Re: [digitalradio] WinDRM Digital Voice

2007-05-13 Thread mrfarm
It would be difficult to pause without notice with DV due to the latency 
issue. This is one of the reasons that I do not expect DV to ever become 
all that popular on HF. And if there are attempts to improve the 
sensitivity and robustness, the latency would have to become even more 
noticeable since I doubt that there is any chance to have wider 
bandwidth modes such as you have on VHF and up with over 6 kHz wide 
signals.

Latency can be acceptable for text modes, but much more problematic with 
voice.
 
DV does not really lend itself to fast break in technique such as used 
on net operation or quick round tables where individuals make rapid back 
and forth comments. Without some major breakthrough, which at this time 
seems unlikely to contravene the laws of physics, HF DV seems destined 
as a niche player, similar to the way AM is still used.

I have been getting a bit concerned with some of the strong statements 
being made lately by some of the more overzealous proponents of digital. 
Based upon the Dayton Hamvention Digital Forum presentations, it is 
getting a bit much, with claims that digital technology is destined to 
replace most analog technology. Because of the many downsides to digital 
technology, this is most unlikely on HF. It may eventually become more 
popular on VHF and higher frequencies due to the allowance of wider 
bandwidth modes.

There are good uses for digital and there are good uses for analog and 
one is not always the best choice over the other.

73,

Rick, KV9U





kd4e wrote:
 Couldn't DV include a automated brief pause every
 1 or 2 min to check for doubling?

 It would be so brief as to be almost indiscernible
 to the op and would trigger a warning of some sort
 only if doubling (defined by certain parameters)
 were detected.

 WDYT?





Re: [digitalradio] WinDRM Digital Voice

2007-05-13 Thread John Becker
At 11:47 AM 5/13/2007, you wrote in part:
This is one of the reasons that I do not expect DV to ever become 
all that popular on HF.

It is doing very well at this time.







Re: [digitalradio] WinDRM Digital Voice

2007-05-12 Thread mrfarm
Here in the northern midwest U.S., we have a great deal of QRN that 
begins in the early evening. It is not always easy to maintain 
comfortable analog voice communications with 100 watt stations during 
the summer months.

When you use 160 what power levels are you running in order to keep the 
S/N ratio above the necessary S/N ratio plus enough reserve to prevent 
loss of data during the inevitable QSB?

Are you using WinDRM for image data or voice or both?

 From listening to DV users on the higher bands, the mode is similar to 
the older AM operations where one station has the frequency for  a while 
and then turns it over to another station. If two stations were 
transmitting at the same time and did not know it (doubling), you might 
not have any communications at all and this could go on for a while if 
there is a long monolog.

It seems that DV will never be able to compete well with analog voice 
due to the limitations of physical science and the ability of analog to 
easily and very quickly switch between stations, similar to the QSK 
ability of CW which probably surpasses and other mode when you have 
savvy operators in a structured net environment.

73,

Rick, KV9U


jr1961bobo wrote:
 I had a couple QSO's on 20 meters with WinDRM but allot of QSB made 
 things difficult. Anyone in the Northeast want to try WinDRM on 160 
 meters? I am starting to call cq on some nights at 9:00 pm Est. on 
 1.990. Since the band usually opens up well after sunset it may be a 
 good place to get a small group of WinDRM users together for a little  
 ragchewing. 


   



Re: [digitalradio] WinDRM Digital Voice

2007-05-12 Thread kd4e
Couldn't DV include a automated brief pause every
1 or 2 min to check for doubling?

It would be so brief as to be almost indiscernible
to the op and would trigger a warning of some sort
only if doubling (defined by certain parameters)
were detected.

WDYT?

  From listening to DV users on the higher bands, the mode is similar to 
 the older AM operations where one station has the frequency for  a while 
 and then turns it over to another station. If two stations were 
 transmitting at the same time and did not know it (doubling), you might 
 not have any communications at all and this could go on for a while if 
 there is a long monolog.
 
 It seems that DV will never be able to compete well with analog voice 
 due to the limitations of physical science and the ability of analog to 
 easily and very quickly switch between stations, similar to the QSK 
 ability of CW which probably surpasses and other mode when you have 
 savvy operators in a structured net environment.
 
