Re: [digitalradio] Digital Voice update #2 - programmers wanted - codec2 and the G3PLX modem

2010-08-29 Thread Kristoff Bonne
Hi Trevor,


Op 29-08-10 11:08, Trevor . schreef:
>> I do not understand why -say- the IARU does not does this. I'm not
>> say they should endorce any "standard" of any technology.
>>  
> Unfortunately it would require a volunteer willing to put in a lot of hard 
> work to do. Volunteers are always in short supply.
>
Well, I don't know.
In the internet-world, RFCs are usually written by the people who design 
the protocol or the technology explained in the RFC. The IETF doesn't do 
that neither.


All the IARU should do is:

- encourage people who create new protocols and technologies to document 
it in a written document.

- Do "quality control" (e.g. concerning the exact wording of the RFCs)

- Publish them. (which just means "put them on their website").



Now I must say. Thinking about it.

Perhaps one of the differences in (say) an internet-protocol and ham 
digital modes is that the first group is usually created by teams of 
people, while I have the impression that a lot of the digital modes are 
created by just one or a very limited number of people.

In a team, there usually already is written documentation anyway (as 
part of the process of coming up with the specification and the 
discussions inside the team), it's probably much easier to "translate 
the final version into a RFC-document" and there usually already is 
somebody of the team assigned to documentation anyway.


If you do create something by yourself, most people have "something on 
paper, but most of it in my head". The task of asking "now write this 
all into a nice technical spec" is then much more work.



Perhaps what Dave (Rowe, creator of codec2) should do is to make a 
technical presentation on some ham conference (preferable filmed and 
available on youtube afterwards) so that somebody else can start write a 
technical specs based on that.

And, to be honest. Having to give a technical presentation is not 
necessairy a bad thing. I noticed myself that, having to make some 
slides and having to think on how to explain something, quite often 
leads to some insides into problems you are having.
:-)


> One existing source of info is
>
> http://www.arrl.org/technical-characteristics
>
> But this doesn't provide always provide detailed description of a mode, for 
> instance you couldn't recreate Pactor-III from the information supplied 
> there. Also I suspect it's not kept up to date with mode enhancements.
Thanks for the link. Very interesting.


IIRC, pactor 2 and pactor 3 use patented technology so I doubt it will 
be freely documented somewhere. :-(


> 73 Trevor M5AKA
>
Cheerio!

Kristoff ON5ARF (ex ON1ARF)


Re: [digitalradio] Digital Voice update #2 - programmers wanted - codec2 and the G3PLX modem

2010-08-28 Thread Kristoff Bonne

Hi all,



Talking of documentation and specs.

I am still pretty new to radio-amateurism (just started again after more 
then 17 years) one of the first things I noticed when I started 
exploring all these digital modes, is that it is pretty difficult to get 
specifications and exact documentation of them all.


If I look at the culture of the internet and opensource (which is my 
profesional background), I'm still surprised that there is not central 
"repository" of all these digital modes.
In the internet-world, there is the IETF (internet Engineering Task 
Force) and there are RFCs.


Almost all protocols are published as a RFC, for everybody to read; 
usually at the same time when applications and tools using it appear; 
and the IETF make sure there is a consistent wording and quality in 
these documents.
This means that everbody who is interested in a protocol or some 
technology can just download the specs and read them.



Either I have looked good enout, but AFAIK, in the ham-world; that does 
not exist at all.


I've been searching all over the web to find information on how all 
these digital modes really work and you really need to scrap information 
together for all over the web (without any certainty what is now "the 
correct way").


I do not understand why -say- the IARU does not does this. I'm not say 
they should endorce any "standard" of any technology.
But, the way I see it, it should really help if they would provide a 
platform so that everybody who comes up with a new technology or a 
protocol can document it (in a way consistent to other "RFCs" and place 
it in a central "repostitory" so that everybody can read it.
That would help a lot, clear up inconsistencies between programs and 
help developers to write code.




Cheerio!
Kr. Bonne.


