Re: [tdf-discuss] user forums ?
Hi, At 05:52 10-11-2011, Augustine Souza wrote: For the new forum ... My request is that background images for functional content be kept to a minimum for reasons of accessibility. Some people may want to have a different color for the page background because they find white painful. (There are such people.) I would like to add a few more accessibility considerations: * If phpBB is chosen for the forum, please take a look at http://www.accessifyforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=17254: An accessible style for PhpBB. (You can also get in touch with the owners of AccessifyForum, which is based on phpBB.) * Another forum solution with good accessibility out of the box is PunBB http://punbb.informer.com/. Best regards, Christophe If the person uses css to change the background color, many background images are no longer visible. This is quite common with phpBB. Buttons such as new post or quote or reply disappear when the background color is changed using css. There maybe workarounds such as the alt tag but that's no longer pretty. If anyone is interested I can give a couple of examples. -- Christophe Strobbe K.U.Leuven - Dept. of Electrical Engineering - SCD Research Group on Document Architectures Kasteelpark Arenberg 10 bus 2442 B-3001 Leuven-Heverlee BELGIUM tel: +32 16 32 85 51 -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] user forums ?
Hello, Christophe Strobbe wrote on 2011-11-14 11:11: I would like to add a few more accessibility considerations: * If phpBB is chosen for the forum, please take a look at http://www.accessifyforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=17254: An accessible style for PhpBB. (You can also get in touch with the owners of AccessifyForum, which is based on phpBB.) * Another forum solution with good accessibility out of the box is PunBB http://punbb.informer.com/. we should move over this discussion to the website@ list, as people are collecting the forum software there. Florian -- Florian Effenberger flo...@documentfoundation.org Board of Directors at The Document Foundation Tel: +49 8341 99660880 | Mobile: +49 151 14424108 Skype: floeff | Twitter/Identi.ca: @floeff -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] user forums ?
On 08/11/2011 Cor Nouws wrote: For some time, I could personally live quite well with a forum that is clearly, visibly, independent serving LibreOffice and other suites. Since suggestions made in that direction seem to be more political than technical feasible, I can leave that illusion. Does this refer to my answers? If it does, then it seems I failed to convey the message: I've always written that the technical execution would have been so easy to be negligible in discussions. So the technical feasibility had never been questioned: it would have been trivial to implement it (read: it takes less than one hour to do it). The main problem would thus have been political, i.e., getting people agree on it. Of course this is only meant as a clarification in case my messages were not clear enough; I don't want to reopen this discussion. Regards, Andrea. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] user forums ?
Hi Andrea, Andrea Pescetti wrote (11-11-11 10:38) On 08/11/2011 Cor Nouws wrote: For some time, I could personally live quite well with a forum that is clearly, visibly, independent serving LibreOffice and other suites. Since suggestions made in that direction seem to be more political than technical feasible, I can leave that illusion. Does this refer to my answers? Partly. If it does, then it seems I failed to convey the message: I've always written that the technical execution would have been so easy to be negligible in discussions. So the technical feasibility had never been questioned: it would have been trivial to implement it (read: it takes less than one hour to do it). Someone else explained that a good technical solution, also with a different look, is no real option. You must have noticed that post. Regards, -- - Cor - http://nl.libreoffice.org -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] user forums ?
Le 11/11/2011 11:06, Cor Nouws a écrit : Hi Andrea, [...] Someone else explained that a good technical solution, also with a different look, is no real option. You must have noticed that post. Really ? Please have a look at : http://forum.ubuntu-fr.org/viewforum.php?id=13 and http://forum.kubuntu-fr.org/viewforum.php?id=13 Best regards. JBF -- Seuls des formats ouverts peuvent assurer la pérennité de vos documents. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] user forums ?
On Fri, 2011-11-11 at 11:24 +0100, Jean-Baptiste Faure wrote: Le 11/11/2011 11:06, Cor Nouws a écrit : Hi Andrea, [...] Someone else explained that a good technical solution, also with a different look, is no real option. You must have noticed that post. Really ? Please have a look at : http://forum.ubuntu-fr.org/viewforum.php?id=13 and http://forum.kubuntu-fr.org/viewforum.php?id=13 Best regards. So, no argument here that DNS based themes are baked into the platforms Good day all, No argument here that DNS based themes are baked into the platforms. The shared content however - I submit it is not so easy to see how this easily and successfully works out. For instance - let's say that a user has come looking for help and as it turns out the problem the user is having turns out to be in fact a defect with the software...at this point I would hope that the individual(s) helping this person out would offer to this user a quick pointer on how to enter this into our defect tracking system - just some links. So - I'm assuming that when user A (let's call her Sarah) came into the forum it was via our libreoffice address. She found a nice LibreOffice branded site - [quick question - we would have some type of pinned information about such things on the forum, and of course this content would need to change along with our them..yes] Now user B (let's call her Barb) is a long time OpenOffice.org user and quite happy Apache OpenOffice user, so naturally she came in using the AOO [u.s.oo.o] address - which again, naturally, displays a nice blue theme and a sticky post about reporting bugs... See where I'm going here? I'll stop here on this subject, for this email. Best wishes, //drew -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] user forums ?