 73,
 
 Rick, KV9U



-- 

Thanks!  73, doc, KD4E
Personal: http://bibleseven.com/kd4e.html
Ham QTH: http://mysite.verizon.net/kd4e/


Re: [digitalradio] WinDRM Digital Voice

2007-05-12 Thread John Becker
I don't think it is needed.
I have been on DV for 4 years and have never seen
anyone talk for a min... it just don't happen on DV.
It's just not a long winded mode.

John, W0JAB

At 06:59 PM 5/12/2007, you wrote:
Couldn't DV include a automated brief pause every
1 or 2 min to check for doubling?

It would be so brief as to be almost indiscernible
to the op and would trigger a warning of some sort
only if doubling (defined by certain parameters)
were detected.









Re: [digitalradio] windrm

2007-01-02 Thread Andrew O'Brien

I uploaded the DLL to the files section but then discovered that the melp
dll is copyright protected so I took it down.  There is a way to build the
melp dll file one's self.  I am testing that out tonight, if I can do it
anyone can!

Andy K3UK


On 1/2/07, wb4mnk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


  I need the melp.dll that is used with Windrm. I need this dll where
Windrm will work. I have tried the web site with out any luck down
loading this file. Where might I find this file for download?

73
Art
WB4MNK







--
Andy K3UK
Skype Me :  callto://andyobrien73
www.obriensweb.com


Re: [digitalradio] windrm

2007-01-02 Thread Art
Hi Andy, I have the file now and Windrm is working.

73
Art
WB4MNK
  - Original Message - 
  From: Andrew O'Brien 
  To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2007 7:28 PM
  Subject: Re: [digitalradio] windrm



  I uploaded the DLL to the files section but then discovered that the melp dll 
is copyright protected so I took it down.  There is a way to build the melp dll 
file one's self.  I am testing that out tonight, if I can do it anyone can! 

  Andy K3UK

   
  On 1/2/07, wb4mnk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 
I need the melp.dll that is used with Windrm. I need this dll where 
Windrm will work. I have tried the web site with out any luck down 
loading this file. Where might I find this file for download?

73
Art
WB4MNK






  -- 
  Andy K3UK
  Skype Me :  callto://andyobrien73 
  www.obriensweb.com 

   


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PM


Re: [digitalradio] WinDrm

2006-12-30 Thread Andrew O'Brien

I will upload it to the files section here.

Andy K3UK


On 12/30/06, wb4mnk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


  I am trying to get Windrm setup but can not fine the melp_dll.zip file
and when we try and open we get an error message. I have tried this web
site www.rarewares.org/files/others/melp_dll.zip but for some reason
the web site will not come up. Any suggestions?

Thanks
Art
WB4MNK







--
Andy K3UK
Skype Me :  callto://andyobrien73
www.obriensweb.com


Re: [digitalradio] WinDrm

2006-12-30 Thread Art
Hi Andy, Thanks for up loading the file to the files area but I installed it in 
the windrm folder on the desk top and now have no windrm .exe file so I have no 
clue what I have done. 

73
Art
  - Original Message - 
  From: Andrew O'Brien 
  To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2006 1:29 PM
  Subject: Re: [digitalradio] WinDrm



  I will upload it to the files section here.

  Andy K3UK

   
  On 12/30/06, wb4mnk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 
I am trying to get Windrm setup but can not fine the melp_dll.zip file 
and when we try and open we get an error message. I have tried this web 
site www.rarewares.org/files/others/melp_dll.zip but for some reason 
the web site will not come up. Any suggestions?

Thanks
Art
WB4MNK






  -- 
  Andy K3UK
  Skype Me :  callto://andyobrien73 
  www.obriensweb.com 

   


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  Checked by AVG Free Edition.
  Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.16.0/609 - Release Date: 12/29/2006 
4:48 PM


Re: [digitalradio] WinDrm

2006-12-30 Thread Andrew O'Brien

 Hi Andy, Thanks for up loading the file to the files area but I installed it 
 in the windrm folder on the desk top and now have no windrm .exe file so I 
 have no clue what I have done.


