[OSGeo-Discuss] Fundamental need: simple answers to the simple question "where?"

[Munich Orientation Convention]

 

Dear all,

 

the degeneration goes on: despite of the existence of open location codes
[1] , the Mongolpost, La Poste [2] , Philippine Red Cross [3]  etc. are
adopting a proprietary system based on names (!!??).

 

This seems to confirm the following statements:

1 - there is a huge but neglected demand for non-academic answers to the
simple question "where?" 

2 - the emperor is naked, all existing standards are most inadequate: 

Squared / non-metrical / 360 basic directions / no self-guiding / pointing
only / no or almost no benefit on signage and maps 

3 - there are applications where the merit principle has - or should have -
much more priority than the mere characteristic "not the best but open", for
example: 

 - logistic, 

- safety, including evacuations, 

- education / GeoAwareness, 

- care for the blind (India?) and other minorities 

 

The threat now is: we possibly will have to change the geographical
information on our business cards, for example from 

KT3 6BD (UK)to  coffee.slavery.meeting  or
евертитур . Делецтус . Виртуте  

and again nobody will ask what's our preference. 

 

I'm proposing a standard not only for location codes which even children can
understand but for all orientation tools including mental ones, house number
signs and self-guiding. If it would be entirely "open", this automatically
would generate hundreds of "better" standards, destroying the main goal. 

 

The system has elements like the division of the horizon into 12 directions
which obviously are free and open. For the proprietary elements, I'm
proposing the proven but forgotten licensing by symbolical fees. With this,
it is also possible to remunerate secondary inventions, a proven but
forgotten method to animate people to be creative. 

 

I'm still the opinion that OSGeo would be an adequate para-authority for
this standard proposal. I was invited to post this here many months ago but
the black-or-white question impeded any discussions and even the
dissemination of the free elements. A geography teacher in Brazil got her
diploma with a final study about imaginary clocks for children [4]. The
practical part was the finding of hidden chocolate eggs. Would this work
with 3 names?

 

My hope is that the 3 names tragic will now open eyes and minds. I'd
appreciate a discussion where the depth of openness will be discussed after
there is a common sense about the 25 (!) benefits of imaginary clocks. The
fundamental piece is the tool r100 [5], already defined for about 700 main
cities, mountains (Everest) etc. Remark: the core of r100 is not software
but open knowledge. 

 

Let's make symbolical fees be great again? 

Or are there other suggestions in favor of the consumer?

 

Henrique

 

[1]   www.openlocationcode.com and
 www.mapcode.com 

[2]  
http://what3words.com/2016/12/la-poste/

[3]  
http://what3words.com/2016/12/red-cross-philippines/ 

[4] http://geografiadainfancia.blogspot.de/ 

[5] r100 www.volksnav.de/r100   

Beijing  GPX http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/VolksNav/traces/2292518  KML
www.volksnav.de/Beijing/Beijing_r100.kml 

Degeneration    www.volksnav.de/evolution 

 

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[OSGeo-Discuss] r100 as State of the Map 2016

[Munich Orientation Convention]

To

- OSGeo board and members / Suchith Anand

- State of the Map Latam 2016, Sao
Paulo

- Foss4g Asia / Geospatial World Forum, Hyderabad

 

 

Copy: Surveyor General of India

 

 

r100 as State of the Map 2016



 

 

Hello Suchith, dear new board, dear all,

 

now I can answer the question about "doubtless open systems". 

 

I grew up in Sao Paulo and there I had a dream: an orientation standard.
Many years after, I've submitted the following open data on occasion of the
SOTM Latam 2016:

http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/VolksNav/traces/221

http://umap.openstreetmap.fr/de/map/r100saopaulo_107022#11/-23.5435/-46.6037

 

This could be the trace of a drone flight, exactly 10 km around the urban
pole. Such coordinates are more or less easy to reproduce, so nobody would
come to the idea to claim intellectual property for such a virtual flight.
This standard circle would be helpful mainly for those who can't read maps
but can read a clock, see www.volksnav.de/r100SaoPaulo. Imaginary tools
aren't patentable, so let's declare  circles + imaginary clocks + knowledge
as doubtless free and open and as Open Knowledge.

 

At the other side, I expect EUR 1,- for the rights to use each the
intellectual upgrades of the logo www.volksnav.de/SofMSPlogo and the venue
map www.volksnav.de/StateOfTheMapSP. Remark: no information got lost.  

 

I'll liberate the next months the same for about one thousand relevant
"clocks" including Umbilicus Urbis, Himalaya, Twin Cities, Niagara Falls,
south pole www.volksnav.de/Antarctica/Antarktica.kml etc. 

 

For Hyderabad events, this would look like this:

 

Trace

http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/VolksNav/traces/2289289

Umap  http://umap.openstreetmap.fr/de/map/hyderabad_r100_107313

knowledge  www.volksnav.de/r100Hyderabad

Logo upgrades 
www.volksnav.de/Foss4gAsiaLogo
 www.volksnav.de/GeospatialLogo

Venue map, building numbers, room numbers
www.volksnav.de/IIIThyderabad
www.volksnav.de/GeospatialHyderabad 

Compare both urban codes and discover the distance between both events: 40
minutes = 4 km.  Compare this with Corbusier's doubtless open but limited
system in Chandigarh. The Open Hand could be the urban pole there
www.volksnav.de/Chandigarh 

 

I'd be more than glad if the new board of OSGeo etc. would support this
evolution www.volksnav.de/evolution. I'm thinking about a layer where OSGeo
etc. would let the consumers decide if they use such tools or not. I'm
absolutely sure, many secondary ideas or even killer applications will
arise.  

 

Thank you in advance

 

Henrique

 

 

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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Geo4All - Empowering academics and educators globally - requesting colleagues to share Geo4All ideas at Geography Awareness Week

[Munich Orientation Convention]

 

 

Hi Suchid, 

 

thank you for your first support, Also OGC, ICA etc. have difficulties to
understand the magnitude of my invention: it's a simple idea but it opened
more than 25 different applications, most of them have nothing to do with
maps or software. The reason of this abundance is simple: the actual system
has fundamental weak points www.volksnav.de/fundamental, that means, the
emperor is naked. I'm sure, the number of applications will increase when
students all over the world - other than today - will be motivated to be
creative.  

