Re: [IxDA Discuss] Latimes.com Redesign - No Link Colors
BTW I just discovered the California Schools Guide on the new LA Times site in the Local section. This may have been on the previous site; does anyone know who produced it? http://projects.latimes.com/schools/ http://projects.latimes.com/schools/school/foothill-ranch/foothill-ranch-elementary/ Elegant data presentation, especially once you drill down to schools and districts and expand the sections to look at test scores, immunizations, etc. I'm impressed with how many people are entering comments (Kris about Pacific Palisades, 1 hour, 59 minutes ago), both in the schools section and over in the LA neighborhoods section, which is populated by census data but presented in coherent, narrative style. And smart about the intersecting regions of counties, neighborhoods, school districts, etc. http://projects.latimes.com/mapping-la/neighborhoods/ http://projects.latimes.com/mapping-la/neighborhoods/neighborhood/granada-hills/ (I am a bit worried about all the Waldorf schools giving waivers on immunizations for half their kindergarten classes. It's a good sign when a data visualization makes you want to interact with it, right?) Diana On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 12:00 AM, Steven Johnsonsteven.john...@disney.com wrote: The new L.A. Times web redesign launched last night. IA-wise, it's basically the same site, but the look-and-feel more strongly embraces the print idiom (e.g., Georgia font). I feel like the big news is that they've dropped link colors from headlines, nav, etc. Latimes.com is my alma mater (1999-2006), and I now also teach web publishing at Annenberg School of Journalism at USC. I'd really like to get some feedback on the redesign from the IxD/UED community to bring back to the J-school and print publishing worlds. Please have a look: http://www.latimes.com/ Thanks. Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Latimes.com Redesign - No Link Colors
Hi Steven, I work in the online news industry and was interested in your questions but never got round to giving some opinion back. Someone else shared a link with me of this same topic over at unmatchedstyle - a good read and probably of interest if you have not already come across it, http://www.unmatchedstyle.com/gallery/los-angeles-times.php Best regards, Ruairi . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=44633 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Latimes.com Redesign - No Link Colors
//Looking at A List Apart, another site designed to mimic print design, the things I would expect to be links - articles titles, auther names, and global navigation - are in fact links but are not underlined.// I certainly believe that you are correct in that regard. The site is definitely quick to grasp. Plus i believe users now understand web pages well and definitely know which text/content to be clickable. The mouse pointer simply follows the eye nowadays, doesn't it? --- On Mon, 17/8/09, Willl Hacker willhac...@sbcglobal.net wrote: From: Willl Hacker willhac...@sbcglobal.net Subject: Re: [IxDA Discuss] Latimes.com Redesign - No Link Colors To: disc...@ixda.org Date: Monday, 17 August, 2009, 1:41 PM Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Latimes.com Redesign - No Link Colors
In general, I'm very much on the side of having links either underlined or a distinct color. Clean design should never trump usability. Even if it takes a millisecond to figure out what's a link and what isn't, that's too long. However, I do think their homepage works. It really is almost entirely links and I was hard pressed to find an instance of hesitation on my part. At least they are using underlines on rollovers which works. The problem is that the home page determines precedents for inside page styles and that's where the strategy starts to falter. Once you get a decent amount of content on a page, determining where links are does become more of a whack-a-mole situation (I believe that's the academic term for it). The designers realized this and they are using a distinct color for in-line links; those within a story. That's the area I'd expect the most difficulty finding a link. The biggest problem I experienced was on secondary-level landing pages (e.g., Business) where story promo headlines are smaller than the excerpt of text below it. I suspect that's a CSS error for my browser (Firefox/Mac). If that were fixed, I would have expected those to be links. Overall, this solo user-tester found it to be a fairly usable design despite my prejudices. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=44633 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Latimes.com Redesign - No Link Colors
Seems to me that the rule of making links distinctive is far more important if they're being used as Intriguing Branches within a larger body of text. You can use Command Areas (as they do) to offset groups of links and the Tag Cloud is another case like this. Titles, especially in the context of excerpts/lists, make perfect sense--the lack of the full story makes you want to know more, and the underline on hover is an Invitation to click and do just that. In short, when not in the body of text, there are other ways to make links sufficiently discoverable, and I think they pull it off pretty well. Can you imagine if they made all their links underlined or a brighter color? It'd overload your brain. My vote goes with this was the right choice in their case, FWIW. :) Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Latimes.com Redesign - No Link Colors
On Aug 16, 2009, at 10:33 PM, Diana Wynne wrote: A side note that I recently discovered the learn more ? balloon on the NYTimes website. Here's the thing that so many people don't understand about usability - it's a sliding scale. Interactions can be intuitive or immediately obvious, predictable, discoverable, learnable, etc. all the way down to none of these, which results in unusable. In the case of LAT, well, perhaps we have evolved, or started to evolve to the point where we don't need to underline links anymore. If they are put in a predictable location, then perhaps that's good enough. Only time will tell and I can tell you having worked with LAT in the past, I'm sure they're tracking this stuff. As a side note, let's not forget that our brains can evolve and map to new interactions. We've gone from hammering out letters on stones, to typewriters, to desktops, to laptops, to pocket Macs. Anyone remember the 3.5 disk drives? 5.25 floppies? The no link colors is a gamble, but perhaps that's what we need for the web to evolve. After all, the Internet was a bit of a gamble to begin with. Cheers! Todd Zaki Warfel Principal Design Researcher Messagefirst | Designing Information. Beautifully. -- Contact Info Voice: (215) 825-7423 Email: t...@messagefirst.com AIM:twar...@mac.com Blog: http://toddwarfel.com Twitter:zakiwarfel -- In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they are not. Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Latimes.com Redesign - No Link Colors
