Re: Support alias this in module scope?

[Nick Sabalausky (Abscissa) via Digitalmars-d]

On 05/24/2018 03:07 AM, Jonathan M Davis wrote:


It's true. There's at least one post where he posted as WalterBright (note
the complete lack of spaces) and tried to make it look like Walter had
decided that having private be restricted to the module rather than the
class was a mistake. And if the lack of space in the name and the content
weren't enough to figure out that it wasn't Walter, the headers made it
clear that the post had come from the web forum, and AFAIK, Walter always
posts using NNTP. This fellow has impersonated at least half a dozen people
in the last couple of days.


The fake posts are also pretty easy to spot by their writing...*ahem* 
"style". The people being impersonated don't normally write in a way 
that sounds like barely-coherent trolling.

Re: Support alias this in module scope?

[Rubn via Digitalmars-d]

On Wednesday, 23 May 2018 at 03:44:36 UTC, Manu wrote:
Okay, I'm still really angry about the stupid stupid decision 
to make C++ namespaces into scopes rather than just a detail 
used for mangling, with absolutely no consultation of the 
community, in particular the target audience, who are 
unanimously annoyed as far as I can tell...


I'm unsatisfied by the work-arounds to make the situation 
not-suck, but I think I have an idea that would pacify me...


If we can use `alias this` to mirror an entire C++ namespace 
into the location we want (ie, the scope immediately outside 
the C++ namespace!!), then one sanitary line would make the 
problem quite more tolerable:


extern(C++, FuckOff)
{
  void bah();
  void humbug();
}
alias this FuckOff;  // <-- symbols are now aliased where they 
should

have been all along



(count the seconds until the reply that says to use reflection 
to scan the scope, and use a mixin to... blah blah)


Would there be any use for this other than working around this 
problem with extern(C++) ?


If not then perhaps changing the behavior to be what is desired 
would be better. If we change extern(C++, Namespace) to work only 
for mangling and not as a struct, then existing code would only 
need to create a new module with "Namespace" and statically 
import it to work with existing code. I'd rather the actual 
problem be fixed than having some work around for it. We don't 
even have multiple "alias this" in structs. If a new feature were 
to be added I'd rather it'd be that, which was "approved" but has 
yet to be included.

Re: Support alias this in module scope?

[12345swordy via Digitalmars-d]

On Thursday, 24 May 2018 at 07:07:48 UTC, Jonathan M Davis wrote:

On Thursday, May 24, 2018 06:42:21 Dukc via Digitalmars-d wrote:

On Wednesday, 23 May 2018 at 12:32:50 UTC, Steven Schveighoffer

wrote:
> and in others he has impersonated WalterBright as well.
>
> -Steve

Sorry forgot that part in my last post. If that's true, it 
makes it VERY serious.


It's true. There's at least one post where he posted as 
WalterBright (note the complete lack of spaces) and tried to 
make it look like Walter had decided that having private be 
restricted to the module rather than the class was a mistake. 
And if the lack of space in the name and the content weren't 
enough to figure out that it wasn't Walter, the headers made it 
clear that the post had come from the web forum, and AFAIK, 
Walter always posts using NNTP. This fellow has impersonated at 
least half a dozen people in the last couple of days.


- Jonathan M Davis


That guy show so much salt by doing that.

Re: Support alias this in module scope?

[biocyberman via Digitalmars-d]

On Wednesday, 23 May 2018 at 16:28:22 UTC, H. S. Teoh wrote:
On Wed, May 23, 2018 at 02:34:07PM +, 12345swordy via 
Digitalmars-d wrote: [...]
Can you please support actual web forms to prevent this 
impersonation?


Unfortunately, "actual" web forums are just as prone to 
impersonation to someone determined enough.



T


That's rather an extreme, not the norm. If something take 3 
seconds to do, they may do it; something take more than a minute 
they may not do it. And it is really easy to impersonate on  the 
current "forum" platform.


Anyway, discourse support both worlds of forum and mailing list: 
https://github.com/discourse/discourse

Re: Support alias this in module scope?

[rikki cattermole via Digitalmars-d]

On 24/05/2018 7:12 PM, Dukc wrote:

On Thursday, 24 May 2018 at 07:07:48 UTC, Jonathan M Davis wrote:


It's true.


Should somebody of us make an Announce theard out of this?


No, they are not worth any more of anyone's time.

Re: Support alias this in module scope?

[Dukc via Digitalmars-d]

On Thursday, 24 May 2018 at 07:07:48 UTC, Jonathan M Davis wrote:


It's true.