 

The poster www.volksnav.de/evolution shows the actual "open" situation: the
geoAwareness for locations, directions, distances and angles degenerated to
left/right commands and left/right confusions. OSGeo could easily be the
link to the new homo sapiens.   

 

According to my experience, in this special case "free and open" will have a
complete other meaning as wanted against vendors: it will be understood that
anyone can anytime define a "better" standard. A cartographer from the
Nederland divides the horizon into 10 directions and call this more
"natural" than mine because "we have 10 fingers". Do you agree with this
argument? Are you the opinion that an orientation standard should be free to
be violated?

 

Let's compare my invention with the UN open GIS logo contest: why would UN
pay for a logo? Why don't UN declare also the winner logo as free and open?
Very simple: 

1 a good and not a cost free logo is the priority

2 money is a proven motivation for creativity

3 intellectual work is respected and honored

4 misuse can be combated . 

 

So I take the liberty to express the actual situation with my own words:

"Education and GeoAwareness are important but if the inventor tries to
impede a chaos, then they aren't important"

"We want to help the visually impaired but if the inventor tries to impede a
chaos then we don't want to help them"  

 

Because of the magnitude of the invention, it's a mission impossible to
define EXACTLY my aims. I've suggested to think about a start with a
standardization of the circle "r100" www.volksnav.de/r100 but your free/open
police department impedes any dialog about benefits for the population. r100
is only 0,005% of the invention, should also be a standard for TACTILE and
imaginary maps www.volksnav.de/iphoneApps and would be my basic proposal for
the Geographic Awareness Week. 

 

Let's propose it together or have I to do it alone?

   

Henrique

 

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[OSGeo-Discuss] Geo4All - Empowering academics and educators globally - requesting colleagues to share Geo4All ideas at Geography Awareness Week

[Munich Orientation Convention]

 

Hi Suchit,

 

nowhere in the world there are so many visually impaired people as in India.


 

For more than 100 years, most of them use imaginary clocks for orientation
purposes and with this get GeoAwareness for directions and angles. Counting
steps, they get additional GeoAwareness for locations and distances, having
an alternative to lat/lon. The same tools use boy scouts, soldiers, pilots,
children, people who can't read maps, illiterate etc.  

 

The mentioned tools are doubtless free, open and libre, so why do OSGeo,
Geo4all etc. insist on ignoring them? 

Because it's not software? 

Because digital clocks are trendy?

Because God dictated that the horizon has to be divided into 8 (see UN logo)
or 360 directions? 

Because a convention for such imaginary tools could favor the merit
principle?

 

The topic is Geo Awareness Week, that means, education for young consumers.
Would you really recommend "here" www.volksnav.de/YouAreHere, Open Location
Code www.openlocationcode.com and others just because they are free and
open? Do they improve awareness for 1) locations, 2) directions, 3)
distances and 4) angles? What about quality and excellence?

 

Now that you're spiritually recharged, I'm sure that we could find an open
minded win/win/win level and show that OSGeo/Geo4all  aren't closed user
groups but open user groups which e. g. also consider visually impaired
people. 

 

I affirm that the actual black/white criteria concerning openness can cause
the following collateral damages: 

- generate many win/lose products.   After 5 years, Munich thinks about
abandoning the expensive Linux/Limux. 

- demotivate to be creative A lose/lose situation. 

 

Henrique   

 

 

   

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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Geo4All - Empowering academics and educators globally - requesting colleagues to share Geo4All ideas at Geography Awareness Week

[Munich Orientation Convention]

 

 

Hi Jonathan,

 

the mentioned definitions concern software. The invention is NOT a software: 
logical location codes consist of hours, minutes and radius. This simple method 
allows to improve geoAwareness concerning the following elements:

 

Locations   answer to the question “where?” instead of “here”, 
what3words, OpenLocationCode etc.

Directions  answers to the question “whereto?” instead of just “there” 

Distances   the radius is the distance to the pole, minutes are the 
distance to the hour (the greater, the later)

Angles   more than 50% of the population don’t know the meaning of 
“90 degrees” but 90% can read a clock 

 

This also allows a self-guiding WITHOUT MAPS like today’s self-guiding with 
house numbers. 

 

Does anybody see any software? The invention concerns IMAGINARY tools using the 
division of the horizon into 12 directions. Of course, these tools can only be 
free, open and libre.

 

Besides: the definition deciders have forgotten that symbolical fees are best 
practice. Even the unleashing of the entire invention could be a possibility, 
but why should I invest time on that if nobody lets me know that she/he cares 
about the benefits for the consumers and students? 

 

In my opinion, the core of OSGeo is neither software nor maps but GeoAwareness. 
I propose to think about a branch called OpenImaginaryMaps (with a logo 
www.volksnav.de/OSGeoNewLogo ?) where OSGeo would - for the first time and 
without any software –have the possibility to contribute with a free and open 
search grid, free and open location codes, free and open forgotten navigation 
methods with compasses etc. etc.

 

The contrary of nonsense is BonnSense. A matter for Bonn? 

 

Henrique

 

 

 

Von: Jonathan Moules [mailto:jonathan-li...@lightpear.com] 
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 17. August 2016 11:42
An: Munich Orientation Convention
Cc: discuss@lists.osgeo.org
Betreff: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Geo4All - Empowering academics and educators 
globally - requesting colleagues to share Geo4All ideas at Geography Awareness 
Week

 

Hi Henrique,
> "Therefore:  OSGeo decisions actually are taken in absence of 
representatives of the inventor and the consumer, consequently can change when 
the wind changes."
   
I'm not sure that's a good take-home from the conversation so far.
The OSGeo appears to already have a pretty clear definition of what it 
considers free and open (from  
<http://www.osgeo.org/content/faq/foundation_faq.html#Open_Source> 
http://www.osgeo.org/content/faq/foundation_faq.html#Open_Source ) :

"Open source software is software where the source code is made available 
under a license that allows the modification, and re-distribution of the 
software at will."
   