You would hope a company as large as Tribune Co. would have performed user testing on the site before it launched the new look, so they may be safe in this design. I think they are. While it is not obvious at first glance what is a link, the site to me is very learnable and memorable. What I expect to be links, headlines and section names, are in fact links. Given the large number of links on each page, underlining them all would have created a lot of visual clutter. Interestingly, the Chicago Tribune, another Tribune Co. property, recently redesigned its site and uses a very similar information architecture to the LA Times. They almost look like they use the same template. One key difference is the Tribune's links are blue. New York Times uses the same treatment on its website, although with a darker blue than the Tribune. Looking at A List Apart, another site designed to mimic print design, the things I would expect to be links - articles titles, auther names, and global navigation - are in fact links but are not underlined. In the case of blogs and newspaper sites, the navigation conventions used are established enough for these types of sites that the underlining of links can be dropped, especially when mouseover feedback is provided. This might not work for travel or insurance sites but works for blogs and newspapers. Todd is right that as people's comfort with and understanding of the web evolves, the rules of interaction also will evolve. As long as we keep testing this should not be a problem. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=44633 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Latimes.com Redesign - No Link Colors
I love it. Black text is so much more legible than all that other noise. It's a newspaper, not an e-commerce site: the point is to read the articles, not to be distractedly clicking links mid sentence like Wikipedia. Rollovers are subtle but discoverable. Not so sure about the red italics for unimportant update info, although I like the blue for offsite links. A side note that I recently discovered the learn more ? balloon on the NYTimes website. Click and drag to select text, and a ? appears, allowing you to search on the term in a secondary window. (Unfortunately the default is to search Answers.com, but you can switch it to the NYTimes archive.) They've added metadata to links, so you get a help balloon that might say learn more or it might say links to an Iraqi blog on elections. It doesn't work on the home page, only on the articles. Very subtle. Maybe like the LA Times, a little too subtle for some tastes. But I hope a sign of where we're headed, if the main print journalism sources survive the next decade. Diana On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 12:00 AM, Steven Johnsonsteven.john...@disney.com wrote: The new L.A. Times web redesign launched last night. IA-wise, it's basically the same site, but the look-and-feel more strongly embraces the print idiom (e.g., Georgia font). I feel like the big news is that they've dropped link colors from headlines, nav, etc. Latimes.com is my alma mater (1999-2006), and I now also teach web publishing at Annenberg School of Journalism at USC. I'd really like to get some feedback on the redesign from the IxD/UED community to bring back to the J-school and print publishing worlds. Please have a look: http://www.latimes.com/ Thanks. Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Latimes.com Redesign - No Link Colors
I think this is a big point. On Aug 16, 2009, at 7:33 PM, Diana Wynne wrote: Rollovers are subtle but discoverable. Not that they're subtle and not that one can find them - no, the big point is that they're 'discoverable'. That word is important, because I think Diana hit on something: the redesign requires one to linger and explore and take it all in. It is most certainly -not- ecommerce, and I don't even think they were going for quick information news. Heck if you want that, go to any RSS reader. No, what they've created here is the same sensation one gets while sipping a cup of coffee and watching the sun sneak into the kitchen in the morning while browsing through the paper. Except this time on a laptop. Same coffee, same kitchen, same morning sunrise. Same reading sensation. Different medium. Kudos latimes.com, kudos. Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Latimes.com Redesign - No Link Colors
Andrei, I have to disagree. Your point can be taken on the home page, but what about every other page of the site? That's where I think it's even more problematic. When you go to an interior page they carry the same design through, and then the percentage of non-linked body copy to other links is the other way around (90% non-linked), making it much harder to find links. (and what about links within the stories themselves? any cues there?) From a usability perspective, it seems to me that this is a huge drawback. Even milliseconds spent figuring out where to click can have a hugely detrimental affect on the usability (or even just the perceived usability) of a web site. There are enough ways to balance clean design while maintaining visual cues that this just seems like the wrong answer. As mentioned above though, it would be REALLY interesting to see some user testing data of the site with and without visual cues in the design. Cheers, Jason . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=44633 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
[IxDA Discuss] Latimes.com Redesign - No Link Colors