On Fri, 2011-11-11 at 08:10 -0500, drew wrote: On Fri, 2011-11-11 at 11:24 +0100, Jean-Baptiste Faure wrote: Le 11/11/2011 11:06, Cor Nouws a écrit : Hi Andrea, [...] Someone else explained that a good technical solution, also with a different look, is no real option. You must have noticed that post. Really ? Please have a look at : http://forum.ubuntu-fr.org/viewforum.php?id=13 and http://forum.kubuntu-fr.org/viewforum.php?id=13 Best regards. So, no argument here that DNS based themes are baked into the platforms Good day all, No argument here that DNS based themes are baked into the platforms. The shared content however - I submit it is not so easy to see how this easily and successfully works out. For instance - let's say that a user has come looking for help and as it turns out the problem the user is having turns out to be in fact a defect with the software...at this point I would hope that the individual(s) helping this person out would offer to this user a quick pointer on how to enter this into our defect tracking system - just some links. So - I'm assuming that when user A (let's call her Sarah) came into the forum it was via our libreoffice address. She found a nice LibreOffice branded site - [quick question - we would have some type of pinned information about such things on the forum, and of course this content would need to change along with our them..yes] Now user B (let's call her Barb) is a long time OpenOffice.org user and quite happy Apache OpenOffice user, so naturally she came in using the AOO [u.s.oo.o] address - which again, naturally, displays a nice blue theme and a sticky post about reporting bugs... See where I'm going here? *well* now that I've refilled the coffee cup it seems such an easy thing to overcome doesn't it - simply have a section (sub_board) for information on how to interface with each of the different projects - with separate sticky for each, perhaps. let's see - links to the documentation in easy reach, again it doesn't seem so much overhead to handle this. Then it would be a big help if the two applications AOO and LibO do not diverge in form or function. To date it has been pretty good that way, of course the fact that OO.o hasn't had a release is one of _the_ overarching factors here, IMO - and everything I see at the AOO project says that this will certainly not be the case for long. Along with that I look forward a TDF launch of an iOS and Android version and HTML5.canvas (?) on-line version, or other engineering driven changes such efforts may produce. I also want and expect AOO to have a series of releases that will have to be different in some ways from the current OO.o application..and whatever new projects the AOO project spawns. Then sure, one gets down to branding, community identity and self sufficiency questions and I suppose these issues add up to politics of a kind. IMO good people can in good conscience come to differing conclusions and take separate paths politely, is this not one definition of politics. IMO the reality which came out of this last year, the change from a project, in fact, owned by a single for profit vendor morphing into two projects, to code lines in fact, each owned by a non-profit foundations actively moving forward is not a bad outcome, for anyone. So bottom line for myself - could using two URL's pointing to the same physical server work? - likely for a while _but_ that it will become increasing more difficult, quickly, versus having each community take responsibility for it's own user services, across the board. Anyway - my long .02 worth Best wishes, Drew -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] user forums ?
After reading this, a quick reply... What end users are asking is the end user support for the product they use - LIBREOFFICE -, thats the main reason of friendly web forums. For the few - TDF is not APACHE as well LIBREOFFICE is not a clone of OPENOFFICE. They are NOT THE SAME and SHOULD NOT BE. This argumentation is contaminating the list what is directed to LibreOffice. Thanks for your reading... Alex. Em 11/11/2011 13:12, Simon Phipps escreveu: On 11 Nov 2011, at 06:38, drew wrote: So bottom line for myself - could using two URL's pointing to the same physical server work? - likely for a while _but_ that it will become increasing more difficult, quickly, versus having each community take responsibility for it's own user services, across the board. One additional benefit of having a shared top-level site is that it becomes easier for OOo users to discover LibreOffice solutions to their problems in the short-medium term. With a division between the sites I suspect that replies to ordinary OOo users may sadly be partial. S. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] user forums ?
Hello Drew, Le Wed, 09 Nov 2011 10:46:09 -0500, drew d...@baseanswers.com a écrit : On Wed, 2011-11-09 at 09:31 +0100, Charles-H. Schulz wrote: snip Page is up, feel free to add to it: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Website/UsersForum Hi Charles, Thanks for starting that page. I've gone ahead and made a few updates. I think the best way to handle the section for Platform Features is to put up a grid with features as rows and suspect platforms as columns. Will post back after that is started. Indeed, that's a very good idea. I'd also encourage others to update the page directly, but if you really are not comfortable with that then please don't just say mum, send an email to the list or direct to me even (maybe Charles also, but can't speak for him) and one of us will get it into the wiki page. Finally - just to pick up on something Florian said - time - we have some here, so let's not just look at a forum package in a vacuum but take the time to see how this would fit into a broader UX view... In terms of User Experience, well, maybe I don't have enough imagination or experience but let me just put it in two broad sentences: the users forum needs to be readily accessible from the homepage and any localized homepage; it needs to look nice and be easily usable and searchable. But once I've said that I'm barely out of the kingdom of Obviousness. Best, Charles. Best wishes, //drew -- Charles-H. Schulz Member of the Board of Directors, The Document Foundation. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] user forums ?
Hi *, Cor Nouws wrote (29-10-11 00:16) Now I wonder: what about the future of forums for LibreOffice? It looks convenient to have all at one place. On the other side: LibreOffice will grow to be different more and more. Different code base, more functions. So apart from that it is maybe not fair ;-) to profit too much on the work of the forums at Apache (when life), it will be increasingly insufficient for our own users. Well, that is one way I could look at it. But of course having own LibreOffice forums ask resources and especially time.. What do other people think about this? So looking at the contributions to this discussion so far - many thanks for those :-) - I see various subjects: - about technical possibilities; - some with politics; - and the question itself. Reading the various opinions, sooner or later, there will be fora, that are clearly recognised as linked to LibreOffice. Indeed, it is clear that there are various already in different languages. For some time, I could personally live quite well with a forum that is clearly, visibly, independent serving LibreOffice and other suites. Since suggestions made in that direction seem to be more political than technical feasible, I can leave that illusion. So the questions seems more: when are we going to create our own, then if. Then there is the question about the technical background. I see lots of useful ideas and info on those. Obviously the solution must scale and allow for various languages. Is there any need to hurry? A first thing that could be done anyway, is creating the 'portal' to the forum, the link, on the website, so that is clearly shows our intention and where we are heading for? Best -- - Cor - http://nl.libreoffice.org -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] user forums ?