So while there are multiple interpretations and variations for "free" and 
"open", as far as I can see, if software isn't distributed under an OSI 
approved license ( <https://opensource.org/licenses> 
https://opensource.org/licenses ), it's not "free and open" for the purposes of 
the current definition as used by the OSGeo.
Whether the OSGeo definition (or by extension the OSI one) is correct is a 
question that's beyond the scope of my reply. :-)

Cheers,
Jonathan



 On Wed, 17 Aug 2016 09:00:38 +0100 Munich Orientation Convention< 
<mailto:volks...@volksnav.de> volks...@volksnav.de> wrote  

 

Hello Brian,

 

thank you for the confirmation that MOC isn’t (and shouldn’t be) free and open. 
Therefore:  OSGeo decisions actually are taken in absence of representatives of 
the inventor and the consumer, consequently can change when the wind changes. 

 

My last approach concerned ideas to the Geo Awareness Week, that means, for 
young consumers. A similar situation: adults decide about writing, publishing 
and buying books for children.

 

In Bonn there will a speech about free, open and libre. This shows that in some 
cases openmania could be the wrong way. 

 

The site “free the post code” www.freeThePostCode.org proves that even 
enigmatic post codes aren’t free, therefore universities etc. promote it (by 
unreflected use?). According to my surveys, nobody knows where is the N/S/E/W 
transition point ( the pole ! ) in London. 

 

I also wrote to the National Geographic and I’m sure that Geo Awareness and 
open mind will overcome. 

One possibility could be to amputate the invention to a free and open torso for 
those who insist on saving EUR 1,- . Would this be of interest for OSGeo?

 

Henrique

 

 

 

Von: Discuss [mailto:discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org] Im Auftrag von Brian M 
Hamlin
Gesendet: Dienstag, 16. August 2016 21:29
An: discuss@lists.osgeo.org; standa...@lists.osgeo.org
Betreff: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Geo4All - Empowering academics and educators 
globally - requesting colleagues to share Geo4All ideas at Geography Awareness 
Week

 

Dear Colleagues -

 

  I strongl

Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Geo4All - Empowering academics and educators globally - requesting colleagues to share Geo4All ideas at Geography Awareness Week

[Munich Orientation Convention]

 

Hello Brian,

 

thank you for the confirmation that MOC isn’t (and shouldn’t be) free and open. 
Therefore:  OSGeo decisions actually are taken in absence of representatives of 
the inventor and the consumer, consequently can change when the wind changes. 

 

My last approach concerned ideas to the Geo Awareness Week, that means, for 
young consumers. A similar situation: adults decide about writing, publishing 
and buying books for children.

 

In Bonn there will a speech about free, open and libre. This shows that in some 
cases openmania could be the wrong way. 

 

The site “free the post code” www.freeThePostCode.org proves that even 
enigmatic post codes aren’t free, therefore universities etc. promote it (by 
unreflected use?). According to my surveys, nobody knows where is the N/S/E/W 
transition point ( the pole ! ) in London. 

 

I also wrote to the National Geographic and I’m sure that Geo Awareness and 
open mind will overcome. 

One possibility could be to amputate the invention to a free and open torso for 
those who insist on saving EUR 1,- . Would this be of interest for OSGeo?

 

Henrique

 

 

 

Von: Discuss [mailto:discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org] Im Auftrag von Brian M 
Hamlin
Gesendet: Dienstag, 16. August 2016 21:29
An: discuss@lists.osgeo.org; standa...@lists.osgeo.org
Betreff: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Geo4All - Empowering academics and educators 
globally - requesting colleagues to share Geo4All ideas at Geography Awareness 
Week

 

Dear Colleagues -

 

  I strongly object to this statement.. 

" ... t this system can NOT be considered OPEN in the usual definition and is 
therefore not something OSGEO shoudl be involved with... "

 

  There are numerous references to cite here..  details on request

 

 

best regards from Berkeley, California

  --Brian M Hamlin   PSC OSGeo-Live, California Chapter

 

 

##===


Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 08:46:38 +
From: 
To: , ,
, 
Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Geo4All - Empowering academics and
educators globally - requesting colleagues to share Geo4All ideas at
Geography Awareness Week
Message-ID: 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Quote: " The license fee for educational purposes is symbolically EUR 1,- "

This implies there is also a (higher?) non-educational fee, and also means IMHO 
that this system can NOT be considered OPEN in the usual definition and is 
therefore not something OSGEO shoudl be involved with...

Yours,

--
Barend Köbben
Senior Lecturer – ITC-University of Twente
PO Box 217, 7500 AE Enschede (Netherlands)
ITC Building (room 1-065)
@barendkobben
+31-(0)53 4874 253

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[OSGeo-Discuss] Geo4All - Geography Awareness Week

[Munich Orientation Convention]

 

Hi Barend,

 

your point of view doesn’t cover all important aspects, for example the 
motivation to creativity. 

 

The symbolical fee for education means no more than the following: 

- it is a proven method to honor the inventor when the idea generates financial 
benefits.

- the agreement allows a controlled develop. 

 

The actual message to the students is:

 

-  Learn, learn, learn

-  Don’t be creative. Nobody will honor this and you’ll be isolated.

-  Ignore everything which seems not to be free or open, even if the 
idea comes from an inventor and not from a company and even if the idea could 
be helpful for you.

 

As already described, the target is a worldwide identical orientation standard 
for all orientation tools: signage, compasses with 12 directions, mapping, 
location codes, navigation devices, verbal expressions for emergency cases etc. 

 

The Costa Concordia catastrophe happened because of a right/left confusion 
during 8 seconds: the captain gave instructions to the Indonesian steerman in 
Italian language (destra/sinistra). Imaginary clocks are used for more than 100 
years also to avoid right/left and east/west confusions. They are free and open 
but nobody has been motivated to form a Convention. On 9/11, helpers didn’t 
know which one was the tower 1 or 2.  

 

PET bottles and sunshine can transform dirty water to potable water “free and 
open”, but there is no motivation to promote this.

 

If my system would be “open”, this would automatically be an invitation to 
develop “better” standards: other dimensions (Chinese feet etc.), accuracy 
www.volksnav.de/nanometers, shapes (squares instead of circles), identification 
letters (c12 instead of m12 in Chicago), colors etc., destroying the original 
target.

 

I’d be more than glad if the Twente University would have the courage to 
surprise the experts being world’s first one to analyze the benefits of 
imaginary clocks outside of schools www.volksnav.de/UniTwente .   