Op 28-08-10 11:17, Patrick Lindecker schreef:


Hello Andy,
I think it would be an interesting subject. However, if such mode was 
created I think it might be rather be conceived in some public way, so 
that the _detailed _specifications be public and written by 
specialists of this specific matter (I don't belong to these specialists).
Then, it would be (relatively) easy to carry these detailed 
specifications to multimode programs, which would be compatible on 
this particular mode.
Now, I think the Cesco program (FDMDV) exists and it worked well (at 
least with the first Codec), so...

73
Patrick
- Original Message -

*From:* Andy obrien 
*To:* digitalradio@yahoogroups.com

*Sent:* Saturday, August 28, 2010 9:34 AM
*Subject:* Re: [digitalradio] Digital Voice update #2 -
programmers wanted - codec2 and the G3PLX modem

I wonder if Patrick would be interested ???

Andy K3UK


On Sat, Aug 28, 2010 at 3:26 AM, Tony mailto:d...@optonline.net>> wrote:

All,

I received an email from Peter Martinez today regarding the
new codec
developed by Dave Rowe. I had asked him if it was possible to
use it in
one of the digital voice applications and he explained that
the modem,
which was originally designed by Peter for a different voice
codec,
would have to be modified for it to work with Dave's codec.

He said that he would not be able to take this on at the
moment because
of other obligations, but he did mention that he would pass
along the
know-how to anyone who would like to try writing a modem for
Dave's
codec based on Peter's own FDM design. This is how Cesco, HB9TLK
re-engineered Peter's modem to work with a slower 1400 bps
codec for the
digital voice program FDMDV and how Erik, VK4RS developed EasyPal

Unfortunately, we haven't been able to get in touch with Cesco
for some
time now so it may be necessary to have someone come up with a
new
digital voice application - something along the lines of
WinDRM / FDMDV.

If anyone is interested in taking on these projects, please
contact me
direct and I will put you in touch with Peter.

Thanks,

Tony -K2MO









Re: AW: AW: AW: [digitalradio] ROS v 4.8.X not spamming cluster

2010-07-25 Thread Kristoff Bonne
Laurie,


Then why don't they filter it at the cluster?
Makes more sence, if you ask me.



Cheerio! Kr. Bonne.


Op 25-07-10 04:01, Laurie, VK3AMA schreef:
> Because, outside the US, there is a large EU user-base of ROS users
> contributing a significant of unwanted spam to the Cluster.
>
> de Laurie, VK3AMA
>
> On 25/07/2010 11:28 AM, F.R. Ashley wrote:
>
>
>>>
>> After reading endless posts about this software, I sincerely wonder why in
>> heck anyone is even using it.  What are the chances of giving it a rest?
>>
>> 73 Buddy WB4M
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>> http://www.obriensweb.com/digispotter.html
>> Chat, Skeds, and "Spots" all in one (resize to suit)
>>
>> Facebook= http://www.facebook.com/pages/digitalradio/123270301037522
>>
>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  
>
> 
>
> http://www.obriensweb.com/digispotter.html
> Chat, Skeds, and "Spots" all in one (resize to suit)
>
> Facebook= http://www.facebook.com/pages/digitalradio/123270301037522
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

<>

Re: [digitalradio] Question about mail servers on HF

2009-03-31 Thread Kristoff Bonne
Hi All,


Russell Blair schreef:
> We'er going out in the RV for about two weeks, and would like to check my 
> mail on yahoo.com: Question is there nay mail servers on the HF that I can 
> check into and get my mail, and what program would I need for this to happen, 
> any help ?
>   
You know. I once saw a TV-documentory on this, and more particular on
communication and life for people living on the small poor
islands-nations of the pacific ocean.

They used some kind of HF-radio based system to sent messages from
"post-offices" located on certain islands to other Islands. I never
found what system they where actually using. All information I found on
the net is either aimed at hams or emergency communications, or for
(rich) owners of yachts.

Does anybody know if these systems are used by "PTT"s in the world?



BTW. According the documantory, the main problem for these
island-nations was not really the technology and equipement, but find a
good secure electricity-system which -by preference- is not dependent on
(to be imported, so very expensive) petroleum.


