Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Open Source Geospatial Atlas
Yes, and those carto types have workflows that are geared towards how ESRI spits out ai/vector graphics. From my experience, it's much easier to get open source GIS involved through map/database server work or data processing/analysis rather then cartography. I end up doing much of the cartography myself, which I'm sure is NOT suitable for any type of atlas! I agree with what people are saying about adding the metadata, processing steps, etc... making this product better than the ESRI Map Books. Only if you can get enough contributions and it makes sense though. In many cases, for very nice looking maps, the person doing the GIS work may not be the same as the one doing the carto work. And sometimes those processing steps are too complicated or convoluted to write down neatly. It might be obvious but the more you require/add to the atlas, the more effort required by the contributors. - John *** John Callahan, Research Scientist Delaware Geological Survey, University of Delaware URL: http://www.dgs.udel.edu * On Tue, Jul 31, 2012 at 9:35 AM, Barry Rowlingson b.rowling...@lancaster.ac.uk wrote: On Tue, Jul 31, 2012 at 2:26 PM, julia harrell julia.harr...@gmail.com wrote: This would make it a superior product - even if some of the maps aren't quite as 'pretty' as those in the ESRI map book :) Why wouldn't they be as pretty? You're exhibiting the very prejudice I'd like to exterminate! :) Actually it's probably an effect caused by weight-of-numbers and there being more professional carto types using commercial software. Barry -- blog: http://geospaced.blogspot.com/ web: http://www.maths.lancs.ac.uk/~rowlings web: http://www.rowlingson.com/ twitter: http://twitter.com/geospacedman pics: http://www.flickr.com/photos/spacedman ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Open Source Geospatial Atlas
I concur with David here. We publish numerous maps and always use Illustrator (or other design tools) in the workflow process. We are an Arc shop for the map publication work (although I have been able to get QGIS involved in a few places) and have submitted maps to the ESRI Map Books. We just wouldn't publish a map without fine-tuning it in some other design software, regardless of the GIS used. I guess it depends on whether you are showcasing a list of technical features fosGIS software can do, or a cartographically based map product. As long as the software used is clearly listed, I don't think it's realistic to restrict to only the GIS software when producing an atlas. - John On Mon, Jul 30, 2012 at 10:28 AM, David William Bitner bit...@gyttja.orgwrote: I think it important however that people *do not* use Inkscape, unless of course it is being put up as an fosGIS package. Using Inkscape has come about due to the inherent deficiencies in map production in various packages. Any maps produced for such a book need to be produced solely using the package they are meant to be showcasing. Otherwise the resulting map is not representative of what can be produced using a particular GIS package but rather the artistic skill of the cartographer! Simon, I strongly disagree here. One of the best things about Open Source tools is that they often follow the Unix Philosophy of being able to have very task specific tools. Cartography is most certainly a very different task than data analysis and I think that tools like InkScape are a very important part of the toolbox. While I do agree that we need to do a better job integrating better cartographic tools into individual pieces of fosGIS packages, it is equally important to me that we create the linkages to make it easier to use complementary tools like InkScape as well. David ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] help with catalog of OGC services
Exactly as you describe, I'm going to give GeoNetwork a try for this. I'm sure I'll be over on the GN list once I get going. I'm actually running an old version of GN for another application that hasn't needed CSW or interaction with W*S services. Thanks. - John *** John Callahan, Research Scientist Delaware Geological Survey, University of Delaware URL: http://www.dgs.udel.edu * On Mon, Oct 3, 2011 at 1:53 PM, heikki tropic...@gmail.com wrote: dear John, GeoNetwork can do exactly that : it can generate metadata about a W*S service and its layers. Just configure it with the correct URL etc. to harvest and your metadata gets generated, with thumbnail previews if you like. Anything against using GeoNetwork for this ? You can just use it to create your metadata in this way and have it served as a CSW server. Nobody requires you to use the metadata editor, etc -- those parts will just sit there and when left alone have no impact on how heavy the application runs. Maybe you should cross-post to the GeoNetwork list if you have more questions about this ? Kind regards Heikki Doeleman On Mon, Oct 3, 2011 at 7:33 PM, John Callahan john.calla...