Hi, of course, there is no need to hurry, but why not start (in case we want to go for it) now, so we have enough time to evaluate and decide? Better than doing things in a rush later on. :-) The topic itself is not new, it has in fact been up already since nearly the beginning of TDF. Florian *** This message has been sent from my tablet. Please excuse the possible briefness. Cor Nouws oo...@nouenoff.nl schrieb: Hi *, Cor Nouws wrote (29-10-11 00:16) Now I wonder: what about the future of forums for LibreOffice? It looks convenient to have all at one place. On the other side: LibreOffice will grow to be different more and more. Different code base, more functions. So apart from that it is maybe not fair ;-) to profit too much on the work of the forums at Apache (when life), it will be increasingly insufficient for our own users. Well, that is one way I could look at it. But of course having own LibreOffice forums ask resources and especially time.. What do other people think about this? So looking at the contributions to this discussion so far - many thanks for those :-) - I see various subjects: - about technical possibilities; - some with politics; - and the question itself. Reading the various opinions, sooner or later, there will be fora, that are clearly recognised as linked to LibreOffice. Indeed, it is clear that there are various already in different languages. For some time, I could personally live quite well with a forum that is clearly, visibly, independent serving LibreOffice and other suites. Since suggestions made in that direction seem to be more political than technical feasible, I can leave that illusion. So the questions seems more: when are we going to create our own, then if. Then there is the question about the technical background. I see lots of useful ideas and info on those. Obviously the solution must scale and allow for various languages. Is there any need to hurry? A first thing that could be done anyway, is creating the 'portal' to the forum, the link, on the website, so that is clearly shows our intention and where we are heading for? Best -- - Cor - http://nl.libreoffice.org -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] user forums ?
Hi Florian, Florian Effenberger wrote (08-11-11 15:33) of course, there is no need to hurry, but why not start (in case we want to go for it) now, so we have enough time to evaluate and decide? Yes, not doing things in a rush is good. What I was referring to: if there is less need to hurry, we have more time to let people step in for the various tasks. Better than doing things in a rush later on. :-) Well, if there would come a moment that it would be urgent ;-) The topic itself is not new, it has in fact been up already since nearly the beginning of TDF. Indeed, luckily not all topics are urgent :-) -- - Cor - http://nl.libreoffice.org -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] user forums ?
Florian, I'll open a wiki page tomorrow with some requirements listed so that we come up with some criteria for a forum platform. Others are free to fill the page as well. Best, Charles. Le 8 nov. 2011 22:58, Florian Effenberger flo...@documentfoundation.org a écrit : Hi, Cor Nouws wrote on 2011-11-08 21:29: Indeed, luckily not all topics are urgent :-) to be clear on this: I think that it becomes more and more urgent. Based on the feedback I get, many users really demand an official forum, and the mailing lists and their gateways do not work out for them, so it is time to start thinking - which we do on this list right now. :) And yes, even if I didn't manage yet to reply to all mails, I am still very much in favor of hosting TDF official forums for all projects and languages. Florian -- Florian Effenberger flo...@documentfoundation.org** Board of Directors at The Document Foundation Tel: +49 8341 99660880 | Mobile: +49 151 14424108 Skype: floeff | Twitter/Identi.ca: @floeff -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+help@**documentfoundation.orgdiscuss%2bh...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/**get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-** unsubscribe/http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.**documentfoundation.org/** Netiquette http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.**documentfoundation.org/www/**discuss/http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] user forums ?
Cor Nouws wrote: Andrea Pescetti wrote (05-11-11 13:02) when it comes to user support the people involved are much more pragmatic That would be my expectation too. And then 'people involved', I would read as those with questions, answers and with moderation tasks. Yes, that was my understanding. But I'd still give a thought if we can't really avoid the massive duplication of effort and, through simple DNS tweaking, offer the same forum under the two adresses http://user.services.openoffice.org/ and http://forum.libreoffice.org/ ... Sounds as an interesting idea. Then both could redirect to say forum.opensoftwareofficesuites.org (just to give it a name now) which should have a look that is more neutral and serving both. You don't need a third neutral URL: people accessing through http://forum.libreoffice.org/ would always just see that URL, exactly as it happens now with http://user.services.openoffice.org/ and http://ooo-forums.apache.org/ (which are totally equivalent, and if you use one you don't notice that the other one exists). And branding can be adapted too, and possibly made dependent on the URL. But technology is really easy in this case: the main issue, as I wrote, is political. Regards, Andrea. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] user forums ?
Andrea Pescetti wrote (06-11-11 11:18) And branding can be adapted too, and possibly made dependent on the URL. Ah, that is interesting (I only have knowledge of office suites you know ;-) ) But technology is really easy in this case: the main issue, as I wrote, is political. Isn't politics about branding, and the other way round too?! Cheers, -- - Cor - http://nl.libreoffice.org -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] user forums ?
On 11/7/11, Cor Nouws oo...@nouenoff.nl wrote: ... Isn't politics about branding, and the other way round too?! ... I'm not sure the legal team(s) will bless any attempt to even give the impression of a common forum. There have been mutterings not just about brand value but also intellectual property. As a total outsider, but as a user of LibreOffice, my vote is for an independent forum without any dependencies. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
RE: [NOT-SO-PRIVATE] RE: [tdf-discuss] user forums ?
