent(string name, string fun=lowerf(name)){
mixin(mixin(X!q{
template @(name)(string s, bool propErr = true)
if(s.split(",")[0].split(";").length==2){
enum ss = s.split(";");
enum var = ss[0];
enum spl = var.split(" ");
enum varn = strip(spl.length==1?var:spl[$-1]);
enum sss = ss[1].split(",");
enum e1 = sss[0];
enum er = sss[1..$].join(" , ");
enum @(name)=`
auto _@(name)_`~varn~`=`~e1~`.@(fun)(`~er~`);
if(auto d=_@(name)_`~varn~`.dependee){
static if(is(typeof(return) A: Dependent!T,T))
return d.dependent!T;
else
mixin(`~(propErr?q{SemProp}:q{PropRetry})~`!q{sc=d.scope_;d.node});
}
`~(propErr?`assert(!_@(name)_`~varn~`.dependee,text("illegal dependee
",_@(name)_`~varn~`.dependee.node,"
",_@(name)_`~varn~`.dependee.node.sstate));`:``)~`
static
if(!is(typeof(_@(name)_`~varn~`)==Dependent!void))`~var~`=_@(name)_`~varn~`.value;
`;
}
}));
}
Ugly code can be written in any language.
Re: Some questions on latest work
On 4/26/2016 2:49 PM, Bill Hicks wrote: [...] Criticizing D is fine here. Personal attacks are not welcome.
Re: Some questions on latest work
On Tuesday, 26 April 2016 at 21:49:33 UTC, Bill Hicks wrote: On Tuesday, 26 April 2016 at 02:33:41 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: That's a pretty awesome rant! Bill, could you please email me your mailing address? I'd be glad to send you a DConf T-shirt. Thanks! -- Andrei Quitting a well paying job at Facebook to peruse a hobby sounds like something a person going through midlife crisis would do. You may keep the T-shirt. I suggest you smoke some DMT (and have a breakthrough), or have a few Ayahuasca sessions. If that doesn't set you off on a path to the greatest positive impact, then nothing ever will. Everything you've desired to achieve with D is a construct of your ego, and nothing more. Someone didn't have their meds today.
Re: Some questions on latest work
On Wednesday, 27 April 2016 at 18:38:17 UTC, Max Samukha wrote: On Tuesday, 26 April 2016 at 18:16:42 UTC, Joakim wrote: He gave very specific criticism, along with a code sample, then made a prediction, followed by suggesting another competing language that might do better. None of that is the usual content-free fanboy "bashing." There is nothing wrong with occasional criticism of the competition, as long as we don't overdo it, either in frequency or by exaggerating. No, judging a language by the appearance of its syntax *is* fanboy bashing. BTW, some interesting points about Swift made by a Rust designer http://graydon2.dreamwidth.org/5785.html. Syntax matters. Both for the ease of programmers reading it and, as we've seen with C++, the speed of the compiler. I look at that code sample and I don't want to read code like that. I have the same feeling when I see template-heavy C++ code. It is one of the primary reasons I use D, because it reads very easily to me. Is it just because I'm used to C-style code? Is it purely aesthetic? I don't know, but there is a difference. Walter has talked about an aesthetic quality to D that he tries to optimize, and whatever it is, it comes through to me. And whatever you may think of Suliman's and my opinion, I guarantee that Rust's syntax is one of the main reasons it will never take off, because most programmers have such preferences. The Rust designers may not care: they may have chosen the syntax that best suits their particular audience, just like Haskell, and they don't want it to become more popular. But its syntax will limit it.
Re: Some questions on latest work
On Wednesday, 27 April 2016 at 20:30:56 UTC, Israel wrote: Lol, i hope youre being paid and not doing it for free. Don't feed the evil.
