RE: 30% Apple
From: discuss-boun...@blu.org [mailto:discuss-boun...@blu.org] On Behalf Of Jerry Feldman David has an iPhone not an Android. I have an ATT Android. You can certainly install any Android app from the Android command line using the adb command. The real issue is that you cannot uninstall the ATT What happens if you download an apk file directly and try to install it? For example... http://android-log-collector.googlecode.com/files/android-log-collector-1.1. 0.apk My favorite way to do that is to download it in my PC, save into dropbox. Run it from dropbox on the phone. I agree it's annoying that you can't uninstall the factory-installed junk. Some of it you wouldn't WANT to uninstall (lest the phone become unstable) ... But I'm sure I could do without Metro EZ Wifi... And Boingo... and a few others. But all in all, I don't have any real reason to care. ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: 30% Apple
On 02/24/2011 07:59 AM, Edward Ned Harvey wrote: From: discuss-boun...@blu.org [mailto:discuss-boun...@blu.org] On Behalf Of Jerry Feldman David has an iPhone not an Android. I have an ATT Android. You can certainly install any Android app from the Android command line using the adb command. The real issue is that you cannot uninstall the ATT What happens if you download an apk file directly and try to install it? For example... http://android-log-collector.googlecode.com/files/android-log-collector-1.1. 0.apk My favorite way to do that is to download it in my PC, save into dropbox. Run it from dropbox on the phone. I agree it's annoying that you can't uninstall the factory-installed junk. Some of it you wouldn't WANT to uninstall (lest the phone become unstable) ... But I'm sure I could do without Metro EZ Wifi... And Boingo... and a few others. But all in all, I don't have any real reason to care. Ned, please reply to the list only. Most decent email programs have ReplyList buttons, at least Thunderbird and Claws do. You can install apks by using the Android command line. I have not needed to do that, but I am planning on writing an app that accesses the Google Calendar. -- Jerry Feldman g...@blu.org Boston Linux and Unix PGP key id: 537C5846 PGP Key fingerprint: 3D1B 8377 A3C0 A5F2 ECBB CA3B 4607 4319 537C 5846 ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: 30% Apple
On Feb 24, 2011, at 10:14 AM, Edward Ned Harvey wrote: I understand that. Question still stands. What happens if you try? The exact same thing that happens on every other Android device with Unknown sources unchecked. --Rich P. ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: 30% Apple
On Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 11:24 PM, Edward Ned Harvey b...@nedharvey.com wrote: Since I hear a number of people here using android on t-mobile or att, I'll just mention... I recently switched from t-mobile to metropcs, and I love it. Unlimited everything for $50/mo (including taxes and everything) and no contracts. Yes there is some junk preinstalled, but nothing I care to root my phone for... And I happily install all kinds of stuff from any source I can find... Yup, I love it, and I can't wait till my wife's contract on t-mobile expires so she can switch too. ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss How would you compare price and coverage of MetroPCS to T-Mobile's prepaid $100 for 1000 minutes per year, whichever (minutes or money) is used first? Thanks. Scott ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: 30% Apple
Edward Ned Harvey wrote: Since I hear a number of people here using android on t-mobile or att, I'll just mention... I recently switched from t-mobile to metropcs, and I love it. Unlimited everything for $50/mo (including taxes and everything) and no contracts. I was intrigued by that, but then discovered they are a CDMA carrier. My phone, which I paid my money for, won't work with them. Sadly. I like CDMA, it is a very cool technology, but GSM et al, is too compelling, the Nexus One is GSM, etc. My aesthetic attraction to how CDMA works is reassured, the GSM world is moving that direction. -kb, the Kent whose retirement saving made a lot of money on Qualcomm stock back when. ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: 30% Apple
On 02/22/2011 09:17 PM, David Kramer wrote: Since that was both shocking and a big problem for me, I did do a lot of fact checking when I made the initial decision two years ago, including berating several ATT salesdroids. I verified it was still the case before replacing my non-waterproof iPhone 3GS, and that's still the case with their later Android offerings. As far as exploring the software options for the Android, they make it pretty hard unless you already have the phone. Now there's enough around you could probably just Google, but not so much two years ago. Basically, the software options for the Android last year when I bought mine and now are pretty broad. I think when I bought my Backflip there were about 5000 apps in the Marketplace with more being added on a daily basis. I was initially told by a sales droid that there would be a cold day in Hell before ATT would sell and Android. Most of the employees in the cell phone stores really do not know the phones very well unless they actually owned one. I had a Blackberry that was off contract. There were a couple of things that were very important to me: 1. I had nearly 400 notes (formerly Palm Memos). I could not access these notes on Linux when I had the Blackberry. 2. Calendar - I used Pimlico Software's DateBk5, for my calendar on Blackberry and they did not have an Android App at the time. While I was a contractor I used the calendar to record my hours. I currently use the Google Calendar app along with a Calendar Widget. I'm considering buying Pimcal. One of the things I likes about DateBk was the ability to search. Note that Pimcal does not need to be connected to Google. 3. Contacts - I want to have my contacts available on my SmartPhone, Windows at work and Linux (as well as the Color Nook) Basically, the Backflip is certainly underpowered when compared to some of the more recent phones, such as the Samsung Galaxy S series or the HTC Aria. (on ATT), but I get a good 3G connection and relatively fast downloads. The only complaints I have with the Backflip is that sometimes while in phone mode the screen blanks intermittently, I can't read it in strong sunlight (most phones). Compared to my Blackberry it is much much better, but I will probably get something like the Galaxy in a few months when they are available with 4G/LTE. The Galaxy line is interesting because it has an anti-glare screen. I also considered the iPhone because at the time it was certainly a better product, but I wanted my notes, Calendar, and Contacts available on my home Linux system. The iPhone was also considerably more expensive. The Backflip cost me $50 + 2 year contract (there was a $50 instant rebate and a $100 mail in rebate). ATT sent me a rebate card, and I think I left 1 or 2 cents on it. Question for David: non-waterproof iPhone 3GS did you ruin your iPhone? -- Jerry Feldman g...@blu.org Boston Linux and Unix PGP key id: 537C5846 PGP Key fingerprint: 3D1B 8377 A3C0 A5F2 ECBB CA3B 4607 4319 537C 5846 ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
