Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Adabas database usage

2011-06-17 Thread Marc-André Laverdière
Is there _any_ database that people use that doesn't have a JDBC driver 
at this point?

Maybe we can keep our lives simple by only enabling JDBC drivers?

Marc-André Laverdière
Software Security Scientist
Innovation Labs, Tata Consultancy Services
Hyderabad, India

On 06/12/2011 02:19 AM, Francois Tigeot wrote:

On Sat, Jun 11, 2011 at 01:18:47PM -0700, NoOp wrote:

On 06/11/2011 12:42 PM, Francois Tigeot wrote:

On Sat, Jun 11, 2011 at 11:47:54AM -0700, NoOp wrote:



As far as I know, nobody has used Adabas D since 2004, and the stuff is
proprietary crippleware at best.
There are much better options today if you want to use a serious database
engine.


Then perhaps the driver should be updated to support Adabas 8.2?
http://www.softwareag.com/corporate/products/new_releases/adabas/default.asp


It can't be: the driver is for Adabas D and Adabas (no D) is a different
product.


The Community Edition is version 6.1.8.


This Community Edition is an old, crippled version of the Adabas D
product.
Apart from the name, it has nothing to do with the real Adabas database;
according to Wikipedia, Software AG bought the engine from a different
company and renamed it in the 1990s.

The PDF fact sheet on
http://www.softwareag.com/Corporate/products/adabas/rela_3rd_prod/adad/default.asp
is dated from 2007 and includes a reference to Adabas D 14; with such a
version gap 4 years ago, I can't help believing the community version
has been abandoned ...



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Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Adabas database usage

2011-06-17 Thread Francois Tigeot
On Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 12:06:16PM +0530, Marc-André Laverdière wrote:
 Is there _any_ database that people use that doesn't have a JDBC
 driver at this point?
 Maybe we can keep our lives simple by only enabling JDBC drivers?

Make that ODBC and perhaps JDBC.
Having LibreOffice depending on a Java installation would be suicide.

Java is inherently non-portable and is a real PITA if you don't use
Windows or Linux on i386.
I consider it a deprecated technology and don't intend to support it.

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[tdf-discuss] Re: Adabas database usage

2011-06-17 Thread Alexander Thurgood
Le 17/06/11 08:36, Marc-André Laverdière a écrit :
 Is there _any_ database that people use that doesn't have a JDBC driver
 at this point?
 Maybe we can keep our lives simple by only enabling JDBC drivers?
 


Other than the fact that it would make LibreOffice even more dependent
on Java technologies, which is precisely the opposite direction in which
current evolution of the product is planned, using JDBC within
LibreOffice really sucks when it comes to performance for anything more
than a few thousand tuples, not to mention the various quirks when Java
runtime or JDK versions are changed, either by the user, or the OS
supplier / distributor.


Alex


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Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Adabas database usage

2011-06-15 Thread Francois Tigeot
On Tue, Jun 14, 2011 at 09:02:25PM -0700, aqualung wrote:
 
 Francois Tigeot wrote:
  
  On Sat, Jun 11, 2011 at 10:54:46AM +0200, Francois Tigeot wrote:
  
   You would probably get more input if you posted your question on one of
   the OpenOffice.org forums, in the Base section.
  
  Thanks for the tip, I'll have a look there.
  
  I tried to create an account, and more than 3 hours later I'm still
  waiting
  for the confirmation email.
  It seems the old forum infrastructure is already dying ...
  
 Sorry to hear that, but in fact there is a steady stream of new
 registrations at the forum, and no problems with the infrastructure that I
 am aware of.

That's too bad, I just pushed a patch to disable the native Adabas D driver
this morning. Oh well.

The code has only been disabled, not removed; if there are still some real
users of this driver, it can still be reactivated in a future 3.5.x release.

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[tdf-discuss] Re: Adabas database usage

2011-06-12 Thread Alexander Thurgood
Le 12/06/11 03:04, Uwe Altmann a écrit :

Hi Uwe,


 
 Adabas was bundeled only with StarOffice (never with OOo) - it was one
 of the Add-Ons Star Office had (besides more Gallery entries,
 templates and better spell checking then OOo) in former times. In
 former times refers to OOo 1.* when OOo has no official (=Sun/Star
 Office) Version for Macs; so Adabas connection/driver never had a need
 for Mac support by Sun.

That would explain why I had it for several years, since I decided to
pay for StarOffice through most of its commercial versions, even after
OOo had been launched. At the time I wasn't on the Mac platform though.


