Re: Usability of D for Visually Impaired Users
On 09/06/2016 08:47 PM, Sai wrote: 1. The "Jump to" section at the top lists all the items available in that module nicely, but the layout could be improved if it were listed as a bunch of columns instead of one giant list with flow layout. That's a solid idea. Unfortunately, variance in name length is large. Might be hard to find a good column width. But it's definitely worth exploring. Even better if they are listed as the "cheat sheet" available in algorithm module (which is lovely BTW). Can this cheat sheet be automated for all modules? The newer, DDOX-based version of the documentation has generated tables like that. You can find those docs here: http://dlang.org/library-prerelease/index.html It's supposed to become the main/default form of documentation soonishly. One thing we have to figure out is how to consolidate the hand-written cheat sheets with the generated ones. For example, std.algorithm modules currently have both. That's confusing for the reader. 2. I know red is the color of Mars, is there any way to change the theme to blue or something soft? Principally, we could offer an alternative stylesheet with another color. That's going to be forgotten during maintenance, though, especially if the demand for it is low. Since we can download the documentation, is there an easy way to do it myself maybe? You can of course edit the stylesheet. In the zip, that's dmd2/html/d/css/style.css. The color codes for the different reds are mentioned in a comment at the top. I hope they're up to date. A couple search/replace operations should take care of most of it. The logo is colored independently. It's a relatively simple SVG file. Just edit the "background" color in dmd2/html/d/images/dlogo.svg. I'm not sure if this qualifies as "easy".
Re: Usability of D for Visually Impaired Users
I have few suggestions, especially for people like me with migraine, it could be a bit easy eyes and overall less stressful. 1. The "Jump to" section at the top lists all the items available in that module nicely, but the layout could be improved if it were listed as a bunch of columns instead of one giant list with flow layout. Even better if they are listed as the "cheat sheet" available in algorithm module (which is lovely BTW). Can this cheat sheet be automated for all modules? 2. I know red is the color of Mars, is there any way to change the theme to blue or something soft? Since we can download the documentation, is there an easy way to do it myself maybe? PS: As many people have already said, documentation has improved very very much recently. Thank you for all the people working on it.
Re: Usability of D for Visually Impaired Users
On Monday, 5 September 2016 at 20:59:46 UTC, Walter Bright wrote: On 9/5/2016 2:14 AM, Chris wrote: A blind user I worked with used D for a term paper and he could find his way around on dlang.org. So it seems to be pretty ok already. We should only be careful with new stuff like language tours and tutorials. This is good to hear. But with constant changes to dlang.org, it can be very easy to slip away from that, especially with all the pressure to "modernize" the look-and-feel with crap. We'll need constant vigilance! I agree, the webpage should comply with accessibility rules consistently and not fall foul of flashy design when adding to the homepage. As regards the zoom: most browsers handle the zoom very well (Ctrl+'+') these days. Visually impaired users often use the zoom that comes with the screen reading software or the inbuilt, OS-specific zoom (cf. Apple's Voice Over, Windows also a zoom as far as I know).
Re: Usability of D for Visually Impaired Users
On 9/5/2016 2:52 AM, Chris wrote: Sorry, I sure ain't gonna list all conditions between 20/20 and blind. This is about IT not PC ;) Anyone who can see normally with or without glasses has "normal sight" _in this context_. If you need a 500% zoom to discern letters on the screen, you are visually impaired (but not blind). There are people who use zoom and screen readers at the same time etc. But that's beyond the point we're discussing. True, but too many sites lose their formatting if one increases the font size with the Ctrl-+ command. Us >50 fossils who wear progressive lenses get tired of bobbing heads to read the screen and just boost the font a bit. You can always tell a user interface designed by a youngling :-) This was a few years ago, but Apple's web site technical documentation used to use a tiny grey font on a white background. It was literally painful to read, making me just not want to support OSX.
Re: Usability of D for Visually Impaired Users
On 9/5/2016 8:14 AM, Chris Wright wrote: On Mon, 05 Sep 2016 14:24:37 +0200, ag0aep6g wrote: * We have fallbacks for (I hope) all the JavaScript functionality. Can confirm; dlang.org is one of the few sites that works exactly as expected with NoScript and RequestPolicy etc turned up as high as they'll go. This is awesome - great work!
Re: Usability of D for Visually Impaired Users
On 9/5/2016 2:14 AM, Chris wrote: A blind user I worked with used D for a term paper and he could find his way around on dlang.org. So it seems to be pretty ok already. We should only be careful with new stuff like language tours and tutorials. This is good to hear. But with constant changes to dlang.org, it can be very easy to slip away from that, especially with all the pressure to "modernize" the look-and-feel with crap. We'll need constant vigilance!
Re: Usability of D for Visually Impaired Users
On 9/5/2016 6:09 AM, Chris wrote: I think the above points should do the trick. Probably, but there's nothing like actually testing it.
Re: Usability of D for Visually Impaired Users
On Mon, 05 Sep 2016 14:24:37 +0200, ag0aep6g wrote: > * We have fallbacks for (I hope) all the JavaScript functionality. Can confirm; dlang.org is one of the few sites that works exactly as expected with NoScript and RequestPolicy etc turned up as high as they'll go.