RE: 30% Apple
From: discuss-boun...@blu.org [mailto:discuss-boun...@blu.org] On Behalf Of Scott Ehrlich How would you compare price and coverage of MetroPCS to T-Mobile's prepaid $100 for 1000 minutes per year, whichever (minutes or money) is used first? The only think I know about t-mobile's plan is what you wrote above. If you barely ever use it and don't text and don't use data, then it's probably a good choice. I like my current metropcs plan because I use it for everything all the time, and it costs less than the t-mobile plan I had before, which was $80/mo (plus overages, taxes, and usage) for a family 1500min plan (two lines) with no text and no data and a 2yr contract. So far I don't notice any difference in coverage, but metropcs says 90% of America, while t-mobile says 96%. ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: 30% Apple
On 2/23/2011 6:06 AM, Scott Ehrlich wrote: How would you compare price and coverage of MetroPCS to T-Mobile's prepaid $100 for 1000 minutes per year, whichever (minutes or money) is used first? Comparing apples and oranges. The prepaid T-Mobile plan is great for people who don't use the phone much. My T-Mobile prepaid phone is a backup to my Sprint phone, in case I visit places with poor Sprint service and for travel to Canada (where I can use it expensively but it does work). The phone is also unlocked, so I can put in a different SIM for international travel. By the way, if you don't use all the minutes in a year they stay on your account so long as you buy another batch of minutes before they expire. T-Mobile also has a $50/month prepaid plan with unlimited talk and text plus 150MB data, and a $70 plan with unlimited talk and text plus 2GB data; those would be more directly comparable to MetroPCS. MetroPCS service is $40/month for non-smartphone devices, $50 for smartphones, and $60/month for BlackBerries. For 4G smartphones you can pay $50/month for unlimited voice and text plus 1GB data, or $60/month to add unlimited data. MetroPCS has started to deploy LTE 4G data service in some places. Otherwise their network is only 2G (they never deployed 3G data service at all) so data will be VERY slow, which means that the unlimited service you get with the $50 non-4G plan will be of limited use, as will the $150 Android phone they're offering. The 4G Android phone is $400, which is really pricey for a phone with only an HVGA (480x320) screen. If you want a smartphone, another option to look at is Virgin Mobile. They have plans from $25/month (300 talk minutes plus unlimited text and data) to $60/month (unlimited everything; they recently announced they will throttle data over 5GB/month on their USB data devices and that might apply to smartphones as well), and the data service is reasonably fast 3G. They have a $150 Android phone (the Optimus V), which isn't a top of the line device but it's a reasonable deal for what you get. I tried out MetroPCS for a month when they first came to Boston (almost two years ago now). At the time I found their service substandard with poor voice quality and lots of dropped calls. I believe that they have built out a lot more infrastructure since then, so service now may be better. The REAL dealbreaker for me was their dysfunctional voicemail system; the command keys were dead while a message was playing so you had to listen to the entirety of each message before you could delete it. ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
RE: 30% Apple
From: discuss-boun...@blu.org [mailto:discuss-boun...@blu.org] On Behalf Of Jerry Feldman basis. I was initially told by a sales droid that there would be a cold day in Hell before ATT would sell and Android. Most of the employees in the cell phone stores really do not know the phones very well I had a Best Buy sales dufus tell me the 16G flash card would take better photos than the 8G flash card. ;-) ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
RE: 30% Apple
From: discuss-boun...@blu.org [mailto:discuss-boun...@blu.org] On Behalf Of Mark J Dulcey better. The REAL dealbreaker for me was their dysfunctional voicemail system; the command keys were dead while a message was playing so you had to listen to the entirety of each message before you could delete it. Actually, while in a message, 1 is rewind, 3 is forward. If you hit 11 it jumps to start, and 33 jumps to end. So instant delete of message would be 337. But I use Google Voice anyway, so I don't care about that. This is straying pretty far from the subject title, but GV is definitely one of the best things about Android. Depending on how you configure it, if you want this, you just install GV app, and for all intents and purposes, your GV number completely replaces your mobile number. All your inbound/outbound calls are seamlessly routed through your GV account. If you have a non-unlimited text plan, that can really save you, but if you have unlimited text (as I do), there are other reasons I care about this. Because when I'm at home or in the office, or at my family's houses out in the woods of Maine with no coverage... I set GV to simulring wherever I happen to be. So I can answer on landline quality... Also have a SIP voice number, so as long as I have wifi, out in the woods or in another country, then my regular phone number works just as well as it ever did. Not to mention international calling rates. (My wife is Indonesian, so you can imagine those phone bills.) ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: 30% Apple
On 02/23/2011 09:22 AM, Edward Ned Harvey wrote: I had a Best Buy sales dufus tell me the 16G flash card would take better photos than the 8G flash card. ;-) Yeah :-). The sales people are generally not that technically knowledgeable. I found people at the ATT store in Needham (this is a company store) that were knowledgeable, and others that were totally clueless. Same goes for Comcast customer service, and probably all other outfits. BTW: Please reply to the list or reply to the sender, BUT NOT BOTH.' -- Jerry Feldman g...@blu.org Boston Linux and Unix PGP key id: 537C5846 PGP Key fingerprint: 3D1B 8377 A3C0 A5F2 ECBB CA3B 4607 4319 537C 5846 ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
