Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Remove ActiveX from LibreOffice

[timofonic timofonic]

Hello.

I'm an humble and unskilled user, but here's my opinion:

- I personally think technologies like ActiveX are a double sword, they
help others to get attached to the Microsoft ecosystem. This technology
isn't an open standard and has potential security risks.
- I see this issue is taken serious with ActiveX, but there's another
dangerous technology: Java.
* Do you remember what happened with Oracle vs Java? They are switching to
OpenJDK, but personally I think that environment is poisoned by a
corporation as greedy and corrupt like microsoft.
* I think Java is a security risk, not so multiplatform in reality and not
so efficient. It should be avoided and eliminated from LO codebase.


What about making Python and Lua more important in LibreOffice?

- Lua:
* It's extremely lightweight and it did born for configure files.
* It can be used to replace certain native code that is difficult to
maintain or prone to lots of changes.
* You can use a JIT or compile it as native code, there are different
approachs.
* It could make LibreOffice more customizable: Do you think LibreOffice UI
is awful? Are you a keyboard junkie that is used to console text editors?
Do you have some disability that requires a specific interface (visual,
tactile, eye movement, voice...) No problem if the UI could be easy to
adapt to make it work in different ways.

- Python
* There's UNO: Who uses it?
* What about using the more faster Python implementations?



I think LibreOffice needs to have a more disruptive and innovative approach:

- I always considered emacs something very interesting, but not practical.
* elisp and lack of multithreading make it very unusable.
* It's unusable until you master it. It's good you can do some magic with
programming skills and get used to keyboard use, but there should be a
friendly start and the default mode should be easy for unskilled computer
users.
* Despite of that, the Emacs community is impressive: There's constant
loads of new extensions for it, very enthusiast users t the level some of
them are unfortunately zealots.

- I'm jealous of Atom, despite being "just" a text editor:
* It has loads of extensions.
* It could be used as an IDE for programing, web development and design.
* But I consider the "web native" apps really resource eaters.

What's the future of LibreOffice? Does it want to be just a Microsoft
Office clone?
- Why not make it a more flexible but lightweight at same time?
- What about niches? Engineering, sciences, education, programming.
- What about making it not freeze while saving and all these annoying stuff?

I would love:

- Writer: The best of a "text processor". Become a powerful ide. Able to
edit using markup languages. Able to use DVCS like Git.
- Calc: Make it more advanced
* Stadistic features of the old SMPS one or even better.
*  Integrate CAS (Computer Algebra System) in some reliable and flexible
approach: Maxima, SageMath integration, resurrect CmathOOoCAS (it uses
Xcas/Giac), CoCoA.
- Make Math a real scientific tool.
* What about merging it with some CAS tool?
* What about provide RPN?
* What about making it able to be used as an advanced scientific calculator
and even interoperability with commercial ones?
* It needs some love in the boolean logic features, too.

- All: What about RTCE? Interoperability with e-learning systems like
Moodle? Able to be used to embed scientific/technical information like CAD,
EDA, 3D?

I know my ideas are insane, but that's what my insane mind think about the
ideal LO :)

Kind regards.

LibreOffice only goes to get the low hanging fruit. It may seem a good
approach, but makes it a curse.

On Tue, Jan 12, 2016 at 2:03 PM, Rick C. Hodgin 
wrote:

> If you search for "Microsoft Excel Automation" you'll find many references
> online of how ActiveX is used in other applications to allow the Excel
> engine to compute things in a spreadsheet form.  Were the same ability
> well-documented in LibreOffice, many people would switch as LibreOffice is
> free, and Excel costs hundreds of dollars.
>
> I urge you not to remove it, but to improve it for simpler integration.  It
> should work like this:
>
> lo = CreateObject("libreoffice.application")
> lo.open("c:\path\to\my\document\file.ext")
> lo.visible = .t.
>
> And in that way, an application can directly integrate operations into
> their app which loads LibreOffice.  Note that these examples are in Visual
> Basic, but the same general form works from any application, including C++
> (see below):
>
> Here are some automation examples for Excel, Word, Outlook, and PowerPoint:
> Excel:  https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/219151
> Word:  https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/316383
> Outlook:  https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/220595
>
> A more example-by-example based tutorial:
> PowerPoint:
> https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb871574%28v=vs.80%29.aspx
>
> Here's a code snippet on how to access ActiveX from another application
> using C++ 

[tdf-discuss] A humble critique about LO: grammar, dictionaries and basic usability

[timofonic timofonic]

Hello.

