Re: [digitalradio] NTS Digital
Also NTS Digital is using the various modes of Pactor, primarily Pactor I and Pactor II Many of the six MBOs in Eastern Area NTS D have the fancy SCS Modems although a few are still restiricted to Pactor I using the old PK-232 MBX... For the most part the MBOs run Classic Winlink (i.e the versions before Winlink 2000) as we prefer to forward via RF as opposed to internet We used to run AMTOR and Clover but gave those modes up...The reason we don't use a mode such as Olivia or MT 63 is because we prefer the error correction of a burst mode such as Pactor... The Digital Relay Stations that connect to our MBOs again are running Pactor but many of them are using Airmail Eastern area NTSD averages typically 10,000 to 12.000 messages a month. 73 Dave WB2FTX Eastern Area Digital Cooridnator- NTS Digital - Original Message - From: Rick W To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, March 05, 2009 10:32 PM Subject: Re: [digitalradio] NTS Digital Hi Dave, I have heard of the use of MT-63 for many years on MARS circuits, but don't think I had heard about the digital SSTV program being used. It makes tremendous sense since they are often involved in sending bulletins to their members. With one to many it is possible to have 100% ARQ with EasyPal although it is after the fact ARQ. A bit cumbersome, but practical for insuring a group receives exactly correct data. Unfortunately U.S. hams can not use mixed phone and text digital in the HF bands unless they are sending fax/image. Since most of the NTS traffic is short text messages, we can not do that in the phone areas, so we have to confine it to the RTTY/data portions. 73, Rick, KV9U David Little wrote: Rick, Army MARS is using MT-63 on mixed mode nets with some regularity. We also use Olivia when conditions warrant the slower speed of transmission. Easypal is also being used for picture transmission, as well as text broadcasts. David KD4NUE -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.8/1986 - Release Date: 03/05/09 19:32:00 No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.8/1986 - Release Date: 03/05/09 19:32:00
Re: [digitalradio] NTS Digital
Don't know where Dave Little is getting his info, but I can tell you that NTS Digital is very active on Pactor I, Pactor II and some Pactor III... I will mainly comment on Eastern Area NTS Digital which I am directly responsible for, but similar activty exists in both Central and Pacific Areas NTS Digital For Eastern Area we typically handle 10,000 to 12,000 messages a month We have 6 24/7 MBO stations, the rest are Digital Relay stations removing and sending NTS via these MBOs... Also liaisions and connections with the Central and Pacific Area MBO hubs. Questions wb2...@optonline.net 73 Dave WB2FTX Eastern Area Digital Coordinator- NTS Digital - Original Message - From: Rick W To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, March 05, 2009 10:32 PM Subject: Re: [digitalradio] NTS Digital Hi Dave, I have heard of the use of MT-63 for many years on MARS circuits, but don't think I had heard about the digital SSTV program being used. It makes tremendous sense since they are often involved in sending bulletins to their members. With one to many it is possible to have 100% ARQ with EasyPal although it is after the fact ARQ. A bit cumbersome, but practical for insuring a group receives exactly correct data. Unfortunately U.S. hams can not use mixed phone and text digital in the HF bands unless they are sending fax/image. Since most of the NTS traffic is short text messages, we can not do that in the phone areas, so we have to confine it to the RTTY/data portions. 73, Rick, KV9U David Little wrote: Rick, Army MARS is using MT-63 on mixed mode nets with some regularity. We also use Olivia when conditions warrant the slower speed of transmission. Easypal is also being used for picture transmission, as well as text broadcasts. David KD4NUE -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.8/1986 - Release Date: 03/05/09 19:32:00 No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.8/1986 - Release Date: 03/05/09 19:32:00
Re: [digitalradio] NTS Digital