RE: 30% Apple
From: discuss-boun...@blu.org [mailto:discuss-boun...@blu.org] On Behalf Of Jarod Wilson Just for the sake of clarity, most of this GV functionality is not unique to Android. You can do the bulk of the same things on multiple mobile platforms. http://www.google.com/mobile/voice/ If you know nothing more, you look at that page, and you'll think it works just as well on iphone as it does on android. Which is not the case. On the android, just by installing and configuring it, I have effectively replaced my mobile phone number with a more powerful phone number. It's all integrated and seamless, excellent. On iphone, you have to launch the app, and dial from it, which will launch the regular dialer and start pushing its buttons for you... And your call history doesn't appear in the regular call history, you again have to go into the app to see the real history... etc etc. I can't speak about blackberry or windows though... Maybe they're as good or better. ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
RE: 30% Apple
From: discuss-boun...@blu.org [mailto:discuss-boun...@blu.org] On Behalf Of Edward Ned Harvey From: discuss-boun...@blu.org [mailto:discuss-boun...@blu.org] On Behalf Of David Kramer To the best of my knowledge, and certainly a year or so ago when I had to make this decision, stock Android calendar/contacts/etc would not sync with any desktop app without the data going through some web- based service. Not under Windows and certainly not under Linux. I don't know because I don't do that. I happily sync to my exchange google accounts. What would you like to do, sync via USB or wifi or bluetooth or something? Direct to what applications? Outlook or something else? I never saw any reply about what specifically you wanted, so I just guessed you want to sync calendar, addressbook, etc via USB. Perhaps these all sprung up in the last year, but just by googling for a couple of minutes, I came across half a dozen. Companionlink, DejaOffice, MyLink, MyPhoneExplorer, android-sync.com ... ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
RE: 30% Apple
From: discuss-boun...@blu.org [mailto:discuss-boun...@blu.org] On Behalf Of David Kramer ATT modifies their Android phones so you can't install software from anywhere else What would be the motivation for ATT to do such a thing? Does this statement warrant a fact-check? ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: 30% Apple
On Feb 22, 2011, at 9:51 AM, Edward Ned Harvey wrote: What would be the motivation for ATT to do such a thing? Control. Does this statement warrant a fact-check? http://androidcommunity.com/att-android-owners-can-now-side-load-apps-20100722/ Generally, ask Google about android and sideload. --Rich P. ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: 30% Apple
On 02/22/2011 09:51 AM, Edward Ned Harvey wrote: From: discuss-boun...@blu.org [mailto:discuss-boun...@blu.org] On Behalf Of David Kramer ATT modifies their Android phones so you can't install software from anywhere else What would be the motivation for ATT to do such a thing? Does this statement warrant a fact-check? You can install software from the Google marketplace, or you can develop an application using the SDK and install it on the phone. Additionally, I have installed an app using the QIC code on an application's web site. However, ATT Androids come with some applications preinstalled, such as Yahoo search, but I now have Google Search as the default search and Dolphin browser as the default browser. I am running on Android 2.1 on a non-rooted Android. For instance, to install Opera, you go to the Opera web site, http://www.opera.com/mobile/download/, and scan the QIC code, but that brings up a browser in the Android, but as I mentioned, I have installed apps directly from the QIC code. Additionally, while the ATT Navigator app is installed permanently on my Android, I was easily able to install Google Maps with full navigation capabilities. -- Jerry Feldman g...@blu.org Boston Linux and Unix PGP key id: 537C5846 PGP Key fingerprint: 3D1B 8377 A3C0 A5F2 ECBB CA3B 4607 4319 537C 5846 ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: 30% Apple
On 02/22/2011 10:09 AM, Dan Ritter wrote: David has an ATT Android phone. He's competent to make such a proclamation. Also, it has been widely reported in Engadget, Gizmodo, Ars Technica, blah, blah, blah. If you wanted a fact check, why didn't you Google for one? Relevant terms could be ATT Android disable sideload You would also find that there are several ways around, ranging in severity from use the adb dev tool to load via USB to root your Android. David has an iPhone not an Android. I have an ATT Android. You can certainly install any Android app from the Android command line using the adb command. The real issue is that you cannot uninstall the ATT preinstalled apps, such as ATT Nav. And under Android 2.1 as I mentioned I was able to replace the default Yahoo search with Google, although I was able to add Google search before 2.1 was available for my phone. -- Jerry Feldman g...@blu.org Boston Linux and Unix PGP key id: 537C5846 PGP Key fingerprint: 3D1B 8377 A3C0 A5F2 ECBB CA3B 4607 4319 537C 5846 ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: 30% Apple
On Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 10:47:11AM -0500, Jerry Feldman wrote: On 02/22/2011 10:09 AM, Dan Ritter wrote: David has an ATT Android phone. He's competent to make such a proclamation. David has an iPhone not an Android. I have an ATT Android. You can certainly install any Android app from the Android command line using the adb command. The real issue is that you cannot uninstall the ATT preinstalled apps, such as ATT Nav. And under Android 2.1 as I mentioned I was able to replace the default Yahoo search with Google, although I was able to add Google search before 2.1 was available for my phone. Whoops, my mistake. David, did you have an Android from ATT and then trade it, or is that my imagination? -dsr- -- http://tao.merseine.nu/~dsr/eula.html is hereby incorporated by reference. You can't defend freedom by getting rid of it. ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: 30% Apple
