Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Top Posting... Can we have an LO Mailing List Guidelines Page?
Le 10/09/11 13:31, Ken Springer a écrit : Seriously, though, I checked the source for your message, and we both are using Thunderbird 6. Within the last week, I learned about the QuoteCollapse add-on. It takes each quoted section of a reply, and collapses it to one line. There's a little plus sign that will let you expand that section to full length. It's great for those posts where there's been no trimming, but lots of replies. At this point, this add-on would seem to eliminate the need of trimming, too. Add it to your TB, I'd like to know what you think of it. It may do a lot to solve your issues and concerns. If the author for Quote Colors would make that add-on compatible with TB 6, then replying would be easier, IMO. I've used Quote Colors for quite some time, at each update of TB I get error messages, then mysteriously all starts to work again within a couple of days without any intervention from my part, and without an update to QC (is working at the moment). regards -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Top Posting... Can we have an LO Mailing List Guidelines Page?
On 2011-10-20 4:52 AM, Mélodie melodie.hes...@free.fr wrote: I've used Quote Colors for quite some time, at each update of TB I get error messages, then mysteriously all starts to work again within a couple of days without any intervention from my part, and without an update to QC (is working at the moment). It is called a compatibility update... -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Top Posting... Can we have an LO Mailing List Guidelines Page?
Hi, Just to add to the mix. My email client on android always makes me top-post, adding the original post on the bottom. It is interesting that people take the posting style so personally when they have not got enough information. It is quite alright to give me (or people who use Androids) special dispensation, if you want to, but that is not the point. What gives anybody the right to rag about others' correspondence style, really? These are people. not machines. The reader is unlikely to hard crash when presented with an unexpected top post, or hang until reboot when presented with the awful interspersed answer style. Personally, I would rather see a person's answer at the top of the post, and if I am unsure of the context, I can read the (usually un-pruned) previous message string below. Happy Monday, Wolf -- This Apt Has Super Cow Powers - http://sourcefreedom.com -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
RE: [tdf-discuss] Re: Top Posting... Can we have an LO Mailing List Guidelines Page?
Dear Dennis, On Sun, October 2, 2011 22:00, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote: Mark, I think my question was concrete and very clear: How about you just read the goddamn RFC's for email protocol and stop whining about it? Which RFC's are you talking about? Numbers please. I don't see how RFC 1885 can be meant. RFC 1885 is one of the inspirations for the document foundation netiquette page: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette These guidelines have been inspired by Mozilla Posting Guidelines, with important additions from http://linux.sgms-centre.com/misc/netiquette.php and http://www.woodgate.org/FAQs/netiquette.html. Original Netiquette guidelines: http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1855. Netiquette on Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netiquette. Other useful information about the Netiquette: http://www.livinginternet.com/i/ia_nq.htm.; They are just guidelines, but ones which are generally considered good practice on mailing lists. Please read them and try to follow them as much as possible to keep discussions as pleasant and productive. With respect to your question on top-vs-bottom-posting, the netiquette gives a guideline, it is best to just follow that and use some tools that facilitate the bottom-post/interspersed-style. And please refer to the section on Let Sleeping Dogs Lie. We all have out pet-peeves that we would like to discuss and rehash indefinitely. Please resist the urge. Thanks, Mark -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Top Posting... Can we have an LO Mailing List Guidelines Page?
How about you just read the goddamn RFC's for email protocol and stop whining about it? On 01/10/2011 23:26, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote: orcmid comments-in-line=true / -Original Message- From: Tim Schofield [mailto:t...@weberpafrica.com] Sent: Saturday, October 01, 2011 14:03 To: discuss@documentfoundation.org Subject: Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Top Posting... Can we have an LO Mailing List Guidelines Page? On 30 September 2011 02:46, NoOp gl...@sbcglobal.net wrote: I must say that I *am* surprised that LO haven't the technical/political ability/tenacity to properly post information regarding this issue in the same manner as the links provided (OOo, Mozilla, Ubuntu, et al). It may be possible they have important things to do? orcmid How about a monthly FAQ message that establishes what constitutes appropriate etiquette? This should be customized for each list separately. There could be all facts applicable to the specific list, including the ever-popular unsubscribe instructions, what the subject matter of the list is, writing subject lines, finding other places to play and additional sources, etc. It would be good to say what actions arouse moderator actions and that nothing else does. /orcmid -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
RE: [tdf-discuss] Re: Top Posting... Can we have an LO Mailing List Guidelines Page?