Cheerio! Kr. Bonne.

-- 
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Re: [digitalradio] Emission types

2006-08-06 Thread Kristoff Bonne
Bob,


WA7HYD schreef:
> I'm trying to compile a list of the known digital modes and their
> emission type, i.e. AM = A3J.

The wiki is your friend:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Types_of_radio_emissions


> Any help would be greatly appreciated.
> de WA7HYD
> Bob in WA
Cheerio et 73
Kristoff (on1arf)


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[digitalradio] new yahoo-group: gmfsk-devel

2006-04-25 Thread Kristoff Bonne

Gegroet,


To continuo on the discussion here before, I set up a new yahoo-group 
called "gmfsk-devel". Anybody interested in the further developement of 
gmfsk or spin-of projects, feel free to join.



The URL is http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gmfsk-devel
People who want to join via email, sent a mail to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]



The mailinglist is not moderated. Joining does is subject to moderation, 
but only to block spammer from joining the list.




Cheerio! Kr. Bonne.


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Re: [digitalradio] MFSK/Olivia - sources released under GPL

2006-04-24 Thread Kristoff Bonne

Gegroet,

Leigh L Klotz, Jr. schreef:


Please count me in on such a list,  but I wouldn't want to do anything
to discourage Tomi.  Are you going to contact him?


I did email him; but -from what I understand from other people- he is a 
very busy man.




My main goal would be to separate the modem back end from the GUI front
and and have them communicate something like the way X Windows does, so
we could have clients (GUIs like gpsk, or services like PSKMail).  Also
the modem server would more easily run on Windows, Mac, etc. that way,
and be able to have a great UI for the platform.



Well, I agree. gmfsk would be a great "toolbox" for all kind of 
protocols; so a system which is "open" so that other protocols and 
applications can be added inside into it, on top of it and below it).


The way I see it, there are about 4 different parts:

1/ The "lower-layer IO", i.e. everything that has to do with the audio- 
and PTT-devices.


What would be nice is a way to make gmfsk read from files instead of 
from the audio-interfaces. (would be nice to do debugging or analise 
audio-samples that where recorded before-hand).



2/ The GUI: Is very good.
The only thing I see that is but something that might be added is -on 
one side- a full 4 Khz spectrum/waterfall, but also a "zoom" into a very 
small part of the spectrum.


3/ The DSP-related stuff (FSK/MF/BPSK/QPSK/...) and the protocols that 
run on top of it. (let's call it layer 3a and 3b).


The reason I would seperate the two is that certain protocols use the 
same modulation-sceme and could then use the same code. So, as gmfsk now 
already has RTTY, if you seperate the FSK-decoding from the upper-layer 
stuff; you could then use the same FSK-decoding modules for other protocols.


So if you would then like to write (say) a navtex-decoder; you can do it 
by just adding code for the navtex/sitor-B/amtor-FEC stuff, and place it 
on-top of the FSK-decoding module.


Another nice thing would be that a upper-layer protocol-code could use 
receive a dump of the FFT-process without any decoding. This would allow 
you to write (say) a wefax decoder.


4/ The "upper-layer IO",
So provide a standardised way to attach higher-level applications on top 
of the core communication protocols. This would allow applications like 
PSKmail to connect to a gmfsk using standard ports (unix-sockets, 
tcp-sockets) without the need to hack the code of gmfsk; or a decoder 
for digital sstv. (to name just two of them).


Infact, as you also said, it would actually be possible to run this 
remotely from another machine over a network.




No a more general note.
I have the impression that most ham-software is writen by a single 
person or by just a very limited group. That's a bit strange as if you 
look at the open-source world; most applications overthere are writen by 
tens or even hunders of people. (how many people are working on -say- 
firefox, open office, GNOME or KDE, the linux-kernel, ...)?


Perhaps, if we redesign fmfsk into a generic toolkit for digital radio; 
this would attract more people into this; as there wouldn't be a need to 
write everything from scratch again for your little program for your 
little new digital mode.


