Re: [IxDA Discuss] Undergraduate Curriculum in HCI
On Jun 1, 2009, at 7:25 PM, dave malouf wrote: 1) 80% of what UX practitioners do has been done within some context of ID for few decades longer. I'm going to take exception to this. I think Dave is using his rose colored glasses filter here. 8^) Or at least the lack of context is missing. That context is: what kind of products are you designing? If we are talking about software related products (web apps, RIAs, desktop clients, even heavy interactive, Ajax type web sites) where the screen display is a large part of the work involved, I'd have to say neither ID nor GD has the general advantage here. Both are fairly relevant in the design thinking that helps one get into designing those kinds of products effectively. The reason I think is this: With software, there's a heavy dose of GD fundamentals that can get someone very far into the product before the wall of interaction is hit simply because the very nature of software is that its rendered on a screen display of some kind. The thing is that interaction for software is an order of magnitude less (for lack of a good term right now) or at least contained than what one does when building physical products, digital components or not. So I tend to find ID types generally do adequate when presented with software design problems, but lacking core GD fundamentals like grid and composition general relegates their work to be average overall. The reverse becomes true of GD types. The display is gorgeous, but the lack of effective interaction design brings the whole thing down to the average level. There are obviously exceptions to all of this. Will this change as software becomes even more dynamic and advanced, like with the blocks examples of mini-computers talking to each other as shown at TED? Sure. How far is that out? Anyone's guess at this stage. But at this point in time, I don't take the position that ID is a better training ground for software related products. I feel it's incredibly valuable, but you're going to be better suited by picking major courses in either ID or GD as a primary focus, then supplementing those course with at least the fundamentals of the other, if not full on deep course work across the board if you want to design software related products. 2) Its relationship to ergo/HF practice is very well established This is certainly true. 3) the great programs out there get context of use, and practice/teach some form of design research (i.e. anthro design). This is wash in my opinion. So do great GD programs. In fact, GD is all about communication and context, which for software related products translates fairly well Now, having said all of that, if you are trying to design a product like Photoshop, I'm not sure which kind of person I'd prefer to have to design that if building a team at this point in time. I would expect ID trained designers would fair better with some of the core fundamentals of it since Photoshop is really *all* interaction and very little visual, but that has not been my experience. I've found very people who truly understand what it means to design traditional tool based software anymore, for whatever reason. -- Andrei Herasimchuk Chief Design Officer, Involution Studios innovating the digital world e. and...@involutionstudios.com c. +1 408 306 6422 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Undergraduate Curriculum in HCI
Hi Chris, As regard your 4th question. I find Jon Kolko (who used to be at SCAD) resources on design education very helpful. You might want to check them out to get an idea of the content and topics and how much they hold your interest. Design Education http://www.jonkolko.com/education.php Good luck --Dennis . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=42102 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Undergraduate Curriculum in HCI
Thank you all for the replies, I'd welcome any other advice. Since it seems that the field may not currently respect the idea of IxD as an undergraduate program, I may pursue something in Graphic Design. I suppose it's good that I'm getting this information now, though it is somewhat disconcerting. Other comments or criticisms are welcome. Thanks again. PS: Does anyone have any experience with any combination of architecture (in education or practice) and hci? . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=42102 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Undergraduate Curriculum in HCI
Chris, I love graphic design, so there is no intended diss in what I'm about to say and I know it REALLY depends on the specific program, but out of the common undergraduate degrees out there, the one that will prepare you the most as an IxD is NOT GD. Hands down industrial design is better. 1) 80% of what UX practitioners do has been done within some context of ID for few decades longer. 2) Its relationship to ergo/HF practice is very well established 3) the great programs out there get context of use, and practice/teach some form of design research (i.e. anthro design). I don't know if UVA has an ID dept. I know tht VTech's is very highly regarded. But SCAD (plug time) is just a short 8hr. drive down I-95 AND!!! it is the only undergraduate program in the country that offers a minor in Interaction design specifically. AND you can take the minor from any major: GD, Interactive Design Game Development and obviously (and most popularly) Industrial Design. Of course SCAD isn't for everyone, but I think you should map your career path 1st and then choose a school instead of choosing a school 1st., IMHO. BTW, there are other great design or even state schools with design colleges that I would consider (and many private schools as well). Take a look at http://iact.in/ to see a little tidbit of some recent work. -- dave . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=42102 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Undergraduate Curriculum in HCI