Which RFC's are you talking about? Numbers please. - Dennis -Original Message- From: Mark Preston [mailto:m...@mpreston.demon.co.uk] Sent: Sunday, October 02, 2011 06:12 To: discuss@documentfoundation.org Subject: Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Top Posting... Can we have an LO Mailing List Guidelines Page? How about you just read the goddamn RFC's for email protocol and stop whining about it? [ ... ] -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
RE: [tdf-discuss] Re: Top Posting... Can we have an LO Mailing List Guidelines Page?
Hi, On Sun, October 2, 2011 20:29, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote: How about you just read the goddamn RFC's for email protocol and stop whining about it? Which RFC's are you talking about? Numbers please. Please don't top-post (fixed it for you in this message). I assume the reference is to basic netiquette, which is RFC 1885. But for this list, please refer to (which is also in the mailinglist footer): http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette Thanks, Mark -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
RE: [tdf-discuss] Re: Top Posting... Can we have an LO Mailing List Guidelines Page?
Mark, I think my question was concrete and very clear: How about you just read the goddamn RFC's for email protocol and stop whining about it? Which RFC's are you talking about? Numbers please. I don't see how RFC 1885 can be meant. It says nothing about in-line, bottom, or top. Well, it says a little about how to do top-posting properly, depending on how you read this part: - If you are sending a reply to a message or a posting be sure you summarize the original at the top of the message, or include just enough text of the original to give a context. This will make sure readers understand when they start to read your response. Since NetNews, especially, is proliferated by distributing the postings from one host to another, it is possible to see a response to a message before seeing the original. Giving context helps everyone. But do not include the entire original! I need to do that better. NetNews (NNTP) is not being used here at [tdf-discuss], and there are other things that are so 1995 in RFC 1885 (which is also not an IETF Standard, for those who like to use the standard word). But that is the extent of what it says about organizing replies to lists and news groups. (I am more concerned about [libreoffice-users] hostility, though.) There are other things, such as - Limit line length to fewer than 65 characters and end a line with a carriage return. which made a lot of sense if you were using an ASCII terminal or a TTY printer. If someone tells me it is critical to using a brailler or text-to-speech today, I will pay a lot more attention. - Dennis E. Hamilton tools for document interoperability, http://nfoWorks.org/ dennis.hamil...@acm.org gsm: +1-206-779-9430 @orcmid -Original Message- From: Mark Wielaard [mailto:m...@klomp.org] Sent: Sunday, October 02, 2011 11:59 To: discuss@documentfoundation.org Subject: RE: [tdf-discuss] Re: Top Posting... Can we have an LO Mailing List Guidelines Page? Hi, On Sun, October 2, 2011 20:29, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote: How about you just read the goddamn RFC's for email protocol and stop whining about it? Which RFC's are you talking about? Numbers please. Please don't top-post (fixed it for you in this message). I assume the reference is to basic netiquette, which is RFC 1885. But for this list, please refer to (which is also in the mailinglist footer): http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette Thanks, Mark -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Top Posting... Can we have an LO Mailing List Guidelines Page?
On 30 September 2011 02:46, NoOp gl...@sbcglobal.net wrote: I must say that I *am* surprised that LO haven't the technical/political ability/tenacity to properly post information regarding this issue in the same manner as the links provided (OOo, Mozilla, Ubuntu, et al). It may be possible they have important things to do? -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
RE: [tdf-discuss] Re: Top Posting... Can we have an LO Mailing List Guidelines Page?
orcmid comments-in-line=true / -Original Message- From: Tim Schofield [mailto:t...@weberpafrica.com] Sent: Saturday, October 01, 2011 14:03 To: discuss@documentfoundation.org Subject: Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Top Posting... Can we have an LO Mailing List Guidelines Page? On 30 September 2011 02:46, NoOp gl...@sbcglobal.net wrote: I must say that I *am* surprised that LO haven't the technical/political ability/tenacity to properly post information regarding this issue in the same manner as the links provided (OOo, Mozilla, Ubuntu, et al). It may be possible they have important things to do? orcmid How about a monthly FAQ message that establishes what constitutes appropriate etiquette? This should be customized for each list separately. There could be all facts applicable to the specific list, including the ever-popular unsubscribe instructions, what the subject matter of the list is, writing subject lines, finding other places to play and additional sources, etc. It would be good to say what actions arouse moderator actions and that nothing else does. /orcmid -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Top Posting... Can we have an LO Mailing List Guidelines Page?
Hi Gary, NoOp wrote (30-09-11 03:46) After all that + discussions on the -user list it seems that LO doesn't really care to provide any specific rules/regulations/FAQ regarding Top/Interspersed/Bottom posting on any of their lists. [...] Has not yet been forgotten. But to manage expectations: it won't be a medicine for all cures you know ;-) -- - Cor - http://nl.libreoffice.org -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Top Posting... Can we have an LO Mailing List Guidelines Page?