As an additional note... Most NTS D is using the various versions of Pactor and have the expensive SCS modems... There are some MBOs still runinng Pactor I with a PK-232 MBX... Most of at least Eastern Area NTSD MBOs are using Classic Winlink (ie. the versions before Winlink 2000) as we feel that RF forwarding of NTS is superior to internet forwarding and not subject to system outages during a disaster Some of the Digital Relay Station are using Pactor with Airmail to post and remove traffic from the MBOs... WE have not played with the typical sound card modes such as Olivia or MT 63, again primarily using Pactor with its error correcting abilities again it you want more info, please contact me wb2...@optonline.net. 73 Dave WB2FTX Eastern Area Digital Coordinator- NTS Digital - Original Message - From: David Little To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, March 05, 2009 10:13 PM Subject: RE: [digitalradio] NTS Digital Rick, Army MARS is using MT-63 on mixed mode nets with some regularity. We also use Olivia when conditions warrant the slower speed of transmission. Easypal is also being used for picture transmission, as well as text broadcasts. David KD4NUE -Original Message- From: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:digitalra...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Rick W Sent: Thursday, March 05, 2009 10:01 PM To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Subject: [digitalradio] NTS Digital Maybe some of you can help me with understanding the current digital state of the art with NTS. Recently, there have been some NTS yahoogroups formed for our region and the sections in that region. There is no digital presence at this time, however, at least one ham I knew in past years (now SK) was involved at some level, perhaps Pactor. At least one of the daytime region voice nets is struggling to survive. I suspect that CW nets are having some similar problems and if not, they surely will have as more CW competent OTs become SK. I don't see anywhere near enough new hams becoming proficient in CW and also having an interest in traffic handling. So I suggested that if there was any interest, maybe we could try using some of the new technologies that have only recently become available to us. That means either using an extremely robust mode such as Olivia which can compete with CW from some of my experiences, or using an ARQ mode with NBEMS or possibly Multipsk's FAE400. Eventually, it is possible that WINMOR may become available for peer to peer but that is likely far into the future from what they are saying. Are any of the NTS digital stations using sound card modes or are they staying with the NTS/D (actually the old Winlink system) and Pactor? Any recommendations, or even better, any actual experiences with getting area, region, or even section nets using some of the newer digital sound card modes? 73, Rick, KV9U -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.8/1986 - Release Date: 03/05/09 19:32:00 No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.8/1986 - Release Date: 03/05/09 19:32:00
Re: [digitalradio] NTS Digital
Don't know where Dave Little is getting his info, but I can tell you that NTS Digital is very active on Pactor I, Pactor II and some Pactor III... I will mainly comment on Eastern Area NTS Digital which I am directly responsible for, but similar activty exists in both Central and Pacific Areas NTS Digital For Eastern Area we typically handle 10,000 to 12,000 messages a month We have 6 24/7 MBO stations, the rest are Digital Relay stations removing and sending NTS via these MBOs... Also liaisions and connections with the Central and Pacific Area MBO hubs. Questions wb2...@optonline.net 73 Dave WB2FTX Eastern Area Digital Coordinator- NTS Digital - Original Message - From: David Little To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, March 05, 2009 10:13 PM Subject: RE: [digitalradio] NTS Digital Rick, Army MARS is using MT-63 on mixed mode nets with some regularity. We also use Olivia when conditions warrant the slower speed of transmission. Easypal is also being used for picture transmission, as well as text broadcasts. David KD4NUE -Original Message- From: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:digitalra...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Rick W Sent: Thursday, March 05, 2009 10:01 PM To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Subject: [digitalradio] NTS Digital Maybe some of you can help me with understanding the current digital state of the art with NTS. Recently, there have been some NTS yahoogroups formed for our region and the sections in that region. There is no digital presence at this time, however, at least one ham I knew in past years (now SK) was involved at some level, perhaps Pactor. At least one of the daytime region voice nets is struggling to survive. I suspect that CW nets are having some similar problems and if not, they surely will have as more CW competent OTs become SK. I don't see anywhere near enough new hams becoming proficient in CW and also having an interest in traffic handling. So I suggested that if there was any interest, maybe we could try using some of the new technologies that have only recently become available to us. That means either using an extremely robust mode such as Olivia which can compete with CW from some of my experiences, or using an ARQ mode with NBEMS or possibly Multipsk's FAE400. Eventually, it is possible that WINMOR may become available for peer to peer but that is likely far into the future from what they are saying. Are any of the NTS digital stations using sound card modes or are they staying with the NTS/D (actually the old Winlink system) and Pactor? Any recommendations, or even better, any actual experiences with getting area, region, or even section nets using some of the newer digital sound card modes? 73, Rick, KV9U -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.8/1986 - Release Date: 03/05/09 19:32:00 No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.8/1986 - Release Date: 03/05/09 19:32:00