Re: Some questions on latest work
On Tuesday, 26 April 2016 at 01:04:21 UTC, Bill Hicks wrote: On Monday, 25 April 2016 at 21:20:04 UTC, Bienlein wrote: [...] To be frank, if you are using D for anything more than a throwaway hobby project, I have to tell you, D is a failed language, so stop wasting your time. The people who think that one day D is going to replace or threaten C++, or for that matter any other programming language, are delusional. No offense to all those who have spent great amount of time contributing to D, but people need to accept reality. [...] Lol, i hope youre being paid and not doing it for free.
Re: Some questions on latest work
On Tuesday, 26 April 2016 at 18:16:42 UTC, Joakim wrote: He gave very specific criticism, along with a code sample, then made a prediction, followed by suggesting another competing language that might do better. None of that is the usual content-free fanboy "bashing." There is nothing wrong with occasional criticism of the competition, as long as we don't overdo it, either in frequency or by exaggerating. No, judging a language by the appearance of its syntax *is* fanboy bashing. BTW, some interesting points about Swift made by a Rust designer http://graydon2.dreamwidth.org/5785.html.
Re: Some questions on latest work
On Wednesday, 27 April 2016 at 17:57:55 UTC, Bill Hicks wrote: If I get up on a stage with a grin splitting my face and talk about how great D is, I'm considered a hero. But if I criticize D for it's flaws, then I'm a troll or someone who is just ranting. Anybody has the right to criticize D, just as people have the right to praise it. If D is part of your identity to the point where you can't stand hearing people criticize it and then get offended, then you have issues. Grow up. If you want to be taken seriously then you'll need to furnish us with a real name and stop hiding behind a pseudonym. You've also obviously got plenty of 'issues' that greatly subtract from any useful comment you might otherwise have made, so before investing too much time in unloading here you might care to reflect on the fact that no one can possibly take you seriously.
Re: Some questions on latest work
On Wednesday, 27 April 2016 at 17:57:55 UTC, Bill Hicks wrote: He started it. Grow up. Contradiction?
Re: Some questions on latest work
On Wednesday, 27 April 2016 at 15:14:17 UTC, Steven Schveighoffer wrote: I'm just gonna leave this here. http://techcrunch.com/2014/04/03/tesco-buys-into-ad-tech-as-big-data-division-dunnhumby-buys-sociomantic-for-over-100m/ -Steve And a Big Mac is a healthy alternative to unprocessed organic food because McDonald's has made billions in profit.
Re: Some questions on latest work
On Wednesday, 27 April 2016 at 16:45:44 UTC, Bienlein wrote: On Tuesday, 26 April 2016 at 21:49:33 UTC, Bill Hicks wrote: Quitting a well paying job at Facebook to peruse a hobby (...) This is why I thought that those issues with the GC and things like RefCounted could have been fixed meanwhile. I would like to encourage the D people to put priority on fixing everything that is vital for surprise-free development in D. Because those surprises seem to me really being what drives people away from D, which is a pitty as it is really the best thought out language I have seen so far. For people not being C or C++ developers from ground up fixing those issues that pop up in D here and there themselves is simply too effortful ;-). It's because of the second concept.
Re: Some questions on latest work
On Tuesday, 26 April 2016 at 21:49:33 UTC, Bill Hicks wrote: On Tuesday, 26 April 2016 at 02:33:41 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: That's a pretty awesome rant! Bill, could you please email me your mailing address? I'd be glad to send you a DConf T-shirt. Thanks! -- Andrei Quitting a well paying job at Facebook to peruse a hobby sounds like something a person going through midlife crisis would do. You may keep the T-shirt. I suggest you smoke some DMT (and have a breakthrough), or have a few Ayahuasca sessions. If that doesn't set you off on a path to the greatest positive impact, then nothing ever will. Everything you've desired to achieve with D is a construct of your ego, and nothing more. This is completely over the line. Personal attacks of this nature are absolutely unwarranted and unwelcome here.