Art, I suggest you download the Windrm again, install it over the old
files in the SAME folder.  the melp DLL should remain and you should
have a fresh exe file.

Andy.


Re: [digitalradio] WinDrm

2006-12-30 Thread Art
Andy, Thanks for the information. I have already deleted the program so when we 
have the time I will give it another shot. Thanks for all your help.

73
Art
WB4MNK
  - Original Message - 
  From: Andrew O'Brien 
  To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2006 4:52 PM
  Subject: Re: [digitalradio] WinDrm


  
   Hi Andy, Thanks for up loading the file to the files area but I installed 
it in the windrm folder on the desk top and now have no windrm .exe file so I 
have no clue what I have done.
  

  Art, I suggest you download the Windrm again, install it over the old
  files in the SAME folder. the melp DLL should remain and you should
  have a fresh exe file.

  Andy.


   


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  Checked by AVG Free Edition.
  Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.16.0/609 - Release Date: 12/29/2006 
4:48 PM


Re: [digitalradio] WinDrm

2006-12-30 Thread w6ids

Well, I tried the link and brought up a page which sez the account
has been suspended.

Howard W6IDS
Richmond, IN

- Original Message - 
From: wb4mnk 
To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2006 1:02 PM
Subject: [digitalradio] WinDrm

 I have tried this web 
site www.rarewares.org/files/others/melp_dll.zip but for some reason 
the web site will not come up. Any suggestions?



RE: [digitalradio] WinDRM and new USA rules?

2006-10-13 Thread John Gleichweit
It's a FAX... ;@)

-- 
John Smokey Behr Gleichweit FF1/EMT, CCNA, MCSE
IPN-CAL023 N6FOG UP Fresno Sub MP183.5 ECV1852
List Owner x6, Moderator x4 CA-OES 51-507
http://smokeybehr.blogspot.com
http://www.myspace.com/smokeybehr

-Original Message-
From: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of kd4e
Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2006 8:42 PM
To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [digitalradio] WinDRM and new USA rules?


Hey, what would they call a picture of a data file?



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RE: [digitalradio] WinDRM and new USA rules?

2006-10-13 Thread DuBose Walt Civ AETC CONS/LGCA
Mark,

If I use uuencode/uudecode on an image, then it becomes ASCII data.  Would that 
be permissable to be sent on the RTTY/Data portion of a band?

Walt/K5YFW

-Original Message-
From: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2006 10:13 PM
To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [digitalradio] WinDRM and new USA rules?



   You can use WinDRM to transmit digital voice and images in the
  Phone/Image subbbands. You can use WinDRM to transmit data in the
  RTTY/Data subbands. 

I don't quite understand Mark's point about using data via something like
WinDRM. What is data? WindDRM sends images and DV, when it us in receive
mode and is decoding a picture it indicates it is receiving data. I
would not expect to be allowed to send a picture in the RTTY/DATA sub-bands.


If you send a file that is not an image, then it can be data.  When 
we use the term digital with reference to part 97 we are referring to 
the second symbol of the ITU emissions designator.  When we use the 
terms data, image, and phone (telephony) we are referring to the 
third symbol of the ITU emissions designator.

I did go back an re-read new definition in part 97.3 c 2 and J2D is 
included in the modes that are limited to 500 Hz.  J2D is when you 
use a TNC or SCS modem connected to the MIC jack or ACCESSORY jack of 
a SSB transmitter.  I would say that PACTOR III is in trouble now.

73,

Mark N5RFX




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Re: [digitalradio] WinDRM and new USA rules?

2006-10-13 Thread KV9U
Many years ago, Peter, TY1PS sent a compressed audio file from Benin to 
the USA and it could have been the first digital file of this type. 
This was done on Clover II since for a short time this was a popular 
digital mode with the Winlink system (not the same as the internet/ham 
radio interface Winlink 2000 system). It seems that someone did ask the 
FCC if this was legal, or if it was too much like broadcasing music, 
and it seems that there were at least some views at the FCC that this 
might be legal to do since it was data.