I wanted to reply this email, because I was having some minor
usability issues about LibreOffice. Nothing too bad, but I wanted to
share it with the team.

I was helping my gf to do some university work, I installed her
LibreOffice because she was used to OpenOffice and no problems to it.
But there were some stuff was difficult to make for her, and also a
bit to me too. I may not be a Linux guru, but I have some years of
experience as user. Here we go:

- About style and grammar checkers: I find quite confusing that they
aren't bundled with LO itself, I need to install different packages.
Despite this can be done easily by people used to Linux, others may
have difficulties to find the correct package. Also, I see there are
different extensions for different languages, yet they use Java most
of the time (I don't consider it an adequate technology not just
because it's by Oracle, but is a bloated dependency and may make
things worse for slower systems). I see there are Languagetool, it
supports lots of languages but requires java. There's lightproof,
requires Python (it's not so efficient too) and supports too few
languages at this moment. This feature is also bundled by default in
Microsoft Office and lots of people use it to proofread their
documents. There's a lack of automatically analyzing words written in
other languages like Latin (quite used for terms), too.

- About dictionary: Are dictionaries so big to make them bundled by
default? Why not include them? Also, there were a lot of missing words
in the Spanish dictionary and some lack of understanding about able to
write compound words in both ways (f.ex. psico-social and
psicosocial).

- About page enumeration: While I agree showing advanced options is a
plus, stuff like this is somewhat messy and confusing. Seriously, I
had to check a few tutorials to find a correct way to avoid page
enumeration to the first pages of a document and I had some issues
replicating it later. It's difficult to remember it and it seems I got
confused with page style or something like that (I can provide further
details if needed).

I just wanted to share my opinion to others, maybe I'm wrong at it in
some way. But at least I tried to contribute a bit :)

Regards.

(Sorry for my bad English)

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OpenDocument accurate representation file format? Re: [tdf-discuss] New LibreOffice Reader Eliminates Need for PDF Reader

[timofonic timofonic]

Anyway, I don´t consider PDF a proper OPEN standard, as it´s not
designed by a global consortium like OASIS.

What about designing a new file format for this purpose and being part
of OpenDocument? Some people said DjVu being accurate but lacking some
features (vectorial image support?).

I'm not a developer at all, but I think OpenDocument format family
should evolve in this direction some day. PDF-based ISO standard
follows a lying way similar to Mono and .NET: the open standard lags
behind the official implementation. This is a very dangerous trap that
is still giving too much advantages to Adobe over competitors.


On Sun, Jun 26, 2011 at 1:07 PM, Ian Lynch ianrly...@gmail.com wrote:
 On 26 June 2011 01:15, Sean White runicpala...@gmail.com wrote:

 I dont thinks thats normal somehow, i have been using Adobe Reader for
 years
 and have NEVER had it come past 200MB.


 ISTR a whole load of adverising crap in one large Acrobat download.

 Back to discussion, what's with all the PDF hate.


 Not hate, irritation by misuse.  Hundreds of files to download that could
 simply be in HTML pages (as Alexandro indicated). We get stuff originated in
 whatever app and distributed in pdf format when it will never ever get
 printed. In fact mostly you can produce a pdf from a web page if you really
 need to anyway. I have 100 page application forms from the EU in Acrobat
 that need huge hardware resources just to be usable. This stuff should be in
 client server databases operated through web browsers not desktop pdf files.
 I accept all this as transition noise as we move to mobile technologies and
 the web. pdf was not originally designed for these purposes, it was designed
 for systems putting the information on to paper and has been extended and
 bloated accordingly. Arguably, rather like Office applications ;-).