Re: Some questions on latest work
On 4/25/16 9:04 PM, Bill Hicks wrote: On Monday, 25 April 2016 at 21:20:04 UTC, Bienlein wrote: Hello, I've been busy with other things for about a year and would like to ask some questions to catch up with latest language/library additions in D. Looking through the change logs simply appeared to be a bit tedious. My questions might look a bit like asking pain point questions on purpose, but it's really only about catching up with the status on some issues: Thanks for any answers. Regards, Bienlein To be frank, if you are using D for anything more than a throwaway hobby project, I have to tell you, D is a failed language, so stop wasting your time. The people who think that one day D is going to replace or threaten C++, or for that matter any other programming language, are delusional. No offense to all those who have spent great amount of time contributing to D, but people need to accept reality. I'm just gonna leave this here. http://techcrunch.com/2014/04/03/tesco-buys-into-ad-tech-as-big-data-division-dunnhumby-buys-sociomantic-for-over-100m/ -Steve
Re: Some questions on latest work
On Tuesday, 26 April 2016 at 01:48:21 UTC, bigsandwich wrote: 1) This rant has nothing to do with OP's questions. It does not help him. I disagree. It does help him. It has the potential to save him time and frustration. One thing that is common among most PL communities is that they do not explicitly and openly communicate design flaws, and every other shortcoming in the language that has the potential to impact the user and their projects, with the outside world. I can understand such a thing from a corporation and their marketing department, whose goal is to make money by manipulating people to buy their stuff, but not from a community of volunteers whose so-called goal is to make life easier for the rest of us. 2) Its a community driven project, and its free. That's a lame excuse that's been used over and over again in FOSS communities, usually by those who have failed or are in the process of failing. It's getting worse as more and more sophisticated idiots put their junk on Github and then make a big announcement on reddit/HN for others to start using their greatest inventions. If you would rather use C++ or Rust, you know where to find them. That's a kind of response one gets from Amerikans everytime someone criticizes the government, the educations system, the financial and the banking system, etc. "If you don't like it, get the f**k out; this is 'Merica, the greatest country in the world on God's greenest earth." The only people who think Amerika is great are the brain-dead and brainwashed Amerikans themselves. So if you want people to use other languages, then stop elevating D to such high places where it doesn't belong. On DConf, the title of Andrei's next talk should be "D's flaws and why you shouldn't use it." And maybe Walter could talk about how "In 15 years Perl6 introduced more innovations than D in 20". Think about it, D is refurbished C++, done by those with zero experience designing a successful programming language. And what is C++? Possibly one of the worst programming languages in the world. That says something.
Re: Some questions on latest work
On Tuesday, 26 April 2016 at 02:33:41 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: That's a pretty awesome rant! Bill, could you please email me your mailing address? I'd be glad to send you a DConf T-shirt. Thanks! -- Andrei Quitting a well paying job at Facebook to peruse a hobby sounds like something a person going through midlife crisis would do. You may keep the T-shirt. I suggest you smoke some DMT (and have a breakthrough), or have a few Ayahuasca sessions. If that doesn't set you off on a path to the greatest positive impact, then nothing ever will. Everything you've desired to achieve with D is a construct of your ego, and nothing more.
Re: Some questions on latest work
On Tuesday, 26 April 2016 at 18:16:42 UTC, Joakim wrote: On Tuesday, 26 April 2016 at 13:55:23 UTC, ag0aep6g wrote: Please don't bash on other languages, especially when they're perceived as competition. It reflects badly on the D community. He gave very specific criticism, along with a code sample, then made a prediction, followed by suggesting another competing language that might do better. To be honest when I looked at the code I thought it was really hard to read and it was C++, it wasn't until I noted we were talking about rust that I looked at it again, but it hurts my eyes and my head...
Re: Some questions on latest work
On Tuesday, 26 April 2016 at 19:39:01 UTC, ag0aep6g wrote: None of that is the usual content-free fanboy "bashing." I don't agree. I don't see any content to speak of. You are talking a lot for someone who sees nothing to speak of.