@udel.eduwrote: Thanks Bob. I do know of GeoMoose and like what it can do. However, in this case I'm not looking for a map-based interface but rather a catalog of my existing services. Something that can read the GetCap information for each service and make that available to a CSW client and/or through a web interface listing. - John *** John Callahan, Research Scientist Delaware Geological Survey, University of Delaware URL: http://www.dgs.udel.edu * On Mon, Oct 3, 2011 at 10:46 AM, Bob Basques bob.basq...@ci.stpaul.mn.us wrote: John, GeoMoose operates against data sources similarly to your descriptions. Each data source has it's own MapFile control for the MapServer engine, and you can also let GeoMoose access the WMS services directly if you wish. This makes the addition of new layers very easy in the configuration of the GeoMoose catalog (MAPBOOK) bobb John Callahan john.calla...@udel.edu wrote: I have about 15 or so OGC services running with MapServer, mostly WMS but a few WFS and hopefully some WCS in the future. I'd like to have an easy way for users to browse through my services. Of course, I can manually create a web page listing my services but there should be something better. A CSW catalog would be nice as traditional desktop GIS users can easily browse/search and add my services directly to their GIS. It'd also be great if my services could be harvested by other catalogs. Does anyone know of a way to run a CSW-compliant app by simply adding existing etCapability URLs? I know about GeoNetwork but it doesn't seem like I need the full GUI or multi-user editor as it's only me (plus I'd rather not have to manually create/maintain records for each service as I think I'd have to with GN.) Does anyone know if MapServer can perform like a CSW, perhaps by pointing to local map files? In the end, I'm looking for a way to easily maintain a catalog of OGC services through integrating existing services as much as possible. Thanks for any guidance. - John *** John Callahan, Research Scientist Delaware Geological Survey, University of Delaware URL: http://www.dgs.udel.edu * ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
[OSGeo-Discuss] help with catalog of OGC services
I have about 15 or so OGC services running with MapServer, mostly WMS but a few WFS and hopefully some WCS in the future. I'd like to have an easy way for users to browse through my services. Of course, I can manually create a web page listing my services but there should be something better. A CSW catalog would be nice as traditional desktop GIS users can easily browse/search and add my services directly to their GIS. It'd also be great if my services could be harvested by other catalogs. Does anyone know of a way to run a CSW-compliant app by simply adding existing etCapability URLs? I know about GeoNetwork but it doesn't seem like I need the full GUI or multi-user editor as it's only me (plus I'd rather not have to manually create/maintain records for each service as I think I'd have to with GN.) Does anyone know if MapServer can perform like a CSW, perhaps by pointing to local map files? In the end, I'm looking for a way to easily maintain a catalog of OGC services through integrating existing services as much as possible. Thanks for any guidance. - John *** John Callahan, Research Scientist Delaware Geological Survey, University of Delaware URL: http://www.dgs.udel.edu * ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
[OSGeo-Discuss] format for raster data distribution, JP2?
I'm looking for advice on sharing raster data for download. We distribute several raster datasets such as DEMs and orthophotography. Sometimes these are divided into rectangular tiles, sometimes by geography/boundaries. Most of our audience has some level of GIS or CAD experience. We also have WMS services but there are many times where people need the actual data files. I had been creating JP2 files using JP2ECW compression. Great file size reduction with very good quality. However, I'm thinking it may be difficult for people to view these (and more difficult for me to create) due to the restrictions on the codec distribution. The other JP2 options, OpenJPEG and libjasper, seems like they also require users to obtain this codec/driver and install into the software first. Same for the commercial Kakadu and MrSID. netCDF is great but not widely supported; IMG are good but not any advantage over TIFs (except for 4 GB file sizes) Since I want to serve the widest possible audience (and not cater only to our Windows/ArcGIS audience), I'm down to serving TIFs with JPEG compression at around quality=75, which is what I started with years ago! Good quality, decent compression, wide support. Is this the best bet? Is there something else out there I'm overlooking? - John *** John Callahan, Research Scientist Delaware Geological Survey University of Delaware URL: http://www.dgs.udel.edu *** ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] is TileCache alive ?
