Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Top Posting... Can we have an LO Mailing List Guidelines Page?
How about you just read the goddamn RFC's for email protocol and stop whining about it? On 01/10/2011 23:26, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote: orcmid comments-in-line=true / -Original Message- From: Tim Schofield [mailto:t...@weberpafrica.com] Sent: Saturday, October 01, 2011 14:03 To: discuss@documentfoundation.org Subject: Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Top Posting... Can we have an LO Mailing List Guidelines Page? On 30 September 2011 02:46, NoOp gl...@sbcglobal.net wrote: I must say that I *am* surprised that LO haven't the technical/political ability/tenacity to properly post information regarding this issue in the same manner as the links provided (OOo, Mozilla, Ubuntu, et al). It may be possible they have important things to do? orcmid How about a monthly FAQ message that establishes what constitutes appropriate etiquette? This should be customized for each list separately. There could be all facts applicable to the specific list, including the ever-popular unsubscribe instructions, what the subject matter of the list is, writing subject lines, finding other places to play and additional sources, etc. It would be good to say what actions arouse moderator actions and that nothing else does. /orcmid -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Top Posting...
On 30 September 2011 02:46, NoOpgl...@sbcglobal.net wrote: I must say that I *am* surprised that LO haven't the technical/political ability/tenacity to properly post information regarding this issue in the same manner as the links provided (OOo, Mozilla, Ubuntu, et al). I have published a comprehensive Mailing List Netiquette, which should satisfy your needs. http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette Of course, a mailing list netiquette is just a reference document, and we cannot kill people who ignore it (the majority of users ignore the simple existence of the netiquette). -- Italo Vignoli italo.vign...@gmail.com mobile +39.348.5653829 VoIP +39.02.320621813 skype italovignoli -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Top Posting...
Am 02.10.2011 18:07, schrieb Italo Vignoli: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette Bravo! Thanks a lot. Stefan -- LibreOffice - Die Freiheit nehm' ich mir! -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
RE: [tdf-discuss] Re: Top Posting... Can we have an LO Mailing List Guidelines Page?
Which RFC's are you talking about? Numbers please. - Dennis -Original Message- From: Mark Preston [mailto:m...@mpreston.demon.co.uk] Sent: Sunday, October 02, 2011 06:12 To: discuss@documentfoundation.org Subject: Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Top Posting... Can we have an LO Mailing List Guidelines Page? How about you just read the goddamn RFC's for email protocol and stop whining about it? [ ... ] -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
RE: [tdf-discuss] Re: Top Posting...
Thank you for the Mailing List Netiquette page. 1. I would have preferred that the last paragraph under Top-Posting vs. Bottom-posting followed the Avoid Advocacy guidance better. On the whole, I find the page admirable, civil, and useful. 2. I have an offer. What formatting by senders will most powerfully serve those on [libreoffice-accessibility]? What do those with access limitations confirm to be the best that works for all of them? Whatever *that* is, I will do everything in my power to honor. - Dennis E. Hamilton tools for document interoperability, http://nfoWorks.org/ dennis.hamil...@acm.org gsm: +1-206-779-9430 @orcmid -Original Message- From: Italo Vignoli [mailto:italo.vign...@gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, October 02, 2011 09:07 To: discuss@documentfoundation.org Subject: Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Top Posting... [ ... ] I have published a comprehensive Mailing List Netiquette, which should satisfy your needs. http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette Of course, a mailing list netiquette is just a reference document, and we cannot kill people who ignore it (the majority of users ignore the simple existence of the netiquette). -- Italo Vignoli italo.vign...@gmail.com mobile +39.348.5653829 VoIP +39.02.320621813 skype italovignoli -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
RE: [tdf-discuss] Re: Top Posting... Can we have an LO Mailing List Guidelines Page?
Hi, On Sun, October 2, 2011 20:29, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote: How about you just read the goddamn RFC's for email protocol and stop whining about it? Which RFC's are you talking about? Numbers please. Please don't top-post (fixed it for you in this message). I assume the reference is to basic netiquette, which is RFC 1885. But for this list, please refer to (which is also in the mailinglist footer): http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette Thanks, Mark -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
RE: [tdf-discuss] Re: Top Posting... Can we have an LO Mailing List Guidelines Page?