Now that's the most embarrassing thing I have done in a long time. Mi dispiace molto :( Please pretend I never spoke about this. -Original Message- From: Dennis E. Hamilton [mailto:dennis.hamil...@acm.org] Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2011 19:36 To: discuss@documentfoundation.org Subject: [PRIVATE] RE: [tdf-discuss] user forums ? I don't want to take this response to either ooo-dev or tdf-discuss. I think your compromise is an interesting one, but I don't think it is feasible. There are political issues and technical issues. The technical issue is having a different URL that accesses the same pages be served back as if they are all at that URL, but without any other change of content. As soon as an absolute URL is followed within the forums, that is going to be the URL in the response. (Redirection doesn't work for the reasons I just gave. Framing doesn't work for lots of reasons. I tried that until I switched to add-on domains on a LAMP hosting service.) If the served content is to be changed (top banners, page footers, custom content in addition to that) there is far more server load and the problem that the service will be hosted by Apache and any terms of service will be those by the ASF. And ASF would have to operate it and have acceptable-to-it site administrators, forum administrators, etc. There is where the political and governance issues collide - OOo Marketing, TDF concern about being captive, ASF concern about the integrity of sites they operate, and the issues of degrees of distrust among the respective communities. From the TDF side alone, consider the antipathy to questions on Microsoft Office - OpenOffice.org document interchange and the hostility to Lotus Symphony issues being addressed. The anguish over the iCLA and PPMC oversight that the OpenOffice.org Forums team just went through would be nothing compared to what it would take to allow separate governance over a TDF-facing aspect of the Forums. Of course, that anguish was a tempest in a teapot. I notice that no one has been disturbed about it since the cut-over succeeded, mostly because the PPMC has far more critical matters for its attention. I favor how you are looking for compromise solutions, but multiple branding of the same site is perhaps not going to work. It would be useful to discuss this with the current OpenOffice.org Forum operators if you have not already. I am not sure how they would react to this prospect. And they might have some insight that others have not noticed. Cordiali saluti, - Dennis E. Hamilton tools for document interoperability, http://nfoWorks.org/ dennis.hamil...@acm.org gsm: +1-206-779-9430 @orcmid -Original Message- From: Andrea Pescetti [mailto:pesce...@openoffice.org] Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2011 03:18 To: discuss@documentfoundation.org Subject: Re: [tdf-discuss] user forums ? Cor Nouws wrote: Andrea Pescetti wrote (05-11-11 13:02) when it comes to user support the people involved are much more pragmatic That would be my expectation too. And then 'people involved', I would read as those with questions, answers and with moderation tasks. Yes, that was my understanding. But I'd still give a thought if we can't really avoid the massive duplication of effort and, through simple DNS tweaking, offer the same forum under the two adresses http://user.services.openoffice.org/ and http://forum.libreoffice.org/ ... Sounds as an interesting idea. Then both could redirect to say forum.opensoftwareofficesuites.org (just to give it a name now) which should have a look that is more neutral and serving both. You don't need a third neutral URL: people accessing through http://forum.libreoffice.org/ would always just see that URL, exactly as it happens now with http://user.services.openoffice.org/ and http://ooo-forums.apache.org/ (which are totally equivalent, and if you use one you don't notice that the other one exists). And branding can be adapted too, and possibly made dependent on the URL. But technology is really easy in this case: the main issue, as I wrote, is political. Regards, Andrea. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http
Re: [tdf-discuss] user forums ?
On 31/10/2011 Florian Effenberger wrote: What I would like to have is one official LibO forum, either done by us or someone else, that is open for all languages, and run by a group that does not have members who openly show hostility towards TDF. I am not saying that everyone does so, but at least I have heard from some forums, where definitely FUD was spread, and this leaves me with bad feelings. If this is the only issue, then definitely the best option to me seems continuing using http://user.services.openoffice.org/ in the primary interest of users. Whetever discussions and hostility you might have found or felt, when it comes to user support the people involved are much more pragmatic and in this respect http://user.services.openoffice.org/ is truly ecumenical as it professes: LibreOffice is a first-class citizen there. To me you really need very good reasons when it comes to fragmenting user support. While the hostility you felt is definitely bad, it won't affect users, some of whom migrated to LibreOffice just because their distribution did, and expect to continue using the support channels they are familiar with. This said, if the Document Foundation has already made the political choice to create a new channel, then finding volunteers and technical solutions like it's being discussed in the other thread is a minor issue. But I'd still give a thought if we can't really avoid the massive duplication of effort and, through simple DNS tweaking, offer the same forum under the two adresses http://user.services.openoffice.org/ and http://forum.libreoffice.org/ ... Honestly, my preference would be to have our own forum and see if it works. If not, we tried it, and we don't lose that much. The choice is political, not technical, there's no trying here! Regards, Andrea. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] user forums ?
Hi, Stefan Weigel wrote on 2011-11-02 11:13: Ok. The forum will sure have a search function, just like every forum has, right? Could our new forum combine automatically three searches at once? (1) Show the matches inside our forum (2) Show the matches within the ML archives (3) Show Google matches totally depends on the forum we install and its options. In case we go for an own solution, there are many options, no decision on any software yet. Florian -- Florian Effenberger flo...@documentfoundation.org Board of Directors at The Document Foundation Tel: +49 8341 99660880 | Mobile: +49 151 14424108 Skype: floeff | Twitter/Identi.ca: @floeff -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] user forums ?
Hi Jonathan, Jonathan Aquilina wrote on 2011-11-01 13:32: The other day you had asked me for my url to the forums, and I have not heard back from you in regards to what you think. I was looking at the administrative control panel of phpbb and I would be able to install other language packs. Hope I can help out with a contribution such as this. your offer is very nice, thank you indeed for that! However, I think we wither use an existing forum with LibreOffice content, or install one on our own infrastructure. That gives just more flexibility. I would welcome you as an admin for our own forum then, of course. Florian -- Florian Effenberger flo...@documentfoundation.org Board of Directors at The Document Foundation Tel: +49 8341 99660880 | Mobile: +49 151 14424108 Skype: floeff | Twitter/Identi.ca: @floeff -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] user forums ?
On 10/31/11 8:49 PM, Florian Effenberger wrote: Hello, thanks everyone for your feedback and your kind offers to help, that's really much appreciated! As for which type to use, I must say that a normal forum is the only way, IMHO. We've been experimenting with Nabble, and the result has been rather mixed. People prefer a forum they know, nothing else. At least based on my experience. There are several forums running. What I would like to have is one official LibO forum, either done by us or someone else, that is open for all languages, and run by a group that does not have members who openly show hostility towards TDF. I am not saying that everyone does so, but at least I have heard from some forums, where definitely FUD was spread, and this leaves me with bad feelings. What I took from this thread is, that there are two options: One de.openoffice.org, and the other one the LibreOffice forum. Anyone already got in touch with those folks? IIRC, there had been discussions, with some groups, and that didn't work out - but I must confess I don't know which ones. Honestly, my preference would be to have our own forum and see if it works. If not, we tried it, and we don't lose that much. Florian The other day you had asked me for my url to the forums, and I have not heard back from you in regards to what you think. I was looking at the administrative control panel of phpbb and I would be able to install other language packs. Hope I can help out with a contribution such as this. Regards Jonathan Aquilina Get a signature like this. http://r1.wisestamp.com/r/landing?promo=19dest=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wisestamp.com%2Femail-install%3Futm_source%3Dextension%26utm_medium%3Demail%26utm_campaign%3Dpromo_19 CLICK HERE. http://r1.wisestamp.com/r/landing?promo=19dest=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wisestamp.com%2Femail-install%3Futm_source%3Dextension%26utm_medium%3Demail%26utm_campaign%3Dpromo_19 -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] user forums ?