On 2/22/2011 11:42 AM, Kent Borg wrote: I have heard that T-Mobile is good about unlocking phones they sell. Once someone has been a customer for awhile and they think you aren't going to walk and refuse to honor the contract, if you go in and say I'll be traveling to Europe and want to use a foreign SIM... they will unlock it. I have not verified this myself, but I have read such things... I have a prepaid T-Mobile phone and they cheerfully supplied the unlock code. (And I still have the T-Mobile service for it; I wanted the unlock for international travel.) T-Mobile's official policy from their web site: SIM Unlock Code For information on the SIM Unlock Code, refer to the following: If you purchased a wireless phone from T-Mobile, your phone has been programmed with a SIM lock which will prevent the phone from operating with other compatible wireless telephone carrier’s services. If you wish to use the phone with the service of another wireless telephone carrier, you must enter a numeric SIM Unlock Code to unlock the phone. For customers with a T-Mobile Postpaid Plan, T-Mobile will provide the SIM Unlock Code upon request to eligible customers, provided the requesting customer has a minimum of 40 days of active service with T-Mobile. For customers with a T-Mobile Prepaid Plan, T-Mobile will provide the SIM Unlock Code upon request to eligible customers, provided the requesting customer has a minimum of 60 days of active service with T-Mobile and either a Prepaid Plan account balance of at least $10.00 or a prior refill within the last 30 days. T-Mobile will provide the SIM Unlock Code upon request to eligible former customers, provided that T-Mobile has such code or can obtain it from the manufacturer. You may request the SIM Unlock Code for your phone, together with instructions for entering the code, by calling T-Mobile customer care at 1-800-937-8997. ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
RE: 30% Apple
Since I hear a number of people here using android on t-mobile or att, I'll just mention... I recently switched from t-mobile to metropcs, and I love it. Unlimited everything for $50/mo (including taxes and everything) and no contracts. Yes there is some junk preinstalled, but nothing I care to root my phone for... And I happily install all kinds of stuff from any source I can find... Yup, I love it, and I can't wait till my wife's contract on t-mobile expires so she can switch too. ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: 30% Apple
On 02/18/2011 11:41 PM, David Kramer wrote: On 02/18/2011 11:29 AM, Jerry Feldman wrote: On 02/17/2011 11:36 PM, Edward Ned Harvey wrote: From: discuss-boun...@blu.org [mailto:discuss-boun...@blu.org] On Behalf Of David Kramer Android is simply not an option for me until they get their head (and my data) out of the clouds and back on my own computer. Explain that? I am an android user, and I have no experience that I can relate to your comment above. Things like gmail, google calendar, address book are in the Google cloud. You don't have to use the cloud-based stuff, If the calendar/address/etc apps only sync with Google, how do you use those apps without using Google? Type in all your information in on the phone and never back it up? Just use it as a dumb phone? Are there other Android calendar/address/etc apps that sync with some desktop app(s), and are available on Android Market (since ATT modifies their Android phones so you can't install software from anywhere else)? but one really nice advantage is you don't have to sync your data by physically plugging in the Smartphone. Yes, I realize I look at this different from most people. It continues to amaze me that people who spend a lot of time hardening their Linux boxes and use PGP keys on their email simply hand all their sensitive information willingly to commercial third parties, but I realize that it is so. I would rather have to plug a cable into my phone to back it up to my computer than have bikini-clad vixens lovingly convey it to somebody else's. But I don't always have to. Many of the apps I use can wirelessly sync or transfer files. Basically, the old way to sync your smartphone with a physical PC has its benefits and drawbacks. I also use Evernote. One of the main reasons I switched to Evernote was that I could easily migrate the 400 notes I had that I originally used on the Palm, then Blackberry. This syncs with Evernote. But, as I mentioned there are a number of Android apps that store data locally on the micosd, and you can easily get at those. With the plethora of apps for the Android, I know there are different email clients as well as addressbooks. Fliq Calendar syncs with Outlook. So, if you really don't want to use the Google cloud, you don't have to, you just need to look around for the apps that meet your needs. When you were looking for a Smartphone, one of the other requirements was keyboard size, and many of the Androids are as large as the iPhone. In my case, I wanted a Smartphone where I could access all my data exclusively from Linux, and the Android meets my needs, but the data is replicated on the various clouds. -- Jerry Feldman g...@blu.org Boston Linux and Unix PGP key id: 537C5846 PGP Key fingerprint: 3D1B 8377 A3C0 A5F2 ECBB CA3B 4607 4319 537C 5846 ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: 30% Apple
On Feb 19, 2011, at 8:19 AM, Jerry Feldman wrote: But the real issue is that there carriers are each using different network protocols and frequencies which mean hardware. The flip side is what manufacturers have to do to support multiple carriers with a single device. One option is to manufacture different models of the same device. Motorola does this with the RAZR and KRZR phones. They're the same shell and mostly the same innards, but Verizon's models have a CDMA baseband while T-Mobile's have a GSM baseband. The other option is to use a multi-network baseband. Apple is moving in this direction with iPhone. On the one hand, this makes for a higher manufacturing cost per unit; on the other hand, it means a single model line for the device which should improve line production costs due to scale. --Rich P. ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: 30% Apple