I was also just looking into tile caching options and had exactly the same question. It looks like the latest version (2.10) was released back in Jan 2009, and the readme is dated Dec 2007. It would also need to update the use of mod_python, which I read development had stopped a while ago. I know of GeoWebCache, which can also work directly with WMS. And packages like Mapnik and GDAL2Tiles/MapTiler can preprocess your data into tiles. Great for overlays. Are there other tiling mechanisms to consider? - John On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 4:51 AM, Bart van den Eijnden bart...@osgis.nlwrote: Sure, it has moved to OsGeo infrastructure. *http://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/tilecache/* * * *Best regards,* *Bart* * * -- Looking for flexible support on OpenLayers or GeoExt? Please check out http://www.osgis.nl/support.html Bart van den Eijnden OSGIS bart...@osgis.nl On Sep 1, 2010, at 10:45 AM, Sebastian E. Ovide wrote: Hi Guys, from http://openlayers.org/pipermail/tilecache/ it is possible to see mails up to April. Is TileCache project alive ? thanks -- Sebastian E. Ovide ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] RE: New and Noteworthy in OS Geospatial?
You may be familiar with the United States Geological Survey (USGS) National Geologic Map Database (NGMDB) map portal. I believe it was released last fall (2009) and uses OpenLayers, kamap, WMS services. etc... (not sure of the mapping engine.) It's a very dynamic system. http://maps.ngmdb.us/dataviewer/ Here is some text from en email I received at the time it was released: ** The development of a Web-mapping system to deliver compelling and useful images of geologic maps, and the data behind them, is a difficult task, as you well know. I'm pleased to notify you that the NGMDB Data Portal, collaboratively developed by AASG and USGS, is (finally) publicly available. In the long-term, this Portal is intended to give users a quick, integrated, browse-and-query glimpse of map data published by many agencies, and to direct them to the source information. Like the NGMDB Map Catalog, it's another way for people to find your maps. It helps people find publications, but in a more visual way, and gives them an overview of a region's geology Portal features include: - National-scale bedrock and surficial maps, and four state-scale maps, - a Dynamic Legend that shows only the map units within the field of view, - a new Geologic Materials classification, designed to help the layman by bringing these maps into a unified view, using simple terms and definitions, - a simplified back-end database whose design and science terminologies are related to the new NCGMP09 design, - integration with other NGMDB databases (Map Catalog and Geolex) that provides users with information about the geologic units and source maps, and - links to the source maps and related Web-mapping systems, in the state geological surveys. *** A similar international effort is ONE Geology. I believe its map portal is OpenLayers, the metadata catalog is GeoNetwork, etc... http://www.onegeology.org/ http://portal.onegeology.org/ Hope this helps. - John ** John Callahan, Geographic Information Scientist Delaware Geological Survey, University of Delaware URL: http://www.dgs.udel.edu ** On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 5:08 PM, Fawcett, David (MPCA) david.fawc...@state.mn.us wrote: Thanks to the few of you who had comments. Really, none of the rest of you want to brag about or promote your OSGEO project?! Come on, any new features, optimizations, data formats, case studies, etc.? David. -Original Message- From: Fawcett, David (MPCA) Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 9:54 AM To: OSGeo Discussions Subject: New and Noteworthy in OS Geospatial? I am working on a presentation focused on, What's New and Cool in OpenSource Geospatial for a group of GIS professionals. This group is most familiar with the proprietary ESRI stack, but there is a growing awareness and interest in OpenSource. My goal is to introduce people to cool projects or features, highlighting events and improvements from the past year. I am thinking of categories including software, databases, community, and open data. I would greatly appreciate any ideas that people have on new or noteworthy developments in OpenSource geospatial. Think about new projects, new features, optimizations, events, use cases, etc. Please feel free to email me off-list or just respond to this message. Thank you very much, David Fawcett ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Open Source vs Closed source