RE: [digitalradio] NTS Digital
A good deal of flexibility is gained in MARS by reason of non-mode-specific frequency allocation. I am trying to get our system to try Olivia or MT63 SSB mode on VHF, which so far has been FM only. FWIW, and IMHO, the HF MARS RMS system is effective because 1) it is restricted to compatible modes, with 2) multiple coordianted frequencies monitored by each RMS, and 3) networked RMS's disitributed across CONUS. Cortland KA5S AAR5UT - Original Message - From: David Little To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: 3/5/2009 10:13:36 PM Subject: RE: [digitalradio] NTS Digital Rick, Army MARS is using MT-63 on mixed mode nets with some regularity. We also use Olivia when conditions warrant the slower speed of transmission. Easypal is also being used for picture transmission, as well as text broadcasts. David KD4NUE -Original Message- From: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:digitalra...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Rick W Sent: Thursday, March 05, 2009 10:01 PM To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Subject: [digitalradio] NTS Digital Maybe some of you can help me with understanding the current digital state of the art with NTS. Recently, there have been some NTS yahoogroups formed for our region and the sections in that region. There is no digital presence at this time, however, at least one ham I knew in past years (now SK) was involved at some level, perhaps Pactor. At least one of the daytime region voice nets is struggling to survive. I suspect that CW nets are having some similar problems and if not, they surely will have as more CW competent OTs become SK. I don't see anywhere near enough new hams becoming proficient in CW and also having an interest in traffic handling. So I suggested that if there was any interest, maybe we could try using some of the new technologies that have only recently become available to us. That means either using an extremely robust mode such as Olivia which can compete with CW from some of my experiences, or using an ARQ mode with NBEMS or possibly Multipsk's FAE400. Eventually, it is possible that WINMOR may become available for peer to peer but that is likely far into the future from what they are saying. Are any of the NTS digital stations using sound card modes or are they staying with the NTS/D (actually the old Winlink system) and Pactor? Any recommendations, or even better, any actual experiences with getting area, region, or even section nets using some of the newer digital sound card modes? 73, Rick, KV9U --- Text inserted by Panda IS 2009: This message has NOT been classified as spam. If it is unsolicited mail (spam), click on the following link to reclassify it: It is spam! ---
[digitalradio] Mode selection
John, You have brought this up before, but I am like most hams and try to do the right thing. I use wide modes, narrow modes, and in between modes. Much depends upon who you are trying to contact and the current conditions. If I want to work a PSK31 or CW station, then of course I will be narrow as can be. If conditions are terrible on 80 meters and not much else is on, then I may use Olivia, even using the wider formats, but mostly to test and see if they really work better. Not long ago I parked down on 160 around 1807 and answered a ham calling CQ on Olivia (500 Hz). He was almost shocked that there really were hams using digital modes down there, HI. Rules of thumb that I have been trying to follow, and I hope more hams will give serious consideration: - Follow the IARU recommendations. Here in the U.S. we don't absolutely have to follow it, but it sounds like some countries are required to do so. For example, I don't intentionally use modes wider than 200 Hz below 3580, 7035, 10140, 14070, etc. I may have forgotten, but it was not intentional and I keep a copy of the IARU band plan available for reference. (Note: 500 Hz digital modes are in the IARU band plan on the lower few kHz of 160, but that is a rare exception). - if conditions are bad, and there are few stations on the band, then wider modes may be more appropriate. Then again they may work