 

Henrique

 

 

 

 

Von: b.j.kob...@utwente.nl [mailto:b.j.kob...@utwente.nl] 
Gesendet: Dienstag, 16. August 2016 10:47
An: volks...@volksnav.de; suchith.an...@nottingham.ac.uk; 
discuss@lists.osgeo.org; standa...@lists.osgeo.org
Betreff: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Geo4All - Empowering academics and educators 
globally - requesting colleagues to share Geo4All ideas at Geography Awareness 
Week

 

Quote: " The license fee for educational purposes is symbolically EUR 1,- "

 

This implies there is also a (higher?) non-educational fee, and also means IMHO 
that this system can NOT be considered OPEN in the usual definition and is 
therefore not something OSGEO shoudl be involved with...

 

Yours,

 

--

Barend Köbben

Senior Lecturer – ITC-University of Twente

PO Box 217, 7500 AE Enschede (Netherlands)

ITC Building (room 1-065)

@barendkobben

+31-(0)53 4874 253

 

From: Discuss <discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org> on behalf of Munich Orientation 
Convention <volks...@volksnav.de>
Date: Tuesday 16 August 2016 at 09:02
To: 'Suchith Anand' <suchith.an...@nottingham.ac.uk>, "discuss@lists.osgeo.org" 
<discuss@lists.osgeo.org>, "standa...@lists.osgeo.org" 
<standa...@lists.osgeo.org>
Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Geo4All - Empowering academics and educators 
globally - requesting colleagues to share Geo4All ideas at Geography Awareness 
Week

 

The license fee for educational purposes is symbolically EUR 1,- 

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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Geo4All - Empowering academics and educators globally - requesting colleagues to share Geo4All ideas at Geography Awareness Week

[Munich Orientation Convention]

 

 

Hi Suchith,

 

concerning your call for ideas: why only software? 

 

For the first time, a geography teacher in Brazil got last week a diploma
using imaginary clocks as final year project. 

The test school was the Joao XXIII www.volksnav.de/JoaoXXIII and the project
also called the attention to actual week points e. g. division of the
horizon into 360 directions or none, the sunside trap
www.volksnav.de/sunside (test your students ! ) etc. 

Exercises like the finding of Easter eggs, finding rooms with the help of
children-proper and clickable room numbers etc. have been performed. 

Remark: no bits nor bytes have been needed, only synapses. 

 

The license fee for educational purposes is symbolically EUR 1,- and in my
opinion this "iron curtain" isn't hindrance enough to cause an harem guard
or garden dog behavior: ignore the fruits but don't let others take the
benefit.  

 

I herewith offer my invention for use during the Geography Awareness Week to
the named fee. 

 

Henrique

 

 

Von: Discuss [mailto:discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org] Im Auftrag von Suchith
Anand
Gesendet: Montag, 15. August 2016 12:54
An: geofor...@lists.osgeo.org; discuss@lists.osgeo.org
Betreff: [OSGeo-Discuss] Geo4All - Empowering academics and educators
globally - requesting colleagues to share Geo4All ideas at Geography
Awareness Week

 

Dear colleague,

 

20 years back academics and educators (esp. in  developing countries)
struggled to start GIS courses for thier students and had to beg to vendors
for some "free" licences .Now they dont need any "charity" from any vendors,
as they are fully empowered and can start courses as they wish without any
permissions from any vendor owners . We want academics globally to be fully
empowered  from now and   give software as they wish to thier students
education. By  making free and open software and educational resources
available for all has empowered academics and educators globally and brought
down the "Iron Curtains" that  some  vendors have tried to create in
education. Now no vendors  can dictate terms to any academic or educator or
student. We want academics to be in full control of education from now not
any vendors. 

 

I would like to thank the OSGeo Live community for making available Version
10.0 of the OSGeo-Live GIS software collection that has been released, ready
for the FOSS4G conference in Bonn, Germany - the annual global event of the
Open Source Geospatial Foundation (OSGeo). 

OSGeo Live  is an excellent resource for academics and educators around the
world to teach geospatial science and give away the software for free to
thier students thereby empowering them in the true sense. This  excellent
resource is made  available to the global community thanks to the hardwork
and selfless dedication of hundreds of  volunteers (Developers, packagers,
documenters and translators) in addition to thousands who have been involved
in building the packaged software. Thank you all for making this possible.

OSGeo-Live is a self-contained bootable DVD, USB flash drive and Virtual
Machine, pre-installed with robust open source geospatial software, which
can be trialled without installing anything. 


OSGeo Live  includes:

*   Over 50 quality geospatial Open Source applications installed
and pre-configured
*   Free world maps and sample datasets
*   Project Overview and step-by-step Quickstart for each
application
*   Lightning presentation of all applications, along with speaker's
script
*   Translations to multiple languages

 

Details at  http://live.osgeo.org 

 

Download details at  http://live.osgeo.org/en/download.html 

 

Contents overview at https://live.osgeo.org/en/overview/overview.html 

 

I request all colleagues globally to make use of opportunities like
Geography Awareness Week (November 13 - 19, 2016) and other important
Geography events  like OSM Week 2016, GIS Day 2016etc to spread Geo4All
ideas and give away OSGeo Live DVD, USB   to your colleagues and  students
so they dont have to buy any properitery GIS software and truly empowering
them. By doing so, you are  gifting millions of dollars of software to your
students (if i may borrow some ideas from our properitery friends!  :-) So
go ahead and gift software for free from now at all  Geography Awareness
Week and all other key GIS events... We want all academics from now be the
owners of the software and tools . You dont have to get permission from any
properitery GIS vendor owners to start your courses or gift software to your
students!

 

Geo4All is and will be always open to all projects and initiatives that
support Open Principles in Education. We have a duty and long term view on
Open Principles in education to ensure that free and open geospatial
education opportunities  are available not just to current generation but
also to our future generations...


Best wishes,

Suchith

Dr. Suchith Anand

http://www.geoforall.org/ 


Geo for All - 

[OSGeo-Discuss] Geo for all - also for the consumer

[Munich Orientation Convention]

 

Retransmitting without the annex acc. to  <http://www.volksnav.de/evolution>
www.volksnav.de/evolution  

Sorry for the congestion.