Paul Ramsey's keynote at FOSS4G 2009 immediately comes to mind. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB_a28vBtBkfeature=related - John ** John Callahan, Geographic Information Scientist Delaware Geological Survey, University of Delaware URL: http://www.dgs.udel.edu ** On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 10:28 AM, Bob Basques bob.basq...@ci.stpaul.mn.uswrote: All, We've got a discussion going on in the office about the subject line. I was wondering if folks here had any pointers to online information, both from a superficial view (low detail level, IE Manager speak) as well as some somewhat higher level information about costs, in the short term/ long term, etc. Thanks bobb ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] web mapping package
Thanks Bob. Yes, GeoMoose does seem impressive for what it can do out of the box. I noticed there is a GeoMoose mailing list and will likely signup for that. Quick question though: can the GeoMoose interface directly display png tiles (e.g., output from gdal2tiles/maptiler) or do rasters need to go through mapserver first? (I have some imagery and openstreetmap data I think would be best served through TMS tiles rather than mapserver raster data sources.) - John On Mon, Dec 28, 2009 at 5:49 PM, Bob Basques bob.basq...@ci.stpaul.mn.uswrote: John, First off, I'm close to the GeoMoose project, now having said that. . . GeoMoose will implement way faster out of the box. Usually, the biggest hurdle, is if you need to change the projection of the data you are displaying. If all your data is in the same projection, it's not a problem at all, pretty much can be a plug and play with the datasets using the samples that come with the GeoMoose package. If you need to pull data from other projections and overlay them onto your datasets then things get decidedly trickier (in any application for that matter), although once you have one layer working , it's usually not too big a deal to get others working in GeoMoose too. Don't take my word for it though. I'm sure others will pop on here and reply too, although, you might want to try the Mapserver list with the question as well, there might be some other viewers out there as well that might fit the bill. bobb John Callahan john.calla...@udel.edu wrote: I'm looking for a web mapping package that can be used to show 15 - 20 datasets at once. These data just need to be turned on/off and maybe an identify/query feature. Data are points, lines, polygons, and rasters (aerial imagery, DEMs, etc...) Basically, I'm looking for a way to show these datasets to a few dozen colleagues located in various depts. So far, MapGuide OS and GeoMoose seem to be the two best options. I have used Mapserver and Postgis before and could use these again. Vectors are mostly shapefiles and rasters are img or ESRI grids (I could convert to png tiles using GDAL or something similar.) Any thoughts on the ease of setup/config of GeoMoose vs MapGuide OS? Any other obvious packages I'm missing? (I know about ka-map but don't think it's being developed, and may not add anything over GeoMoose/MapGuide.) In the past, I've used ArcIMS and ArcGIS Server for such a purpose. However, I'm looking for an open source solution. If all goes well, we may develop a more sophisticated application in the future but for right now, viewing the data is most important. Thanks for your help. - John ** John Callahan, Geospatial Application Developer Delaware Geological Survey, University of Delaware URL: http://www.dgs.udel.edu ** ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss -- ** John Callahan, Geospatial Application Developer Delaware Geological Survey, University of Delaware URL: http://www.dgs.udel.edu ** ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] web mapping package
Thanks percy. No, I hadn't thought of that. OpenLayers always gives me the impression of one layer at a time, and doesn't usually include a layer list that you can check on/off. However, I'm sure with some thinking on WMS services with transparent backgrounds vs TMS layer backgrounds, I might be able to come up with something. I'll look through the examples at http://openlayers.org/dev/examples/. Thanks for the idea. - John On Mon, Dec 28, 2009 at 7:16 PM, percy per...@pdx.edu wrote: John, have you thought about just using OpenLayers with Mapserver, just modify one of the existing examples to point to your mapserver cgi and you should be up and running in less than an hour or so... It also integrates well with TMS for raster, and WMS for other... Cheers, Percy Message: 4 Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2009 19:09:55 -0500 From: John Callahan john.calla...@udel.edu Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] web mapping package To: OSGeo Discussions discuss@lists.osgeo.org Message-ID: eb6cf4ca0912281609x19eb182dtfadc18bb46d67...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Thanks Bob. Yes, GeoMoose does seem impressive for what it can do out of the box. I noticed there is a GeoMoose mailing list and will likely signup for that. Quick question though: can the GeoMoose interface directly display png tiles (e.g., output from gdal2tiles/maptiler) or do rasters need to go through mapserver first? (I have some imagery and openstreetmap data I think would be best served through TMS tiles rather than mapserver raster data sources.) - John -- David Percy Geospatial Data Manager Geology Department Portland State University http://gisgeek.pdx.edu 503-725-3373 ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Desktop metadata management for FOSS4G
