Re: [tdf-discuss] Can we replace Floppy Disk
I like the floppy icon. HDD icon is being broadly used nowadays, but as somebody pointed in this thread, not every user is familiar with computer inside, so changing from one thing that they haven't seen to another one which they also haven't seen doesn't make much sense. Optical drive icon is a bad variant because people usually do not save the documents directly to the optical drive; instead they usually tend to associate the CD icon with CD/DVD burning process. USB icon is also not a better solution, because not every user knows what this sign means (although they probably can see it on many different devices). In any case, the traditional Foppy icon just works. Why changing something that works? The policy of making changes for their own sake does not seem a good one to me. Just my thoughts. Regards, Vladimir - v...@ukr.net -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Can we replace Floppy Disk
On 11 January 2012 22:15, v...@ukr.net wrote: I like the floppy icon. HDD icon is being broadly used nowadays, but as somebody pointed in this thread, not every user is familiar with computer inside, so changing from one thing that they haven't seen to another one which they also haven't seen doesn't make much sense. Optical drive icon is a bad variant because people usually do not save the documents directly to the optical drive; instead they usually tend to associate the CD icon with CD/DVD burning process. USB icon is also not a better solution, because not every user knows what this sign means (although they probably can see it on many different devices). In any case, the traditional Foppy icon just works. Why changing something that works? The policy of making changes for their own sake does not seem a good one to me. Just my thoughts. Regards, Vladimir I will just repeat what I said near the start of this thread. I use Ubuntu 11.10 and with its Humanity theme come a set of icons which includes, for the Save icon, a representation of hard drive with a broad green down arrow on top of it. Until this thread started, I did not even realise that I had an icon that was different from the traditional 'floppy disk'. The fact that it is positioned where I would expect the Save icon to be (third from left after the New and Open icons) with a tool tip that says 'Save' was sufficient for me to accept it as the Save icon without any conscious effort. I'm not making any proposal here for changing the Save icon. I'm just trying to use my experience as evidence that we don't have to stick with an antiquated floppy disk icon just because its the thing that everyone knows is the Save icon. Tony -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Can we replace Floppy Disk
Hello! On Wed, 11 Jan 2012 23:26:16 + Tony Pursell a...@princeswalk.fsnet.co.uk wrote: I'm not making any proposal here for changing the Save icon. I'm just trying to use my experience as evidence that we don't have to stick with an antiquated floppy disk icon just because its the thing that everyone knows is the Save icon. Sure we don't *have* to, but ... why not? By the way, if there is a way for the user to choose the icon set, what are the reasons to change the default style? I mean, not from aesthetic point of view, but from a practical one. Regards, Vladimir - v...@ukr.net -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Can we replace Floppy Disk
On Fri, Dec 30, 2011 at 11:06 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton dennis.hamil...@acm.org wrote: Although not paying sufficient homage to the brilliant Umberto Eco, it would seem that having good tool tips would matter for both the icons (which are often quite tiny) and for accessibility reasons. And the internationalization of the tool tips may be rather important. Without having read the article: Don't forget that we are not talking about icons in general here, but about toolbar-buttons. The what does it do question of course requires a tooltip, that is not the question, but a toolbar-button has a much more important meaning than the metaphor behind: * It saves place. * You can distinguish images much faster than you can distinguish text * after a while you don't even have to distinguish icons anymore, you remember the position anyway, since you use the function so often, look at the toolbar all the time. Ultimately it doesn't matter what the icon depicts unless you can clearly distinguish it from the other ones. As mentioned: Even when people don't recognize the save-icon as a floppy, but as a TV - they don't have any problem with associating When I click on that button, the documents gets saved. The floppy-icon has the benefit of being used in other applications as well, so when they know how to save in wordpad using the toolbar, they'll know how to save in LO using the toolbar. It would also be good that the default arrangement of the icons not change, no matter what the symbols/images are. Exactly. Or better: Changing both the appearance as well as the arrangement at the same time is a big no-no. ciao Christian -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Can we replace Floppy Disk