  It serves a very good
 purpose a standard, editable document that shows up exactly how you want it
 WHEREVER you are and whatever OS you are using.


 Not disputing that. If you want distribute a document accurately for
 printing on paper, use pdf.


 this has always been its
 use and so it falls in a different document category to ODF.  ODF is an
 office format created to compete with MSO's doc, xls an ppt formats.  to
 essentially modify the underlying purpose to make it behave more like a PDF
 would waste most of what we have put into it.


 I agree, so let's look at the future and that is the web and mobile
 tecnologies. How do we get LibO to the web? That would be a far better
 priority for the use of resources.

 --
 Ian

 Ofqual Accredited IT Qualifications (The Schools ITQ)

 www.theINGOTs.org +44 (0)1827 305940

 The Learning Machine Limited, Reg Office, 36 Ashby Road, Tamworth,
 Staffordshire, B79 8AQ. Reg No: 05560797, Registered in England and
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[tdf-discuss] What about a common document support codebase/library between different FOSS Office suites and readers?

[timofonic timofonic]

Hello.


I also think all office applications should use a common codebase for
reading and writing the files, instead competing on one that supports
certain file formats better than the rest. Think of it as something
similar to FFMPeg/Libav, that could be used by all FOSS Office or
reader applications. It can give a enormous support advantage over
Microsoft products and at the same time improve the support with more
developers involved.

I think statements like this in the FOSS world are EXTREMELY SAD:
With this snapshot Calligra Office Words is claiming better
compatibility with .docx than LibreOffice, and also claims to be
approaching the best compatibility with legacy .doc formats. (taken
from OSNews).

Of course this is a personal idea I gave many months ago in some email
here, but my lack of proper English and not explaining it correctly
made it to be ignored.

Regards.

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Re: [tdf-discuss] Enhancement Request: Comment Ranges

[timofonic timofonic]

10. ...
11. Profit!

Are there plans to improve it? I've seen easier government bureaucracy
stuff than that...

On Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 1:10 PM, Charles Jenkins
cejperso...@tec-usa.com wrote:
 M. Henri Day wrote:


  Charles wrote:
 
  Now that we can find Bug 38244 under the section for voting on
  Enhancements to Writer, I'd like to ask everyone with an interest in
  this issue to please sign up and add your vote.
 
  If you use Track Changes to work with an editor, you probably need this
  feature! :-)

  Charles, I'm happy to hear that you were able to edit the page, but less
  happy that, despite signing in, I couldn't find any way to register my

 vote.

  A step-by-step for the intellectually challenged ?...

  Henri


 Henri,

 No problem, and you're not intellectually challenged at all: Their
 system is cumbersome.

 1. Create an account for yourself at wiki.documentfoundation.org

 2. Respond to the verification email

 3. Wait some number of hours for your authorization to fully filter
 through their system.

 4. Go to http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Vote_for_Enhancement and log in.

 5. Find the link for Bug 38244 in the Contents box and click on it.

 6. When that bug appears onscreen, look to the far right for a link
 labeled [edit] and click it.

 7. Find the line that says '''I disagree with that request ''' and right
 ABOVE it, add a new line that begins with a hash mark (#). Obviously, a
 vote below that line would count against us, so be careful!

 8. Type your message.

 9. Feel good that you have done something for all of humanity by helping
 to make Libre Office a stronger competitor to Microsoft Word. (LOL!)

 --

 Charles



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Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: [Libreoffice] Proposal to join Apache OpenOffice

[timofonic timofonic]

There are end users that care of freedom in a broad sense. I'm one of
them, using Linux-based systems since late 90s :)

And we aren't so few, because the number is growing and specially in
this worldwide economical crisis. You can see by objective stadistics
that the adoption of FOSS is bigger in economically poorer (I dislike
the poor term in essence, but..) countries than economically richer
ones.

The need of a corporate entity that monopolizes the support is
contrary to the spirit of Open/Free Source. The same work can be done
by local companies, improve competing and also those smaller companies
can contribute in developing the product too.