Yes. For us, this would help our work flow. A plugin for Quantum would work great. (I also just read Alex's email about qgismetaedit. Cool!) It would be great for a desktop GIS to update some basic metadata elements, like updated date, coordinate system, bounding box in projected and geo coordinates, and maybe a couple of others. Personally, I don't care about things like listing all columns/data types of a vector attribute table, or listing processing steps, or embedding an thumbnail image. Sometimes they're nice but often just bloat. Currently, we use GeoNetwork to manually edit metadata in our public repository and then save it locally as an XML file to include some with direct downloads. If we could reverse the process (create locally on desktop and save as XML, TXT, etc.., then push up to GeoNetwork), and at the same time have some basic fields updated automatically, that would help. - John ** John Callahan Geospatial Application Developer Delaware Geological Survey, University of Delaware 227 Academy St, Newark DE 19716-7501 Tel: (302) 831-3584 Email: john.calla...@udel.edu http://www.dgs.udel.edu ** Sampson, David wrote: Ahh.. Metadata I am learning about Qgis plugins lately and thought I would extend out to the OSGEO community at large. As I am going through creating some plugins and learning about OWS services and trying my hand at a catalogue plugin for QGIS I got to thinking, what does the open source world do for managing their metadata on their desktop? I know and quite like projects like geo-network and our own flavour at _http://geodiscover.cgdi.ca/_ but I am curious as to what people use for their desktop. Back when FGDC was the spec of choice I used MP (metadata Parser) quite extensively _http://geology.usgs.gov/tools/metadata/tools/doc/mp.html_ but with the new world of ISO and the upcoming NAP (North American Profile) I wonder what people are doing now. Would a lean desktop editor help people in their workflow. Essentialy maintaining their metadata on the desktop then exporting (through valid XML) to publishing facilities such as geonetwork.. The idea is to couple data and metadata while people are working with the data. Are people working on this? Do open source solutions already exist? Would a plugin for QGIS be useful? Or a desktop app that can hit many softwares like GRASS, QGIS and others? Thoughts? Cheers ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Comparision between MapServer/OpenLayers and ESRI ArcIMS
To follow up re: status of ArcIMS I just checked the ESRI site, clicked on Products, Server GIS and ArcIMS is nowhere to be found. As well, if you select Training and search for courses, you will find exactly zero instructor-led courses for ArcIMS. (ArcIMS is also listed under Other Products in the Training section.)So, as far as I'm concerned, ArcIMS is dead and everything goes through ArcGIS Server with ESRI. - John Bill Thoen wrote: Thanks for the help folks, especially to John Callahan. That was the best description of the problem with the ESRI solution that I've seen to date. What they offer may be good or not --I don't have the experience to argue that point-- but they are even more expensive that I had imagined. I'm very impressed with ESRI's marketing -- if they can sell this, they could sell snow to Santa Claus! Regards, - Bill Thoen ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Comparision between MapServer/OpenLayers and ESRI ArcIMS
I've dealt with this question before but not quite with those specifics. Actually, I've had these issues from a different angle: people who already have the ESRI suite because their larger company or government agency purchased an ESRI enterprise license yet they were looking at open source as a serious option. Hopefully some of this can help... My first thought is that a current ESRI solution would be based on ArcGIS Server rather than ArcIMS. ArcIMS is basically gone (the 2008 Dev Summit had ZERO tech sessions on ArcIMS but did have a few migration to ArcGIS server topics. On the current ESRI support site for ArcIMS life cycle, they do NOT mention a 9.4 release (current is 9.3.1) although they do for ArcGIS Desktop and ArcGIS Server. The ArcIMS Data Delivery Extension is not being sold any more. ArcIMS could do basic clip-n-ship using the Extract Server but that is only available using the old AXL image services and NOT the ArcMap services.I've heard trusted rumors (from some