 

 

Von: Munich Orientation Convention [ <mailto:volks...@volksnav.de>
mailto:volks...@volksnav.de] 
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 4. August 2016 08:43
An: 'discuss@lists.osgeo.org'; 'standa...@lists.osgeo.org'
Cc: 'eddygo...@gmail.com'; 'Enock Seth Nyamador'; 'serenacoet...@gmail.com';
'fa...@rcmrd.org'; 'yazidhibamut...@gmail.com'; 'anthony.gid...@gmail.com'
Betreff: Geo for all - also for the consumer

 

Dear OSGeo members,

 

some projects running in Africa (e. g. Burundi  <http://www.volksnav.bi>
www.volksnav.bi) and mainly the Geo4all-Africa motivate me again to propose
a non-conventional cooperation concerning natural orientation tools. 

 

Resuming:

1 - the classical answers to the simple question "where?" are either too
academic (lat/lon) or too simple (names, post codes, "here!"
<http://www.volksnav.de/YouAreHere> www.volksnav.de/YouAreHere). 

 

2 - the abundance of open location codes proves the demand for alternatives
to 1. : 

OpenLocationCode  <http://www.openlocationcode.com>
www.openlocationcode.com, NAC  <http://www.nacgeo.com> www.nacgeo.com,
naymit  <http://www.naymit.com> www.naymit.com, what3words
<http://www.what3words.com> www.what3words.com, many others
<http://www.isotc211.org/Address/standards.htm>
www.isotc211.org/Address/standards.htm.  

 

This situation may satisfy universities and administrations but impedes
decisions in favor of the average consumer, e. g. tourists. 

 

3 - the simple overlay of a circle called r100
<http://www.volksnav.de/r100> www.volksnav.de/r100 is a consumer friendly
additional information which opens many other horizons, mainly the division
of the horizon into 12 directions - instead of academic 360. 

 

According to my experience, African citizens still have the capability to
see the things like children do: naturally. 

AddisMap  <http://www.AddisMap.com> www.AddisMap.com was the worldwide first
one who had the courage to overlay the proposed lines and - contradicting
all prophets - this was well accepted: no complains, no panic, no faints. 

Clicking on map, the location code for targets, crossings, stop points,
bridges etc. appears, in harmony with the app "blind in Addis"
<http://www.volksnav.de/blindInAddis> www.volksnav.de/blindInAddis for those
who (think they) can't read maps. The app has two (!!) compasses, the second
one "points" to the urban center m0, allowing a smart self-guiding.

 

4 - If such a system would be free and open, this would automatically
generate "better" clocks with other dimensions, symbols, identification
letters, accuracy, shapes, colors etc., destroying the idea of a worldwide
identical orientation standard. 

 

At the other side, merit principles and intellectual property are demonized.


The proposed way out is very simple: a standard with symbolical fees. 

 

So I'd appreciate if OSGeo would rethink my proposal. Before entering into
details, I'd suggest that the organizers of Geo4all-Africa analyze the
benefits from the point of view of the consumer. Thank you in advance for
your opinions directed to  <mailto:volks...@volksnav.de>
volks...@volksnav.de. Don't be polite, be honest.   



Henrique

 

  

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[OSGeo-Discuss] Orientation standard

[Munich Orientation Convention]

 

Hello Scott,

 

my license model is very simple: CASE by CASE. The fees can be zero or
symbolical (Burundi) and the merit principle should be valid, therefore not
collide with the openmania. 

 

Now that OGC is reviewing the own corset, it would a good opportunity to
consider a forgotten target group which has no other lobbies than inventors:
the consumer. 

 

4 billion people would obviously prefer the division of the horizon into 12
instead of 360 directions and prefer station codes
www.volksnav.de/TokyoMetro instead of none. Our brains need information like
www.volksnav.de/orientator/index.htm but lobbies and openmania generate
standards like post codes, 360 directions or www.volksnav.de/2directions .
What cost little is worth less, what costs nothing. 

 

Would it be possible for OGC to standardize the most of the Convention - e.
g. starting with a simple circle www.volksnav.de/r100 - or would this be
considered as openwashing?

 

Henrique   



 

 

 

 

 

 

-  I'm not a missionary but an inventor. Inventors develop systems
to cover market gaps expecting the proven merit principle.

-   

-  Fortunately or not, the market gap "orientation" would be a
matter for authorities and require standardization.

-   

-  My experience with classical standardization boards is: they
aren't interested on best but on free standards where only they can increase
incomes. So they would standardize a system like annex (division of the
horizon into 2 directions) just because it's free and would ignore a
proposal which additionally answers the fundamental questions "where am I?"
"where is north?" "where is downtown?" even if I ask for a symbolical merit.

-   

-  So a question arises: why should someone invest creativity, time
and money on a non-merit basis?

-   

-  What costs little is worth less, what costs nothing. looks like
post codes, maps of type YouAreHere www.volksnav.de/YouAreHere etc. The
resume is: actual standards can only be suboptimal.

 

 

 

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[OSGeo-Discuss] Orientation standard

[Munich Orientation Convention]

 

Hello Scott,

 

I like your questions. 

 

The most important is that the experts agree that r100 is a good and
consumer friendly Convention, at least for fast orientation purposes and as
an alternative to open squared systems or simply "here". The specifications
for this piece of a polar system could be:

 

1 - Name:

r100

 

2 - identification letter: 

"r" as radius, 

lower case.

 

3 - value: 

100, 

which represents 100 "blocks of houses", 100 x 100 meters or 100 x 100
yards. 

 

4 - color: 

red.

 

5 - conversion from lat/lon

acc. known geodetic algorithms. 

 

6 - definition of urban pole: 

according list ., 

actually only on www.volksnav.de/mapplet. 

 

The definition of these relevant urban poles is a result of many years of
hard work and I claim intellectual property. Here the question could arise:
"do you prefer open or  optimal polar systems?". 

Does anybody know if the transition point NS/EW for post codes in London (a
strange mix polar/squared system ) is a relevant point? Please confirm: it's
not.  

 



 

The proposed specification didn't come from members but could come active
from OGC side. Where there is a will, there is a way: is there the
possibility to create a premium standard for premium members? This would
surely increase the number of members.

 

Henrique

 

P. S.:  Openwashing:

http://opensource.com/business/14/12/openwashing-more-prevalent

 

 

 

 

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[OSGeo-Discuss] sponsoring / relevance / standard

[Munich Orientation Convention]

 

Hello Jeff,

 

I'm deeply grateful that I've been invited to propose to this discussion
forum the possibility to let the Munich Orientation Convention be an OSGeo
standard. 

