Re: [tdf-discuss] New Tutorials website

[Olivier Hallot]

Hello Dave

No offense intended.

So it is not a business proposal. Fine. The foundation do business when
it find suitable for its mission and business is controlled by the
Board. On the "Free" on the very top of the page, I missed it, even
after clicking on every menu entry.

We have just launched a documentation website that is getting quite
amount of traffic from the Help menu of LibreOffice 5.3. It may be
interesting to add the tutorial as option to the site visitor. Calls
from other pages of our websites are also to be considered. As we agree,
we want to build synergies.

The documentation website is  http://documentation.libreoffice.org . It
was designed to let user quickly get documents, no cumbersome reading.
It works, half of the visits ends in a download. Having the adequate
call for the tutorials, makes the offer richer.

Now that I had a glimpse on the OpenOffice.org tutorial, I retain an
important asset which is the curriculum of the lessons. It can be the
ground base of a richer user experience if one add multimedia, such as
videos or screencasts.

Regards

Olivier

Em 16/03/2017 19:28, Dave Barton escreveu:
> Hi Oliver,
>
> My responses are given in-line with your original message.
>
> On 16.03.2017 18:51, Olivier Hallot wrote:
>> Hi Dave
>>
>> Interesting proposal. There is always the willing to build-up synergies.
> That is the intention. In my original post I incorrectly wrote "/to be
> part of the wider LibreOffice _*infrastructure*_/", when I meant to
> write "/to be part of the wider LibreOffice _*ecosystem*_/". That's what
> happens when you write on two similar subjects to two different
> recipients at the same time.
>
>> What I see in the page is a mockup, right?
> Correct! It, or a testing version of it, has existed for a few weeks and
> the home page was only been made publicly accessible so that TDF members
> would be able to actually see something more than just reading my
> rambling description of what was proposed.
>
>> I can't seem to be able to evaluate one of the tutorials or navigate beyond 
>> the homepage.
> As the website home page and my initial post to this thread explains,
> this is nothing more than a starting point.
>
> There is nothing that you or anyone else needs to "/evaluate/". This is
> not TDF/LibreOffice content, any more than, for example, Bruce Byfield's
> excellent "/Designing with LibreOffice/" needs to be subjected to
> anyone's "/evaluation/".
>
> If you want an "/idea/" about the content of the tutorials, take a look
> at the website http://www.tutorialsforopenoffice.org that I alone have
> been keeping alive since 2008. I stress the word IDEA, because that
> project was started by a retired businessman who, by his own admission,
> knew little or nothing about the software and most of the contributed
> tutorials were produced by inexperienced users, who were definitely not
> professional trainers or technical writers. However, they should be
> sufficient to provide you with a general, if very limited, outline of
> what we propose to offer.
>
>> But I have a question (couldn't catch it so far): is this a simple
>> non-for-profit collaboration (e.g. the tutorials are for free) or a
>> business proposal that involves the Foundation?
> Now here I am more than just a little bit offended by your words, which
> imply that I and my tiny group of associates might be a bunch of SCAM
> MERCHANTS out to make some kind of financial gain, like leaches on the
> back of LibreOffice's success . If that were true, why would we have
> even bothered to post to this list?
>
> I don't know how you "/couldn't catch it so far/", so tell me which half
> of the word FREE did you miss in the heading of the demo website.
> Leaving sarcasm aside and moving on to answer your specific questions:
>
>   * Yes, this is a not-for-profit project. Funding comes from my own
> personal financial resources.
>   * No, it is not a collaboration. It is an independent project
> promoting and supporting LibreOffice.
>   * Yes, just like the original Tutorials for OpenOffice project, the
> tutorials and user support for them is and always will be free.
>   * No, in no way is this a business proposal of any kind whatsoever and
> does not or even imply/suggest/indicate involvement with "The
> Foundation". Read the footer of the demo website. This same footer
> will exist on every page of the website, without exception. If "The
> Foundation" would like any modification of that wording I am open to
> suggestions or requests.
>
> I acknowledge that it is unlikely that you know who I am, or that you
> would recognise the name Dave Barton, because in previous times it has
> been in my business interest to keep a low profile. However, I have been
> an active supporter of both the original OOo and LibreOffice projects
> since their very first introduction. You will even find a few very small
> contributions I have made to the documentation on ODF Authors. There is
> 

Re: [tdf-discuss] New Tutorials website

[Italo Vignoli]

On 16/03/2017 23:28, Dave Barton wrote:

> While my contribution disappears into insignificance against that of
> Italo, I can claim to have personally introduced somewhere between
> two and three thousand individuals and several SMEs to become users
> of LibreOffice.