 Meanwhile Adabas is a legacy product. I wonder if anyone uses it in a
 productive environment. Surely not on a Mac.
 
 As has been said - whoever need this can stick on an older OOo Version.

I think François has already proposed a patch in master on the developer
list for the config scripts to no longer build the Adabas driver
component module.


Alex


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[tdf-discuss] Re: Adabas database usage

2011-06-11 Thread Alexander Thurgood
Le 10/06/11 18:46, Cor Nouws a écrit :

Hi Cor,

 When creating a new Database, connecting to an existing one, you can
 choose Adabas DB...
 So I guess the code has to do with that?

Well I eventually managed to find a free download of Adabas D for Linux.
The setup is not trivial, even for an individual user (involves setting
up a root account for the db admin, and a separate group, to which all
Adabas users need to be added), and I wonder how many individual users
would actually go to the trouble of installing it now on their personal
computer ?


Alex


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[tdf-discuss] Re: Adabas database usage

2011-06-11 Thread Alexander Thurgood
Le 10/06/11 14:48, Francois Tigeot a écrit :

Hi François,

 
 In the past, some versions of StarOffice were bundled with a limited
 freeware version of the Adabas database engine.
 
 The Adabas support is still present in LibreOffice; howewer, I'm not sure
 if it is still used or if the free (as in beer) Adabas version is still
 available somewhere.
 
 I would like to know if some people still use it, and on which platforms.

You would probably get more input if you posted your question on one of
the OpenOffice.org forums, in the Base section. The response from there
would probably be more representative, as there don't appear to be many
Base users here on this mailing list, or even on the user mailing list.

I suppose the real question is : why do you want to remove it if it
continues to work OK ?

Alex


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Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Adabas database usage

2011-06-11 Thread Francois Tigeot
Hi,

On Sat, Jun 11, 2011 at 09:40:43AM +0200, Alexander Thurgood wrote:
 Le 10/06/11 18:46, Cor Nouws a écrit :
 
  When creating a new Database, connecting to an existing one, you can
  choose Adabas DB...
  So I guess the code has to do with that?
 
 Well I eventually managed to find a free download of Adabas D for Linux.
 The setup is not trivial, even for an individual user (involves setting
 up a root account for the db admin, and a separate group, to which all
 Adabas users need to be added), and I wonder how many individual users
 would actually go to the trouble of installing it now on their personal
 computer ?

Not many, I fear. Most of the user-oriented discussions Adabas D discussions
I found on Google were from before 2004.

Where did you find your download copy ? Is it recent ?
I had a look at the official website here :
http://www.softwareag.com/Corporate/products/adabas/rela_3rd_prod/adad/default.asp
and there's no download link.

The Download free Adabas D license (Personal Edition) text is just that, text.

I had a look at the request a commercial license form; the most recent
operating system in the list is Windows Server 2003. At least one (Tru64) has
been abandonned for years ...

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Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Adabas database usage

2011-06-11 Thread Cor Nouws

Hi Alex,

Alexander Thurgood wrote (11-06-11 09:40)

Well I eventually managed to find a free download of Adabas D for Linux.
The setup is not trivial, even for an individual user (involves setting
up a root account for the db admin, and a separate group, to which all


Whoops - brave!


Adabas users need to be added), and I wonder how many individual users
would actually go to the trouble of installing it now on their personal
computer ?


Very very few, I guess ;-)
But imagine some deployment have an old DB of that type running on a 
server. Could well be, isn't it?



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[tdf-discuss] Re: Adabas database usage

2011-06-11 Thread Alexander Thurgood
Le 11/06/11 10:45, Francois Tigeot a écrit :

Hi François,

 
 Where did you find your download copy ? Is it recent ?
 I had a look at the official website here :
 http://www.softwareag.com/Corporate/products/adabas/rela_3rd_prod/adad/default.asp
 and there's no download link.

Yeah, you have to be a bit sneaky when filling in the form and register
yourself as a private individual - this was the only way I managed to
get a download link to both the Windows and Linux version. If you
register as corporate or give a business name in the requested
identification fields, you get sent an e-mail that tells you where to go
for the download, but it also tells you that you can only get Adabas D
for Windows Vista and Windows 7. Not that System AG want to limit use of
their free product or anything, lol !!

Alex


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[tdf-discuss] Re: Adabas database usage

2011-06-11 Thread Alexander Thurgood
Le 11/06/11 10:49, Cor Nouws a écrit :

Hi Cor,

 
 Very very few, I guess ;-)
 But imagine some deployment have an old DB of that type running on a
 server. Could well be, isn't it?
 