ESRI staff at tech shows and conferences) that ArcGIS Server is where ESRI has been putting all their energy for the past few years. ArcGIS Server (AGS) costs quite a bit, up to 4 cores it's about $32K - $40K per server for the advanced, enterprise level.This Advanced version includes the 3D, Spatial, Network and Geostatistical extenions. It does not include the Data Interoperability extension (based on FME Safe and typically used for data ETL tasks) or the Image Server extension (used for real-time display of rasters in various bands and combinations, like NDVI) Extensions are about 4K - 8K each. The Enterprise licenses mean it includes more features plus ArcSDE for major RDBMS like Oracle SQL Server. The Workgroup version includes a limited ArcSDE for Workgroups. Enterprise ArcSDE (and therefore Enterprise ArcGIS Server) is almost *required* for anything data delivery system greater than a few GB and especially if web based. For more pricing, here are a few I found... https://www.gsaadvantage.gov/ (search for arcgis server) http://www.eyaktek.com/public/ESRI%20Catalog%2006-20-08.xls http://www.esri.com/partners/hardware/ibm-advanced-enterprise.pdf For data processing and delivery, like LIDAR processing and anything that would result from a model, is typically done either 1) via Model Builder, python scripts in the ArcMap MXD document (typically unstable), or 2) via ArcObjects coding through the NET or Java APIs (the Interface OO programming is difficult to learn). Recently, quite a lot is done through ArcGIS Desktop (ArcMap.) ArcCatalog is used to fully manage AGS. There is a web application for managing AGS but it can't do everything that ArcCatalog can do, critical things like map caching. (at least that was the case in 9.2.) So, yes, you'll need quite a few ArcGIS Desktops. You'll need ArcEditor (~$5K) versions for writing to ArcSDE. You'll need ArcInfo level (~$14K) for creating the models to be processed in AGS. This does not include desktop extensions which run about $2.5K each. Plus, many advanced feature of AGS (that you see in demos or brochures) are only accessible via thick AGS clients like ArcGIS DEsktop or ArcGIS Explorer. Remember the initial primary purpose for AGS was was a desktop GIS server, like a replacement for the old ArcInfo 7x geoprocessing server. It was to push centralized GIS processing, editing, mobile checkin/checkout, geocoding, etc... Traditional web applications (replacement for ArcIMS) came later. - John ** John Callahan Geospatial Application Developer Delaware Geological Survey, University of Delaware 227 Academy St, Newark DE 19716-7501 Tel: (302) 831-3584 Email: john.calla...@udel.edu http://www.dgs.udel.edu ** Bill Thoen wrote: I need to make a case for developing a map and data server using Open Source software such as MapServer, Open Layers, PostgereSQL/PostGIS to counter a proposal to go with ESRI's solutions. The client who this would be directed to manages a lot of land parcels on which some development is planned. As part of the support for this, the object is to build an Internet-accessible server that maintains about 800Gb of spatial and tabular data, that can provide interactive maps of the properties, data downloads of selected areas and layers in shapefile, AutoCAD and other formats. It also needs to generate 3D surfaces from dense LiDAR data that's available. It also needs a database cataloging system that can be searched for data held in the system. Finally, it needs to provide different access privileges to various personnel who will be using restricted data sets. So what I need are some *current* facts about what packages are needed to do this completely with ESRI software and what it will cost. Have any of you had to address this 800-lb gorilla problem
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Comparision between MapServer/OpenLayers and ESRI ArcIMS
A few more thoughts after reading your email again... I don't think an ESRI solution can do much of what you mention out of the box aside from creating basic ArcMap MXDs and ArcScene SXDs (used with 3D Analyst) that utilize database connections to ArcSDE. These only work in a LAN with access to a database and not web enabled. Any AGS or modeling application would need to be developed. AGS and desktop development is tough for people to learn unless they are already proficient in NET or Java. MapServer (and other FOSS apps) can utilize languages like PHP, Python, etc.., that are easier to get up to speed with, IMO. I've always pushed the benefits of modular design when looking at solutions against the ESRI suite. Arc* is notorious for incompatibilities among versions; this includes proprietary data formats (GDB), projects files (MXDs) and of course software. Development is only done via ESRI for their own reasons and all packages go together. As we all know, modular allows different components to be