Should somebody of us make an Announce theard out of this?

Re: Support alias this in module scope?

[Jonathan M Davis via Digitalmars-d]

On Thursday, May 24, 2018 06:42:21 Dukc via Digitalmars-d wrote:
> On Wednesday, 23 May 2018 at 12:32:50 UTC, Steven Schveighoffer
>
> wrote:
> > and in others he has impersonated WalterBright as well.
> >
> > -Steve
>
> Sorry forgot that part in my last post. If that's true, it makes
> it VERY serious.

It's true. There's at least one post where he posted as WalterBright (note
the complete lack of spaces) and tried to make it look like Walter had
decided that having private be restricted to the module rather than the
class was a mistake. And if the lack of space in the name and the content
weren't enough to figure out that it wasn't Walter, the headers made it
clear that the post had come from the web forum, and AFAIK, Walter always
posts using NNTP. This fellow has impersonated at least half a dozen people
in the last couple of days.

- Jonathan M Davis

Re: Support alias this in module scope?

[Dukc via Digitalmars-d]

On Wednesday, 23 May 2018 at 12:32:50 UTC, Steven Schveighoffer 
wrote:


and in others he has impersonated WalterBright as well.

-Steve


Sorry forgot that part in my last post. If that's true, it makes 
it VERY serious.

Re: Support alias this in module scope?

[Dukc via Digitalmars-d]

On Wednesday, 23 May 2018 at 03:44:36 UTC, Manu wrote:

alias this ¤%[  // <-- symbols are now aliased where they


I think it could be

with (¤%[):

also.

Re: Support alias this in module scope?

[H. S. Teoh via Digitalmars-d]

On Wed, May 23, 2018 at 10:28:33AM -0700, Manu via Digitalmars-d wrote:
> On 23 May 2018 at 10:12, 12345swordy via Digitalmars-d
>  wrote:
[...]
> > You can make an argument against security using that logic.
> > Regardless there are many things that a web forum can do that a
> > mailing list can't do.
> 
> One thing a web forum *can't* do, is enjoy my participation. ;)
> If I have to load a webpage and sign in... I'm out!

While I wouldn't say that I'd be out too, my participation will
certainly be much less.  But it seems we're in the minority here...


T

-- 
The right half of the brain controls the left half of the body. This means that 
only left-handed people are in their right mind. -- Manoj Srivastava

Re: Support alias this in module scope?

[Manu via Digitalmars-d]

On 23 May 2018 at 10:12, 12345swordy via Digitalmars-d
 wrote:
> On Wednesday, 23 May 2018 at 16:28:22 UTC, H. S. Teoh wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, May 23, 2018 at 02:34:07PM +, 12345swordy via Digitalmars-d
>> wrote: [...]
>>>
>>> Can you please support actual web forms to prevent this impersonation?
>>
>>
>> Unfortunately, "actual" web forums are just as prone to impersonation to
>> someone determined enough.
>>
>>
>> T
>
>
> You can make an argument against security using that logic. Regardless there
> are many things that a web forum can do that a mailing list can't do.

One thing a web forum *can't* do, is enjoy my participation. ;)
If I have to load a webpage and sign in... I'm out!

Re: Support alias this in module scope?

[12345swordy via Digitalmars-d]

On Wednesday, 23 May 2018 at 16:28:22 UTC, H. S. Teoh wrote:
On Wed, May 23, 2018 at 02:34:07PM +, 12345swordy via 
Digitalmars-d wrote: [...]
Can you please support actual web forms to prevent this 
impersonation?


Unfortunately, "actual" web forums are just as prone to 
impersonation to someone determined enough.



T


You can make an argument against security using that logic. 
Regardless there are many things that a web forum can do that a 
mailing list can't do.

Re: Support alias this in module scope?

[H. S. Teoh via Digitalmars-d]

On Wed, May 23, 2018 at 02:34:07PM +, 12345swordy via Digitalmars-d wrote:
[...]
> Can you please support actual web forms to prevent this impersonation?

Unfortunately, "actual" web forums are just as prone to impersonation to
someone determined enough.


T

-- 
Error: Keyboard not attached. Press F1 to continue. -- Yoon Ha Lee, CONLANG

Re: Support alias this in module scope?