The new L.A. Times web redesign launched last night. IA-wise, it's basically the same site, but the look-and-feel more strongly embraces the print idiom (e.g., Georgia font). I feel like the big news is that they've dropped link colors from headlines, nav, etc. Latimes.com is my alma mater (1999-2006), and I now also teach web publishing at Annenberg School of Journalism at USC. I'd really like to get some feedback on the redesign from the IxD/UED community to bring back to the J-school and print publishing worlds. Please have a look: http://www.latimes.com/ Thanks. Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Latimes.com Redesign - No Link Colors
I can't distinguish link text from static text unless I painstakingly mouse over the whole page. What were they thinking!? - Make out website look like a news paper, because we're a news paper company. - News papers don't have hyperlinks. - Don't show hyperlinks on our website. I think someone at the LA Times needs to do a quick CSS tweak. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=44633 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Latimes.com Redesign - No Link Colors
It's a little disconcerting at first, but by now I know where the links will be in a news site, so I naturally mouse to the appropriate spots, and the underlines immediately come into view to confirm my choices. It's an interesting concept. Keeps the news looking like a newspaper. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=44633 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Latimes.com Redesign - No Link Colors
Steven -
I don't recall the previous site although I have visited it from
time-to-time. I agree that the current design looks much more print
based (being primarily black!), but the inability for users to easily
spot links slightly worries me. I know that most will work it out, but
my own feeling is that playing hide-and-seek with the mouse is only fun
for so long. I would much rather that people could quickly and
accurately mark all the links on a screen shot, without having to
mouse-around looking for them. Having said that, they are being fairly
consistent in making headings links, but their occasional use of colour
is sometimes for a link ('photos' for example) and sometimes for other
reasons ('7:30 am'). It's pretty, but not good UX design, albeit at a
micro level.
Regards,
William Hudson
Syntagm Ltd
Design for Usability
UK 01235-522859
World +44-1235-522859
US Toll Free 1-866-SYNTAGM
mailto:william.hud...@syntagm.co.uk
http://www.syntagm.co.uk
skype:williamhudsonskype
Syntagm is a limited company registered in England and Wales (1985).
Registered number: 1895345. Registered office: 10 Oxford Road, Abingdon
OX14 2DS.
-Original Message-
From: new-boun...@ixda.org [mailto:new-boun...@ixda.org] On Behalf Of
Steven Johnson
Sent: 13 August 2009 8:00 AM
To: disc...@ixda.org
Subject: [IxDA Discuss] Latimes.com Redesign - No Link Colors
Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org
Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe
List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines
List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Latimes.com Redesign - No Link Colors
While we all can give our collective opinions on this redesign, what I'd like to know is if they did any testing on their design before it went live. Maybe they discovered that their users didn't have any issues with no colors or underlines on links. Maybe they didn't do any testing and will now be inundated with emails. Maybe someone has contacts there and can find out? From a design standpoint, I love the graphic of the inkblot at the bottom of the footer. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=44633 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Latimes.com Redesign - No Link Colors
On Aug 13, 2009, at 9:13 AM, William Hudson wrote: I agree that the current design looks much more print based (being primarily black!), but the inability for users to easily spot links slightly worries me. More than 90% of the content on the home page is a link. What's the point of adding underlines to everything when nearly everything is clickable? I think the redesign is great. And now the major media companies have all finally gotten on the bandwagon to bring structured, clean graphic design back in fashion. It's about time. -- Andrei Herasimchuk Chief Design Officer, Involution Studios innovating the digital world e. and...@involutionstudios.com c. +1 408 306 6422 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Latimes.com Redesign - No Link Colors
I have to agree with Andrei on this one. The home page looks nice and clean and readable. It also happens to be almost all links. If you filter into an actual article you will see that the links are actually called out in a different color. Take this article for example: http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-clunkers14-2009aug14,0,6884703.story In it you see there is a link to cars.gov which is in blue. If everything on the home page is understandably linkable then I don't expect it to all be in a bright blue color but instead readable. I think the one thing they could have done is maybe make those one or two intro lines for the one or two stories that are not links on the page links but at that point, who really cares. The headline and the picture are linking to the story so does it really matter. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=44633 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Latimes.com Redesign - No Link Colors
A particular area I find awkward is the traffic page. Was it like this before the redesign? The size of the page's primary content prevents it from fitting above the fold -- you have to scroll to see the bottom of the iFrame, and even then you still have to scroll on the iFrame to see all of what's in it. I get that it's syndicated content, but... surely there's a better way. I like the revised look, and don't mind the lack of colored links, but can't wait to hear whether they did testing. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=44633 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Latimes.com Redesign - No Link Colors
echoing Neil Cadsawanwould love to know about LAT's user research and testing efforts! . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=44633 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