Mark, I think my question was concrete and very clear: How about you just read the goddamn RFC's for email protocol and stop whining about it? Which RFC's are you talking about? Numbers please. I don't see how RFC 1885 can be meant. It says nothing about in-line, bottom, or top. Well, it says a little about how to do top-posting properly, depending on how you read this part: - If you are sending a reply to a message or a posting be sure you summarize the original at the top of the message, or include just enough text of the original to give a context. This will make sure readers understand when they start to read your response. Since NetNews, especially, is proliferated by distributing the postings from one host to another, it is possible to see a response to a message before seeing the original. Giving context helps everyone. But do not include the entire original! I need to do that better. NetNews (NNTP) is not being used here at [tdf-discuss], and there are other things that are so 1995 in RFC 1885 (which is also not an IETF Standard, for those who like to use the standard word). But that is the extent of what it says about organizing replies to lists and news groups. (I am more concerned about [libreoffice-users] hostility, though.) There are other things, such as - Limit line length to fewer than 65 characters and end a line with a carriage return. which made a lot of sense if you were using an ASCII terminal or a TTY printer. If someone tells me it is critical to using a brailler or text-to-speech today, I will pay a lot more attention. - Dennis E. Hamilton tools for document interoperability, http://nfoWorks.org/ dennis.hamil...@acm.org gsm: +1-206-779-9430 @orcmid -Original Message- From: Mark Wielaard [mailto:m...@klomp.org] Sent: Sunday, October 02, 2011 11:59 To: discuss@documentfoundation.org Subject: RE: [tdf-discuss] Re: Top Posting... Can we have an LO Mailing List Guidelines Page? Hi, On Sun, October 2, 2011 20:29, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote: How about you just read the goddamn RFC's for email protocol and stop whining about it? Which RFC's are you talking about? Numbers please. Please don't top-post (fixed it for you in this message). I assume the reference is to basic netiquette, which is RFC 1885. But for this list, please refer to (which is also in the mailinglist footer): http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette Thanks, Mark -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Top Posting...
On 10/02/2011 08:38 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote: 1. I would have preferred that the last paragraph under Top-Posting vs. Bottom-posting followed the Avoid Advocacy guidance better. On the whole, I find the page admirable, civil, and useful. You are right. I have amended the paragraph, and I have also changed the Avoid Advocay section to improve the clarity. 2. I have an offer. What formatting by senders will most powerfully serve those on [libreoffice-accessibility]? What do those with access limitations confirm to be the best that works for all of them? Whatever *that* is, I will do everything in my power to honor. I am not an expert about accessibility, but I recall that this is one of the cases where top posting is the best choice. I suggest to have a double check, though, as I am not competent in this domain. -- Italo Vignoli italo.vign...@gmail.com mobile +39.348.5653829 VoIP +39.02.320621813 skype italovignoli -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[tdf-discuss] Re: Top Posting...
On 10/02/2011 09:07 AM, Italo Vignoli wrote: On 30 September 2011 02:46, NoOpgl...@sbcglobal.net wrote: I must say that I *am* surprised that LO haven't the technical/political ability/tenacity to properly post information regarding this issue in the same manner as the links provided (OOo, Mozilla, Ubuntu, et al). I have published a comprehensive Mailing List Netiquette, which should satisfy your needs. Thanks! http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette Of course, a mailing list netiquette is just a reference document, and we cannot kill people who ignore it (the majority of users ignore the simple existence of the netiquette). Fully agree. And the intent of my OP was never to turn away posters that top post Even if the final consensus is to only top post... at least will help with consistancy on this (users), and the other LO lists. but instead to have a page that users can be 'politely' pointed to and 'asked' to abide by list standards. With regard to concerns about top/interspersed/bottom posting on the accessibility list; I think that the question should be asked there. If that list prefers top-posting for accessibility reasons then that point can be added into the http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette. Ironically in the past I've purposely top-posted when addressing a poster that I knew was blind the poster informed me that it was easier for him to have the posts interspersed with proper trimming. Other accessibility lists seem to go either way, so I do not know the correct answer regarding this issue. Again, perhaps the best would be to ask on the LO accessibility list and then adopt whichever preference is shown there. Thanks again I *very* much appreciate your time effort in doing this. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