On Feb 19, 2011, at 10:42 AM, Anthony Gabrielson wrote: On Feb 19, 2011, at 10:10 AM, Richard Pieri wrote: On Feb 19, 2011, at 8:19 AM, Jerry Feldman wrote: But the real issue is that there carriers are each using different network protocols and frequencies which mean hardware. The flip side is what manufacturers have to do to support multiple carriers with a single device. One option is to manufacture different models of the same device. Motorola does this with the RAZR and KRZR phones. They're the same shell and mostly the same innards, but Verizon's models have a CDMA baseband while T-Mobile's have a GSM baseband. The other option is to use a multi-network baseband. Apple is moving in this direction with iPhone. On the one hand, this makes for a higher manufacturing cost per unit; on the other hand, it means a single model line for the device which should improve line production costs due to scale. And if consumers are lucky, a single model that can be used on both ATT and Verizon's network, i.e., the ability to switch carriers and keep using the exact same iPhone. If I read the spec correctly I think Apple is also doing this with iPhone 4b with Qualcomm's chipset. The chipset in the iPhone 4 for Verizon is indeed both GSM and CDMA capable, but only the CDMA bits are wired up, and there's no sim card slot, so the device can't be used on ATT's network. -- Jarod Wilson ja...@wilsonet.com ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: 30% Apple
A flame for flame's sake - some tweets by Jon Lech Johansen (DVD Jon) @jonlech The whining about Apple's 30% cut is getting tiring. Why don't publishers offer their service via Safari and handle billing themselves? Oh right, because that would be an inferior user experience and they don't have 160+ million CCs on file so they would get less customers. In summary: they want to leach off Apple's infrastructure investment while keeping most of the revenue. http://twitter.com/#!/jonlech ... Not that I necessarily agree, I just hadn't expected him to be so pro closed business model. Dan -- Dan O'Donovan Sent with Sparrow ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: 30% Apple
On 02/19/2011 11:39 PM, Richard Pieri wrote: On Feb 19, 2011, at 11:00 PM, David Kramer wrote: Uhm, no. From what I understand, any company that tries to work around this policy by charging through content delivered to the IOS device through other means won't get their app approved. If it was a choice, the developers wouldn't be so mad. This is exactly why Sony's Reader app was rejected. It isn't developers in general who are angry about this. It's Big Content, the ones who already have their own locked-down stores and distribution channels, who see Apple's rules as the direct threat to their business models that they are. And incidentally streaming radio outfits like Last.fm and Pandora who may be getting shafted accidentally. I am interested in how this does play out for their sakes. Sony can die in a fire for all I care, but Pandora and Last.fm don't deserve to be casualties in this. Yes, Sony can drown in a mountain of malware-infected MemoryStick Pros and MiniDiscs. But not all Big Content is evil. ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
RE: 30% Apple
From: discuss-boun...@blu.org [mailto:discuss-boun...@blu.org] On Behalf Of David Kramer To the best of my knowledge, and certainly a year or so ago when I had to make this decision, stock Android calendar/contacts/etc would not sync with any desktop app without the data going through some web-based service. Not under Windows and certainly not under Linux. I don't know because I don't do that. I happily sync to my exchange google accounts. What would you like to do, sync via USB or wifi or bluetooth or something? Direct to what applications? Outlook or something else? If it's going to sync without any cloud services involved, there will need to be an app on the PC that connects over wifi, bluetooth, or usb... Or else there will need to be a server on the PC, and a sync app in the phone which is configured to connect to the PC server. I don't mind looking for one briefly... It is certainly much easier to find apps in the phone than it is to find the same app using the computer and internet. Just what most people do, I think. Is there any specific requirement or subset of the above you care about? It is something most people don't care about, so it's entirely possible that there may not have been sufficient demand for anybody to create such an app... BTW, why do you care? ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: 30% Apple
Just curious, is it possible to get apps to install on an iPhone from a non-Apple store? If so, can the non-Apple store be made the default store when looking for apps? If not, it looks like Apple is both selling the razor and the blades (for those that don't know this is referring back to Gillette's old technique of giving away razors then selling the proprietary blades, back in the 'old days'). ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: 30% Apple
Hi Jack, Jailbreaking the iphone will give you the ability to install apps not sold/distributed in the App Store. Unfortunately, and mostly because jailbreaking is not mainstream, the apps distributed to a jailbroken phone aren't as smooth running (if they run at all) as those found in the App Store. For example, I jailbroke my iphone a few months ago and found that because the firmware version was too high on my phone many of the apps (the terminal command prompt, wifi hotspot) simply wouldn't load or in some cases wouldn't even install. Because there is no real competition among app stores using the iPhone a lot of the 3rd party apps aren't very polished. On Fri, Feb 18, 2011 at 8:02 AM, Jack Coats j...@coats.org wrote: Just curious, is it possible to get apps to install on an iPhone from a non-Apple store? If so, can the non-Apple store be made the default store when looking for apps? If not, it looks like Apple is both selling the razor and the blades (for those that don't know this is referring back to Gillette's old technique of giving away razors then selling the proprietary blades, back in the 'old days'). ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: 30% Apple
http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/gadgets/news/confessions-of-an-apple-store-employee?click=pp The other annoying topic of conversation is customers looking for unlocked iPhones. We usually have to tell them that if they unlock their iPhone, it won't work, he says. That it's going to be like a $700 paperweight, and that the antenna will fry itself on T-Mobile. Of course, that's not true, but that's what we tell them. One of the topics on this thread was buying a phone without a contract. I'm not sure if it was really mentioned, but of course a phone w/o a contract is not an unlocked phone. In this case you are stuck with ATT if you buy an iPhone, you can't choose to use T-Mobile. Are there other situations where you pay full price for a phone, but still are required to use it with a certain carrier? Maybe the Google Phone with T-Mobile? ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: 30% Apple
