Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Can I do the same GIS tasks with OS (as with ESRI)?
Paul Ramsey ha scritto: I'd buck up for a copy of ArcView (much cheaper than ArcGIS), and use GRASS / PostGIS / etc tools for things like analysis. You can use ArcView to generate the paper and do some quick low-end analytics and the other tools for more involved stuff. A reasonably good replacement for ArcView is also QGIS (which integrates nicely with GRASS, btw). pc -- Paolo Cavallini, see: http://www.faunalia.it/pc Noi ci troviamo con parecchie difficoltà con NGI http://www.ngi.it/ ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Can I do the same GIS tasks with OS (as with ESRI)?
George R. C. Silva ha scritto: One thing GIS OS software could have are better editing tools. I do miss them alot, and the one is ArcGIS are unbeatable (i dont know any O.S. software that have 'autocomplete polygon', tons of snapping options, etc - btw, if you do, let me know). Have you tried GRASS and the latest (0.9.2rc1) QGIS for PostGIS editing? pc -- Paolo Cavallini, see: http://www.faunalia.it/pc Noi ci troviamo con parecchie difficoltà con NGI http://www.ngi.it/ ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Can I do the same GIS tasks with OS (as with ESRI)?
Paolo, Among the things that QGIS (and other open source desktops) can't do are a table join, a spatial join, high quality paper output, and symbolized thematic mapping. Particular drawbacks of QGIS include the single-threaded user interface model (ui locks during render, making work with large files very stop-n-go) and relatively simple editing tools. I think it's contingent on us as evangelizers to not over-sell. I would not recommend QGIS or any other open source desktop to someone whose prior experience was Arc* until I had a clear understanding of the use case. In response to the query can I replace ArcView with open source, my answer is in general, no, but maybe for a specific use case. P. On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 11:37 PM, Paolo Cavallini [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Paul Ramsey ha scritto: I'd buck up for a copy of ArcView (much cheaper than ArcGIS), and use GRASS / PostGIS / etc tools for things like analysis. You can use ArcView to generate the paper and do some quick low-end analytics and the other tools for more involved stuff. A reasonably good replacement for ArcView is also QGIS (which integrates nicely with GRASS, btw). pc -- Paolo Cavallini, see: http://www.faunalia.it/pc Noi ci troviamo con parecchie difficoltà con NGI http://www.ngi.it/ ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Can I do the same GIS tasks with OS (as with ESRI)?
On 25.04.2008 17:55, Paul Ramsey wrote: Paolo, Among the things that QGIS (and other open source desktops) can't do are a table join, a spatial join I'm not sure what you mean with spatial join, but if you mean overlay, and raster combination GRASS can do, and it can also do table joins, while it overlays two vector layers. In response to the query can I replace ArcView with open source, my answer is in general, no, but maybe for a specific use case. I'd say: In general yes (In some respects GRASS is superior to Arc in analysis), but some things can be harder / more complicated or not possible. GRASS is a perfectly capable desktop GIS package with over 200 modules. --Wolf -- :3 ) Wolf Bergenheim ( 8: ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Can I do the same GIS tasks with OS (as with ESRI)?
Among the things that QGIS (and other open source desktops) can't do are a table join, a spatial join I'm not sure what you mean with spatial join, but if you mean overlay, and raster combination GRASS can do, and it can also do table joins, while it overlays two vector layers. In response to the query can I replace ArcView with open source, my answer is in general, no, but maybe for a specific use case. I'd say: In general yes (In some respects GRASS is superior to Arc in analysis), but some things can be harder / more complicated or not possible. GRASS is a perfectly capable desktop GIS package with over 200 modules. I agree with Paul, power without control doesn't lead anywhere. GRASS is of huge power, but following my past commercial experiences, I would say in general no, because most times they don't want the overhead of GRASS for exactly those things they need. Andrea --Wolf -- :3 ) Wolf Bergenheim ( 8: ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Can I do the same GIS tasks with OS (as with ESRI)?