Just write a "module" and plug it into the toolkit. A bit like lego. :-)


Cheerio! Kr. Bonne.



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Re: [digitalradio] MFSK/Olivia - sources released under GPL

2006-04-24 Thread Kristoff Bonne




Gegroet,



Me too, I would be interested in hacking gmfsk (more out of interest of
learning to write digital-mode programs). gmfsk is IMHO a great start
to code new modes instead of writing a complete program by yourself, as
it already has a great GUI and a number of low-level DSP algoritms in
it.


Wouldn't it be a good idea to set up a seperate list on
gmfsk-development for everybody who is interested in this. There seams
to be some people/groups going there own way, so getting them all on
one mailing-list would (IMHO) be the best way to get everybody at least
in touch with eachother.


I do think this would be the priviledge of Tommi to do this, but as it
looks like he has to much other things on his hands (hey, I understand,
I have a life outside the internet too, you know :-)), perhaps somebody
else could do it.

If it is on yahoogroups, I would be willing to do this and take up the
role of modurator for the time being.



Cheerio! Kr. Bonne.


Leigh L Klotz, Jr. schreef:
I
sent the original sources I got from Pawel to Tomi and did the first 
on-the-air Olivia test with gMFSK.  There is another OM who has
recently 
forked gMFSK and announced it on this list.   Getting those too back 
together would be a wiorthy goal as well.
Leigh/WA5ZNU
On Sun, 23 Apr 2006 5:56 am, Darren Long wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Can we just compile this into the latest release of gMFSK, or
isn't 
> gMFSK built like that?
>
> Darren, G0HWW
>
> On 22 Apr 2006, at 22:04, Pawel Jalocha wrote:
>
>> It is my pleasure to annonce that the MFSK/Olivia source code
>> is released under GPL and can be dowwnloaded from:
>>
>> http://homepage.sunrise.ch/mysunrise/jalocha/mfsk_olivia-Apr2006.tgz
>>
>> Pawel
>
> Need a Digital mode QSO? Connect to  Telnet://cluster.dynalias.org
>
> Other areas of interest:
>
> The MixW Reflector : http://groups.yahoo.com/group/themixwgroup/
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>
> 
>
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>
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Re: [digitalradio] Macintosh software?

2006-04-15 Thread Kristoff Bonne

Gegroet,

KV9U schreef:


Without question, the majority of the good software is on MS Windows. In
fact, many modes are not even available for *nix OS's such as Linux, Mac
X, etc. The installed user base is many times higher for MS products at
the desktop level and most programmers focus on that platform or only
have expertise on that platform. It will be interesting to see if this
changes over the next decade or so because of the shift to Linux in some
areas of the world.


Well, my impression is different. I see two different issues:

-> concerning mac, the problem might not really be a question of "most 
people have windows";  but in a different form.
Fact is that it is much easier to find yourself a cheap 2nd hand 
computer to use for your ham-related activities then to find a cheap 
second-hand mac.
I have a mac in the living-room and my main computer I use for work is a 
linux laptop, but that does not that I need to use these programs for radio.


The question is "why are there so few ham-related programs for mac?", 
because very few people use a mac for HAM-related activities.



-> Concerning the question of linux vs. windows; if you find yourself a 
cheap 2nd hand computer for receiving digital modes, in theory, it does 
not really matter if it runs windows or linux; on condition that people 
are prepared to use linux.
This is -of course- an issue that most HAM are not really IT-people so 
-like most other people outside the IT-domain- do not really know 
anything else but windows.
This can -of course- partly be solved by the ham-oriented linux-on-CD 
distributions (like hamshack and AFU knoppix); which are 
linux-distributions which boot from CD and provide a linux-enviroment 
with a number of HAM-related software without installing anything on the PC.


Hamshack: http://hamshack-hack.sourceforge.net/
Afu knoppix: http://www.afu-knoppix.de/


But not for amateur radio related software (DXLab, Multipsk, N1MM
logger, WinDRM, Hampal, MMTY, driver for Ten Tec Pegasus rig, etc.).