You can also follow the Mozilla approach, but that's a very different
and difficult topic.

On Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 2:18 PM, Augustine Souza aesouza2...@gmail.com wrote:
 On 6/15/11, Allen Pulsifer pulsi...@openoffice.org wrote:
 ...
 End users do not care about
 who's right, who's wrong, who's been slighted, who is more pure, etc.  They
 just care about products and technologies that are going to meet their
 needs.

 Painting quite a poor picture of end users? Are they really like that?
 Or do we say so to support our argument?

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Re: [tdf-discuss] Strange OpenOffice Email from a new universe

[timofonic timofonic]

What? Are they spamming OpenOffice.org users with some marketing
campaign? Amazing, they must be desesperated...

On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 2:21 PM, Joe Rotello joerote...@windowgroup.com wrote:
 MEMO

 Subject:: Receipt of Strange OpenOffice Email from a new universe

 A lot of us past OpenOffice.org users are getting Emails now from
 OpenOffice.org inviting us to a new OpenOffice universe.

 Overall, this is going to confuse the living daylights out of a great many
 OpenSource users, of which we are observing the likes of the better
 LibreOffice 3.3.1 and now Emails regaling us about OpenOffice 3.3.0 that now
 seems much inferior.

 The latter group's Email is downright confusing, expounds on a lot of
 hodge-podge information, almost not making sense.

 Just a heads-up that such Email is floating around the great ether, and is
 dropping into a great many Email-boxes.

 Joe
 WindowGroup /Knoxville , TN / USA
 Skype: joerotello

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Re: [tdf-discuss] New support list suggestion

[timofonic timofonic]

I support (pun not intended) the idea. This list could be useful to
users of other software, including classic ones.

Imagine someone was a former Wordperfect (or even still being, there
are people using it under a DOS emulator like DOSbox) and want to get
used to this new software. Or maybe he has a giant number of documents
and LibO can't read them appropiately.

This can be a nice feedback for both file format support and guides
aimed to users of other productivity software.

On Thu, Nov 18, 2010 at 6:46 PM, Charles Marcus
cmar...@media-brokers.com wrote:
 I'd really like to see an email support list dedicated solely to
 questions in the nature of I know how to do this in
 Excel/Word/Powerpoint, but how do I do it on Calc/Writer/Impress?...

 Ie, a list dedicated to Microsoft Office 'Recoverers'...

 --

 Best regards,

 Charles

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Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: On the Future of TDF

[timofonic timofonic]

That's interesting to know about OASIS, thanks for the explanation.

What about sharing the document file format support between FOSS
related programs? It's the other part of the idea that not got
answered :)

On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 5:51 AM, Marc Paré m...@marcpare.com wrote:
 Le 2010-11-15 17:07, timofonic timofonic a écrit :

 I propose another idea: What about convert the file support of LibO
 into a portable, resource efficient, well designed and multiplatform
 library for all FOSS projects? I would imagine it like the WebKit of
 document file formats, but governed in a less corporate way. This
 library would have it´s own site into backed or being a TDF subdomain
 (or both), and improved between all friend projects.

 Of course this idea would need lot's of PR, negotiate with different
 projects and probably even deep changes in the original source code.
 This could make not only more interoperability, but FOSS projects
 having a lot stronger file type support. It could be used easily for
 non-interactive document converters too.

 A strong official alliance about this and other interoperability stuff
 could be very good for the FOSS productivity suite.

 Hi Timofonic.

 But we already have this with the ODF and the Oasis Consortium of which some
 of our members sit on their committees. We should instead propose
 refinements to the ODF rather than add another layer of complexity. Creating
 another consortium takes a lot of time and negotiation between different
 groups, not to mention financial backing and legal representation.

 We already have many cooperating groups using the ODF and it sounds like the
 ODF has made great strides in being accepted in Europe, unlike N.America
 where it is still quite unknown. The LO marketing team hopes to make a
 difference in promoting the ODF formats as well as LO in the Americas as
 well as everywhere it is unknown. It is all in our interest to do so.