Hi, Am 30.10.2011 23:14, schrieb Dennis E. Hamilton: NOTE: There is no German Language Forum at OpenOffice.org. You are talking about the forums formerly hosted by Sun/Oracle, right? There have always been pure community-driven forums at http://openoffice.info/ This site points to Englisch, German, Bosnian, Czech, Dansk, Polish and Portuguese forums. The english forum there is even more populated than the forum, you have been looking at: A total of 369768 articles. 235837 registered users. (At least that´s what the display below the forum is showing.) The german forum has 168152 articles in 36091 topics and 16462 registered members. The german forum explicitely claims to be a place for OpenOffice.org as well as LibreOffice. Maybe some TDF official could talk to the admins and motivate them to integrate LibreOffice branding. TDF/LibO could directly link from their Website to this forum. This would be a good chance not to split the already established support. Regards, Stefan -- LibreOffice - Die Freiheit nehm' ich mir! -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] user forums ?
Marc-André Laverdière wrote: I think that most people on the mailing list know about stack exchange, and how rockin' it is. I think it would bee a) cool and b) a boon to our mutual users to just migrate our forums to stack exchange. Seems someone else already had that idea: http://area51.stackexchange.com/proposals/24564/libreoffice I think independently of the merits for a dedicated LibreOffice forum, the above attempt is worth supporting. Note that StackExchange has some prerequisites each proposal needs to fulfil, before graduating out of this area51 playground: http://area51.stackexchange.com/faq Cheers, -- Thorsten -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] user forums ?
Charles-H. Schulz wrote: Well, it turns out many people seem to want to use forums, and most of them are not technical, they are end users so I don't expect they have the same needs as developers. I just assume there's no fundamental truth in either mailing list or forums usage... No idea. And bear in mind that I'm sufficiently clueless about forum usage patterns that the following comments should be taken with a larger dose of salt - what *I* think is that Joe Random User typically wields his search engine of choice, and clicks on whatever appears promising on the first result page - and *then* maybe gets sucked into whatever forum/list/stackexchange platform is behind that link. Or is there an existing community of LibreOffice user support folks over at the forums, that we'd want to accomodate (or OOo supporters, that would want to also help out on a new forum)? Cheers, -- Thorsten -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] user forums ?
On 31 Oct 2011, at 11:33, Thorsten Behrens wrote: what *I* think is that Joe Random User typically wields his search engine of choice, and clicks on whatever appears promising on the first result page - and *then* maybe gets sucked into whatever forum/list/stackexchange platform is behind that link. I think that's exactly right. Go type LibreOffice Support into Google now and you'll find libreofficeforum.org is both the top hit and the only likely-looking destination in the top 10. S. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] user forums ?
On 10/31/2011 07:26 AM, Thorsten Behrens wrote: Marc-André Laverdière wrote: I think that most people on the mailing list know about stack exchange, and how rockin' it is. I think it would bee a) cool and b) a boon to our mutual users to just migrate our forums to stack exchange. Seems someone else already had that idea: http://area51.stackexchange.com/proposals/24564/libreoffice Hi Marc-André, all, A while ago I proposed using Shapado, which I set up some time after the LibreOffice project started: http://libreoffice.shapado.com/ To me it's a forums-on-steroids tool. It has the advantage of using free, open-source software and most importantly, supporting multiple languages within the same engine. No need to vote to use it, in fact you can create any other subject QA using Shapado in a matter of minutes. I saw OpenID mentioned in this discussion, it is supported in Shapado (in addition to Google, Facebook and Twitter for maximum exposure). There have been major changes in the last few months to its backend. I haven't been able to promote it or enhance it as I would have liked as I've been away from the project for a few months now, but if anyone visited it at the time and goes back now, the changes are obvious. It's also quite high in search results when looking for LibreOffice help. If I remember well, I had also connected its RSS feeds to corresponding hashtags in Identi.ca and Twitter. Because anyone can run their own instance of Shapado on their servers, this could be eventually integrated as an official resource. Anyways, just another option to consider. Cheers, -- Fabián Rodríguez http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/User:MagicFab -- -- Fabián Rodríguez -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] user forums ?
On 10/31/2011 03:49 PM, Florian Effenberger wrote: Hello, [...] What I took from this thread is, that there are two options: One de.openoffice.org, and the other one the LibreOffice forum. Anyone already got in touch with those folks? IIRC, there had been discussions, with some groups, and that didn't work out - but I must confess I don't know which ones. Honestly, my preference would be to have our own forum and see if it works. If not, we tried it, and we don't lose that much. What I see is a desire to proclaim ownership over such resources - when in fact what would be desirable would be to integrate existing active, useful resources to the current TDF governance structure and encourage new initiatives. My only contact at the time was with the LibreOffice forum admin, here is the message I sent back in January introducing him as a contact to maintain (this email went unanswered) - it should still be possible to contact him directly via the site contact forms: Original Message Subject:Re: [tdf-discuss] [Forum]How will the forum be organized? Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2011 14:03:48 -0500 From: Fabián Rodríguez magic...@member.fsf.org Organization: Unorganized. Really. But if you must know - http://fabianrodriguez.com To: discuss@documentfoundation.org [...] I just registered to http://libreofficeforum.org and I am fairly certain it uses Drupal. I took the liberty to contact its creator and he's already indicated he's willing to collaborate: I would be glad to see LibreOfficeForum.org as the official forum. I personally am not a developer, and I don't have any official role in LibreOffice. For years I have been a heavy user of OpenOffice, spending many hours on it every day. And now I'm sure that the way forward is LibreOffice. I'm not an expert yet, just a heavy user. ;-) I created the site immediately after LibreOffice was announced, because I saw that they had no web forums, and I personally don't like mailing lists. And I know that there are several unofficial forums as well for OpenOffice (like oooforum.org), so I'm sure that this site could also occupy that role if the Document Foundation doesn't approve it officially. It appears likely that LibreOffice will continue to diverge more and more from the code base of OpenOffice, and it would be confusing to see bugs and support requests for two different products in the same forum. So for that reason I would personally recommend that the Document Foundation not continue to use the same user.services.openoffice.org forum for LibreOffice. - Sam I supposed someone from TDF / steering committee could maintain this contact more formally than me, I hope I am not overstepping anyone when doing this. Cheers, Fabian -- -- Fabián Rodríguez -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
RE: [tdf-discuss] user forums ?