For me, the main difference between the windows HAM-software (like 
multipsk) and the linux-version (line gmfsk) is the fact that the 
linux-version does provide the source-code and allows me to look into 
that; while the windows-version does not. It may be "free" (like in 
"free beer"), but it is not free (as in "open source" software).


But, of course, for 99% -who are just users- this is not an issue at 
all; but if you are interested in writing programs yourself for a 
certain system (like myself), linux does provide me with a lot more 
flexibility than the windows-enviroment.



BTW. To complete the list of linux-related HAM-software, here are two more:
http://packages.debian.org/unstable/hamradio/ is a list of all 
HAM-related software on the debian distribution reference-site.


Not really "HAM", but "digital mode"-related:
GNUradio (http://www.gnu.org/software/gnuradio/) which is a project to 
develop all kind of software-defined radios for a large number of 
systems ranging from regular AM or FM to ATSC (digital TV).


It's a nice example of a project which works better in a 
linux-enviroment as lives on the feedback of a group-effort of a large 
number of people writing code all together. It's a bit sad to see that 
this is not yet the case in the HAM-world. There are a lot of programs 
and most of them are free, but how much of them actually come with the 
code included?



gmfsk is a great start to build other modes ontop of  it. The waterfall 
allows you to select a frequency very easily (althou it would be nice to 
have the full 4 Khz spectrum) and from there on, it does have a number 
of basic modes included. (and the demodulation-scemes that come with it).


So, if you have a GUI which allows to choice a frequency and the code to 
do basic FSK-demodulation, it shouldn't be to difficult to add the code 
for (say) SITOR-B/navtex.
Another nice thing would be to have a basic "dump" of the bittrain after 
the demodulation (in this case, FSK) where you can add code to find out 
the baudrate of the signal or other things.


So, I'm looking into the possibility to add "plugs" into the code of 
gmfsk, which would allow other modules to be added or just to use gmftk 
as a frontend for other sceme's. So, in fact, turn the "all in one 
program" for a number of protocols into a building-block on which other 
protocols and tools can be added.





73,
Rick, KV9U


Cheerio! Kr. Bonne.


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Re: [digitalradio] navtex on linux

2006-04-14 Thread Kristoff Bonne

Rein,


Rein Couperus PA0R schreef:


I use gMFSK + PSKmail to read the Navtex messages from the internet.
Much faster and 0 errors as PSKmail uses real ARQ. I also use it to
download grib files with the wind information of the Atlantic when I am
sailing.


Thanks for the info.

But as I do not sail myself, I'm more interested in the fun of being 
able to decode it on my linux-box then acually doing something with it.

:-)




73,
Rein PA0R


Cheerio! Kristoff (on1arf)


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Re: [digitalradio] navtex on linux (was: Do we really need to know?)

2006-04-14 Thread Kristoff Bonne

Gegroet,



Dave Cole (NK7Z/NNN0RDO) schreef:


Can someone tell me what freq NAVTEX transmissions are on please?


The main frequencies are 518 Khz for the "international" (i.e. 
english-language) broadcasts and 490 Khz for "local" information.


You can find the schedule here:
http://home.cogeco.ca/~dxinfo/navtex.htm

It carries safely-related maritime information. It's dual-frequency FSK 
at 100 baud with a shift of 170 Hz.
In tropical areas, is also on 4209.5 Khz, but I don't know if there are 
already a lot of stations on that frequency.




Thanks,
Dave
NK7Z/NNN0RDO
http://www.nk7z.net


Cheerio!
Kristoff
ON1ARF


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[digitalradio] navtex on linux (was: Do we really need to know?)

2006-04-14 Thread Kristoff Bonne

Gegroet,

AA0OI schreef:

You know what really bakes my cookies.. I put on a sceince paper in 
the third grade that there were more than 9 planets and they marked it 
wrong.. ( ha ha)


Well, the funny thing is that it may be that we will only have eigth of 
them soon. It may be that pluto will loose its status of "planet".



But, to get back on-topic.
I'm looking for a program for linux that can decode navtex/amtor-FEC.