Dave is quite bias regarding schools (and he should be). He is absolutely right on this point. Mark On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 2:25 PM, dave malouf dave@gmail.com wrote: but out of the common undergraduate degrees out there, the one that will prepare you the most as an IxD is NOT GD. Hands down industrial design is better. Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Undergraduate Curriculum in HCI
I'd agree wholeheartedly with Dave - my original Industrial Design major (back in 1980!) was a natural fit for me when I started UX in the mid 1990s (starting with embedded control systems before moving on to web design and web applications). The thinking and task solving design processes you go through in ID are very similar to what I now do in UX, and the long term discipline and project management needed for ID also suits UX projects (which tend to last a lot longer than most graphic design projects). I learnt my visual/graphic design skills by taking on some graphic design electives such as typography and life drawing, but the ID major stream gave me a great foundation on which to build my career in web and application design. Loving it ever since! Good luck! . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=42102 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Undergraduate Curriculum in HCI
Hey Chris - As someone working in the field and as a Virginia graduate, I would say I think you can relax for two reasons. 1. Virginia is an excellent school 2. Very few people are assured jobs based on their undergraduate course of study There was no undergrad program available for most people working in the field now, including the people who are writing the books that you would be reading if there WAS a decent undergrad program. :-) I majored in Asian Studies (Chinese) and English, and minored in Oriental Languages (Japanese). I took one computer science class (Pascal, I think) and dropped it because I had too many credits and because I thought it was boring. I didn't really get interested in design at all until after I graduated. I'm not holding myself up as any sort of exemplar in the field, but I do get paid to do this. Writing is a critical skill, so you could do worse than to be an English major, if you end up not liking the HCI dept. If you maintain your interest in the field and do well in school, I don't think any doors will be closed to you in IxD as a result of attending U.Va. You'd be surprised just how many products are out there in need of better design. They can't all get CM (or SCAD) grads. :-) Best of luck - Michael On May 18, 2009, at 6:18 PM, Chris wrote: Thanks for your time. I've recently been accepted to the University of Virginia for undergraduate work. I like this university a great deal, but I'm concerned that because they seem to be lacking in a design department (except arts), it may be suboptimal for preparation toward a career in Human-Computer Interaction Design. I have read the obligatory two pages of Google results, as well as contacted Mr. Dan Saffer and several others in the past about how to go about planning an undergraduate curriculum. Specifically I read Dan's Article * on this very topic, but he has since then posted more ideas which I am unable to recover in a Google search with the time I've allotted for this project today. In any case, I have taken to the idea of designing an interdisciplinary curriculum based on the best programs in practice at this time. I've read over Carnegie Mellon's bachelor's in HCI**, and I believe many (if not all) of the courses will be available at UVA. I will continue updating here as I gather more information, but the primary reason for my posting is that I would like to gather this community's opinions on the following: 1) Is HCI or any related discipline a reasonable undergraduate degree? Why or why not? 2) How can this (or a similar) first undergraduate program be approached in such a way that it will both provide a strong understanding of the work involved in Interaction Design, and grant proof of competence (and thus fulfill the requirement of HCI undergraduate education on job applications)? What would the degree-specific courses look like? 3) Speaking in terms of UVA specifically, can a degree be conferred from a listing of courses that are not tailored specifically to design itself? Their courses range from cognitive science to computer science to art to human factors and interactivity. I plan to provide a list of applicable coursework from their course catalog*** as I learn more. 4) What other thoughts do you have in regard to this subject? I'm keen on designing for interactivity and I would like my curriculum to mirror these interests. Thank you very much for any consideration or advice toward a creative solution to these issues. --Chris * So you want to be an Interaction Designer http://adaptivepath.com/ideas/essays/archives/000656.php ** Carnegie Mellon's Secondary Undergraduate Curriculum http://www.hcii.cmu.edu/undergraduate-major-curriculum *** University of Virginia Course Catalog (I will be pulling courses primarily from the College of Arts and Sciences). http://etg08.itc.virginia.edu/cod.pages/20092/cod.html Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Undergraduate Curriculum in HCI