Re: Usability of D for Visually Impaired Users
On Monday, 5 September 2016 at 12:24:37 UTC, ag0aep6g wrote: As I've worked on the website quite a bit, here are some things we're already doing for accessibility: * We use proper markup: headings, lists, etc. * The site adapts to zooming and large font settings, using the same mechanism as for small windows/screens. * We're keeping the traditional underlines on links to help color blind people identify them. Though we did remove the underlines in menus and such. We hope it's obvious that the text can be clicked there. * We have fallbacks for (I hope) all the JavaScript functionality. I think the above points should do the trick.
Re: Usability of D for Visually Impaired Users
On 09/04/2016 10:01 PM, Walter Bright wrote: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12424656 It is our ethical duty to make D and dlang.org usable for visually impaired programmers. If any of you are visually impaired, or have programmer friends/colleagues who are, a review of what we can do to improve would be appreciated. As I've worked on the website quite a bit, here are some things we're already doing for accessibility: * We use proper markup: headings, lists, etc. * The site adapts to zooming and large font settings, using the same mechanism as for small windows/screens. * We're keeping the traditional underlines on links to help color blind people identify them. Though we did remove the underlines in menus and such. We hope it's obvious that the text can be clicked there. * We have fallbacks for (I hope) all the JavaScript functionality. Regarding screen readers, I don't know if anyone has tested the site with a screen reader. I haven't. Overall, we have relatively simple content. So I'd hope that dlang.org is at least usable. Unfortunately, the page with the most eye-candy and dynamic features is the home page. So the first page someone opens is probably the most difficult to navigate with non-visual tools.
Re: Usability of D for Visually Impaired Users
On Monday, 5 September 2016 at 09:34:13 UTC, Kagamin wrote: On Monday, 5 September 2016 at 09:14:12 UTC, Chris wrote: a person with normal sight No love for people between normal and blind? Sorry, I sure ain't gonna list all conditions between 20/20 and blind. This is about IT not PC ;) Anyone who can see normally with or without glasses has "normal sight" _in this context_. If you need a 500% zoom to discern letters on the screen, you are visually impaired (but not blind). There are people who use zoom and screen readers at the same time etc. But that's beyond the point we're discussing.
Re: Usability of D for Visually Impaired Users
On Monday, 5 September 2016 at 09:14:12 UTC, Chris wrote: a person with normal sight No love for people between normal and blind?
Re: Usability of D for Visually Impaired Users
On Monday, 5 September 2016 at 05:20:28 UTC, Walter Bright wrote: On 9/4/2016 5:15 PM, w0rp wrote: A noble goal. The trick is probably all in careful use of markup. alt tags, aria text, tab ordering. You can probably test various pages on the site by listening to the output of screen readers. The thing is, I have no idea how experienced screen reader programmers do things. So we kinda need their help, rather than us naively trying a reader. If I was building a race car, I wouldn't ask a newbie driver to give me feedback on how it handles! I second wOrp. While it is true that a person with normal sight has no way of knowing how screen readers are used (believe me it's pretty impressive), I know from my experience with working with visually impaired people that the best thing is a proper, clean and simple markup and _no_ fancy stuff like Flash, heavy use of JS and the like. Most screen reading software can parse and handle HTML very well. So the first priority is proper markup. Then one can fix the few glitches left with the help of the `aria-label` property. A blind user I worked with used D for a term paper and he could find his way around on dlang.org. So it seems to be pretty ok already. We should only be careful with new stuff like language tours and tutorials. They should all be marked up properly and have no buttons or links that are invisible to screen readers.
Re: Usability of D for Visually Impaired Users
On 05/09/2016 5:20 PM, Walter Bright wrote: On 9/4/2016 5:15 PM, w0rp wrote: A noble goal. The trick is probably all in careful use of markup. alt tags, aria text, tab ordering. You can probably test various pages on the site by listening to the output of screen readers. The thing is, I have no idea how experienced screen reader programmers do things. So we kinda need their help, rather than us naively trying a reader. If I was building a race car, I wouldn't ask a newbie driver to give me feedback on how it handles! w0rp's suggestion is the industry standard. Unless of course you have a few million to throw at this and still not succeed (note I did not say fail).
Re: Usability of D for Visually Impaired Users
On 9/4/2016 5:15 PM, w0rp wrote: A noble goal. The trick is probably all in careful use of markup. alt tags, aria text, tab ordering. You can probably test various pages on the site by listening to the output of screen readers. The thing is, I have no idea how experienced screen reader programmers do things. So we kinda need their help, rather than us naively trying a reader. If I was building a race car, I wouldn't ask a newbie driver to give me feedback on how it handles!
Re: Usability of D for Visually Impaired Users
On Sunday, 4 September 2016 at 20:01:21 UTC, Walter Bright wrote: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12424656 It is our ethical duty to make D and dlang.org usable for visually impaired programmers. If any of you are visually impaired, or have programmer friends/colleagues who are, a review of what we can do to improve would be appreciated. A noble goal. The trick is probably all in careful use of markup. alt tags, aria text, tab ordering. You can probably test various pages on the site by listening to the output of screen readers.
Usability of D for Visually Impaired Users
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12424656 It is our ethical duty to make D and dlang.org usable for visually impaired programmers. If any of you are visually impaired, or have programmer friends/colleagues who are, a review of what we can do to improve would be appreciated.