One touch up. There is no de.openoffice.org forum. However, there is this nice page of sources provided there: http://de.openoffice.org/foren.html. - Dennis -Original Message- From: Fabian Rodriguez [mailto:magic...@member.fsf.org] Sent: Monday, October 31, 2011 13:06 To: discuss@documentfoundation.org Subject: Re: [tdf-discuss] user forums ? On 10/31/2011 03:49 PM, Florian Effenberger wrote: Hello, [...] What I took from this thread is, that there are two options: One de.openoffice.org, and the other one the LibreOffice forum. Anyone already got in touch with those folks? IIRC, there had been discussions, with some groups, and that didn't work out - but I must confess I don't know which ones. Honestly, my preference would be to have our own forum and see if it works. If not, we tried it, and we don't lose that much. What I see is a desire to proclaim ownership over such resources - when in fact what would be desirable would be to integrate existing active, useful resources to the current TDF governance structure and encourage new initiatives. My only contact at the time was with the LibreOffice forum admin, here is the message I sent back in January introducing him as a contact to maintain (this email went unanswered) - it should still be possible to contact him directly via the site contact forms: Original Message Subject:Re: [tdf-discuss] [Forum]How will the forum be organized? Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2011 14:03:48 -0500 From: Fabián Rodríguez magic...@member.fsf.org Organization: Unorganized. Really. But if you must know - http://fabianrodriguez.com To: discuss@documentfoundation.org [...] I just registered to http://libreofficeforum.org and I am fairly certain it uses Drupal. I took the liberty to contact its creator and he's already indicated he's willing to collaborate: I would be glad to see LibreOfficeForum.org as the official forum. I personally am not a developer, and I don't have any official role in LibreOffice. For years I have been a heavy user of OpenOffice, spending many hours on it every day. And now I'm sure that the way forward is LibreOffice. I'm not an expert yet, just a heavy user. ;-) I created the site immediately after LibreOffice was announced, because I saw that they had no web forums, and I personally don't like mailing lists. And I know that there are several unofficial forums as well for OpenOffice (like oooforum.org), so I'm sure that this site could also occupy that role if the Document Foundation doesn't approve it officially. It appears likely that LibreOffice will continue to diverge more and more from the code base of OpenOffice, and it would be confusing to see bugs and support requests for two different products in the same forum. So for that reason I would personally recommend that the Document Foundation not continue to use the same user.services.openoffice.org forum for LibreOffice. - Sam I supposed someone from TDF / steering committee could maintain this contact more formally than me, I hope I am not overstepping anyone when doing this. Cheers, Fabian -- -- Fabián Rodríguez -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] user forums ?
I am not too inclined towards our own whatever for user support because a) that's not cool to split the community b) we'll get flak on LWN et al and c) we loose gazillion pages of answered problems that may be useful for the next guy. Marc-André LAVERDIÈRE Perseverance must finish its work so that you may be mature and complete, not lacking anything. -James 1:4 http://asimplediscipleslife.blogspot.com/ mlaverd.theunixplace.com On Mon, Oct 31, 2011 at 3:49 PM, Florian Effenberger flo...@documentfoundation.org wrote: Hello, thanks everyone for your feedback and your kind offers to help, that's really much appreciated! As for which type to use, I must say that a normal forum is the only way, IMHO. We've been experimenting with Nabble, and the result has been rather mixed. People prefer a forum they know, nothing else. At least based on my experience. There are several forums running. What I would like to have is one official LibO forum, either done by us or someone else, that is open for all languages, and run by a group that does not have members who openly show hostility towards TDF. I am not saying that everyone does so, but at least I have heard from some forums, where definitely FUD was spread, and this leaves me with bad feelings. What I took from this thread is, that there are two options: One de.openoffice.org, and the other one the LibreOffice forum. Anyone already got in touch with those folks? IIRC, there had been discussions, with some groups, and that didn't work out - but I must confess I don't know which ones. Honestly, my preference would be to have our own forum and see if it works. If not, we tried it, and we don't lose that much. Florian -- Florian Effenberger flo...@documentfoundation.org** Board of Directors at The Document Foundation Tel: +49 8341 99660880 | Mobile: +49 151 14424108 Skype: floeff | Twitter/Identi.ca: @floeff -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+help@**documentfoundation.orgdiscuss%2bh...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/**get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-** unsubscribe/http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.**documentfoundation.org/** Netiquette http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.**documentfoundation.org/www/**discuss/http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] user forums ?