I agree with some of the other responses that challenge the way of traditional thinking. Desktop GIS, Web and Databases are the tools of today - it's interesting to watch the various ways they come together (collide?) in projects. If you look to replace desktop proprietary options, you may find that web-based tools start to fit the bill. Or to do analysis you may find the database tools open up more possibilities, etc.. Personally I find it a great challenge to keep up with various developments in the OS field. Even within OSGeo projects there is so much happening that it is hard to know which hurdles have been overcome or not. For example, projects like GRASS, QGIS, gvSIG all have goals to improve various components and their improvements are at various stages. Some, like gvSIG, have specific goals to fill the exact needs you have. QGIS + GRASS makes a powerful combination, though I can't speak to its usability. gvSIG + SEXTANTE makes similar strides in power. Then there are the service-based opportunities using WPS via PyWPS, deegree, 52 North, etc. I've got no hard answer because I feel the goal posts are constantly moving, and the others have touched on more specifics. Hope that general answers helps somewhat. Tyler On 24-Apr-08, at 12:41 PM, Jennifer Horsman wrote: The thread that was started today with the subject Your open source career got me thinking about asking a question that has been rolling around in my head. This is pointed at those people who have experience with ESRI products as well as OS GIS products. I have been a long-time user of ESRI products, but I want to start my own contract business and will not be able to afford the license for ArcGIS/ArcInfo. So I recently set up a Linux box with GRASS installed, but it has been over 10 years since I have used GRASS (it has probably changed since then too!) Does GRASS have the same analysis and display capabilities as ArcGIS? I know this is a very general question, so perhaps another question would be where does GRASS fall short and where does it excel in comparison to the ESRI products? Thanks, Jennifer ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Can I do the same GIS tasks with OS (as with ESRI)?
andrea antonello wrote: Among the things that QGIS (and other open source desktops) can't do are a table join, a spatial join I'm not sure what you mean with spatial join, but if you mean overlay, and raster combination GRASS can do, and it can also do table joins, while it overlays two vector layers. In response to the query can I replace ArcView with open source, my answer is in general, no, but maybe for a specific use case. I'd say: In general yes (In some respects GRASS is superior to Arc in analysis), but some things can be harder / more complicated or not possible. GRASS is a perfectly capable desktop GIS package with over 200 modules. I agree with Paul, power without control doesn't lead anywhere. GRASS is of huge power, but following my past commercial experiences, I Hehe, didn't you just say my past proprietary experiences? Sorry to be dense and all that... :-) PS: What was a Desktop GIS exactly? I only have a browser and for some strange reason all that I do starts with an http://... would say in general no, because most times they don't want the overhead of GRASS for exactly those things they need. Andrea --Wolf -- :3 ) Wolf Bergenheim ( 8: ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Can I do the same GIS tasks with OS (as with ESRI)?
On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 08:21:21PM +0200, Arnulf Christl wrote: What was a Desktop GIS exactly? I only have a browser and for some strange reason all that I do starts with an http://... A Desktop GIS is what you switch to when you realize that the browser makes a really poor operating system, and moving outside of it and using the rest of your computer is important to accomplishing some tasks. The browser is great for a lot of things. There are also many things it is not great for. Knowing the difference is an important step to being successful in creating a solution that works well to meet the needs of the problem. Regards, -- Christopher Schmidt Web Developer ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Can I do the same GIS tasks with OS (as with ESRI)?
On Fri, April 25, 2008 20:51, Christopher Schmidt wrote: On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 08:21:21PM +0200, Arnulf Christl wrote: What was a Desktop GIS exactly? I only have a browser and for some strange reason all that I do starts with an http://... A Desktop GIS is what you switch to when you realize that the browser makes a really poor operating system, and moving outside of it and using the rest of your computer is important to accomplishing some tasks. This makes for a good redefinition of Desktop GIS. Pity my HD is too flimsy to carry all those PB of data. The browser is great for a lot of things. There are also many things it is not great for. Knowing the difference is an important step to being successful in creating a solution that works well to meet the needs of the problem. Think Programmable Web and Basement GIS. Regards, -- Christopher Schmidt Web Developer Regards, -- Arnulf Christl Legacy GIS Architect ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Can I do the same GIS tasks with OS (as with ESRI)?
On 4/25/08, Arnulf Christl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: .. Legacy GIS Architect In the world of neogeography punks, this is a nice throwback to the future. ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Can I do the same GIS tasks with OS (as with ESRI)?
I agree with Paul, power without control doesn't lead anywhere. GRASS is of huge power, but following my past commercial experiences, I Hehe, didn't you just say my past proprietary experiences? Sorry to be dense and all that... No worries, but I really meant: my past commercial experienses, i.e. proprietary and not, but for sure commercial. We are talking about bussiness, are we? Yes, I think we are :-) PS: What was a Desktop GIS exactly? I only have a browser and for some strange reason all that I do starts with an http://... We are an example of bussiness that earn money without a http://, just heavy environmental calculations. Don't know a thing about http. Even if 98% is about web, not everything is :-) Ciao Andrea would say in general no, because most times they don't want the overhead of GRASS for exactly those things they need. Andrea --Wolf -- :3 ) Wolf Bergenheim ( 8: ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Can I do the same GIS tasks with OS (as with ESRI)?
