Re: [digitalradio] Re: QRM on PACTOR PMBOS now from DAVE, Congrats!!!
At 09:13 PM 29/12/2007, Rodger wrote: >Demetre SV1UY wrote: > > > Quite the contrary, many american hams own a PTC-II modem, also there > > are more PACTOR PMBOs in USA than the rest of the World right now my > > friend. > >To paraphrase Bill Clinton, it depends on one's use of the word "many." >In fact, a vanishingly small percentage of either American or European >digital operators ever bought SCS modems, due to their high cost. That >was the problem -- it was very difficult to have a Pactor2 >Keyboard-to-Keyboard (KtoK) QSO because so few ops had an SCS modem--and >SCS modems were the ONLY TNCs that could support Pactor 2. For reasons >I am not conversant with, no other manufacturer was ever able to license >Pactor from SCS. Some tried to reverse-engineer Pactor, with some >success with Pactor 1, but no success of which I am aware with Pactor 2. >(The HAL attempts to implement "P-Mode" were a failure, it appeared to >me.) This further diminished Pactor's popularity to the point where >KtoK use of Pactor is as extinct as the Dodo bird in North America at >least. I cannot speak for Europe because propagation being what it is >these days I can rarely hear or work Europe. When you tell me that >Pactor is more common in Europe, I cannot contradict you for this >reason. If true, a logical explanation is the fact that SCS is based in >Europe and Pactor originated there. Or am I wrong, Demetre? > >It became impossible to convince anyone (other than mailbox operators) >to get an SCS TNC once the sound card modes appeared on the scene, more >or less invented by Peter Martinez, one of ham radio's Greats. Since >probably all hams had access to a computer, the need for a $500+ TNC >vanished since hams had access to a plethora of digital modes merely by >interfacing one's radio to the computer. Once I switched over from >Pactor to the sound card modes, I discovered that all of my old Pactor >buddies had done the same, and Pactor was simply dead except for mailboxes. > >There may be a lot of American MBOs, as you say. This illustrates the >need for all of us to support Mark's fine petition -- to get control of >this legion of unattended source of QRM for the benefit and betterment >of our hobby and the advancement of the radio art. > >Despite my support for Mark's fine petition, I suspect that the >mailboxes will fade away pretty soon anyway, as boaters and RVers get >access to the internet through satellite and Wi Fi rather than the >horribly inefficient Winlink system. Heck, you can get internet access >via Wi Fi in coffeeshops and Starbucks these days. They are adding Wi >Fi capability to boat harbors here in California. This trend will >likely spell the end to Winlink. And Pactor. > >de Roger W6VZV I am trying to set up my HF Packet PBBS system to operate mobile/portable on a motorcycle. I figure that IF I operate in the right band allocation, I should be sharing with like mode stations, which means there should be no major problems. Yes, its an automated system that has been around for years...so, what is the problem now? Have the bands been swamped with Packet stations operating outside the suggested freq ranges? I meanI guess I should not worry too much, as the FCC can't make rules for me...:-) 73 Jack VK4JRC
Re: [digitalradio] Re: QRM on PACTOR PMBOS now from DAVE, Congrats!!!
Demetre SV1UY wrote: > Quite the contrary, many american hams own a PTC-II modem, also there > are more PACTOR PMBOs in USA than the rest of the World right now my > friend. To paraphrase Bill Clinton, it depends on one's use of the word "many." In fact, a vanishingly small percentage of either American or European digital operators ever bought SCS modems, due to their high cost. That was the problem -- it was very difficult to have a Pactor2 Keyboard-to-Keyboard (KtoK) QSO because so few ops had an SCS modem--and SCS modems were the ONLY TNCs that could support Pactor 2. For reasons I am not conversant with, no other manufacturer was ever able to license Pactor from SCS. Some tried to reverse-engineer Pactor, with some success with Pactor 1, but no success of which I am aware with Pactor 2. (The HAL attempts to implement "P-Mode" were a failure, it appeared to me.) This further diminished Pactor's popularity to the point where KtoK use of Pactor is as extinct as the Dodo bird in North America at least. I cannot speak for Europe because propagation being what it is these days I can rarely hear or work Europe. When you tell me that Pactor is more common in Europe, I cannot contradict you for this reason. If true, a logical explanation is the fact that SCS is based in Europe and Pactor originated there. Or am I wrong, Demetre? It became impossible to convince anyone (other than mailbox operators) to get an SCS TNC once the sound card modes appeared on the scene, more or less invented by Peter Martinez, one of ham radio's Greats. Since probably all hams had access to a computer, the need for a $500+ TNC vanished since hams had access to a plethora of digital modes merely by interfacing one's radio to the computer. Once I switched over from Pactor to the sound card modes, I discovered that all of my old Pactor buddies had done the same, and Pactor was simply dead except for mailboxes. There may be a lot of American MBOs, as you say. This illustrates the need for all of us to support Mark's fine petition -- to get control of this legion of unattended source of QRM for the benefit and betterment of our hobby and the advancement of the radio art. Despite my support for Mark's fine petition, I suspect that the mailboxes will fade away pretty soon anyway, as boaters and RVers get access to the internet through satellite and Wi Fi rather than the horribly inefficient Winlink system. Heck, you can get internet access via Wi Fi in coffeeshops and Starbucks these days. They are adding Wi Fi capability to boat harbors here in California. This trend will likely spell the end to Winlink. And Pactor. de Roger W6VZV
Re: [digitalradio] Re: QRM on PACTOR PMBOS now from DAVE, Congrats!!!