For those of you who were members of ADRS/IDRA prior to the collapse of 
both organizations, Peter even made a clever program (TY1PS Express) 
that allowed two parties who had this same program to automatically send 
and display a thumbnail of themselves. Unfortunately, this was 
considered borderline data since it had an image and so this never got 
very far. In a few weeks, this techology will be legal here in the U.S. 
It only took, what, about 15 years?

I firmly believe that the only reason that all of this crazy division 
ever occured between image and data was due to the idea that since 
image was a huge transfer of data, it required at least a phone 
bandwidth size pipeline and data data was mostly RTTY which used 
narrower BW's. But to me, all pictures are really only a subset of 
data. Not some separate entity as the rules currently try and delineate.

What really changed things was when digital data became extremely 
wide, e.g., MT-63 and Pactor 3. Once that was permitted to happen, it 
seems to me that any kind of data should have been allowed to be used on 
the non-phone data portions of the bands or else restrict that part of 
the bands to narrow modes only, such as a maximum of 500 Hz.

Perhaps someday the FCC will address this situation with the bandwidth 
proposals? I sure hope so. The only rational approach would be to make 
the current data portions of the bands smaller (except for 80 meters 
where this has already been done), and only allow 500 Hz BW's in that 
area and then allow any mode or content in the phone/wide section.

Anything else, just seems to make things unnecessarily (ridiculously?) 
complicated. The only other tweak would be to decide whether narrow band 
modes could operate in the wide band areas as does CW now in most cases 
(except for 60 meters).

 73,


Rick, KV9U




Joe Veldhuis wrote:

If you sent a text file, that would be considered data. As would, if I
understand correctly, essentially any other kind of file except one
containing some type of sound, image or video.

An interesting question would be, what would an MP3 recording of a PSK31
signal count as?

-Joe, KD8ATU

Andrew O'Brien wrote:
  

I don't quite understand Mark's point about using data via something like 
WinDRM.  What is data?  WindDRM sends images and DV, when it us in receive 
mode and is decoding a picture it indicates it is receiving  data.  I 
would not expect to be allowed to send a picture in the RTTY/DATA sub-bands.




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Re: [digitalradio] WinDRM and new USA rules?

2006-10-13 Thread Danny Douglas
I  need a new ALINCO (or somebodies) Operating Priviliges chart.  This is
all too confusing.  I went and got my Extra decades ago so I wouldnt have to
remember (or care) about all this stuff.

Danny Douglas N7DC
ex WN5QMX ET2US WA5UKR ET3USA
SV0WPP VS6DD N7DC/YV5 G5CTB all
DX 2-6 years each.
moderator  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
- Original Message - 
From: KV9U [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, October 13, 2006 11:50 AM
Subject: Re: [digitalradio] WinDRM and new USA rules?


 Many years ago, Peter, TY1PS sent a compressed audio file from Benin to
 the USA and it could have been the first digital file of this type.
 This was done on Clover II since for a short time this was a popular
 digital mode with the Winlink system (not the same as the internet/ham
 radio interface Winlink 2000 system). It seems that someone did ask the
 FCC if this was legal, or if it was too much like broadcasing music,
 and it seems that there were at least some views at the FCC that this
 might be legal to do since it was data.

 For those of you who were members of ADRS/IDRA prior to the collapse of
 both organizations, Peter even made a clever program (TY1PS Express)
 that allowed two parties who had this same program to automatically send
 and display a thumbnail of themselves. Unfortunately, this was
 considered borderline data since it had an image and so this never got
 very far. In a few weeks, this techology will be legal here in the U.S.
 It only took, what, about 15 years?

 I firmly believe that the only reason that all of this crazy division
 ever occured between image and data was due to the idea that since
 image was a huge transfer of data, it required at least a phone
 bandwidth size pipeline and data data was mostly RTTY which used
 narrower BW's. But to me, all pictures are really only a subset of
 data. Not some separate entity as the rules currently try and delineate.

 What really changed things was when digital data became extremely
 wide, e.g., MT-63 and Pactor 3. Once that was permitted to happen, it
 seems to me that any kind of data should have been allowed to be used on
 the non-phone data portions of the bands or else restrict that part of
 the bands to narrow modes only, such as a maximum of 500 Hz.