Hei Dave, thanks for the unexpected mention. I don't think I have done
more than any other LibreOffice advocate, apart from targeting the
public with the largest audience (journalists).

-- 
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Re: [tdf-discuss] New Tutorials website

[Dave Barton]

Hi Oliver,

My responses are given in-line with your original message.

On 16.03.2017 18:51, Olivier Hallot wrote:
> Hi Dave
>
> Interesting proposal. There is always the willing to build-up synergies.

That is the intention. In my original post I incorrectly wrote "/to be
part of the wider LibreOffice _*infrastructure*_/", when I meant to
write "/to be part of the wider LibreOffice _*ecosystem*_/". That's what
happens when you write on two similar subjects to two different
recipients at the same time.

> What I see in the page is a mockup, right?

Correct! It, or a testing version of it, has existed for a few weeks and
the home page was only been made publicly accessible so that TDF members
would be able to actually see something more than just reading my
rambling description of what was proposed.

> I can't seem to be able to evaluate one of the tutorials or navigate beyond 
> the homepage.

As the website home page and my initial post to this thread explains,
this is nothing more than a starting point.

There is nothing that you or anyone else needs to "/evaluate/". This is
not TDF/LibreOffice content, any more than, for example, Bruce Byfield's
excellent "/Designing with LibreOffice/" needs to be subjected to
anyone's "/evaluation/".

If you want an "/idea/" about the content of the tutorials, take a look
at the website http://www.tutorialsforopenoffice.org that I alone have
been keeping alive since 2008. I stress the word IDEA, because that
project was started by a retired businessman who, by his own admission,
knew little or nothing about the software and most of the contributed
tutorials were produced by inexperienced users, who were definitely not
professional trainers or technical writers. However, they should be
sufficient to provide you with a general, if very limited, outline of
what we propose to offer.

> But I have a question (couldn't catch it so far): is this a simple
> non-for-profit collaboration (e.g. the tutorials are for free) or a
> business proposal that involves the Foundation?

Now here I am more than just a little bit offended by your words, which
imply that I and my tiny group of associates might be a bunch of SCAM
MERCHANTS out to make some kind of financial gain, like leaches on the
back of LibreOffice's success . If that were true, why would we have
even bothered to post to this list?

I don't know how you "/couldn't catch it so far/", so tell me which half
of the word FREE did you miss in the heading of the demo website.
Leaving sarcasm aside and moving on to answer your specific questions:

  * Yes, this is a not-for-profit project. Funding comes from my own
personal financial resources.
  * No, it is not a collaboration. It is an independent project
promoting and supporting LibreOffice.
  * Yes, just like the original Tutorials for OpenOffice project, the
tutorials and user support for them is and always will be free.
  * No, in no way is this a business proposal of any kind whatsoever and
does not or even imply/suggest/indicate involvement with "The
Foundation". Read the footer of the demo website. This same footer
will exist on every page of the website, without exception. If "The
Foundation" would like any modification of that wording I am open to
suggestions or requests.

I acknowledge that it is unlikely that you know who I am, or that you
would recognise the name Dave Barton, because in previous times it has
been in my business interest to keep a low profile. However, I have been
an active supporter of both the original OOo and LibreOffice projects
since their very first introduction. You will even find a few very small
contributions I have made to the documentation on ODF Authors. There is
almost no public information (mailing lists, wikis, blogs, etc.) about
TDF and LibreOffice that I do not get to read. While my contribution
disappears into insignificance against that of Italo, I can claim to
have personally introduced somewhere between two and three thousand
individuals and several SMEs to become users of LibreOffice.


> Regards
>
> Olivier

I trust the above is an adequate response, but if you have further
questions or require additional information please ask.