On 2011-09-12 8:42 PM, Robert Holtzman hol...@cox.net wrote: On Mon, Sep 12, 2011 at 05:06:49PM -0400, Tanstaafl wrote: On 2011-09-11 9:47 PM, Ken Springersnowsh...@q.com wrote: Even if they did push it through, if no one enforces the eventual rule, the time will be wasted. I'd prefer interspersion, as I almost always have to scroll around somewhere in order to remember what was being replied to. Most people who advocate for bottom posting really mean inline, aka 'interspersed' posting anyway... I think you will find that most people are smart enough to know the difference. I think you overestimate the intelligence of 'most people'. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Top Posting... Can we have an LO Mailing List Guidelines Page?
On 2011-09-10 7:31 AM, Ken Springer snowsh...@q.com wrote: At this point, this add-on would seem to eliminate the need of trimming, too. No, no, NO... trimming should still be required. All QuoteCollapse does is spare me a lot of pain when I encounter morons who refuse to trim posts... -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Top Posting... Can we have an LO Mailing List Guidelines Page?
On 2011-09-11 9:47 PM, Ken Springer snowsh...@q.com wrote: Even if they did push it through, if no one enforces the eventual rule, the time will be wasted. I'd prefer interspersion, as I almost always have to scroll around somewhere in order to remember what was being replied to. Most people who advocate for bottom posting really mean inline, aka 'interspersed' posting anyway... -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Top Posting... Can we have an LO Mailing List Guidelines Page?
On Mon, Sep 12, 2011 at 05:06:49PM -0400, Tanstaafl wrote: On 2011-09-11 9:47 PM, Ken Springer snowsh...@q.com wrote: Even if they did push it through, if no one enforces the eventual rule, the time will be wasted. I'd prefer interspersion, as I almost always have to scroll around somewhere in order to remember what was being replied to. Most people who advocate for bottom posting really mean inline, aka 'interspersed' posting anyway... I think you will find that most people are smart enough to know the difference. -- Bob Holtzman If you think you're getting free lunch, check the price of the beer. Key ID: 8D549279 -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Top Posting... Can we have an LO Mailing List Guidelines Page?
On Sat, Sep 10, 2011 at 05:31:50AM -0600, Ken Springer wrote: ..snip. At this point, this add-on would seem to eliminate the need of trimming, too. Of course that would screw non-TB users. snip -- Bob Holtzman If you think you're getting free lunch, check the price of the beer. Key ID: 8D549279 -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Top Posting... Can we have an LO Mailing List Guidelines Page?
On 09/09/2011 06:05 PM, Ken Springer wrote: On 9/9/11 3:40 PM, Andrew Douglas Pitonyak wrote: The links do not lead me to assume that top posting is expected. If the documentation group desires bottom posting only, the user should be informed when the register. Even then, I expect that most people will miss it. Expecting someone to follow a link and then follow another link seems a wee bit unlikely. Bottom posting is great when a message is not read in context of the other messages. When I read threaded messages, it is annoying to wade through the message history before I arrive at the content of interest. I might prefer, therefore, that people be prodded into seriously shortening content from all previous posters to only contain the portions relevant to their reply. If you read the Learn to Quote link on the netiquette page, it gets into why bottom posting and interspersion is or should be the desired way. Read it many times. I remain unconvinced. Their points assume a single style of reading email. I read my email in a threaded view. Usually, I have already read everything but the latest reply, so, the the top portion of the message is not required (and is therefore ignored). Unfortunately, it is common for there to be so much of the message included, that I need to scroll to view the new text. In other words, it is less efficient and it wastes my time. (to put it into context, I have counted the steps required to get to my car when I leave work by different routes) I receive a very large volume of email. It is usually less than 1000 messages a day, but, still, the time and physical movements to scroll to the bottom of each message is sufficient to stress my wrists and hands. So, if I can skim the new content in less than two seconds, and it takes me longer than that to even get to the new content, well, then I more than double the time I spend skimming email. The bigger concern for me is neither bottom nor top posting, it is trimming the message if you do not top post. With a top post, I can trivially see the response. But like you, I think the LO people need to specify it directly on the page, even better would be for them to actually write their own netiquette page. If they care, they should write it. Yes. -- Andrew Pitonyak My Macro Document: http://www.pitonyak.org/AndrewMacro.odt Info: http://www.pitonyak.org/oo.php -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