I find the program "hf-terminal" but it has a lot of problems on my 
computer (I cannot get it to decode the navtex-transmissions here in 
ostend and it does not work for RTTY neither), it does not look to be 
supported anymore and its mailing-list only contains spam.



Another question:
Does anybody have any experience with gmfsk? Is there a dedicated 
mailing-list for it?


Is it possible to build plugin into it? It would be nice it be able to 
use it as a "frontend":

- indicate select a frequency/shift on the waterfall
- select (say) FSK/50 baud
and that is be able to retrieve the decoded bitstream by some other 
program. (e.g. one which does AMTOR/FEC-NAVTEX)





Garrett
AA0OI


Cheerio! Kristoff (on1arf)


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Re: [digitalradio] Re: Do we really need to know?

2006-04-13 Thread Kristoff Bonne

Gegroet,


Dave Bernstein schreef:


What's amazing is how much of what we were tought in the 60's was
flat-out wrong:

- plate tectonics is a crack-pot hypothesis

- the fundamental particles are protons, neutrons, and electrons

- our solar system has 9 planets


The problem with this one is not really the number of "planets" around 
the sun, but "what is the definition of 'planet'".






If you really want a laugh, look at some issues of Popular Mechanics
from that era...



BTW.
My first computer here was a tandy coco. A 8/16 bit process running at 
some 700-and-odd Khz and 16 KB of RAM. Later, I added 48 KB of extra ram 
and two floppies of 5.25 inch (holding no less then 720 KB each).


When running OS/9, it did multi-user, multitasking and real-time in what 
was sold as a game-computer; at the times when MSDOS/PCDOS took its 
first steps into the world.
I still remember the surprise when the teacher told me their brandnew 
computer where not even able to format a floppy in the background while 
you where doing something else. When you did "format a:", you had to 
wait three minutes when the floppy was being formatted and could not do 
anything else. That on a machine that was two to three years newer then 
my "games-computer" at home, had 8 times as much memory and was called 
"the future of computing" at that era.



That's one of the problems of *popular* science (be it computer-science 
or mechanics). It can also be "funny" for people who are not "limited" 
to what the "popular" science says. To take the example you brought up. 
The very strange orbit of pluto already was known in the 60s, and some 
people where already then asking the question "is pluto really a planet 
or not?"



Concerning the original question:
It doesn't hurt if people indicate what computers they use, but me 
personaly, I am more interested in what software they use; especially if 
it software for linux (or -to a lesser degree-) for mac.




   73,
  Dave, AA6YQ


Cheerio! Kr. Bonne.


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Re: [digitalradio] Linux for Windows addicts

2006-02-22 Thread Kristoff Bonne

Gegroet,

Kristoff Bonne schreef:

In addition to the hints given by some other people, you can also take 
a look at "qemu", which is a free PC emulator. The main focus is to 
run it on a linux host but you can also run it on a windows box.


Oeps. Forgot the URLs:
Main project page: http://fabrice.bellard.free.fr/qemu/index.html
Qemu for win32: http://free.oszoo.org/download.html


Cheerio! Kr. Bonne.


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Re: [digitalradio] Linux for Windows addicts

2006-02-22 Thread Kristoff Bonne

Gegroet,

Andrew O'Brien schreef:


Please excuse the Linux rookie questions.  I wonder if there is an
easy to manage CD bootable Linux program that one could download for a
CD burn?  Sometime ago a member here (Harv, I think) was kind enough
to mail out a CD that did this, it had a few sound card glitches so I
stopped using it.
It seems that some of us that are Windows addicts, but want to try
some Linux only software, could be tempted if we had a simple to
install Linux system that easily reverts to Windows.  Maybe there are
updates to what Harv was distributing?


In addition to the hints given by some other people, you can also take a 
look at "qemu", which is a free PC emulator. The main focus is to run it 
on a linux host but you can also run it on a windows box.


This allows you to play around with different unix operating-systems 
inside a virtual PC on your windows; and will give you a way to try it 
out before you start installing it on a PC or without the need of 
"live-CDs".



Cheerio! Kr. Bonne.


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