 Marc



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Re: [tdf-discuss] On the Future of TDF

[timofonic timofonic]

On Mon, Nov 15, 2010 at 8:38 PM, AG computing.acco...@googlemail.com wrote:
 On 14/11/10 11:25, Mirek M. wrote:

 Hi everyone,
 I've been meaning to write this e-mail for a while now, but haven't gotten
 around to it until now -- I hope it's still relevant.

 The Next Decade Manifesto and the recent press release (available at
 http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/announce/msg00016.html for those
 who
 haven't read it yet) open up a lot of question and comments:

 TDF founders foresee a completely different future for the office suite
 paradigm, which - in the actual format - is over 20 years old, to be based
 on the document (where the software is a layer for the creation or the
 presentation of the contents).

 What exactly does that mean for the internal structure of LibreOffice?
 Does
 this mean that LibO will be more object-oriented?

 In addition, each single module of LibreOffice will be undergoing an
 extensive rewrite, with Calc being the first one to be redeveloped around
 a
 brand new engine - code named Ixion - that will increase performance,
 allow
 true versatility and add long awaited database and VBA macro handling
 features.

 Great.


 Yep - that +does+ sound interesting.  Any time-lines given for this or the
 other improvements?

 Writer is going to be improved in the area of layout fidelity and Impress
 in the area of slideshow fidelity. Most of the new features are either
 meant
 to maintain compatibility with the market leading office suite or will
 introduce radical innovations.

 Can't wait to see it. I'm very curious as to what the radical
 innovations
 will bring.


 Ditto.

 The Document Foundation is going to be at the heart of the Free Software
 universe, where users want to build a different future for office suites,
 working together with developers.

 It'd be great if TDF focused on integration and interoperability with
 other
 open-source projects.


 +1

I agree too, this is extremely important. Let's focus on similar goals
of all these projects instead the differences and collaborate strongly
on that. The real enemy is the propietary software and non-standards,
no other free software.

I propose another idea: What about convert the file support of LibO
into a portable, resource efficient, well designed and multiplatform
library for all FOSS projects? I would imagine it like the WebKit of
document file formats, but governed in a less corporate way. This
library would have it´s own site into backed or being a TDF subdomain
(or both), and improved between all friend projects.

Of course this idea would need lot's of PR, negotiate with different
projects and probably even deep changes in the original source code.
This could make not only more interoperability, but FOSS projects
having a lot stronger file type support. It could be used easily for
non-interactive document converters too.

A strong official alliance about this and other interoperability stuff
could be very good for the FOSS productivity suite.

 I'd really like to see Linux become the primary platform to focus on (yes,
 Linux has a much smaller user base than Windows, but that will never
 change
 if software companies keep favoring Windows). For Linux, OpenOffice.org
 (going forward LibreOffice) is vital.


 +1

 It would also be great if LibO, KOffice, AbiWord, Gnumeric, Ease, and all
 the other open-source editors worked together to set standards. It'd be
 great, for example, if you could choose a standard open-source font triad
 that
 was bundled with all (relevant) open-source software (and closed-source
 software too) to counter MS's Times-Arial-Courier triad (and the rising
 Calibri-Cambria-Candara triad). Or if you could agree on the same keyboard
 shortcuts.


 Personally, I couldn't care one way or another - I just want crisp and clear
 fonts and a suitable range.

 snip


 Users read, write, modify and share documents, and are focused on
 contents
 rather than software features. After 20 years of feature oriented
 software,
 it is now the right time to bring back content at the centre of user
 focus.

 Does this mean that the ribbonesque UI that came out of OOo Renaissance
 will
 be abandoned in favor of a more efficient and less distracting UI?



 +1

 This is a great aspiration: the art of software design would be similar to
 the contribution the drummer makes to a song: reliable, robust, and not too
 much in the way of the rest of the music.[1]  In the same way, in order to
 help the user focus on the content, the workspace needs to be paramount with
 the tools and options accessible and intuitive so that the user can get on
 with the work and not worry about how things work and how to accomplish
 common tasks.