On 02/18/2011 11:29 AM, Jerry Feldman wrote: On 02/17/2011 11:36 PM, Edward Ned Harvey wrote: From: discuss-boun...@blu.org [mailto:discuss-boun...@blu.org] On Behalf Of David Kramer Android is simply not an option for me until they get their head (and my data) out of the clouds and back on my own computer. Explain that? I am an android user, and I have no experience that I can relate to your comment above. Things like gmail, google calendar, address book are in the Google cloud. You don't have to use the cloud-based stuff, If the calendar/address/etc apps only sync with Google, how do you use those apps without using Google? Type in all your information in on the phone and never back it up? Just use it as a dumb phone? Are there other Android calendar/address/etc apps that sync with some desktop app(s), and are available on Android Market (since ATT modifies their Android phones so you can't install software from anywhere else)? but one really nice advantage is you don't have to sync your data by physically plugging in the Smartphone. Yes, I realize I look at this different from most people. It continues to amaze me that people who spend a lot of time hardening their Linux boxes and use PGP keys on their email simply hand all their sensitive information willingly to commercial third parties, but I realize that it is so. I would rather have to plug a cable into my phone to back it up to my computer than have bikini-clad vixens lovingly convey it to somebody else's. But I don't always have to. Many of the apps I use can wirelessly sync or transfer files. ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: 30% Apple
On 02/17/2011 09:06 AM, Chris O'Connell wrote: This cost is simply going to be handed down to the consumer. Unfortunately, Apple is a very greedy company. They already have HUGE mark ups on all of their hardware. Remember right before the IPAD was released one of the higher ups at Apple said We are prepared to be nimble with our pricing if the IPAD doesn't sell. Well, that right there should say something about the markup on the IPAD. Their laptops are much the same (which is sad since I love the Macbook Pro line). I personally think 30% is way to high. Perhaps 10-15% would be more reasonable, but Apple is huge and most companies are probably just going to along with this. Personally I love that they are charging 30%. I dislike the stranglehold they keep on their platform, so if they want to shoot themselves in the foot, I'm all for it. Apple isn't as big as Amazon, and I think there is going to be some major pushback from the large content providers. And as android becomes a viable contender (doing to apple /exactly/ what microsoft did to apple in the 80s), I think Apple is going to find their bargaining position isn't as strong as it was even a year ago. Yes, Apple is greedy. But fortunately for us Amazon is greedy too. So is Google. Companies can't stand third-parties getting a cut from their core products. Case in point: American Airlines has been de-listed from Expedia because AA was looking at how Southwest sells all their tickets themselves, and told Expedia that they didn't want to pay their surcharge anymore. So I say just sit back and enjoy the fireworks while these big guys duke it out. Will 'we the consumers' be worse off if you can no longer buy stuff from amazon on your Apple products? Depends on your point of view. IMO, anything that makes proprietary platforms weaker is good for consumers in the long run. Do I think it will actually play out that way? Hard to say. There is a delicate balance, since Amazon has it's own walled garden it's trying to promote around it's proprietary-format ebooks. I hope they both lose, at least from the point of view of their walled gardens succeeding in vendor-lock-in and open source lock-out... Matt ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: 30% Apple
On Feb 17, 2011, at 9:06 AM, Chris O'Connell wrote: This cost is simply going to be handed down to the consumer. Let's put this into context: Apple currently takes 30% from all App Store sales. The rest goes to the developer. This is actually a pretty good deal for developers, especially the small, independent developers who don't have a high-profile distribution chain of their own. Apple is now applying this 30% take to purchases made from Apple's store from within applications. This is not, in and of itself, any different from the application sales skim. This is not what content providers are bitching about. What they are bitching about is the requirement that any application that can purchase content from within itself must make that content purchasable through Apple's storefront and must do so at the same or better price point as the developer's own storefront. The prototypical example is Sony's Reader application since that is what brought all this to the fore. In order to support in-app purchases of Sony Reader books, Sony must sell those same books through Apple's storefront, and Sony must sell those books at the same price as it sells through its own store, or at a lower price. It's not the 30% skim that they hate. It's the requirement that they sell through Apple's storefront that they hate. --Rich P. ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: 30% Apple
I personally think 30% is way to high. Perhaps 10-15% would be more reasonable, but Apple is huge and most companies are probably just going to along with this. Content publishers have been getting a free ride on the gravy train. If they don't like it, they can get off. It's also worth noting that Apple seldom make choices that result in a loss of experience for Apple or their customers - the only people who will lose out here are Mr. R. Murdoch et al. And do I care? It's also nice to read that Apple are refusing to pass subscriber's personal info on to publishers - those are valuable freebees for the publisher that aren't often used to the advantage of the subscriber. -- Dan O'Donovan ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: 30% Apple
Matthew Gillen wrote: Apple isn't as big as Amazon Depending on how you look at it. In book sales, maybe not, but Apple's market capitalization is $331 billion. Amazon is $84 billion. Mighty Google is only $200 billion. The book publishers all seem to be private, but I suspect they are teeny-tiny in comparison. Time-Warner, with lots of properties, is worth only $40 billion. Barnes and Noble is only worth $1 billion. As of October Apple had over $50 billion in cash, in August it was only $45 billion. They had a good Christmas, they probably have a lot more today. Apple is *big*. -kb ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: 30% Apple