against you, depending upon their design. - I generally prefer modes that are under 500 Hz. Partly because they increase spectrum efficiency so that there can be more simultaneous users. I totally disagree with those who believe that having the widest and faster possible mode is more efficient on a shared, non-channelized resource such as we have on the ham bands. - The medium bandwidth modes often work better than the very wide ones or the very narrow ones. Partly that is due to being newer technology, but also because having many simultaneous tones spread out over a wide area (OFDM) just does not work well under difficult conditions since individual tones are necessarily of reduced strength. As a good example, Pactor 3 drops down to only two tones, although separated by something around 700 Hz, when it goes to its most robust speed level. Another example is comparing the older 8FSK125 MIL-STD-188-141A ALE mode to the 8FSK50 FAE400 mode. Even though the FAE400 modes is very much narrower by at least 5 times, with greatly increased spectrum sharing, it actually works much more robustly and can have higher throughput than the extremely wide 141A mode unless conditions are good enough to allow the 141A mode to get through. Even then the 141A mode is not 5 times faster (maybe 2X) under the very best of conditions. - Other factors include what other hams are willing to operate and since expensive hardware is relatively rare you won't find many contacts with those modes, and it does not work well for local/regional public service/emergency use which is a large part of my interest since almost no other operators have those types of modes. I only returned to digital modes when sound card technologies became available and I suspect that is true for most other digital operators. 73, Rick, KV9U John Becker, WØJAB wrote: Oh thank the Gods, Here I was thinking that you was one of the anti wide - anti hardware type guys, At 04:07 PM 3/5/2009, you wrote: I am not necessarily opposed to other hams using Pactor modes, but the one issue that is consistently ignored seems to be the transmission of fax/image data when using the wide bandwidth modes. If kept at 500 Hz or less, the changes in the rules a few years back finally allows fax/image to used in the RTTY/Data areas. But it does not allow it for any modes greater than 500 Hz such as when using P3.
[digitalradio] Uk500 kHz Multifunction Beacon using 5 Meg experimetal system
UK500KHzMultifunction Beacon using 5 Meg experimetal system Now running thanks to Andy, G4JNT, on 503.7 KHz carrier frequency 24/7 , MF beacon, using the same transmission format as the 5Meg experimental beacon system. This is a reception only system and utilises the reporting software written by G3PLX the originator of the psk31 data system. Please check out the instructions and download links on :- http://groups.google.com/group/uk500khz/web/multi-function-beacon-by-andy-g4jnt
[digitalradio] CBer on JT65A
There is a VA3 station on JT65A the past two days who is probably running an amp. All I see on my WSJT screen is a big white blotch. Very annoying. The program won't even decode it.
[digitalradio] Re: CBer on JT65A
You might try reducing the AF level into your sound card; sounds like it is being over-driven...aim for about 0 db in your Rx noise box assuming you are using WSJT. 73, Bill N9DSJ --- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, Kim kimme...@... wrote: There is a VA3 station on JT65A the past two days who is probably running an amp. All I see on my WSJT screen is a big white blotch. Very annoying. The program won't even decode it.
RE: [digitalradio] Re: CBer on JT65A
What frequency you folks been using? -Original Message- From: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:digitalra...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bill McLaughlin Sent: Friday, March 06, 2009 7:02 PM To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Subject: [digitalradio] Re: CBer on JT65A You might try reducing the AF level into your sound card; sounds like it is being over-driven...aim for about 0 db in your Rx noise box assuming you are using WSJT. 73, Bill N9DSJ --- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, Kim kimme...@... wrote: There is a VA3 station on JT65A the past two days who is probably running an amp. All I see on my WSJT screen is a big white blotch. Very annoying. The program won't even decode it. Announce your digital presence via our Interactive Sked Page at http://www.obriensweb.com/sked Recommended software: Winwarbler, FLDIGI, DM780, or Multipsk Yahoo! Groups Links --- avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 090306-0, 03/06/2009 Tested on: 3/6/2009 9:31:39 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2009 ALWIL Software. http://www.avast.com