Well the company say that there is a JDBC driver available, so even if
direct support was pulled from LibO, it would still be accessible via
JDBC (in theory).

Alex


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[tdf-discuss] Re: Adabas database usage

2011-06-11 Thread Alexander Thurgood
Le 11/06/11 10:54, Francois Tigeot a écrit :

Hi François,

 Oh, I'm really indifferent about it; what I'm concerned about is the hardcoded
 list of platforms determining whether the client library is build or not.

Agreed.

 
 I'd like to remove this list, and either build the adabas client library for
 all systems or not at all.
 There's no need to have artificial platform differences in the code which make
 porting to new platforms or future maintainance more difficult.
 
 If Adabas D really is abandonware, we could kill two birds with one stone.
 

Agreed again. All platforms or nothing seems fair enough. I don't really
understand why it was never made available for Mac, guess the  owners of
Adabas D never thought it was worthwhile.

Alex


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Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Adabas database usage

2011-06-11 Thread Francois Tigeot
On Sat, Jun 11, 2011 at 10:54:46AM +0200, Francois Tigeot wrote:
 On Sat, Jun 11, 2011 at 09:44:35AM +0200, Alexander Thurgood wrote:
  
  You would probably get more input if you posted your question on one of
  the OpenOffice.org forums, in the Base section.
 
 Thanks for the tip, I'll have a look there.

I tried to create an account, and more than 3 hours later I'm still waiting
for the confirmation email.
It seems the old forum infrastructure is already dying ...

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[tdf-discuss] Re: Adabas database usage

2011-06-11 Thread NoOp
On 06/11/2011 04:47 AM, Francois Tigeot wrote:
...
 
 I think the picture is clear enough; I'll have a word on the developers list
 and try to disable the Adabas D driver.
 

Please don't.

$ cat /etc/adabasrc
DBROOT=/opt/adabas
DBCONFIG=${DBCONFIG:-${HOME}/.adabas}
DBWORK=${DBWORK:-${HOME}/.adabas}
PATH=${PATH:-}${PATH:+:}${DBROOT}/bin:${DBROOT}/pgm
LD_LIBRARY_PATH=${LD_LIBRARY_PATH:-}${LD_LIBRARY_PATH:+:}${DBROOT}/lib
export DBROOT DBWORK DBCONFIG PATH LD_LIBRARY_PATH



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[tdf-discuss] Re: Adabas database usage

2011-06-11 Thread NoOp
On 06/11/2011 01:45 AM, Francois Tigeot wrote:
...
 
 Where did you find your download copy ? Is it recent ?
 I had a look at the official website here :
 http://www.softwareag.com/Corporate/products/adabas/rela_3rd_prod/adad/default.asp
 and there's no download link.
 
 The Download free Adabas D license (Personal Edition) text is just that, 
 text.
 
 I had a look at the request a commercial license form; the most recent
 operating system in the list is Windows Server 2003. At least one (Tru64) has
 been abandonned for years ...
 

Perhaps this is what you are looking for?:
http://www.softwareag.com/corporate/products/adabas_2010/download/default.asp



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Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Adabas database usage

2011-06-11 Thread Francois Tigeot
On Sat, Jun 11, 2011 at 10:41:54AM -0700, NoOp wrote:
 On 06/11/2011 04:47 AM, Francois Tigeot wrote:
  
  I think the picture is clear enough; I'll have a word on the developers list
  and try to disable the Adabas D driver.
 
 Please don't.
 
 $ cat /etc/adabasrc
 DBROOT=/opt/adabas
[...]

Does this mean you're using Adabas D with LibreOffice ?

If this is the case, I'll have a go at enabling it everywhere.

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[tdf-discuss] Re: Adabas database usage

2011-06-11 Thread NoOp
On 06/11/2011 11:02 AM, Francois Tigeot wrote:
 On Sat, Jun 11, 2011 at 10:41:54AM -0700, NoOp wrote:
 On 06/11/2011 04:47 AM, Francois Tigeot wrote:
  
  I think the picture is clear enough; I'll have a word on the developers 
  list
  and try to disable the Adabas D driver.
 
 Please don't.
 
 $ cat /etc/adabasrc
 DBROOT=/opt/adabas
 [...]
 
 Does this mean you're using Adabas D with LibreOffice ?
 