 

So Burundian authorities could discover and prove the benefits of the
system. They have already effectuated the creation of the VolksNav S.a
www.volksnav.bi which will now be the local provider of better orientation
tools. VolksNav S.a will also produce maps with clock based search grids and
plans to reproduce all introduced systems in other African countries.
Investors are already knocking on the door.

 

The dominoes will fall from there, the Convention will be a de-facto
standard and OSGeo will have no relevance within this process.

 

I'd like to return the favor in 2016 as a sponsor. Would this be possible or
are there restrictions on that?

 

Henrique

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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] [OSGeo-Standards] sponsoring / relevance / standard

[Munich Orientation Convention]

 

Hi Cameron,

 

thank you for the kind support. According to Mahatma Gandhi, the stages for 
innovations are:

 

First they ignore you,

then they laugh at you,

then they fight you.

Then you win.

 

OGC didn’t reach the second stage.

>From my side, I’m open for any proposals in favor of the consumer, e. g. 50% 
>of the humankind who think to be unable to read maps 
>www.volksnav.de/YouAreHere.

 

Henrique  

 

 

 

Von: Cameron Shorter [mailto:cameron.shor...@gmail.com] 
Gesendet: Sonntag, 18. Oktober 2015 11:29
An: Munich Orientation Convention; standa...@lists.osgeo.org
Cc: is...@volksnav.bi; lib...@volksnav.bi; donat...@volksnav.bi; Scott Simmons
Betreff: Re: [OSGeo-Standards] sponsoring / relevance / standard

 

Hi Henrique,
I suspect that you would be better served to develop a standard under the 
umbrella of the Open Geospatial Consortium (OGC).
The OGC is specifically set up to develop spatial standards, where as OSGeo has 
a focus on Open Source geospatial software (which typically makes use of OGC 
standards).

Have you reached out to the OGC community yet? If not, I suggest getting in 
touch with them. I've CCed Scott Simmons from the OGC, who is also on this list.

Warm regards,
Cameron

On 18/10/2015 7:30 pm, Munich Orientation Convention wrote:

 

Hello Jeff,

 

I'm deeply grateful that I've been invited to propose to this discussion forum 
the possibility to let the Munich Orientation Convention be an OSGeo standard. 

 

So Burundian authorities could discover and prove the benefits of the system. 
They have already effectuated the creation of the VolksNav S.a  www.volksnav.bi 
which will now be the local provider of better orientation tools. VolksNav S.a 
will also produce maps with clock based search grids and plans to reproduce all 
introduced systems in other African countries. Investors are already knocking 
on the door.

 

The dominoes will fall from there, the Convention will be a de-facto standard 
and OSGeo will have no relevance within this process.

 

I'd like to return the favor in 2016 as a sponsor. Would this be possible or 
are there restrictions on that?

 

Henrique






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-- 
Cameron Shorter,
Software and Data Solutions Manager
LISAsoft
Suite 112, Jones Bay Wharf,
26 - 32 Pirrama Rd, Pyrmont NSW 2009
 
P +61 2 9009 5000,  W www.lisasoft.com,  F +61 2 9009 5099
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[OSGeo-Discuss] OSGeo 2.0 = QO_SGeo with flagship Orientation 2.0

[Munich Orientation Convention]

 

 

Hi Michael,

 

if you have a problem, think big.

 

Basing on the invention Orientation 2.0, I'd like to propose to launch the
Quite Open OSGeo as a standardization board respectively monopolist
http://www.volksnav.de/monopole/monopolist.pdf
www.volksnav.de/monopole/monopolist.pdf which - similar to ISO, DENIC etc. -
grants licenses to commercial users. The 6 billion private users would be
considered as bagatelle.

 

With this strategy, this intellectual property can generate US$ 50 billion
within 10 years, so there would be no more need for voluntary activities.  

 

This orientation standard could be used: 

 

-  as a global metrical alternative to lat/lon www.watchrose.com 

-  to address towns, crossings, mines, islands, volcanos etc. in
small countries like Burundi www.volksnav.de/Burundi or Cuba
www.volksnav.de/r100Cuba 

-  to address touristic attractions, see www.ManausOnline.com click
Turismo / Pontos Turisticos  

-  by the blind to find the right station www.volksnav.de/TokyoMetro
www.volksnav.de/blindInTokyo and the right entrance/exit
www.volksnav.de/PennStation.   

-  to unify Twin Citieswww.volksnav.de/NiagaraFalls
www.volksnav.de/TwinCities 

-  to address objects within a room (premium exhibitions), 

-  to address buildings within a property. During the 9/11
catastrophe, additional panic arose because the rescuers didn't know which
one was the tower 1 or 2.

-  to address points on a screen, picture etc. In this case r100
isn't round and means 100%

-  to minimize right/left and east/west ( Ost/West ) ( leste/oeste )
confusions. The Costa Concordia accident happened because a right/left
confusion during 8 seconds. The captain gave instructions in Italian
language (destra/sinistra), the steersman was Indonesian.  

-  to eliminate a fundamental weak point on signage and electronics
www.volksnav.de/VP 

-  for evacuation etc. through loudspeakers, megaphones or mobile
phones (Orientation Esperanto) 

-  by children to seek eastern eggs or find the right emergency
exit. I've tested this with street children and hidden coins on Copacabana
beach sand. Most of them can read a clock and all they know that radius 15
is more outwards than r10. Umbilicus Urbis (navel of the world) was during
1.000 years the mileage of the roads of the Roman Empire. This is nothing
but a radius. 

-  to make smarter and sharpen the orientation sense

 

etc. etc. I'm proposing this monopole to big companies (youtube: Google's
next quantum jump?) to $ 15 mi but they prefer to wait a little and pay $
500 mi ( to QOSGeo end of the year? ).

 

There is nothing to invest, only to decide how to share the incomes. I'm
sure, a lot of secondary inventions will arise.  

 

Is there anyone who also can think big?

 

Henrique

First they ignore you,

then they laugh at you,

then they fight you,

then you win. 

(Mahatma Gandhi)

 

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[OSGeo-Discuss] Location codes - best standard3all

[Munich Orientation Convention]

Hi Jonathan,

 

my system isn't easy to understand if you try to understand all 25 benefits
at once. 