Re: Some questions on latest work
On 26.04.2016 20:16, Joakim wrote: He gave very specific criticism, This is not "very specific criticism": "Are you joking? When I am reading it's code my eyes begin to bleed. It's syntax is terrible. [...] Do you really think that modern language should like this?" along with a code sample, He gave a code sample, yes. He didn't point out what he dislikes about it. He didn't contrast it with another language. then made a prediction, You skipped the part where he puts puts down Rust "fan boys", saying they don't even understand Rust code. His "prediction" is the death of Rust. In my opinion, calling death upon competing projects is bad form. [...] None of that is the usual content-free fanboy "bashing." I don't agree. I don't see any content to speak of.
Re: Some questions on latest work
On Tuesday, 26 April 2016 at 13:55:23 UTC, ag0aep6g wrote: On 26.04.2016 10:20, Suliman wrote: Do you really think that modern language should like this? I talked with a lot of rust fun-boys. Most of them do not understand do not understand the code of their favourite language. Rust will die when Mozilla will move to WebKit. I much more believe in Swift success, that that Rust have any future. Please don't bash on other languages, especially when they're perceived as competition. It reflects badly on the D community. He gave very specific criticism, along with a code sample, then made a prediction, followed by suggesting another competing language that might do better. None of that is the usual content-free fanboy "bashing." There is nothing wrong with occasional criticism of the competition, as long as we don't overdo it, either in frequency or by exaggerating.
Re: Some questions on latest work
On 26.04.2016 10:20, Suliman wrote: Do you really think that modern language should like this? I talked with a lot of rust fun-boys. Most of them do not understand do not understand the code of their favourite language. Rust will die when Mozilla will move to WebKit. I much more believe in Swift success, that that Rust have any future. Please don't bash on other languages, especially when they're perceived as competition. It reflects badly on the D community.
Re: Some questions on latest work
On Tuesday, 26 April 2016 at 04:37:03 UTC, deadalnix wrote: On 32 bits, nothing fundamental changed, but the compiler got a bit smarter about alocating with the no scan flag, so that's better. Indeed, though any large array is liable to be pinned by a false pointer on 32 bit, even with no_scan. I actually recommend malloc/free large arrays with easy lifetimes on 32 bit just to avoid those accidental leaks. 64 bit is fine though. I don't know for that one, but if that doesn't work with classes, this is indeed a problem worth solving. I think it kinda works now but not very well because the ref countedness gets lost in inheritance. If it implements two interfaces for example, it cannot properly express that implicit conversion. Usable though AFAIK, just clunky.
Re: Some questions on latest work
On Tuesday, 26 April 2016 at 12:19:40 UTC, Bienlein wrote: Hi deadalnix, thanks for taking the time to answer my questions. The issue with RefCounted and classes appears to be fixed. I found this: http://wiki.dlang.org/DIP74. I also found evidence on the Internet that the GC leaking memory is only an issue with 32 bit machines. Looks like I could have just googled those things. Didn't expect things to be that easy. Anyway, thanks for answering. Beware that what you found is but an Improvement Proposal, it hasn't been accepted in its current state yet and it hasn't been implemented either.
Re: Some questions on latest work
Hi deadalnix, thanks for taking the time to answer my questions. The issue with RefCounted and classes appears to be fixed. I found this: http://wiki.dlang.org/DIP74. I also found evidence on the Internet that the GC leaking memory is only an issue with 32 bit machines. Looks like I could have just googled those things. Didn't expect things to be that easy. Anyway, thanks for answering. With regard to Rust I think it is a very well thought out language also with an ecosystem that is well thought out (e.g. crates, module system, and other things). But it is for pure systems programming. I will not enter this area any more in this life, but do my stuff in Java and have some performance critical parts in C++. For that purpose modelling power still matters and I find Rust falls short in this area (which is probably fine for a pure systems language) whereas C++ and D are very well equipped for this. Cheers, Bienlein
Re: Some questions on latest work
On Tuesday, 26 April 2016 at 01:04:21 UTC, Bill Hicks wrote:
If you are running away from C++, Rust should be your first
choice as a systems programming language.
Are you joking? When I am reading it's code my eyes begin to
bleed. It's syntax is terrible.
