Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Promoting freely available geodata
Chris Holmes wrote: Do you have a link to the Database Directive stuff on osm-talk? I checked out the list but there's a lot there and wasn't sure which posts to read. I just got off the phone with the lead counsel of Science Commons, which is the branch of CC made to deal with data. It was an interesting conversation, though unfortunately not much good news for CC licenses for Geodata. Thanks for all this :-) The very quick story is that they don't believe copyright can be applied to any geospatial data. Thus creative commons licenses don't work, since The thing with that argument is that there are lots of people with data and money who probably hold the opposite view, eg Ordnance Survey. This was data only right, not cartographic interpretations eg maps? they depend on copyright. So people providing data have two options - public domain or make a contract that completely restricts it. Yes, I've been thinking about the latter. He did give some insight in to how one would make such a regime of licenses if one wanted to. Copyright law doesn't work, since you can't copyright data. Maps can be copyrighted, but if you can reverse engineer and extract the data out of them, then that result can not be copyrighted. IANAL. We have case law here in the UK where big company a (the AA) was taken to court by b (the OS) because they copied their maps. The clincher was that they also copied fake streets, easter eggs, trap streets in the map. This gave away that they copied 'their' map. So does it fall down because these are not facts, they're creative secrets? If in your next conversation or otherwise you could ask about this it would be super helpful. So what you would have to do is use contract law. It would be a contract similar to a non-disclosure agreement - you can't disclose the information contained in this database unless you follow the set terms. And you could do copyleft type things in the terms, but it's definitely trickier, and you somehow have to get people to accept that contract. Which I suppose isn't insurmountable, since Google Maps and their data providers manage to get you to accept a contract to not reverse engineer and use tiles off line and the like. It would be super useful if you could also ask 'can we use a CC license as a contract? That is, if the data is not copyrightable, can we say to people you may use this data AS IF IT WERE copyrightable, with this CC license if they sign a contract / tick a box' have fun, SteveC [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.asklater.com/steve/ ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Promoting freely available geodata
Chris Holmes wrote: Do you have a link to the Database Directive stuff on osm-talk? I checked out the list but there's a lot there and wasn't sure which posts to read. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Database_directive mostly it just follows from that page... maybe richard could help more? have fun, SteveC [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.asklater.com/steve/ ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSGeo-Discuss] Promoting freely available geodata
SteveC wrote: The very quick story is that they don't believe copyright can be applied to any geospatial data. Thus creative commons licenses don't work, since The thing with that argument is that there are lots of people with data and money who probably hold the opposite view, eg Ordnance Survey. This was data only right, not cartographic interpretations eg maps? they depend on copyright. So people providing data have two options - public domain or make a contract that completely restricts it. To add to that, if anyone really believed that then we'd all be copying out the vector data and street names from tons of maps... so something's not right? have fun, SteveC [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.asklater.com/steve/ ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSGeo-Discuss] Promoting freely available geodata
SteveC wrote: Chris Holmes wrote: Do you have a link to the Database Directive stuff on osm-talk? I checked out the list but there's a lot there and wasn't sure which posts to read. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Database_directive mostly it just follows from that page... maybe richard could help more? Sure. The database right has only been discussed sporadically on legal-talk so it's probably better to go to the sources. Definitely, definitely read http://edina.ac.uk/projects/grade/gradeDigitalRightsIssues.pdf because it's a very cogent and readable discussion of copyright and database right as they apply to geodata. It's almost exactly the question we're asking, the only unknown being that for a collaborative project like OSM, we also have to consider who owns the database right - OSM Foundation (maybe as maker of the database) or the individual users (traditionally believed to be the copyright holders in OSM circles). If you want to know more about EU database right then the definitive case is William Hill vs British Horseracing Board. Google will turn up zillions on this, but make sure any commentary you read was written after the European Courts of Justice ruling (it had been to lots of prior appeals). Don't forget differences between jurisdictions: - US - geodata can't be copyrighted, no database right exists - EU - geodata can't be copyrighted (according to paper cited above) but is subject to database right Insert maybe and probably in the above sentences until you're happy with them :) cheers Richard ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [Geodata] Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Promoting freely available geodata
On 3/30/07, Jason Birch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Kamloops (Canadian municipality) takes an interesting approach. They have a click-through, but it's not asserting any rights, just disclaiming liability. Their GIS manager explained that they are essentially placing the data into public domain: I like the Kamloops language and may barrow a bit of it (assuming it's not copyrighted g). Below is a link to some language I wrote, and that has been out there for about 10 years. I am not suggesting that it is exemplary because I'm sure not a lawyer, but it has a unique clause requiring reciprocal data sharing by users. The county for which I wrote the statement requires surveyors and engineers to provide digital files (AutoCad, etc.) for new subdivisions and other developments. http://www2.tetonwyo.org/gis/download/default.asp Rich -- Richard Greenwood [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.greenwoodmap.com ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