 If this is the case, I'll have a go at enabling it everywhere.
 

I'd experimented with Adabas D with OpenOffice.org. Unfortunately, I
can't test with LO due to not being able to use *any* data source:
https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=32948



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Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Adabas database usage

2011-06-11 Thread Francois Tigeot
On Sat, Jun 11, 2011 at 11:47:54AM -0700, NoOp wrote:
 
 I'd experimented with Adabas D with OpenOffice.org. Unfortunately, I
 can't test with LO due to not being able to use *any* data source:
 https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=32948

I'm sorry but if this is only for an experiment, I don't see the point in
keeping the library driver.

As far as I know, nobody has used Adabas D since 2004, and the stuff is
proprietary crippleware at best.
There are much better options today if you want to use a serious database
engine.

Please note that even if the native Adabas D driver is disabled, you can
still use the database engine with the JDBC or the ODBC driver:

http://documentation.softwareag.com/adabas/aad1514/ineteng/chapter6.htm
http://documentation.softwareag.com/adabas/aad1513/unxuseng/uxodbc.htm

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[tdf-discuss] Re: Adabas database usage

2011-06-11 Thread NoOp
On 06/11/2011 12:42 PM, Francois Tigeot wrote:
 On Sat, Jun 11, 2011 at 11:47:54AM -0700, NoOp wrote:
 
 I'd experimented with Adabas D with OpenOffice.org. Unfortunately, I
 can't test with LO due to not being able to use *any* data source:
 https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=32948
 
 I'm sorry but if this is only for an experiment, I don't see the point in
 keeping the library driver.

Valid point. I seem to recall that I installed it with StarOffice.

 
 As far as I know, nobody has used Adabas D since 2004, and the stuff is
 proprietary crippleware at best.
 There are much better options today if you want to use a serious database
 engine.

Then perhaps the driver should be updated to support Adabas 8.2?
http://www.softwareag.com/corporate/products/new_releases/adabas/default.asp

The Community Edition is version 6.1.8.

 
 Please note that even if the native Adabas D driver is disabled, you can
 still use the database engine with the JDBC or the ODBC driver:
 
 http://documentation.softwareag.com/adabas/aad1514/ineteng/chapter6.htm
 http://documentation.softwareag.com/adabas/aad1513/unxuseng/uxodbc.htm
 

Thanks.




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Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Adabas database usage

2011-06-11 Thread Francois Tigeot
On Sat, Jun 11, 2011 at 01:18:47PM -0700, NoOp wrote:
 On 06/11/2011 12:42 PM, Francois Tigeot wrote:
  On Sat, Jun 11, 2011 at 11:47:54AM -0700, NoOp wrote:

  As far as I know, nobody has used Adabas D since 2004, and the stuff is
  proprietary crippleware at best.
  There are much better options today if you want to use a serious database
  engine.
 
 Then perhaps the driver should be updated to support Adabas 8.2?
 http://www.softwareag.com/corporate/products/new_releases/adabas/default.asp

It can't be: the driver is for Adabas D and Adabas (no D) is a different
product.

 The Community Edition is version 6.1.8.

This Community Edition is an old, crippled version of the Adabas D
product.
Apart from the name, it has nothing to do with the real Adabas database;
according to Wikipedia, Software AG bought the engine from a different
company and renamed it in the 1990s.

The PDF fact sheet on
http://www.softwareag.com/Corporate/products/adabas/rela_3rd_prod/adad/default.asp
is dated from 2007 and includes a reference to Adabas D 14; with such a
version gap 4 years ago, I can't help believing the community version
has been abandoned ...

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Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Adabas database usage

2011-06-11 Thread Uwe Altmann
Hi Alex, *

Am 11.06.11 11:28, schrieb Alexander Thurgood:
 Agreed again. All platforms or nothing seems fair enough. I don't really
 understand why it was never made available for Mac, guess the  owners of
 Adabas D never thought it was worthwhile.

Adabas was bundeled only with StarOffice (never with OOo) - it was one
of the Add-Ons Star Office had (besides more Gallery entries,
templates and better spell checking then OOo) in former times. In
former times refers to OOo 1.* when OOo has no official (=Sun/Star
Office) Version for Macs; so Adabas connection/driver never had a need
for Mac support by Sun.
Meanwhile Adabas is a legacy product. I wonder if anyone uses it in a
productive environment. Surely not on a Mac.