Look at it:
enum Edge {
Edge(Option),
Nothing
}
impl fmt::Display for Edge {
fn fmt(, f: fmt::Formatter) -> fmt::Result {
write!(f, "{}", match self {
::Edge(_)=> "E",
::Nothing=> "-",
})
}
}
impl fmt::Display for Edge {
fn fmt(, f: fmt::Formatter) -> fmt::Result {
write!(f, "{}({})", match self {
::Edge(_)=> "E",
::VirtualEdge(_) => "e",
::Nothing=> "-",
}, match self {
::Edge(Some(v))=> v,
::VirtualEdge(Some(v)) => v,
_ => "-"
})
}
}
Do you really think that modern language should like this?
I talked with a lot of rust fun-boys. Most of them do not
understand do not understand the code of their favourite language.
Rust will die when Mozilla will move to WebKit. I much more
believe in Swift success, that that Rust have any future.
Re: Some questions on latest work
Ok, let's get out of this stupid troll and have some actual answers On Monday, 25 April 2016 at 21:20:04 UTC, Bienlein wrote: Hello, I've been busy with other things for about a year and would like to ask some questions to catch up with latest language/library additions in D. Looking through the change logs simply appeared to be a bit tedious. My questions might look a bit like asking pain point questions on purpose, but it's really only about catching up with the status on some issues: * There was a problem with the GC leaking memory in some situations. Is this still the case? As far as I know, this is not an issue on 64bits. On 32 bits, nothing fundamental changed, but the compiler got a bit smarter about alocating with the no scan flag, so that's better. * There was some talk about changing the standard library in a way that it can be used with the GC and without. My question is what the current status is concerning this topic. Most of phobos is usable without a GC now, and it is getting better with every releases. * RefCounted only used to work with structs. It would be useful if it worked with classes as well. Is it being considered to work on this? I don't know for that one, but if that doesn't work with classes, this is indeed a problem worth solving.
Re: Some questions on latest work
On Tuesday, 26 April 2016 at 01:04:21 UTC, Bill Hicks wrote: On Monday, 25 April 2016 at 21:20:04 UTC, Bienlein wrote: [...] To be frank, if you are using D for anything more than a throwaway hobby project, I have to tell you, D is a failed language, so stop wasting your time. The people who think that one day D is going to replace or threaten C++, or for that matter any other programming language, are delusional. No offense to all those who have spent great amount of time contributing to D, but people need to accept reality. [...] I cannot believe what I just read ... Anyhow have fun!
Re: Some questions on latest work
On 04/25/2016 09:04 PM, Bill Hicks wrote: On Monday, 25 April 2016 at 21:20:04 UTC, Bienlein wrote: Hello, I've been busy with other things for about a year and would like to ask some questions to catch up with latest language/library additions in D. Looking through the change logs simply appeared to be a bit tedious. My questions might look a bit like asking pain point questions on purpose, but it's really only about catching up with the status on some issues: Thanks for any answers. Regards, Bienlein To be frank, if you are using D for anything more than a throwaway hobby project, I have to tell you, D is a failed language, so stop wasting your time. The people who think that one day D is going to replace or threaten C++, or for that matter any other programming language, are delusional. No offense to all those who have spent great amount of time contributing to D, but people need to accept reality. Five years ago Rust was not even a blip on the radar; however, over the years it has gained steady momentum. It has a larger and ever-growing users and contributors, as well as many PL researchers that will ensure the language is future-proof for the next 10-20 years and beyond. If you are running away from C++, Rust should be your first choice as a systems programming language. And with all the 'improvements' that C++ has received, and will receive, there is really not much room left for D. D also has many flaws, and they don't know how to fix them or won't, specially not without breaking backward compatibility. If you have a GC that is not optional, then you don't have a systems programming language. They finally recognized that, and decided to remove all GC from Phobos so that they case say "see, no GC." Even the basic containers that are available in C++ are missing in Phobos. Why? Because of allocators, which are in experimental stage. How many years did that take? Over five years. Good luck implementing some fancy container and hope you won't have to rewrite it again in the future. Nowadays they're spending time implementing stupid features that nobody cares about or needs. And why DMD still uses its own back-end and not GCC or LLVM is beyond me. I guess you look really good on your resume for reinventing such a big wheel, but it's a foolish and arrogant mistake that has not benefited D. And the idea of a foundation was proposed many years ago, but I suppose back then people were fantasizing about the day that Facebook would poor millions of dollars into D, but that never happened. And Facebook's decision to no longer host DConf was a heavy blow. The list goes on and on and one... That's a pretty awesome rant! Bill, could you please email me your mailing address? I'd be glad to send you a DConf T-shirt. Thanks! -- Andrei