Regards
Dave

> Em 15/03/2017 13:16, Dave escreveu:
>> Hi Florian,
>>
>> It looks like DNS propagation has not complete yet. Try again later.
>>
>> Regards
>> Dave
>>
>> On 15.03.2017 14:17, Florian Reisinger wrote:
>>> Hi Dave,
>>>
>>> I get an error 500 when trying to access the website
>>>
>>> Yours,
>>>
>>> Florian
>>>
>>> Dave  schrieb am Mi., 15. März 2017, 13:26:
>>>
 To anyone who may be interested:

 Back in 2008 I "/inherited/" the Tutorials for OpenOffice
 website/project, but due other life commitments (eg. running a business,
 family, etc.) I was never able to make sufficient extra time to do
 anything with it, other than simply keeping it alive. In 2010 I
 registered the libreofficetutorials.org domain 

Re: [tdf-discuss] New Tutorials website

[Olivier Hallot]

Hi Dave

Interesting proposal. There is always the willing to build-up synergies.

What I see in the page is a mockup, right? I can't seem to be able to
evaluate one of the tutorials or navigate beyond the homepage.

But I have a question (couldn't catch it so far): is this a simple
non-for-profit collaboration (e.g. the tutorials are for free) or a
business proposal that involves the Foundation?

Regards

Olivier

Em 15/03/2017 13:16, Dave escreveu:
> Hi Florian,
>
> It looks like DNS propagation has not complete yet. Try again later.
>
> Regards
> Dave
>
> On 15.03.2017 14:17, Florian Reisinger wrote:
>> Hi Dave,
>>
>> I get an error 500 when trying to access the website
>>
>> Yours,
>>
>> Florian
>>
>> Dave  schrieb am Mi., 15. März 2017, 13:26:
>>
>>> To anyone who may be interested:
>>>
>>> Back in 2008 I "/inherited/" the Tutorials for OpenOffice
>>> website/project, but due other life commitments (eg. running a business,
>>> family, etc.) I was never able to make sufficient extra time to do
>>> anything with it, other than simply keeping it alive. In 2010 I
>>> registered the libreofficetutorials.org domain name, with the intention
>>> of creating a similar more extensive website/project for LibreOffice,
>>> "/someday/".  My life commitments have changed and that "/someday/" is
>>> now here.
>>>
>>> Since the early days of OOo I have presented numerous training courses,
>>> initially for OOo and in recent years for LO. During that time I have
>>> accumulated a substantial collection of training/tutorial material about
>>> this software. With the assistance of a small group of colleges, I have
>>> begun preparing content for this new tutorials website based on this
>>> material.
>>>
>>> The basic concept of the proposed website/project can be seen here:
>>> http://www.libreofficetutorials.org/
>>>
>>> This proposal is not intended to compete in any way with the content
>>> (eg. documentation) of the LibreOffice website. On the contrary, as part
>>> of the wider LibreOffice infrastructure it will be complimentary to it.
>>>
>>> While there will always be "/nay-Sayers/" who will respond to this, I
>>> want to hear any genuine objections to this proposal from from TDF
>>> members now, rather than later when more substantial content has been
>>> worked on.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> Dave
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> To unsubscribe e-mail to: discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org
>>> Problems?
>>> http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
>>> Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
>>> List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/
>>> All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be
>>> deleted
>>>
>

-- 
Olivier Hallot
Founding Member,The Document Foundation
The Document Foundation, Kurfürstendamm 188, 10707 - Berlin, Germany
Gemeinnützige rechtsfähige Stiftung des bürgerlichen Rechts
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Re: [tdf-discuss] New Tutorials website

[Dave]

Hi Florian,

It looks like DNS propagation has not complete yet. Try again later.