Let's describe only the location code benefit: the codes consist on hours,
minutes and radius, nothing else. It was made for children, so please try to
think like a child.

 

Instead of molesting your customers with an address like:  

 

Howbery Park, Wallingford Oxfordshire, OX10 8BA,

 

you could indicate this:   http://www.volksnav.de/HRwallingford
www.volksnav.de/HRwallingford

 

193 blocks of houses from Oxford Carfax tower in direction m4, 

respectively 93 blocks later than m4.

 

The width of a sector is radius/2 (!), so you're close to the sector m5.

 

Besides: VolksNav is something like the military ro-theta navigation.

 

Henrique

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[OSGeo-Discuss] Location Codes - best standard for all

[Munich Orientation Convention]

 

Hi Jeff,

 

acc. to the rafagas, ISO plans to standardize the mapcode www.mapcode.com. 

 

The abundance of proposals for location codes like NAC www.nacgeo.com, OLC
www.openlocationcode.com, miscellaneous
www.isotc211.org/Address/standards.htm, what3words, geodudes etc. let
believe that the time is come to abandon the monopole of post
administrations and to introduce consumer friendly ones for the next
generations. 

 

The emperor is naked: with just one exception, the proposed codes have a
single purpose, have almost no local reference, are squared instead of open
www.volksnav.de/r100, don't allow quick detection of distances, directions
or angles, don't allow self-guiding, have no beneficial influence on
signage, aren't proper for indoor use, don't make smarter, don't sharpen the
orientation sense etc. 

 

I'm proposing my system to ISO but they insist on ignoring the merit
principle: only free systems (for ISO) are good systems.  

 

I've posted here a possibility to liberate the tool r100 and, depending on
the interested user, to liberate other tools or charge a symbolical fee. Now
that there is the possibility of a consolidation of the second, third. best
system, I'd appreciate if you'd start a discussion about the general need of
better answers to the simple questions whereto? and where?. 

 

StandardForAll: this discussion should include the needs of children,
ancients, the blind, illiterate, heavy-handed, those who can't read maps
www.volksnav.de/MapDanger etc.

 

Maybe an actual project could lead the discussion: would OGC recommend to
Burundi authorities to ignore or to explore this market gap? My proposal
www.volksnav.de/r100Bujumbura has been understood. 

 

Thank you in advance, Jeff.

 

Henrique

 

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[OSGeo-Discuss] Logical house numbers

[Munich Orientation Convention]

Hi all,

 

for those who are still thinking how to introduce the free tool r100
http://www.volksnav.de/r100 www.volksnav.de/r100, here an example:

 

Nezahualcoyotl is a surburb of Mexico City. Acc. to www.neza.gov.mx, the
City Hall of Neza has the following address:

 

Av. Chimalhuacán S/N  (no number)

between Faisán and Caballo Bayo
Col. Benito Juárez, Nezahualcóyotl.
Estado de México. C.P. 57000 

 

The av. Chimalhuacán has a length of  8.25 kilometers! While experts care
about post codes (?) and location codes, nobody cares about better house
numbers. 

 

r100 can be the start of the reform of post codes AND house numbers. A
marginal crossing in Neza would have the following crossing code:

 

-  MexCity m3 r100   

 

(100x100 meters from the urban pole to sunrise)

 

The house number MexCity m3 r100 r23 

has a precision of 2 meters and means: 

23 meters from this crossing to outside, 

“later” side of the street (odd number like the number 1) 

 

The house number MexCity m3 r100 :18 

means: 

18 meters from this crossing to “later” (clockwise), 

“earlier” side of the street (even number).  

 

See www.volksnav.de/Neza 

 

So if OSM maps would include crossing codes or r100, there would be no more
need to include house numbers.

Who will leave GroupThinking and make the start? 

 

Henrique

 

 

 

 

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[OSGeo-Discuss] r100 as OpenStandard: start in Nepal?

[Munich Orientation Convention]

Dear all,

 

a member of OSGeo was the opinion, not only r100 should be OpenStandard. The
following answer may be of interest:

 

The actual question is: is r100 an useful tool or not? If not, the
discussion can end here.

If yes (also considering the needs of average people, the blind, children,
ancients etc. ), anyone can use it for free. Example Nepal
www.volksnav.de/r100Nepal.  

 

But what can happen? According to my experience, a lot of experts will try
to improve this tool with another colors, another dimensions, another
names, even another shapes :-). Strong arguments like never change a
winning team and ten thousand experts can't be wrong, can deteriorate
r100 to green squares with 50 different names around other urban poles I've
defined after many years of hard work.  

 

In this very special case, cost free tools could be counterproductive. What
costs little is worth less. What costs nothing looks like actual post codes
(who still needs them?). The solution I see to avoid another Babel tower is:
symbolical fees. Can you imagine arguments against this regulation tool? 

 

Let's see an example: are you as a possible visitor the opinion that
FOSS4G2015 shouldn't introduce additional indoor and urban orientation tools
for you than here  http://2015.foss4g.org/ http://2015.foss4g.org/ (see
map below) because of a fee of EUR 2,-?

 

Henrique

 

 

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[OSGeo-Discuss] r100 for Twin Cities

[Munich Orientation Convention]

Hi Bob in St. Paul,

r100 could consolidate the old idea of Twin Cities:
www.volksnav.de/r100TwinCities. A convenient common pole could be the Lake
street bridge.  

Henrique





-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org
[mailto:discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org] Im Auftrag von Basques, Bob
(CI-StPaul)
Gesendet: Dienstag, 21. April 2015 17:54
An: Serena Coetzee; ICA-OSGeo Lab Network; discuss@lists.osgeo.org
Betreff: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Open source / open data related to
addressing/geocoding

Serena,

You should definite mention US National Grid (or from the World Perspective,
I think Universal Grid is the pertinent label).

It has already been demonstrated to work very well as an addressing method.


You can find more info at these links:


http://usngcenter.org/
http://www.usngstore.com/

bobb





-Original Message-
From: discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org
[mailto:discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org] On Behalf Of Serena Coetzee
Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2015 3:10 AM
To: ICA-OSGeo Lab Network; discuss@lists.osgeo.org
Subject: [OSGeo-Discuss] Open source / open data related to
addressing/geocoding

Dear all, 

on Thursday this week, I am presenting about open source and open data to
the Addressing Group of the Universal Postal Union (UPU), a UN organization
with 192 member countries [1]. If you know about interesting open source
software or open data related to addressing and/or geocoding, let me know.
Anything that I receive by Wednesday evening, I could include in the
presentation.