Hi, this is the kind of question I face when in my lectures evangelising OS GIS. ArcGIS has many tools, though some prefer to call it a deluge of tools, which almost distance the user from understanding the concept of GIS. Auto Complete Polygon: In Qgis which is a very userfriendly OS GIS you have 'Cut polygon', do try and find the difference. Polygonising from lines: Open JUMP has one of the most userfriendly approaches. Create lines and polygonise in OpenJUMP and the software automatically creates a folder for Dangles (un-wanted line pieces) The query is more for Vector GIS, I suppose. GRASS GIS: It has so many features for Image analysis and Raster GIS, the commercial GIS need a barge pole to even touch it. The vector Part of GRASS is robust too. Ravi Kumar Markus Neteler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 11:55 PM, George R. C. Silva wrote: ... One thing GIS OS software could have are better editing tools. I do miss them alot, and the one is ArcGIS are unbeatable (i dont know any O.S. software that have 'autocomplete polygon', tons of snapping options, etc - btw, if you do, let me know). FOSS is great, but it lacks (IMHO) better editing options. We are working on that: http://grass.osgeo.org/wiki/WxPython-based_GUI_for_GRASS#Digitizer Screenshots: http://grass.osgeo.org/screenshots/gui.php - wxPython (new GUI) You can try out the prototype in GRASS 6.3.0 (released yesterday): http://grass.osgeo.org/announces/announce_grass630.html Get MacOSX, Linux and now even native MS-Windows binaries with *installer* at http://grass.osgeo.org/download/index.php#g63x Enjoy Markus ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss - Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Can I do the same GIS tasks with OS (as with ESRI)?
Ravi, What us Open Source evangelists are missing is an honest comparison between ESRI desktop applications and Open Source equivalents. What is it about ArcView and ArcGIS that people really like, listed feature by feature in a table. Then identify whether Open Source covers it and how. Very important is to address usability. How quickly can an Arc* user migrate to Open Source? My skill set is lacking here as I don't have much experience in either ESRI or the Open Source desktop tools. It seems like you have experience with both which puts you in a unique position. Is this something you, or one of your students would like to investigate further? Maybe build a table similar to this one: http://www.spatialserver.net/osgis/Desktopgis_overview.htm RAVI KUMAR wrote: Hi, this is the kind of question I face when in my lectures evangelising OS GIS. ArcGIS has many tools, though some prefer to call it a deluge of tools, which almost distance the user from understanding the concept of GIS. Auto Complete Polygon: In Qgis which is a very userfriendly OS GIS you have 'Cut polygon', do try and find the difference. Polygonising from lines: Open JUMP has one of the most userfriendly approaches. Create lines and polygonise in OpenJUMP and the software automatically creates a folder for Dangles (un-wanted line pieces) The query is more for Vector GIS, I suppose. GRASS GIS: It has so many features for Image analysis and Raster GIS, the commercial GIS need a barge pole to even touch it. The vector Part of GRASS is robust too. Ravi Kumar */Markus Neteler [EMAIL PROTECTED]/* wrote: On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 11:55 PM, George R. C. Silva wrote: ... One thing GIS OS software could have are better editing tools. I do miss them alot, and the one is ArcGIS are unbeatable (i dont know any O.S. software that have 'autocomplete polygon', tons of snapping options, etc - btw, if you do, let me know). FOSS is great, but it lacks (IMHO) better editing options. We are working on that: http://grass.osgeo.org/wiki/WxPython-based_GUI_for_GRASS#Digitizer Screenshots: http://grass.osgeo.org/screenshots/gui.php - wxPython (new GUI) You can try out the prototype in GRASS 6.3.0 (released yesterday): http://grass.osgeo.org/announces/announce_grass630.html Get MacOSX, Linux and now even native MS-Windows binaries with *installer* at http://grass.osgeo.org/download/index.php#g63x Enjoy Markus ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=51733/*http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ%20 ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss -- Cameron Shorter Geospatial Systems Architect Tel: +61 (0)2 8570 5050 Mob: +61 (0)419 142 254 Think Globally, Fix Locally Commercial Support for Geospatial Open Source Solutions http://www.lisasoft.com/LISAsoft/SupportedProducts.html ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