developed independently. That means pieces can be enhanced, debugged, patched, and replaced without affecting the whole. As new technologies come out, they can easily be put into the workflow. The architecture can include numerous platforms, languages, and packages, depending on whatever the user/developer experience is. This argument has gone far with a few people I've talked with. I don't know of any database cataloging system for ESRI. ArcSDE can store spatial metadata for each dataset but that's not a catalog. GIS Portal Toolkit is a metadata catalog but it's not automated in any way, and I've never had luck using it. GPT has been based on ArcIMS but now I hear it's moving to AGS. So, that's something to investigate. For open source, I would look into deegree (http://www.deegree.org/) for many of the OGC services, WMS, WFS-T. WCS, etc... It does a great job as a catalog and map/data server. It also shouldn't be too hard to develop a python script using SQL (for database connections) and gdal/ogr (for flat files) to browse through your collections and create entries in deegree. I haven't done it but I recall some past thread on the python scripting part. Training is expensive for any ArcGIS product. ESRI charges about $490 per day for instructor led training. And you would need training on AGS and ArcSDE (intro and advanced for both) and several on ArcGIS Desktop use, depending on user experience. ESRI does have some online training which are good (and cheap) for entry level to GIS. Their development courses are also only for intro to development. Although ESRI does have plenty of training opportunities, even if expensive, at least they exist. AGS, ArcIMS, ArcSDE, use Windows services or *nix deamons. I've always had these systems crash for one reason or another. ArcIMS crashed often when people published incorrect metadata (through ArcCatalog) to it's metadata services. In any event, there always needed to be an ESRI expert around when the system crashed. Even a simple app had too many GIS-related parts. We could not just leave it to the sys admins once the GIS app got going. MapServer has been easier on the sys admins as it's cgi based. And, the map files are simple text files that anyone can read. The only user access system I know if withing ESRI is through ArcSDE. That is just a pass through to the database. All accounts/roles and permissions are setup in the database. The desktop applications do respect user credentials when connecting to ArcSDE, whether it's for desktop viewing or creating a web map service that will be published through AGS. I don't know if AGS has it's own security system other than the admin login for management. Well, I hope some of this helps... - John ** John Callahan Geospatial Application Developer Delaware Geological Survey, University of Delaware 227 Academy St, Newark DE 19716-7501 Tel: (302) 831-3584 Email: john.calla...@udel.edu http://www.dgs.udel.edu ** Bill Thoen wrote: I need to make a case for developing a map and data server using Open Source software such as MapServer, Open Layers, PostgereSQL/PostGIS to counter a proposal to go with ESRI's solutions. The client who this would be directed to manages a lot of land parcels on which some development is planned. As part of the support for this, the object is to build an Internet-accessible server that maintains about 800Gb of spatial and tabular data, that can provide interactive maps of the properties, data downloads of selected areas and layers in shapefile, AutoCAD and other formats. It also needs to generate 3D surfaces from dense LiDAR data that's available. It also needs a database cataloging system that can be searched for data held in the system. Finally, it needs to provide different
[OSGeo-Discuss] ideas for the U.S. National Dialogue - the Recovery Dialogue on IT Solutions
This is about the Recovery.gov site and receiving ideas about IT solutions to make it better to everyone. Several involve GIS and geospatial topics.I thought someone here could make a good argument about GeoRSS or other OSGeo ideas. It's good to see the Recovery.org site itself runs on open source products Apache, Drupal and SIMILE Timeline. I just heard about this today and the deadline for ideas (and possibly the commenting on ideas) ends tomorrow, Sunday night. Who knows what types of things they'll be able to implement within their time frame (I read somewhere Sept 2009) but it's a cool idea nevertheless. To register (for proposing ideas) you will need to include a U.S. zip code. http://www.thenationaldialogue.org/ - John ** John Callahan Geospatial Application Developer Delaware Geological Survey, University of Delaware 227 Academy St, Newark DE 19716-7501 Tel: (302) 831-3584 Email: john.calla...@udel.edu http://www.dgs.udel.edu ** ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Can I do the same GIS tasks with OS (as with ESRI)?