On 02/17/2011 10:13 AM, Dan O'Donovan wrote: It's also worth noting that Apple seldom make choices that result in a loss of experience for ... their customers Really? Does iTunes/iPod support open formats like Ogg or Flac? No. Sure, you can replace the firmware on your ipod with rockbox or the like, but that's not exactly the Apple experience, is it? I would argue that the very existence of projects like rockbox (at least it's i-device ports) and the various IPhone jailbreaking efforts point to the fact that Apple /does/ sacrifice user-experience for the sake of their own business interests. I'm not saying Apple is any worse than any other company, I'm just saying they aren't really any different from any other company. It's also nice to read that Apple are refusing to pass subscriber's personal info on to publishers - those are valuable freebees for the publisher that aren't often used to the advantage of the subscriber. Sorry to be cynical again, but Facebook and Google have similar policies (facebook just sucks at actually enforcing the policy). Why? Not because they are being benevolent dictators. It's because they are realizing how valuable that information is; all of these companies are getting into the content-delivery business, and they don't want to share this valuable info with their competition (i.e. other content providers). They just word it in their press-releases as if they are doing consumers a favor. It has far more to do with maintaining their walled garden than it does about consumer rights... Matt ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: 30% Apple
On 2/17/2011 10:03 AM, Jarod Wilson wrote: And yet, nobody else seems to have a truly competitive tablet for less than the iPad... Of course they don't. Apple can price the iPad at an unprofitable level, just as the manufacturers of game consoles do, because they have the 30% app and subscription tax as part of their revenue stream. Makers of Android devices can't do that because Google (or the operator of an alternative app store such as Amazon) gets the revenue from app sales, not the device manufacturer. Besides, Android owners don't buy nearly as many apps; sales on the Android market are dominated by free apps. ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: 30% Apple
I remember hearing about this same sort of ratio regarding the ipod. There are some RD and advertising expenses of course, but this still proves that the prices could come way down if Apple saw fit (as they did with their notebook line a couple of years ago). --chris On Thu, Feb 17, 2011 at 12:35 PM, Ben Eisenbraun b...@klatsch.org wrote: On Thu, Feb 17, 2011 at 12:21:17PM -0500, Mark J Dulcey wrote: On 2/17/2011 10:03 AM, Jarod Wilson wrote: And yet, nobody else seems to have a truly competitive tablet for less than the iPad... Of course they don't. Apple can price the iPad at an unprofitable level, I suppose they could do that. But they don't. http://gadgetwise.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/04/08/whats-an-ipad-cost-to-build/ -ben -- the computer is a moron.peter drucker ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: 30% Apple
On Feb 17, 2011, at 10:56 AM, Matthew Gillen wrote: On 02/17/2011 10:13 AM, Dan O'Donovan wrote: It's also worth noting that Apple seldom make choices that result in a loss of experience for ... their customers Really? Does iTunes/iPod support open formats like Ogg or Flac? No. Do most (non-lug-subscribing) users care that relatively esoteric formats aren't supported? I'm going to go with No. Sure, you can replace the firmware on your ipod with rockbox or the like, but that's not exactly the Apple experience, is it? Does Ogg or Flac playback decode in hardware or software? If its in software, well, that's a compelling reason for not supporting it right there -- it'll slaughter battery life. I would argue that the very existence of projects like rockbox (at least it's i-device ports) and the various IPhone jailbreaking efforts point to the fact that Apple /does/ sacrifice user-experience for the sake of their own business interests. Is supporting more things badly really better for most (non-lug-subscribing) users than doing less things very well? -- Jarod Wilson ja...@wilsonet.com ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: 30% Apple
Kent Borg wrote: Matthew Gillen wrote: Apple isn't as big as Amazon Depending on how you look at it. In book sales, maybe not, but Apple's market capitalization is $331 billion. Amazon is $84 billion. Mighty Google is only $200 billion. Right. Apple now has the highest market capitalization of any tech company. http://techcrunch.com/2011/02/14/apple-eats-microsoft/ At $330 billion they beat Microsoft by $100 Billion, and Google by a bit more than that. Apple is still a little over $90 billion away from becoming the overall most valuable public company in the world. Exxon's market cap stands at $422 billion... Apple fanboys rejoice. Apple is the new Microsoft. :=-) -Tom -- Tom Metro Venture Logic, Newton, MA, USA Enterprise solutions through open source. Professional Profile: http://tmetro.venturelogic.com/ ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: 30% Apple
Matthew Gillen wrote: Dan O'Donovan wrote: It's also nice to read that Apple are refusing to pass subscriber's personal info on to publishers - those are valuable freebees for the publisher that aren't often used to the advantage of the subscriber. It's because they are realizing how valuable that information is; all of these companies are getting into the content-delivery business, and they don't want to share this valuable info with their competition (i.e. other content providers). They just word it in their press-releases as if they are doing consumers a favor. It has far more to do with maintaining their walled garden than it does about consumer rights... Right. Te lack of reader demographics also means that publishers can't sell advertising in their publications for as much, so it increases costs. It pretty much makes something like an ad-supported trade magazine impossible. I hear Amazon's affiliate program works in a similar fashion. A colleague refuses to use it for that reason. A good e-commerce platform provides not only leads and sales for the content provider, but lets them build a relationship with the consumer. -Tom -- Tom Metro Venture Logic, Newton, MA, USA Enterprise solutions through open source. Professional Profile: http://tmetro.venturelogic.com/ ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: 30% Apple