I'll bite. I run the *MINOR* in interaction design here at Savannah College of Art Design. Bill Moggridge recently came out and said that a major as an undergrad in IxD is not valuable at this time. That the requirements of the form giving design programs should include IxD in it. And I can't agree more! To this point, if you aren't at a design school you will not be learning to design. You'll be learning how to research, how to evaluate and how to engineer, but not design. You won't learn about aesthetics and you won't learn about design thinking and other core methods and practices towards applied creative thinking. That being said, if you want to be a designer, I would not (you asked for an opinion and I'm giving it to you; and people will disagree) go into an HCI program. I would go to a design school and join a program in graphic design, interactive design or industrial design to learn design and then add the concentration of HCI IxD specific stuff to that course load through electives. If you can't go to a out of state or private schools due to cost (totally reasonable) try to get into a design program like that at Virginia Tech. if you can go private or out of state and the technical side is as important to you as the aesthetic side, then be sure to go to a school that offers both sides like CMU, UCLA, Stanford, Berkeley, the list goes on and on. OR! come down here to Savannah SCAD. I've only been here a short time, but I can say confidently you will never work harder in your life, nor be more ready for the real world. You get out of it what you put into it. Anyway, as to specific curriculum I'd put it this way: Series of studios in Interactive Media and Production (2D) Series of studios in interactive PRODUCT design (3D) Research methods (generative/contextual evaluative) General HF (erogonomics, cognitive/perception) Art History Critique Design History Critique Anthropology/Sociology Cultural Criticism Business/Economics/Management Computer Science Math Lit Composition Speaking Presentation That should do you well right there! Have fun! and Good Luck! -- dave . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=42102 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Undergraduate Curriculum in HCI
To echo Dave's point, and Bill's via Dave, an undergraduate degree in HCI _only_ is probably not a good idea. To clarify CMU's program. It is not a first major -- you can't just major in HCI. It is a *second* major. A student has to have a first major in something else (Design, CS, Psychology, Business, English, Art, Engineering, etc) and then apply for the second major in HCI, fulfilling all the requirements for both. This is a reflection of the fact that you have to be disciplinary in something before you can be inter-disciplinary! I absolutely agree that you should go to a school that has stand-alone programs in each of the areas you are interested in. But we believe there are three sides (not two): Design, Technical (e.g., CS) and Psychology (both cognitive to understand perception, problem-solving, learning, etc., and social, to understand the behavior of groups now that the technology is up to social networking). Best of luck. Bonnie dave malouf wrote: I'll bite. I run the *MINOR* in interaction design here at Savannah College of Art Design. Bill Moggridge recently came out and said that a major as an undergrad in IxD is not valuable at this time. That the requirements of the form giving design programs should include IxD in it. And I can't agree more! To this point, if you aren't at a design school you will not be learning to design. You'll be learning how to research, how to evaluate and how to engineer, but not design. You won't learn about aesthetics and you won't learn about design thinking and other core methods and practices towards applied creative thinking. That being said, if you want to be a designer, I would not (you asked for an opinion and I'm giving it to you; and people will disagree) go into an HCI program. I would go to a design school and join a program in graphic design, interactive design or industrial design to learn design and then add the concentration of HCI IxD specific stuff to that course load through electives. If you can't go to a out of state or private schools due to cost (totally reasonable) try to get into a design program like that at Virginia Tech. if you can go private or out of state and the technical side is as important to you as the aesthetic side, then be sure to go to a school that offers both sides like CMU, UCLA, Stanford, Berkeley, the list goes on and on. OR! come down here to Savannah SCAD. I've only been here a short time, but I can say confidently you will never work harder in your life, nor be more ready for the real world. You get out of it what you put into it. Anyway, as to specific curriculum I'd put it this way: Series of studios in Interactive Media and Production (2D) Series of studios in interactive PRODUCT design (3D) Research methods (generative/contextual evaluative) General HF (erogonomics, cognitive/perception) Art History Critique Design History Critique Anthropology/Sociology Cultural Criticism Business/Economics/Management Computer Science Math Lit Composition Speaking Presentation That should do you well right there! Have fun! and Good Luck! -- dave . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=42102 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Undergraduate Curriculum in HCI
