Re: [digitalradio] Licensing of Pactor modes - Source code and detailed specifications
- Original Message - From: f6cte [EMAIL PROTECTED] However, you can directly use the code without understand it but it is not the way I do because it is without interest. One main reason why PSK became so popular was that source code was made available early on. Many have implemented PSK31 using Moe's PSKCore DLL without fully understanding how it works. Making source available will increase the probability of the mode being adopted by other developers. Myself I have used a lot of code from fldigi in my own software, currently I am adding SSTV using another open source project as the basis of the SSTV decoding. There is so much work involved in writing a fool-proof program with a good user interface that having to also write the encoding / decoding interface would make sure projects unfeasible for a single programmer who codes in his spare time. Simon HB9DRV
Re: [digitalradio] Licensing of Pactor modes - Source code and detailed specifications
There is so much work involved in writing a fool-proof program with a good user interface that having to also write the encoding / decoding interface would make sure projects unfeasible for a single programmer who codes in his spare time. Simon HB9DRV I can second that :) Rein PA0R -- http://pa0r.blogspirit.com Announce your digital presence via our Interactive Sked Page at http://www.obriensweb.com/drsked/drsked.php View the DRCC numbers database at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio/database Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[digitalradio] Licensing of Pactor modes - Source code and detailed specifications
Hello Demetre and all, writers who although they allow everyone to use their program, they keep their code to themselves. Of course it is everyone's right to protect their code and I do not blame anyone here, I am just stating a fact. As I belong to this category (Multipsk author), here is my opinion about that. The source code is good but it is much better to have the detailed specifications. When I have only the source code, it is an ordeal to reverse engineers the detailed specifications from the source code. Do you imagine, if you have 10 lines of code, the amount of work it is to extract what it is important... However, you can directly use the code without understand it but it is not the way I do because it is without interest. So my philosophy is to supply detailed specifications to give possibility for others to be able to program their own decoding application. It's what I have ever done (included for ARQ FAE). Moreover, I think it is moral that a programmer has to do a bit of work to decode a mode. I saw that a professional decoder decodes some of my modes simply with my published specifications. And I'm quite sure that if I had published the source code but not the specifications, he would not have decoded those modes. So in conlusion, PSE don't keep on thinking that, naturally, if you have the code you have all the necessary. It is a false idea. 73 Patrick Note: in Pactor 1, you have detailed specifications...this mode can be decoded and I've done it (however, for an pure ARQ mode, there are some lacks). In Pactor 2 and 3: you have general specifications but not the detailed ones, so these modes can't be decoded.
[digitalradio] Licensing of Pactor modes
Do you really know if Pactor was licensed to others? If SCS actually fully licensed the mode, it would seem to me that they would insure that the memory ARQ would have been included. Only the SCS modems seemed to have this feature. That is why they worked better between SCS modems than between other manufacturers products, even between the SCS modem and other manufacturers. For quite some time my main software/hardware mix was an AEA CP-1 with BMKMulti. Crude by today's standards but worked well for RTTY, CW, AMTOR. Instead of upgrading when he added Pactor, I unfortunately sold all my digital equipment to buy the HAL P-38 modem which turned out to be a complete disaster. The HAL P mode (an attempt to simulate the Pactor mode) was pathetic with dropping what appeared to be a solid link, etc. They tried many software updates, but nothing improved. Clover II, which was a nice mode, could not work deep into the noise and so was very limited. Even when I used to try and chat with Ray Petit, W7GHM, the inventor of CCW, Clover and Clover II, with marginal link conditions, Clover II would rarely work well. If we had had PSK31, MFSK16, FAE400, etc. like we do today, our chats would have been fine as signals were clearly copyable by ear. From all information, including from Bill Henry at HAL, SCS would not license Pactor modes. 73, Rick, KV9U Demetre SV1UY wrote: Of course they licensed PACTOR 1 and Kantronics, MFJ, AEA and others made a mess of PACTOR 1 because they were not able to implement it properly. They could ask SCS for the license of PACTOR 2 but they were not even able to copy PACTOR 1 properly, never mind PACTOR 2. I still have a KAM plus, but it's this modem even on HF PACKET performed horribly compared to the SCS Modems. The only guy that managed to write a decent program that worked fine in PACTOR 1 and many other modes including AMTOR, was G4MBK. His software BMKmulti could do RTTY, AMTOR and PACTOR 1 but it needed a homemade modem or terminal unit to work. It run in DOS mode and I still have mine loaded in my Olivetti Quaderno (an A5 sized DOS Laptop). An other 2 soundcard Pactor 1 implementations, one in DOS and the other in Linux I hear that they never worked properly.
Re: [digitalradio] Licensing of Pactor modes
GM Rick,
From my KAM Plus manual, under Pactor Operation:
The KAM Plus uses memory ARQ in this mode to improve reception.
Perhaps earlier implementations by Kantronics did not... this one did. If I
watch and listen closely, I can observe packets being completed even when no
single packet transmission was received without noise.
Of course this is Pactor 1 only.
Howard K5HB
- Original Message
From: Rick [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2007 10:04:45 AM
Subject: [digitalradio] Licensing of Pactor modes
Do you really know if Pactor was licensed to others? If SCS
actually
fully licensed the mode, it would seem to me that they would insure that
the memory ARQ would have been included. Only the SCS modems seemed to
have this feature. That is why they worked better between SCS modems
than between other manufacturers products, even between the SCS modem
and other manufacturers.
For quite some time my main software/hardware mix was an AEA CP-1 with
BMKMulti. Crude by today's standards but worked well for RTTY, CW, AMTOR.
Instead of upgrading when he added Pactor, I unfortunately sold all my
digital equipment to buy the HAL P-38 modem which turned out to be a
complete disaster. The HAL P mode (an attempt to simulate the Pactor
mode) was pathetic with dropping what appeared to be a solid link, etc.
They tried many software updates, but nothing improved.
Clover II, which was a nice mode, could not work deep into the noise and
so was very limited. Even when I used to try and chat with Ray Petit,
W7GHM, the inventor of CCW, Clover and Clover II, with marginal link
conditions, Clover II would rarely work well. If we had had PSK31,
MFSK16, FAE400, etc. like we do today, our chats would have been fine as
signals were clearly copyable by ear.
From all information, including from Bill Henry at HAL, SCS would not
license Pactor modes.
73,
Rick, KV9U
Demetre SV1UY wrote:
Of course they licensed PACTOR 1 and Kantronics, MFJ, AEA and others
made a mess of PACTOR 1 because they were not able to implement it
properly.
They could ask SCS for the license of PACTOR 2 but they were not even
able to copy PACTOR 1 properly, never mind PACTOR 2. I still have a
KAM plus, but it's this modem even on HF PACKET performed horribly
compared to the SCS Modems.
The only guy that managed to write a decent program that worked fine
in PACTOR 1 and many other modes including AMTOR, was G4MBK. His
software BMKmulti could do RTTY, AMTOR and PACTOR 1 but it needed a
homemade modem or terminal unit to work. It run in DOS mode and I
still have mine loaded in my Olivetti Quaderno (an A5 sized DOS
Laptop). An other 2 soundcard Pactor 1 implementations, one in DOS and
the other in Linux I hear that they never worked properly.
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