[Jonathan Marler via Digitalmars-d]

On Wednesday, 23 May 2018 at 03:44:36 UTC, Manu wrote:
If we can use `alias this` to mirror an entire C++ namespace 
into the location we want (ie, the scope immediately outside 
the C++ namespace!!), then one sanitary line would make the 
problem quite more tolerable:


extern(C++, FuckOff)
{
  void bah();
  void humbug();
}
alias this FuckOff;  // <-- symbols are now aliased where they 
should

have been all along



(count the seconds until the reply that says to use reflection 
to scan the scope, and use a mixin to... blah blah)


Had the same idea about a year ago :)

https://forum.dlang.org/post/bmawbtdaqdngoiqfo...@forum.dlang.org

Re: Support alias this in module scope?

[12345swordy via Digitalmars-d]

On Wednesday, 23 May 2018 at 12:32:50 UTC, Steven Schveighoffer 
wrote:

On 5/23/18 1:49 AM, Manu wrote:

On 22 May 2018 at 22:06, VectorThis via Digitalmars-d
 wrote:

On Wednesday, 23 May 2018 at 04:38:48 UTC, Manu wrote:



Sure he does! It's a fair call.



Hey, it could be worse, you could have wrote this below 
instead..

(then imagine the chaos that would unfold on the D forums)

extern(C++, SomethingHere)
{
   void penetration();
   void private();
}


Nar, I didn't mean to start a thing...



I'm just going to warn everyone here that one person is posting 
as KingJoffrey, VectorThis, Grady Booch, FuckYou, and in this 
thread he is impersonating 12345swordy, and in others he has 
impersonated WalterBright as well.


-Steve
No kidding, as I did not write that statement. Can you please 
support actual web forms to prevent this impersonation?

Re: Support alias this in module scope?

[Atila Neves via Digitalmars-d]

On Wednesday, 23 May 2018 at 03:44:36 UTC, Manu wrote:
Okay, I'm still really angry about the stupid stupid decision 
to make C++ namespaces into scopes rather than just a detail 
used for mangling, with absolutely no consultation of the 
community, in particular the target audience, who are 
unanimously annoyed as far as I can tell...


+1

I see no reason for it. It's just mangling after all.

Atila

Re: Support alias this in module scope?

[Steven Schveighoffer via Digitalmars-d]

On Wednesday, 23 May 2018 at 12:32:50 UTC, Steven Schveighoffer 
wrote:


I'm just going to warn everyone here that one person is posting 
as KingJoffrey, VectorThis, Grady Booch, FuckYou, and in this 
thread he is impersonating 12345swordy, and in others he has 
impersonated WalterBright as well.


-Steve


one person?

Re: Support alias this in module scope?

[Steven Schveighoffer via Digitalmars-d]

On 5/23/18 1:49 AM, Manu wrote:

On 22 May 2018 at 22:06, VectorThis via Digitalmars-d
 wrote:

On Wednesday, 23 May 2018 at 04:38:48 UTC, Manu wrote:



Sure he does! It's a fair call.



Hey, it could be worse, you could have wrote this below instead..
(then imagine the chaos that would unfold on the D forums)

extern(C++, SomethingHere)
{
   void penetration();
   void private();
}


Nar, I didn't mean to start a thing...



I'm just going to warn everyone here that one person is posting as 
KingJoffrey, VectorThis, Grady Booch, FuckYou, and in this thread he is 
impersonating 12345swordy, and in others he has impersonated 
WalterBright as well.


-Steve

Re: Support alias this in module scope?

[Manu via Digitalmars-d]

On 22 May 2018 at 22:06, VectorThis via Digitalmars-d
 wrote:
> On Wednesday, 23 May 2018 at 04:38:48 UTC, Manu wrote:
>>
>>
>> Sure he does! It's a fair call.
>
>
> Hey, it could be worse, you could have wrote this below instead..
> (then imagine the chaos that would unfold on the D forums)
>
> extern(C++, SomethingHere)
> {
>   void penetration();
>   void private();
> }

Nar, I didn't mean to start a thing...

Re: Support alias this in module scope?

[VectorThis via Digitalmars-d]

On Wednesday, 23 May 2018 at 04:38:48 UTC, Manu wrote:


Sure he does! It's a fair call.


Hey, it could be worse, you could have wrote this below instead..
(then imagine the chaos that would unfold on the D forums)

extern(C++, SomethingHere)
{
  void penetration();
  void private();
}

Re: Support alias this in module scope?

[Manu via Digitalmars-d]

On 22 May 2018 at 21:31, rikki cattermole via Digitalmars-d
 wrote:
> On 23/05/2018 4:29 PM, 12345swordy wrote:
>>
>> On Wednesday, 23 May 2018 at 03:44:36 UTC, Manu wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> extern(C++, FuckOff)
>>> {
>>>   void bah();
>>>   void humbug();
>>> }
>>> alias this FuckOff;  // <-- symbols are now aliased where they should
>>> have been all along
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Knock it off with sex talk here.
>
>
> This is Manu and he is highly annoyed, you don't need to tell him off.