I've been an ESRI user (AV 3.x, ArcGIS 8/9, ArcIMS, ArcGIS Server, ArcSDE) for 12+ years and have recently started exploring FOSS software. And I haven't disagreed with any of the responses so far. You will definitely need multiple programs to do what a single ESRI program can do. IMO, this is a good thing. One of the main reasons for my migration is I'm tired of running large, complicated, expensive software and all the extra baggage that comes with it to use only 10% of what the software can do. (see ArcGIS Server.) You can do all the analysis and more of ArcGIS Desktop and extensions using GRASS, QGIS, SAGA, GeoTools, GDAL/OGR, PROJ4, or R Statistics along with a programming language like Python, Java or others. (IMO, this is a better solution than ESRI.)You can do just about anything you want on the web server end with MapServer, GeoServer, FeatureServer (and maybe TileCache or GeoNetwork for metadata) with any of a dozen or more clients (OpenLayers, ka-Map, MapGuide etc...). And you can do a lot of database work with Postgres/PostGIS, a much simpler, less costly solution than ArcSDE+RDBMS. And I wouldn't count out the role of free, non-open source packages like Google products and Oracle Express (11g should have Spatial included.) From my experience (limited in the FOSS world), I have found three basic hurdles: 1) Cartography. Whether on the screen, PDF outputs, or print publications, ArcMap is easy and looks great. (Although R Statistics produces better looking charts and graphs than ArcGIS.) 2) Versioned editing. This is important for groups with multiple concurrent editors or that has a particular hierarchical workflow with their GIS data. 3) Storage and serving of very large (50+ GB) raster datasets. PostGIS does not support rasters yet; Oracle Spatial does though. I'm still not sure if storing rasters in a database is a good idea but ArcSDE sure makes it easy, and with good performance when used in conjunction with other ESRI products. In the end, we have decided to move all of our web work to open source. For spatial analysis, we'll also move to open source. For Desktop, we'll have a mix of ArcGIS Desktop as well as QGIS, GRASS and maybe SAGA and/or OSSIM. For storage, we'll be maybe 505/50 with PostGIS+file-based rasters and ArcSDE/Oracle.Hope this helps. This sure is a fun and exciting time! - John Jennifer Horsman wrote: The thread that was started today with the subject Your open source career got me thinking about asking a question that has been rolling around in my head. This is pointed at those people who have experience with ESRI products as well as OS GIS products. I have been a long-time user of ESRI products, but I want to start my own contract business and will not be able to afford the license for ArcGIS/ArcInfo. So I recently set up a Linux box with GRASS installed, but it has been over 10 years since I have used GRASS (it has probably changed since then too!) Does GRASS have the same analysis and display capabilities as ArcGIS? I know this is a very general question, so perhaps another question would be where does GRASS fall short and where does it excel in comparison to the ESRI products? Thanks, Jennifer ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Can I do the same GIS tasks with OS (as with ESRI)?
A few things... - As you alluded to, it's very easy to create a seamless mosaic, or a raster catalog. And pyramids (overviews) and statistics are created automatically, if you like. The same loading process works if you have a one IMG file at 2 GB, or 100 JPEGs at 100 MB each, or 2000 TIFs at 200 MB each. (size limitations based upon your backend database.) - The loading process is simply using ArcCatalog and easy built in tools. Or using a command line function (sderaster -o mosaic) wrapped in a script. Or, any ArcObjects code you write (if you can figure that out!)For one file, you simply right-click and say Load into ArcSDE. - It's also nice to use the same storage mechanism for both vectors and rasters, for shared daily GIS use within my group, and for production web apps. And performance is very good in an all-ESRI solution (I haven't tried with non-ESRI clients) Problems come in because ArcGIS Desktop crashes quite often when dealing with large datasets. It's slow and unreliable. Did you ever try to load a bunch of rasters just to have it crash 3 days later? The statements I mentioned above work very well for small datasets and touch-and-go with larger data. The ArcSDE and RDBMS work great, it's the clients that break down and are slow. I also don't want to deal with the headaches of managing Oracle (it's a beast!) and, obviously, I don't want to deal with the extremely high costs of an Oracle/ESRI solution. I also want to share applications, share code, run the same products at home or at work, and run on multiple platforms. FOSS geo software fall more in line with my philosophical beliefs. I work at a university and it costs me very little for Oracle and ESRI products (for university related projects), and I still want to implement open source! - John Paul Ramsey wrote: 3) Storage and serving of very large (50+ GB) raster datasets. PostGIS does not support rasters yet; Oracle Spatial does though. I'm still not sure if storing rasters in a database is a good idea but ArcSDE sure makes it easy, and with good performance when used in conjunction with other ESRI products. John, What is it about ArcSDE and raster that makes it easy? I have no experience with it, but there must be something about the process that seems easier to you than other options do. Is it just the clarity of the process? (you do a, b, c, and d, and then voila, it's all a seamless mosaic?) Or is there something else? P ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