Demetre SV1UY wrote: > > Hmm OK, > > I hope this anti SCS thing is not going to end to being an > anti-European thing Roger. I get that feeling somehow, since SCS is > not an American company. My dear fellow, I once owned an SCS PTC-II. Very few American hams ever bought one--they never sold well here. Does that sound like the act of an "anti-European?" Please, let us keep the argument at a professional level and not resort to ad hominem attacks of this low nature. > > Also anyone can class your claims againstt Winlink and PACTOR as pure > propaganda. A purely meaningless statement, my friend. I have simply pointed out, as have others, that Winlink and Pactor stations do not listen before transmitting, unlike essentially the entire rest of the amateur community. Since the Winlink/Pactor people acknowledge the truth of this point, I would hardly call it "propaganda." Now, your characterization of this as "The Great Global Amateur Communications System" or something like that might be rightfully characterized as propaganda by some. But not by me, Demetre, not by me. de Roger W6VZV
Re: [digitalradio] Re: QRM on PACTOR PMBOS now from DAVE, Congrats!!!
Jim as far as I know all the hardware for pactor has the same thing. But only for other pactor signals just like what you posted about the packet system. John At 09:34 PM 12/28/2007, you wrote: >I'm not sure what HF Packet BBS's you're talking about but all my >packet tnc's had a carrier detect feature and would not transmit if >one was detected. Was it perfect, heck no! But it was available AND >it was turned on. > >Jim >WA0LYK
Re: [digitalradio] Re: QRM on PACTOR PMBOS now from DAVE, Congrats!!!
Demetre SV1UY wrote: > > You have your opinion and I have mine. Now if you can't be bothered > to look for PACTOR keyboard to keyboard QSOS this is your problem not > mine. When I look I can always find some. You know, it may be that way in Europe. After all, SCS is there. Here in the States there are essentially zero Pactor K-toK qsos. I **did** look for them. For years. But none, sorry. As James Madison once said, facts are stubborn things. >As for Winlink not been an > emergency resource, I have read and still read otherwise in the > radio amateur literature around the world. Yeah, I've read some of this too. Most of it is pure propaganda by people with obvious agendas. Winlink and mailboxes are a negligible contributor to emergency communications. Facts are stubborn things, Demetre. > If you just want to spoil a Great Radio Amateur Global Communication > System Well, far be it from me to spoil a (drum roll) Great Radio Amateur Global Communication System Happy New Year de Roger W6VZV
Re: [digitalradio] Re: QRM on PACTOR PMBOS now from DAVE, Congrats!!!
Demetre SV1UY wrote: > So what you are talking about PACTOR 3 being the only offender is FAR > AWAY FROM THE TRUTH OM. > > There is no system today that has such a DETECTOR you are dreaming > about. My station does. A human operator. > > Finally if you are so adament about such a detector why don't you > write one that works (you already own an SCS MODEM) and give it for > free to the Radio Amateur community? > > I know why. If you did that you would not have anything to whine > about!!! > > 73 de Demetre SV1UY OK, a couple of points. 1. No one is defending W1AW or the other practices that involve transmitting without listening. I happen to think that all such practices are morally wrong and legally questionable. Regrettably, the FCC has already said that W1AW can get away with its broadcasts. A bad call, but there you are. 2. Pactor is far more ubiquitous in its transmit-without-listening practices than anything else on the air. The Pactor community flatly refuses to change its practices, and they routinely QRM innocent QSOs with impunity and indifference. Mark's superb petition will help curb this. 3. I sold my SCS modem because Pactor as a Keyboard-to-Keyboard mode is as dead as Julius Caesar. No matter what a few outliers may say, Pactor is dead as far as ordinary ham radio goes. It is now solely a mailbox mode, used mainly to provide cheap, inefficient internet service to those who are not able to hook up to the usual internet grid. Doesn't sound much like ham radio to me. Other commercial services are a better provider of this capability--it is not appropriate for amateur radio. 4. I am a yachtsman myself. I can attest that very few yachtsman use amateur radio, let alone Pactor, for even a tertiary communications system when at sea. 5. Winlink is largely irrelevant to emergency communications, propaganda to the contrary. Having operated emergency communications in numerous fires and earthquakes, I can attest that Winlink was never a resource. The simplest modes, i.e. FM and SSB, provided the bulk of amateur-supplied communications. Simpler is better. de Roger W6VZV