Sure he does! It's a fair call.

Re: Support alias this in module scope?

[rikki cattermole via Digitalmars-d]

On 23/05/2018 4:29 PM, 12345swordy wrote:

On Wednesday, 23 May 2018 at 03:44:36 UTC, Manu wrote:


extern(C++, FuckOff)
{
  void bah();
  void humbug();
}
alias this FuckOff;  // <-- symbols are now aliased where they should
have been all along




Knock it off with sex talk here.


This is Manu and he is highly annoyed, you don't need to tell him off.

Re: Support alias this in module scope?

[12345swordy via Digitalmars-d]

On Wednesday, 23 May 2018 at 03:44:36 UTC, Manu wrote:


extern(C++, FuckOff)
{
  void bah();
  void humbug();
}
alias this FuckOff;  // <-- symbols are now aliased where they 
should

have been all along




Knock it off with sex talk here.

Re: Support alias this in module scope?

[Manu via Digitalmars-d]

On 22 May 2018 at 20:53, Stefan Koch via Digitalmars-d
 wrote:
> On Wednesday, 23 May 2018 at 03:44:36 UTC, Manu wrote:
>>
>> Okay, I'm still really angry about the stupid stupid decision to make C++
>> namespaces into scopes rather than just a detail used for mangling, with
>> absolutely no consultation of the community, in particular the target
>> audience, who are unanimously annoyed as far as I can tell...
>>
>> I'm unsatisfied by the work-arounds to make the situation not-suck, but I
>> think I have an idea that would pacify me...
>>
>> If we can use `alias this` to mirror an entire C++ namespace into the
>> location we want (ie, the scope immediately outside the C++ namespace!!),
>> then one sanitary line would make the problem quite more tolerable:
>>
>> extern(C++, FuckOff)
>> {
>>   void bah();
>>   void humbug();
>> }
>> alias this FuckOff;  // <-- symbols are now aliased where they should
>> have been all along
>>
>>
>>
>> (count the seconds until the reply that says to use reflection to scan the
>> scope, and use a mixin to... blah blah)
>
>
> After thinking about it for a few minutes I do believe this is a reasonable
> approach.
> I am in favor of module-level alias this.
>
> The reason name-spaces create a scope is because they are essentially
> implemented via structs.

I know, but it shouldn't be... they should just be normal extern(C++)
functions with an extra detail in the attribute for mangling.

Re: Support alias this in module scope?

[Stefan Koch via Digitalmars-d]

On Wednesday, 23 May 2018 at 03:44:36 UTC, Manu wrote:
Okay, I'm still really angry about the stupid stupid decision 
to make C++ namespaces into scopes rather than just a detail 
used for mangling, with absolutely no consultation of the 
community, in particular the target audience, who are 
unanimously annoyed as far as I can tell...


I'm unsatisfied by the work-arounds to make the situation 
not-suck, but I think I have an idea that would pacify me...


If we can use `alias this` to mirror an entire C++ namespace 
into the location we want (ie, the scope immediately outside 
the C++ namespace!!), then one sanitary line would make the 
problem quite more tolerable:


extern(C++, FuckOff)
{
  void bah();
  void humbug();
}
alias this FuckOff;  // <-- symbols are now aliased where they 
should

have been all along



(count the seconds until the reply that says to use reflection 
to scan the scope, and use a mixin to... blah blah)


After thinking about it for a few minutes I do believe this is a 
reasonable approach.

I am in favor of module-level alias this.

The reason name-spaces create a scope is because they are 
essentially implemented via structs.

Support alias this in module scope?

[Manu via Digitalmars-d]

Okay, I'm still really angry about the stupid stupid decision to make
C++ namespaces into scopes rather than just a detail used for
mangling, with absolutely no consultation of the community, in
particular the target audience, who are unanimously annoyed as far as
I can tell...

I'm unsatisfied by the work-arounds to make the situation not-suck,
but I think I have an idea that would pacify me...

If we can use `alias this` to mirror an entire C++ namespace into the
location we want (ie, the scope immediately outside the C++
namespace!!), then one sanitary line would make the problem quite more
tolerable:

extern(C++, FuckOff)
{
  void bah();
  void humbug();
}
alias this FuckOff;  // <-- symbols are now aliased where they should
have been all along



(count the seconds until the reply that says to use reflection to scan
the scope, and use a mixin to... blah blah)