[1] www.upu.int

Regards,
--
Serena Coetzee

Geography Building 3-5
Centre for Geoinformation Science, Department Geography, Geoinformatics and
Meteorology, University of Pretoria, Private Bag X20, Hatfield, 0028, South
Africa
email: serena.coet...@up.ac.za Web: www.up.ac.za/cgis 
Mobile: +27 82 464 4294 * Tel: +27 12 420 3823 * Fax: +27 12 420 6385


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[OSGeo-Discuss] Universal Post Code

[Munich Orientation Convention]

 

Hello Serena,

 

the 192 UPU member countries have (192?) different post codes and I don't
believe that a completely open code will ever change this disorder. What
costs little is worth less, what costs nothing.

 

Please be so kind to mention there that r100 as OpenStandard
www.volksnav.de/r100 could be the first step towards an Universal (and
useful) Post Code and that UPU should manage this. Thank you in advance,
Henrique 

 

 

Von: discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org
[mailto:discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org] Im Auftrag von Munich Orientation
Convention
Gesendet: Freitag, 17. April 2015 10:15
An:  mailto:discuss@lists.osgeo.org discuss@lists.osgeo.org
Betreff: [OSGeo-Discuss] r100 generator

 

 

Hi everybody,

 

looking for a way to reform the enigmatic house numbering in Japan, I've
accidentally invented a system which can reform all orientation tools
including signage, post codes and room numbers. The system makes smarter,
sharpens the orientation sense and bases on imaginary clocks, a method used
by soldiers, pilots, boy scouts, the blind etc. for more than 100 years. For
a mass application, only a Convention was missing.

 

When we compare house numbers or milestones, we guide ourselves. Location
codes  and special pictograms allow us to guide ourselves around an
indoor/urban/global pole as elegantly as in Rio de Janeiro around the Christ
statue: 

 

- inwards/outwards 

and 

- clockwise/counter clockwise

 

and this in harmony with codes for targets, crossings
www.volksnav.de/lollipop, stations www.volksnav.de/TokyoMetro, stop points,
bridges, tunnels etc. and in harmony with imagination, signage, cartography,
intelligent post codes, online applications www.volksnav.de/search, mobile
applications like www.volksnav.de/blindInTheCity for the blind etc. Possible
licensees are listed on www.volksnav.de/flyer and the fees are basically
symbolical. 

 

A proposal to OSGeo Cuba according to www.volksnav.de/r100Cuba generated the
idea to declare the tool called r100 as OpenStandard. Confirm yourself the
nakedness of the emperor: just compare the FOSS4G map on
http://2015.foss4g.org/ with www.volksnav.de/r100Seoul. 

 

So I'd appreciate if all maps for cities listed in www.volksnav.de/mapplet
would include r100 or open this possibility. This list grows continuously
and suggestions are more than welcome. Please consider that uncontrolled
changes of elements of the Convention would work against the idea of an
orientation standard, that means, against you as consumer.

 

Forums can be idea killers. I'm sure this forum will be an idea amplifier
and am eager to hear your ideas around this proposal.

 

Henrique 

 

 

 

 

 

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[OSGeo-Discuss] square vs. polar grids

[Munich Orientation Convention]

 

 

The abundance of ideas for location codes proves the demand for simple
answers to the simple question where?, see www.volksnav.de/YouAreHere.
Street names, lat/lon and post codes aren't simple. 

 

The cities Mannheim, Brasilia etc. begun to answer the question without
street names but they adopted SQUARE grids, a self-strangulation.

Other codes also base on square grids and have only one global reference.
What costs little.

 

Polar grids have an global/urban/indoor reference, have no limitations,
support the natural angle orientation and in my case divide the horizon into
12 instead of 360 main directions and - like the OpenStandard r100 - are
METRICAL.   

 

See also 

Touristic attractions in Manaus www.ManausOnline.com click Turismo / Pontos
turisticos

ISO
www.isotc211.org/Address/standards.htm

Navipedia/ESA
www.navipedia.org/index.php/Step_By_Step_Navigation

 

 

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[OSGeo-Discuss] r100 generator

[Munich Orientation Convention]

 

Hi everybody,

 

looking for a way to reform the enigmatic house numbering in Japan, I've
accidentally invented a system which can reform all orientation tools
including signage, post codes and room numbers. The system makes smarter,
sharpens the orientation sense and bases on imaginary clocks, a method used
by soldiers, pilots, boy scouts, the blind etc. for more than 100 years. For
a mass application, only a Convention was missing.

 

When we compare house numbers or milestones, we guide ourselves. Location
codes  and special pictograms allow us to guide ourselves around an
indoor/urban/global pole as elegantly as in Rio de Janeiro around the Christ
statue: 

 

- inwards/outwards 

and 

- clockwise/counter clockwise

 

and this in harmony with codes for targets, crossings
www.volksnav.de/lollipop, stations www.volksnav.de/TokyoMetro, stop points,
bridges, tunnels etc. and in harmony with imagination, signage, cartography,
intelligent post codes, online applications www.volksnav.de/search, mobile
applications like www.volksnav.de/blindInTheCity for the blind etc. Possible
licensees are listed on www.volksnav.de/flyer and the fees are basically
symbolical. 

 

A proposal to OSGeo Cuba according to www.volksnav.de/r100Cuba generated the
idea to declare the tool called r100 as OpenStandard. Confirm yourself the
nakedness of the emperor: just compare the FOSS4G map on
http://2015.foss4g.org/ with www.volksnav.de/r100Seoul. 

 

So I'd appreciate if all maps for cities listed in www.volksnav.de/mapplet
would include r100 or open this possibility. This list grows continuously
and suggestions are more than welcome. Please consider that uncontrolled
changes of elements of the Convention would work against the idea of an
orientation standard, that means, against you as consumer.

 

Forums can be idea killers. I'm sure this forum will be an idea amplifier
and am eager to hear your ideas around this proposal.

 

Henrique 

 

 

 

 

 

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