 And what I would really appreciate is a help guide that suggests *why*
 someone might want to use a particular tool (especially for the more
 esoteric options).  This would certainly help expand my usage of the suite
 and tap into its power more effectively.

 Cheers

 AG

 [1] 

Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Java dependency

[timofonic timofonic]

+5 too.

What about supporting more languages for extensions instead? Lua seems
interesting, there are other languages that couldbe supported too.

I think LibO should be completely functional with all the features
without the use of heavy dependencies like JVM.

Also I think LibO should concentrate on being a lot more resource
efficient without losing functionalities. This way slower machines
will be able to run it like netbooks, mobile devices and specially
those using ARM.

Regards.


On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 8:16 AM, shundr...@gmail.com shundr...@gmail.com wrote:
 +4 on making Java optional. Personally, I prefer Python for writing
 extensions to programs as it usually results in smaller code and less
 legal uncertainty. Do we / Can we have the option of making LibO
 extensions in Python?

 -Thiago

 On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 6:19 AM, jonathon toki.kant...@gmail.com wrote:
 -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
 Hash: SHA1

 On 11/03/2010 12:08 AM, Christian Lohmaier wrote:

  + Base HSQLDB backend

 That would mean: ship a different database with by default,

 SQLite could easily be added.

 would still need that backend otherwise you'd introduce a major 
 incompatibility with previous versions.

 Doesn't Base have its own independent database engine.  Something that
 is not part of OOo/LibO?  If so, then a connector for it would be all
 that is required to retain the ability to use databases created for it.

 I don't really see a chance for base unless you want to duplicate base.

 Base as the front end could be rewritten.

 (Yes, I personally do like java, and I'd not create a code-heavy extension 
 in any other language without a good reason)

 Keep the ability for extensions to be written in Java.

 jonathon
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Re: [tdf-discuss] Oracle's OpenOffice in Libre Software World Conference

[timofonic timofonic]

Hello.

I have no contacts with the organizers, but you can contact with most
of them at the Asolif mailing list
http://www.asolif.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/comunicacion

Other than that, maybe someone can contact the oOO presentation
responsible person. Any possible solution to The Document Foundation
having some presence in this FOSS event?

I'm sorry for that Jesus, I hope to see you in next Spanish FOSS
events representing TDF. Nos veremos allí (we'll see us there) :)


Regards.

PS: Should be keep this discussion to marketing mailing list only?



2010/10/25 Jesús Corrius je...@softcatala.org:
 On Mon, Oct 25, 2010 at 9:39 AM, timofonic timofonic
 timofo...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hello.

 I'm not sure what one of the two mailing lists suits best, so I reply
 in both because it may have different topis on each thread.

 Oracle's OpenOffice (oOO) is going to participate in the Libre
 Software World Conference (LSWC).

 LSWC is the spiritual sucessor of the Open Source World Conference
 (OSWC), that got canceled 20 days before celebration due to supossed
 economical issues. LSWC replaces this event and will be celebated at
 27 October in Malaga (Andalucia, Spain, Europe).

 I would like to inform you about this and if there are any plans in
 respect to it. Maybe a group of volunteers can come in with some The
 Document Foundation's LibreOffice T-shirts (you can send me the logo
 in vectorized version, PDF and such is preferred), for example ;)

 http://www.libresoftwareworldconference.org

 Sorry for saying it too late, but I checked the program today
 (http://www.libresoftwareworldconference.org/index.php/en/about-the-conference/agenda).


 I was invited to the OSWC to give an official presentation about The
 Document Foundation.

 Unfortunately, I had to change my plans and now it's impossible for me
 to attend the LSWC. I will be happy to attend the conference next year
 if we can know the dates a few months in advance.

 Thanks Microsoft and friends for ruining my trip :(

 --
 Jesús Corrius je...@softcatala.org
 Document Foundation founding member
 Skype: jcorrius | Twitter: @jcorrius

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