On 02/17/2011 12:51 PM, Jarod Wilson wrote: On Feb 17, 2011, at 10:56 AM, Matthew Gillen wrote: On 02/17/2011 10:13 AM, Dan O'Donovan wrote: It's also worth noting that Apple seldom make choices that result in a loss of experience for ... their customers Really? Does iTunes/iPod support open formats like Ogg or Flac? No. Do most (non-lug-subscribing) users care that relatively esoteric formats aren't supported? I'm going to go with No. 10 years ago you could have said the same thing about how most people don't care if their connection to a given website is secured with SSL. Just because most non-lug-subscribers don't know enough to care doesn't mean it doesn't matter. My point was that in the long term, having patent-encumbered formats as consumers' only option is harmful to the consumer. It increases costs for content producers, which has all sorts of negative effects. As a Fedora guy, I'm kind of surprised you're making this argument. Don't you get sick of people complaining that they can't listen to their music collection with an out-of-the-box Fedora install? Sure, you can replace the firmware on your ipod with rockbox or the like, but that's not exactly the Apple experience, is it? Does Ogg or Flac playback decode in hardware or software? If its in software, well, that's a compelling reason for not supporting it right there -- it'll slaughter battery life. But they already support multiple formats (MP3, AAC, WAV, etc). So I don't buy that it was too technically difficult to support it with hardware, or that they have mp3-specific decoding hardware. The ipod Touch uses a 'custom' ARM processor. I would guess that the 'custom' part there has more to do with the integrated graphics and I/O than with special decoding instructions... Is supporting more things badly really better for most (non-lug-subscribing) users than doing less things very well? Depends on how narrow your point of view is. If you don't care about future content creation, and are happy supporting MPEG-LA with every DVD you buy, then I guess it is better. Matt ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
RE: 30% Apple
From: discuss-boun...@blu.org [mailto:discuss-boun...@blu.org] On Behalf Of Richard Pieri Apple's 35% take from music and movies sold from the iTMS. So, really, Apple is doing nothing substantially different with the subscription model than it's been doing for the past 8 years. There is something fundamentally different. When you buy an iphone, you make a substantial investment, and you're required to sign a 2-year contract. So when Apple suddenly starts a new policy of charging where they previously weren't... That's exploiting a monopoly. ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: RE: 30% Apple
On Thursday, 17 February 2011 at 22:59, Edward Ned Harvey wrote: When you buy an iphone, you make a substantial investment, and you're required to sign a 2-year contract. Only required in the US - my European iPhone is unlocked and contract free. The contracts benefit the network operators, not Apple. I'm sure Apple would much rather you bought a new phone every year. -- Dan O'Donovan Sent with Sparrow ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: 30% Apple
On 02/17/2011 02:02 PM, Richard Pieri wrote: Apple is doing nothing substantially different with the subscription model than it's been doing for the past 8 years. That's what I find so entertaining about these conversations. I would sooner expect my bank to give me a few extra days to make a payment than expect Apple to leave money on the table. They have a very large loyal following, and still more that feel they're the best available options for them, like me. Android is simply not an option for me until they get their head (and my data) out of the clouds and back on my own computer. Windows Mobile 7 is visually much better, but they threw out major functionality like cut and paste because it was almost 2 years late. So Apple it is. But that's just me. And RMS. http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2008/sep/29/cloud.computing.richard.stallman ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
RE: 30% Apple
From: discuss-boun...@blu.org [mailto:discuss-boun...@blu.org] On Behalf Of David Kramer Android is simply not an option for me until they get their head (and my data) out of the clouds and back on my own computer. Explain that? I am an android user, and I have no experience that I can relate to your comment above. ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: 30% Apple
On 02/17/2011 11:36 PM, Edward Ned Harvey wrote: From: discuss-boun...@blu.org [mailto:discuss-boun...@blu.org] On Behalf Of David Kramer Android is simply not an option for me until they get their head (and my data) out of the clouds and back on my own computer. Explain that? I am an android user, and I have no experience that I can relate to your comment above. To the best of my knowledge, and certainly a year or so ago when I had to make this decision, stock Android calendar/contacts/etc would not sync with any desktop app without the data going through some web-based service. Not under Windows and certainly not under Linux. Is that no longer the case? ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: 30% Apple
On Feb 17, 2011, at 10:59 PM, Edward Ned Harvey wrote: There is something fundamentally different. When you buy an iphone, you make a substantial investment, and you're required to sign a 2-year contract. So when Apple suddenly starts a new policy of charging where they previously weren't... That's exploiting a monopoly. Your first statement is patently false. iPhones can be had without contracts. You'll pay the full cost ($600-$700) instead of the subsidized price but they work just fine with pre-paid SIMs. No contract required. You do have to purchase at an Apple or ATT retail store; on-line sales require a contract. Yes, this is for US iPhones. Yes, this includes iPhone 4. For all practical purposes the options are no different from what is available with other smart- and superphones. Your second statement is also false. This is not a new policy. It's been Apple's policy since mid-2009 when the iPhone OS 3.0 SDK was released. This is the SDK version that introduced the Store Kit framework for making in-app purchases. Really, the only sudden things are the stricter enforcement of that policy and the stink that Sony has stirred up because its Reader app was rejected due to that enforcement. I'm not going to tell you not to pile hate on Apple. I am, however, going to ask that you do so based on facts, not hyperbole. --Rich P. ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