On 30/10/2011 01:27, Marc-André Laverdière wrote: I know that I am skipping a lot of the back-and-forth here, but let me point out the elephant in the room... Why forums in the first place? I think that most people on the mailing list know about stack exchange, and how rockin' it is. I think it would bee a) cool and b) a boon to our mutual users to just migrate our forums to stack exchange. I don't know about their pricing, but why not ask? Marc-André LAVERDIÈRE Perseverance must finish its work so that you may be mature and complete, not lacking anything. -James 1:4 http://asimplediscipleslife.blogspot.com/ mlaverd.theunixplace.com On Sat, Oct 29, 2011 at 5:32 PM, Cor Nouwsoo...@nouenoff.nl wrote: Hi Andrea, Andrea Pescetti wrote (29-10-11 01:11) I believe that in general fragmenting support is not a good idea, unless it is really needed. Me too - though there are some nuances. I write about this in some other mails. Regards, -- - Cor - http://nl.libreoffice.org -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+help@**documentfoundation.orgdiscuss%2bh...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/**get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-** unsubscribe/http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.**documentfoundation.org/** Netiquettehttp://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.**documentfoundation.org/www/**discuss/http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted Marc-Andre I can host them free of charge to the TDF allowing them to put funds to use elsewhere if they opt for a phpbb forum solution. Regards Jonathan Aquilina Get a signature like this. http://r1.wisestamp.com/r/landing?promo=19dest=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wisestamp.com%2Femail-install%3Futm_source%3Dextension%26utm_medium%3Demail%26utm_campaign%3Dpromo_19 CLICK HERE. http://r1.wisestamp.com/r/landing?promo=19dest=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wisestamp.com%2Femail-install%3Futm_source%3Dextension%26utm_medium%3Demail%26utm_campaign%3Dpromo_19 -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] user forums ?
Who in their right mind want forums? If you want exchange of ideas, mailing lists are great. If you want a solution to your problem, Forums just stink. Stack overflow was designed to overcome the limitations of old school forums. Why go back? Actually, we should think about how to port the old forum stuff to this new platform. On 30 Oct 2011 07:24, Charles-H. Schulz charles.sch...@documentfoundation.org wrote: Marc-André, This is definitely something I feel we should investigate; but we also have people who want forums and who will shun away from Stack Overflow and mailing lists... Best, Charles. Le 30/10/2011 11:40, Jonathan Aquilina a écrit : On 30/10/2011 01:27, Marc-André Laverdière wrote: I know that I am skipping a lot of the back-a... -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] user forums ?
Well, it turns out many people seem to want to use forums, and most of them are not technical, they are end users so I don't expect they have the same needs as developers. I just assume there's no fundamental truth in either mailing list or forums usage... Best, Charles. Le 30/10/2011 13:42, Marc-André Laverdière a écrit : Who in their right mind want forums? If you want exchange of ideas, mailing lists are great. If you want a solution to your problem, Forums just stink. Stack overflow was designed to overcome the limitations of old school forums. Why go back? Actually, we should think about how to port the old forum stuff to this new platform. On 30 Oct 2011 07:24, Charles-H. Schulz charles.sch...@documentfoundation.org wrote: Marc-André, This is definitely something I feel we should investigate; but we also have people who want forums and who will shun away from Stack Overflow and mailing lists... Best, Charles. Le 30/10/2011 11:40, Jonathan Aquilina a écrit : On 30/10/2011 01:27, Marc-André Laverdière wrote: I know that I am skipping a lot of the back-a... -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] user forums ?
Seeing is believing sometimes... On 30 Oct 2011 08:50, Charles-H. Schulz charles.sch...@documentfoundation.org wrote: Well, it turns out many people seem to want to use forums, and most of them are not technical, they are end users so I don't expect they have the same needs as developers. I just assume there's no fundamental truth in either mailing list or forums usage... Best, Charles. Le 30/10/2011 13:42, Marc-André Laverdière a écrit : Who in their right mind want forums? If you want exchange of ideas, mailing lists are great. ... -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.lib... -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
RE: [tdf-discuss] user forums ?
I have no desire to get in the middle of this. I do have some interesting statistics gleaned from the current OpenOffice.org Forums for another purpose earlier today. Here is something about the scale and level of interest that exists even now, independent of the current status of releases and available downloads from whatever sources: There are 10 OpenOffice.org Community Forums, each for one of 10 supported languages: English, Spanish, French, Hungarian, Italian, Japanese, Dutch, Polish, Vietnamese, and Chinese. Each forum is operated in its own language with administrators, moderators, and volunteers that operate in mixes of those native languages. Going to the English Forums just now, I saw these statistics: Users on-line right now: 158 of which 9 are registered. The record at one time is 362, and that was on Monday 2011-10-17 at 14:30 UTC. (I am surprised that it was so recent. And 5 of the registered users are Bots from Google, MSN, and Yahoo!) Total posts to the forum: 199,458 Total threads (topics): 40,466 Total registered users: 45,008 [registered users are like committers in the Apache sense: they can submit posts and comments and they don't require permission to do it.] The English language forum is the largest, the Vietnamese language one is the smallest, with 163 registered users. French is the next most-active, followed by Spanish. Forums for the remaining languages have between 1 and 2 thousand registered users each. NOTE: There is no German Language Forum at OpenOffice.org. I am told there is one elsewhere. It hasn't had my attention. -Original Message- From: charles.h.sch...@gmail.com [mailto:charles.h.sch...@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Charles-H. Schulz Sent: Sunday, October 30, 2011 07:11 To: discuss@documentfoundation.org Subject: Re: [tdf-discuss] user forums ? hehe, yes, sometimes. Although believing is a matter of opinion, while Faith does (usually) not require eyes . It should be also said that I am myself a very rare forum user, but, just like the fact that I'm running Arch Linux, I also ackowledge the fact that some people use different software and ways... best, Charles. Le 30/10/2011 14:40, Marc-André Laverdière a écrit : Seeing is believing sometimes... On 30 Oct 2011 08:50, Charles-H. Schulz charles.sch...@documentfoundation.org wrote: Well, it turns out many people seem to want to use forums, and most of them are not technical, they are end users so I don't expect they have the same needs as developers. I just assume there's no fundamental truth in either mailing list or forums usage... Best, Charles. Le 30/10/2011 13:42, Marc-André Laverdière a écrit : Who in their right mind want forums? If you want exchange of ideas, mailing lists are great. ... -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
RE: [tdf-discuss] user forums ?