 Perhaps someday the FCC will address this situation with the bandwidth
 proposals? I sure hope so. The only rational approach would be to make
 the current data portions of the bands smaller (except for 80 meters
 where this has already been done), and only allow 500 Hz BW's in that
 area and then allow any mode or content in the phone/wide section.

 Anything else, just seems to make things unnecessarily (ridiculously?)
 complicated. The only other tweak would be to decide whether narrow band
 modes could operate in the wide band areas as does CW now in most cases
 (except for 60 meters).

  73,


 Rick, KV9U




 Joe Veldhuis wrote:

 If you sent a text file, that would be considered data. As would, if I
 understand correctly, essentially any other kind of file except one
 containing some type of sound, image or video.
 
 An interesting question would be, what would an MP3 recording of a PSK31
 signal count as?
 
 -Joe, KD8ATU
 
 Andrew O'Brien wrote:
 
 
 I don't quite understand Mark's point about using data via something
like
 WinDRM.  What is data?  WindDRM sends images and DV, when it us in
receive
 mode and is decoding a picture it indicates it is receiving  data.  I
 would not expect to be allowed to send a picture in the RTTY/DATA
sub-bands.
 
 
 
 
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discussion)
 
 
 Yahoo! Groups Links
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 



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Re: [digitalradio] WinDRM and new USA rules?

2006-10-12 Thread Mark Miller

I'm not so sure of that. As I understand it, D means telemetry or
telecommand.


D - Data transmission, telemetry, telecommand

No I am not out to banish Pactor III, but I am wondering why the FCC 
included J2D in the list of 500Hz maximum occupied bandwidth modes.

73,

Mark N5RFX



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Re: [digitalradio] WinDRM and new USA rules?

2006-10-12 Thread John Champa
They try to keep the new regs very general (vague) so they won't have to 
re-write them so often.  Look how long it took for the FCC to out with this 
little bit of drivel! (HI)

73, John - K8OCL


From: kd4e [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com
To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [digitalradio] WinDRM and new USA rules?
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 23:42:14 -0400

Hey, what would they call a picture of a data file?

:-)

Seems we are putting too fine a point on things.

For emergency communications purposes we *need*
to have tested and implemented non-proprietary
modes that are multi-format, data, voice, and
images.

Bureaucrats have once again partially addressed the
issues enough so that they will have work sorting
through the confusion they have created -- it's
sure to justify their paychecks for another year.

Sigh ... doc

  If you sent a text file, that would be considered data. As would, if I
  understand correctly, essentially any other kind of file except one
  containing some type of sound, image or video.
 
  An interesting question would be, what would an MP3 recording of a PSK31
  signal count as?
 
  -Joe, KD8ATU
 
  Andrew O'Brien wrote:
  I don't quite understand Mark's point about using data via something 
like
  WinDRM.  What is data?  WindDRM sends images and DV, when it us in 
receive
  mode and is decoding a picture it indicates it is receiving  data.  I
  would not expect to be allowed to send a picture in the RTTY/DATA 
sub-bands.


--

Thanks!  73,
doc, KD4E
... somewhere in FL
URL:  bibleseven (dot) com




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RE: [digitalradio] WinDRM

2006-10-08 Thread Dave Corio
Title: Message





 I've 
QSY'd up to 7.291 USB due to heavy SSB QRM on 86.


  
  -Original Message-From: 
  digitalradio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On 
  Behalf Of NickSent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 11:55 
  AMTo: digitalradio@yahoogroups.comSubject: 
  [digitalradio] WinDRM
  
  Also on 7.286 and RX/TXing. Zero experience with this app so welcomeany 
  help. Tks Nick KU2A
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Re: [digitalradio] WinDRM voice tonight anyone?

2006-09-27 Thread John Becker
Try 7296 USB. 


At 06:05 PM 9/27/2006, you wrote:
I am interested in trying my first digital voice QSO, using WINDRM, anyone
want to also try it tonight ?



Need a Digital mode QSO? Connect to  Telnet://cluster.dynalias.org

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