Re: Some questions on latest work
On Tuesday, 26 April 2016 at 01:04:21 UTC, Bill Hicks wrote: On Monday, 25 April 2016 at 21:20:04 UTC, Bienlein wrote: [...] To be frank, if you are using D for anything more than a throwaway hobby project, I have to tell you, D is a failed language, so stop wasting your time. The people who think that one day D is going to replace or threaten C++, or for that matter any other programming language, are delusional. No offense to all those who have spent great amount of time contributing to D, but people need to accept reality. [...] 1) This rant has nothing to do with OP's questions. It does not help him. 2) I'm not sure what you are so angry about. D seems to be making slow but steady progress. Its a community driven project, and its free. If you would rather use C++ or Rust, you know where to find them.
Re: Some questions on latest work
On Monday, 25 April 2016 at 21:20:04 UTC, Bienlein wrote: Hello, I've been busy with other things for about a year and would like to ask some questions to catch up with latest language/library additions in D. Looking through the change logs simply appeared to be a bit tedious. My questions might look a bit like asking pain point questions on purpose, but it's really only about catching up with the status on some issues: Thanks for any answers. Regards, Bienlein To be frank, if you are using D for anything more than a throwaway hobby project, I have to tell you, D is a failed language, so stop wasting your time. The people who think that one day D is going to replace or threaten C++, or for that matter any other programming language, are delusional. No offense to all those who have spent great amount of time contributing to D, but people need to accept reality. Five years ago Rust was not even a blip on the radar; however, over the years it has gained steady momentum. It has a larger and ever-growing users and contributors, as well as many PL researchers that will ensure the language is future-proof for the next 10-20 years and beyond. If you are running away from C++, Rust should be your first choice as a systems programming language. And with all the 'improvements' that C++ has received, and will receive, there is really not much room left for D. D also has many flaws, and they don't know how to fix them or won't, specially not without breaking backward compatibility. If you have a GC that is not optional, then you don't have a systems programming language. They finally recognized that, and decided to remove all GC from Phobos so that they case say "see, no GC." Even the basic containers that are available in C++ are missing in Phobos. Why? Because of allocators, which are in experimental stage. How many years did that take? Over five years. Good luck implementing some fancy container and hope you won't have to rewrite it again in the future. Nowadays they're spending time implementing stupid features that nobody cares about or needs. And why DMD still uses its own back-end and not GCC or LLVM is beyond me. I guess you look really good on your resume for reinventing such a big wheel, but it's a foolish and arrogant mistake that has not benefited D. And the idea of a foundation was proposed many years ago, but I suppose back then people were fantasizing about the day that Facebook would poor millions of dollars into D, but that never happened. And Facebook's decision to no longer host DConf was a heavy blow. The list goes on and on and one...
Some questions on latest work
Hello, I've been busy with other things for about a year and would like to ask some questions to catch up with latest language/library additions in D. Looking through the change logs simply appeared to be a bit tedious. My questions might look a bit like asking pain point questions on purpose, but it's really only about catching up with the status on some issues: * There was a problem with the GC leaking memory in some situations. Is this still the case? * There was some talk about changing the standard library in a way that it can be used with the GC and without. My question is what the current status is concerning this topic. * RefCounted only used to work with structs. It would be useful if it worked with classes as well. Is it being considered to work on this? Thanks for any answers. Regards, Bienlein