As has been said - whoever need this can stick on an older OOo Version.
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[tdf-discuss] Re: Adabas database usage

2011-06-10 Thread Alexander Thurgood
Le 10/06/11 14:48, Francois Tigeot a écrit :

Hi François

 
 In the past, some versions of StarOffice were bundled with a limited
 freeware version of the Adabas database engine.
 
 The Adabas support is still present in LibreOffice; howewer, I'm not sure
 if it is still used or if the free (as in beer) Adabas version is still
 available somewhere.
 
 I would like to know if some people still use it, and on which platforms.

If it is there in the code, it can not be seen anywhere in the UI that I
know of, so to all intents and purposes, users are unaware that it is
actually there. I seem to recall that it was phased out of the UI
sometime during the development of the new Base module with integration
of HSQLDB, i.e. somewhere between OOo 1.1.x and OOo 2.x

I would expect that most people here, if they didn't know
StarOffice/OpenOffice.org from the beginning, would probably not even
know that there was Adabas support floating around, and indeed, as I
said, I thought that Adabas no longer worked with OOo/LibO.


Alex


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[tdf-discuss] Re: Adabas database usage

2011-06-10 Thread Alexander Thurgood
Le 10/06/11 14:48, Francois Tigeot a écrit :

Me again,

 
 In the past, some versions of StarOffice were bundled with a limited
 freeware version of the Adabas database engine.
 
 The Adabas support is still present in LibreOffice; howewer, I'm not sure
 if it is still used or if the free (as in beer) Adabas version is still
 available somewhere.
 
 I would like to know if some people still use it, and on which platforms.


I've just checked on Mac OSX and Adabas is not in the list of available
db engines to which a user can connect. So, I can only assume that the
only current way to do this in LibreOffice would be via macros or some
other scripting language (if that) ?

Additionally, the community edition of Adabas is only available for
Windows Vista and 7 users, I just went over to Software AG's website and
checked.

However, looking at the code in the adabas directory in my git repo
shows that it could be used as an example for people wanting to develop
their own C++ driver implementation for other similar db engines
(Firebird anyone ?) I know currently that you can find some stuff in
skeleton, but since the mysql connector was implemented, the word from
OOo devs was to use the mysql stuff as an example - perhaps the adabas
stuff is just obsolete ?


Alex


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Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Adabas database usage

2011-06-10 Thread Cor Nouws

Alexander Thurgood wrote (10-06-11 17:27)


If it is there in the code, it can not be seen anywhere in the UI that I
know of,


When creating a new Database, connecting to an existing one, you can 
choose Adabas DB...

So I guess the code has to do with that?

Regards,
--
 - Cor
 - http://nl.libreoffice.org


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Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Adabas database usage

2011-06-10 Thread Francois Tigeot
Hi Alex,

On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 05:39:34PM +0200, Alexander Thurgood wrote:
 Le 10/06/11 14:48, Francois Tigeot a écrit :
 
  The Adabas support is still present in LibreOffice; howewer, I'm not sure
  if it is still used or if the free (as in beer) Adabas version is still
  available somewhere.
  
  I would like to know if some people still use it, and on which platforms.
 
 I've just checked on Mac OSX and Adabas is not in the list of available
 db engines to which a user can connect. So, I can only assume that the
 only current way to do this in LibreOffice would be via macros or some
 other scripting language (if that) ?

I'm not surprised you didn't find anything on Mac OSX: Adabas D support is
only enabled on Windows NT and its descendants, Linux, Solaris Sparc and
NetBSD.

 Additionally, the community edition of Adabas is only available for
 Windows Vista and 7 users, I just went over to Software AG's website and
 checked.
[...] 
 perhaps the adabas stuff is just obsolete ?

This is what I'm trying to find out; the hardcoded list of platforms where
it is enabled doesn't make sense.

I'll have a word on the developpers channel; if nobody uses it anymore, I
don't see why we couldn't disable Adabas D support everywhere.

-- 
Francois Tigeot

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[tdf-discuss] Re: Adabas database usage

2011-06-10 Thread Alexander Thurgood
Le 10/06/11 18:46, Cor Nouws a écrit :

Hi Cor,

 If it is there in the code, it can not be seen anywhere in the UI that I
 know of,
 
 When creating a new Database, connecting to an existing one, you can
 choose Adabas DB...
 So I guess the code has to do with that?

It is not available on the Mac, unfortunately, and apparently from my
records, never was. Currently, the only version of Adabas available for
free is a Community Version that runs on Windows Vista and Windows 7, at
least that is what I found out from the Systems AG website.


Alex


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