*Thank You* so much for including Psychology in your triad! I don't feel Cognitive, Social (and Neuroscience) don't get the recognition they deserve when it comes to full HCI perspectives. On May 19, 2009, at 10:40 AM, Bonnie John wrote: To echo Dave's point, and Bill's via Dave, an undergraduate degree in HCI _only_ is probably not a good idea. To clarify CMU's program. It is not a first major -- you can't just major in HCI. It is a *second* major. A student has to have a first major in something else (Design, CS, Psychology, Business, English, Art, Engineering, etc) and then apply for the second major in HCI, fulfilling all the requirements for both. This is a reflection of the fact that you have to be disciplinary in something before you can be inter-disciplinary! I absolutely agree that you should go to a school that has stand- alone programs in each of the areas you are interested in. But we believe there are three sides (not two): Design, Technical (e.g., CS) and Psychology (both cognitive to understand perception, problem- solving, learning, etc., and social, to understand the behavior of groups now that the technology is up to social networking). Best of luck. Bonnie dave malouf wrote: I'll bite. I run the *MINOR* in interaction design here at Savannah College of Art Design. Bill Moggridge recently came out and said that a major as an undergrad in IxD is not valuable at this time. That the requirements of the form giving design programs should include IxD in it. And I can't agree more! To this point, if you aren't at a design school you will not be learning to design. You'll be learning how to research, how to evaluate and how to engineer, but not design. You won't learn about aesthetics and you won't learn about design thinking and other core methods and practices towards applied creative thinking. That being said, if you want to be a designer, I would not (you asked for an opinion and I'm giving it to you; and people will disagree) go into an HCI program. I would go to a design school and join a program in graphic design, interactive design or industrial design to learn design and then add the concentration of HCI IxD specific stuff to that course load through electives. If you can't go to a out of state or private schools due to cost (totally reasonable) try to get into a design program like that at Virginia Tech. if you can go private or out of state and the technical side is as important to you as the aesthetic side, then be sure to go to a school that offers both sides like CMU, UCLA, Stanford, Berkeley, the list goes on and on. OR! come down here to Savannah SCAD. I've only been here a short time, but I can say confidently you will never work harder in your life, nor be more ready for the real world. You get out of it what you put into it. Anyway, as to specific curriculum I'd put it this way: Series of studios in Interactive Media and Production (2D) Series of studios in interactive PRODUCT design (3D) Research methods (generative/contextual evaluative) General HF (erogonomics, cognitive/perception) Art History Critique Design History Critique Anthropology/Sociology Cultural Criticism Business/Economics/Management Computer Science Math Lit Composition Speaking Presentation That should do you well right there! Have fun! and Good Luck! -- dave . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=42102 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
[IxDA Discuss] Undergraduate Curriculum in HCI
Thanks for your time. I've recently been accepted to the University of Virginia for undergraduate work. I like this university a great deal, but I'm concerned that because they seem to be lacking in a design department (except arts), it may be suboptimal for preparation toward a career in Human-Computer Interaction Design. I have read the obligatory two pages of Google results, as well as contacted Mr. Dan Saffer and several others in the past about how to go about planning an undergraduate curriculum. Specifically I read Dan's Article * on this very topic, but he has since then posted more ideas which I am unable to recover in a Google search with the time I've allotted for this project today. In any case, I have taken to the idea of designing an interdisciplinary curriculum based on the best programs in practice at this time. I've read over Carnegie Mellon's bachelor's in HCI**, and I believe many (if not all) of the courses will be available at UVA. I will continue updating here as I gather more information, but the primary reason for my posting is that I would like to gather this community's opinions on the following: 1) Is HCI or any related discipline a reasonable undergraduate degree? Why or why not? 2) How can this (or a similar) first undergraduate program be approached in such a way that it will both provide a strong understanding of the work involved in Interaction Design, and grant proof of competence (and thus fulfill the requirement of HCI undergraduate education on job applications)? What would the degree-specific courses look like? 3) Speaking in terms of UVA specifically, can a degree be conferred from a listing of courses that are not tailored specifically to design itself? Their courses range from cognitive science to computer science to art to human factors and interactivity. I plan to provide a list of applicable coursework from their course catalog*** as I learn more. 4) What other thoughts do you have in regard to this subject? I'm keen on designing for interactivity and I would like my curriculum to mirror these interests. Thank you very much for any consideration or advice toward a creative solution to these issues. --Chris * So you want to be an Interaction Designer http://adaptivepath.com/ideas/essays/archives/000656.php ** Carnegie Mellon's Secondary Undergraduate Curriculum http://www.hcii.cmu.edu/undergraduate-major-curriculum *** University of Virginia Course Catalog (I will be pulling courses primarily from the College of Arts and Sciences). http://etg08.itc.virginia.edu/cod.pages/20092/cod.html Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