Um, lest I confuse everyone: After the English language forum, the French and then the Spanish language forums are the next most active in terms of registered users and other statistics. The remainder are in the 1,000-2,000 range and then Vietnamese is the smallest. I don't have figures for the independent German language Forum. I'm confident it would create a top 4. - Dennis -Original Message- From: Dennis E. Hamilton [mailto:dennis.hamil...@acm.org] Sent: Sunday, October 30, 2011 15:14 To: discuss@documentfoundation.org Subject: RE: [tdf-discuss] user forums ? I have no desire to get in the middle of this. I do have some interesting statistics gleaned from the current OpenOffice.org Forums for another purpose earlier today. Here is something about the scale and level of interest that exists even now, independent of the current status of releases and available downloads from whatever sources: There are 10 OpenOffice.org Community Forums, each for one of 10 supported languages: English, Spanish, French, Hungarian, Italian, Japanese, Dutch, Polish, Vietnamese, and Chinese. Each forum is operated in its own language with administrators, moderators, and volunteers that operate in mixes of those native languages. Going to the English Forums just now, I saw these statistics: Users on-line right now: 158 of which 9 are registered. The record at one time is 362, and that was on Monday 2011-10-17 at 14:30 UTC. (I am surprised that it was so recent. And 5 of the registered users are Bots from Google, MSN, and Yahoo!) Total posts to the forum: 199,458 Total threads (topics): 40,466 Total registered users: 45,008 [registered users are like committers in the Apache sense: they can submit posts and comments and they don't require permission to do it.] The English language forum is the largest, the Vietnamese language one is the smallest, with 163 registered users. French is the next most-active, followed by Spanish. Forums for the remaining languages have between 1 and 2 thousand registered users each. NOTE: There is no German Language Forum at OpenOffice.org. I am told there is one elsewhere. It hasn't had my attention. -Original Message- From: charles.h.sch...@gmail.com [mailto:charles.h.sch...@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Charles-H. Schulz Sent: Sunday, October 30, 2011 07:11 To: discuss@documentfoundation.org Subject: Re: [tdf-discuss] user forums ? hehe, yes, sometimes. Although believing is a matter of opinion, while Faith does (usually) not require eyes . It should be also said that I am myself a very rare forum user, but, just like the fact that I'm running Arch Linux, I also ackowledge the fact that some people use different software and ways... best, Charles. Le 30/10/2011 14:40, Marc-André Laverdière a écrit : Seeing is believing sometimes... On 30 Oct 2011 08:50, Charles-H. Schulz charles.sch...@documentfoundation.org wrote: Well, it turns out many people seem to want to use forums, and most of them are not technical, they are end users so I don't expect they have the same needs as developers. I just assume there's no fundamental truth in either mailing list or forums usage... Best, Charles. Le 30/10/2011 13:42, Marc-André Laverdière a écrit : Who in their right mind want forums? If you want exchange of ideas, mailing lists are great. ... -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] user forums ?
Hi, Le 29/10/2011 00:16, Cor Nouws a écrit : Hi, I noticed that the old users forums from OOo are not available any more. I was not a frequent visitor, but helped a bit with questions (on the Dutch language version) now and then. There was a mixture of questions related to OOo and of course increasingly LibreOffice. I heard about migration of the old OOo infrastructure to the Apache project. I guess the forums will be part of that. Migration has been done : http://ooo-forums.apache.org/ It works for FR forum but I do not know how users will be aware of the new url. Best regards. JBF -- Seuls des formats ouverts peuvent assurer la pérennité de vos documents. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] user forums ?
On 29/10/2011 08:23, Jean-Baptiste Faure wrote: Hi, Le 29/10/2011 00:16, Cor Nouws a écrit : Hi, I noticed that the old users forums from OOo are not available any more. I was not a frequent visitor, but helped a bit with questions (on the Dutch language version) now and then. There was a mixture of questions related to OOo and of course increasingly LibreOffice. I heard about migration of the old OOo infrastructure to the Apache project. I guess the forums will be part of that. Migration has been done : http://ooo-forums.apache.org/ It works for FR forum but I do not know how users will be aware of the new url. Best regards. JBF Simple fix. Setup a redirect from the old url to the new one if possible. Regards Jonathan Aquilina Get a signature like this. http://r1.wisestamp.com/r/landing?promo=19dest=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wisestamp.com%2Femail-install%3Futm_source%3Dextension%26utm_medium%3Demail%26utm_campaign%3Dpromo_19 CLICK HERE. http://r1.wisestamp.com/r/landing?promo=19dest=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wisestamp.com%2Femail-install%3Futm_source%3Dextension%26utm_medium%3Demail%26utm_campaign%3Dpromo_19 -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] user forums ?
Hi Andrea, Andrea Pescetti wrote (29-10-11 01:11) I believe that in general fragmenting support is not a good idea, unless it is really needed. Me too - though there are some nuances. I write about this in some other mails. Regards, -- - Cor - http://nl.libreoffice.org -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] user forums ?
I know that I am skipping a lot of the back-and-forth here, but let me point out the elephant in the room... Why forums in the first place? I think that most people on the mailing list know about stack exchange, and how rockin' it is. I think it would bee a) cool and b) a boon to our mutual users to just migrate our forums to stack exchange. I don't know about their pricing, but why not ask? Marc-André LAVERDIÈRE Perseverance must finish its work so that you may be mature and complete, not lacking anything. -James 1:4 http://asimplediscipleslife.blogspot.com/ mlaverd.theunixplace.com On Sat, Oct 29, 2011 at 5:32 PM, Cor Nouws oo...@nouenoff.nl wrote: Hi Andrea, Andrea Pescetti wrote (29-10-11 01:11) I believe that in general fragmenting support is not a good idea, unless it is really needed. Me too - though there are some nuances. I write about this in some other mails. Regards, -- - Cor - http://nl.libreoffice.org -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+help@**documentfoundation.orgdiscuss%2bh...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/**get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-** unsubscribe/http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.**documentfoundation.org/** Netiquette http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.**documentfoundation.org/www/**discuss/http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