On 28/12/2011 Norbert Thiebaud wrote: On Wed, Dec 28, 2011 at 1:05 PM, Danishka Navin wrote: Why we still continue the Floppy Disk as the icon for Save button in LibreOffice? When was the last time you saw a phone that look like http://iphonestudio.co.uk/images/uber_iphone_phone_logo.jpg Ironically that 70 years old design is still used on IPhone and others modern cell-phone to indicate: 'telephone' Indeed. An icon is just a convention to convey a meaning and it should not necessarily be a representation of reality. One doesn't usually look for words in a document using a binocular or a magnifying glass, but people can easily associate these icons to Find. For those who want to practice their Italian or stress-test machine translation, here's a nice short and funny article from 1996 by the famous writer Umberto Eco: Icons everywhere? No thanks, I can read. http://tecfa.unige.ch/staf/staf9597/beltrame/STAF13/eco.html Regards, Andrea. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Can we replace Floppy Disk
2011/12/30 Andrea Pescetti pesce...@openoffice.org On 28/12/2011 Norbert Thiebaud wrote: On Wed, Dec 28, 2011 at 1:05 PM, Danishka Navin wrote: Why we still continue the Floppy Disk as the icon for Save button in LibreOffice? When was the last time you saw a phone that look like http://iphonestudio.co.uk/**images/uber_iphone_phone_logo.**jpghttp://iphonestudio.co.uk/images/uber_iphone_phone_logo.jpg Ironically that 70 years old design is still used on IPhone and others modern cell-phone to indicate: 'telephone' Indeed. An icon is just a convention to convey a meaning and it should not necessarily be a representation of reality. One doesn't usually look for words in a document using a binocular or a magnifying glass, but people can easily associate these icons to Find. For those who want to practice their Italian or stress-test machine translation, here's a nice short and funny article from 1996 by the famous writer Umberto Eco: Icons everywhere? No thanks, I can read. http://tecfa.unige.ch/staf/**staf9597/beltrame/STAF13/eco.**htmlhttp://tecfa.unige.ch/staf/staf9597/beltrame/STAF13/eco.html Regards, Andrea. As a counter to Professor Eco's brief - and as always in his case, witty critique of icons, may I suggest that interested users test his conclusions by launching Writer, clicking Tools and selecting Customise and then Toolbars, clicking the Toolbar button and finally selecting «Text only». * Pace* Professor Eco, but I suspect that all who do so will immediately reselect «Icons only» Henri -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
RE: [tdf-discuss] Can we replace Floppy Disk
Although not paying sufficient homage to the brilliant Umberto Eco, it would seem that having good tool tips would matter for both the icons (which are often quite tiny) and for accessibility reasons. And the internationalization of the tool tips may be rather important. It would also be good that the default arrangement of the icons not change, no matter what the symbols/images are. - Dennis -Original Message- From: Andrea Pescetti [mailto:pesce...@openoffice.org] Sent: Friday, December 30, 2011 12:21 To: discuss@documentfoundation.org Subject: Re: [tdf-discuss] Can we replace Floppy Disk On 28/12/2011 Norbert Thiebaud wrote: On Wed, Dec 28, 2011 at 1:05 PM, Danishka Navin wrote: Why we still continue the Floppy Disk as the icon for Save button in LibreOffice? When was the last time you saw a phone that look like http://iphonestudio.co.uk/images/uber_iphone_phone_logo.jpg Ironically that 70 years old design is still used on IPhone and others modern cell-phone to indicate: 'telephone' Indeed. An icon is just a convention to convey a meaning and it should not necessarily be a representation of reality. One doesn't usually look for words in a document using a binocular or a magnifying glass, but people can easily associate these icons to Find. For those who want to practice their Italian or stress-test machine translation, here's a nice short and funny article from 1996 by the famous writer Umberto Eco: Icons everywhere? No thanks, I can read. http://tecfa.unige.ch/staf/staf9597/beltrame/STAF13/eco.html Regards, Andrea. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