Regards
Dave

On 15.03.2017 14:17, Florian Reisinger wrote:
> Hi Dave,
>
> I get an error 500 when trying to access the website
>
> Yours,
>
> Florian
>
> Dave  schrieb am Mi., 15. März 2017, 13:26:
>
>> To anyone who may be interested:
>>
>> Back in 2008 I "/inherited/" the Tutorials for OpenOffice
>> website/project, but due other life commitments (eg. running a business,
>> family, etc.) I was never able to make sufficient extra time to do
>> anything with it, other than simply keeping it alive. In 2010 I
>> registered the libreofficetutorials.org domain name, with the intention
>> of creating a similar more extensive website/project for LibreOffice,
>> "/someday/".  My life commitments have changed and that "/someday/" is
>> now here.
>>
>> Since the early days of OOo I have presented numerous training courses,
>> initially for OOo and in recent years for LO. During that time I have
>> accumulated a substantial collection of training/tutorial material about
>> this software. With the assistance of a small group of colleges, I have
>> begun preparing content for this new tutorials website based on this
>> material.
>>
>> The basic concept of the proposed website/project can be seen here:
>> http://www.libreofficetutorials.org/
>>
>> This proposal is not intended to compete in any way with the content
>> (eg. documentation) of the LibreOffice website. On the contrary, as part
>> of the wider LibreOffice infrastructure it will be complimentary to it.
>>
>> While there will always be "/nay-Sayers/" who will respond to this, I
>> want to hear any genuine objections to this proposal from from TDF
>> members now, rather than later when more substantial content has been
>> worked on.
>>
>> Regards
>> Dave
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> To unsubscribe e-mail to: discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org
>> Problems?
>> http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
>> Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
>> List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/
>> All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be
>> deleted
>>


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Re: [tdf-discuss] New Tutorials website

[Florian Reisinger]

Hi Dave,

I get an error 500 when trying to access the website

Yours,

Florian

Dave  schrieb am Mi., 15. März 2017, 13:26:

> To anyone who may be interested:
>
> Back in 2008 I "/inherited/" the Tutorials for OpenOffice
> website/project, but due other life commitments (eg. running a business,
> family, etc.) I was never able to make sufficient extra time to do
> anything with it, other than simply keeping it alive. In 2010 I
> registered the libreofficetutorials.org domain name, with the intention
> of creating a similar more extensive website/project for LibreOffice,
> "/someday/".  My life commitments have changed and that "/someday/" is
> now here.
>
> Since the early days of OOo I have presented numerous training courses,
> initially for OOo and in recent years for LO. During that time I have
> accumulated a substantial collection of training/tutorial material about
> this software. With the assistance of a small group of colleges, I have
> begun preparing content for this new tutorials website based on this
> material.
>
> The basic concept of the proposed website/project can be seen here:
> http://www.libreofficetutorials.org/
>
> This proposal is not intended to compete in any way with the content
> (eg. documentation) of the LibreOffice website. On the contrary, as part
> of the wider LibreOffice infrastructure it will be complimentary to it.
>
> While there will always be "/nay-Sayers/" who will respond to this, I
> want to hear any genuine objections to this proposal from from TDF
> members now, rather than later when more substantial content has been
> worked on.
>
> Regards
> Dave
>
>
>
> --
> To unsubscribe e-mail to: discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org
> Problems?
> http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
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> List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/
> All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be
> deleted
>
-- 

Mit freundlichen Grüßen, | Yours,
Florian Reisinger

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[tdf-discuss] New Tutorials website

[Dave]

To anyone who may be interested:

Back in 2008 I "/inherited/" the Tutorials for OpenOffice
website/project, but due other life commitments (eg. running a business,
family, etc.) I was never able to make sufficient extra time to do
anything with it, other than simply keeping it alive. In 2010 I
registered the libreofficetutorials.org domain name, with the intention
of creating a similar more extensive website/project for LibreOffice,
"/someday/".  My life commitments have changed and that "/someday/" is
now here.

Since the early days of OOo I have presented numerous training courses,
initially for OOo and in recent years for LO. During that time I have
accumulated a substantial collection of training/tutorial material about
this software. With the assistance of a small group of colleges, I have
begun preparing content for this new tutorials website based on this
material.

The basic concept of the proposed website/project can be seen here:
http://www.libreofficetutorials.org/

This proposal is not intended to compete in any way with the content
(eg. documentation) of the LibreOffice website. On the contrary, as part
of the wider LibreOffice infrastructure it will be complimentary to it.

While there will always be "/nay-Sayers/" who will respond to this, I
want to hear any genuine objections to this proposal from from TDF
members now, rather than later when more substantial content has been
worked on.

Regards
Dave



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