Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Free Developer Slots at FOSS4G events: [was RE: FW: [Board] OSGeo Board Priorities]
On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 10:45 AM, Paolo Cavallini cavall...@faunalia.it wrote: So how many lower-rate slots would that require? We've got 17 official projects and 7 incubating projects according to the home page summary. With this year's rates (full 350 £, student 240 £) and only 2 developers per project it could account for a difference up to 110 £ * 48 = 5280 £. Not terrible after all. I thnk it's far less than that. Hopefully this will bring people that otherwise would not come, so no net cost (and a lot more value to the conference, and a more developer friendly attitude). Given the recent strategic message, I don't think its in the local FOSS4G committee's role to provide bursaries beyond the well-established student discount - certainly not for 2013 Nottingham anyway. If OSGEO want to do that, then they can consider it as a skim off the conference profits. I'm sure the local committee will be glad to point people to OSGEO bursaries from the conference web page. We just need to hear from OSGEO purse-holders to see if they are willing. I think we already have someone providing education-related bursaries, so there's a precedent. Barry ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Free Developer Slots at FOSS4G events: [was RE: FW: [Board] OSGeo Board Priorities]
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Il 07/03/2013 12:03, Barry Rowlingson ha scritto: Given the recent strategic message, I don't think its in the local FOSS4G committee's role to provide bursaries beyond the well-established student discount - certainly not for 2013 Nottingham anyway. If OSGEO want to do that, then they can consider it as a skim off the conference profits. I'm sure the local committee will be glad to point people to OSGEO bursaries from the conference web page. We just need to hear from OSGEO purse-holders to see if they are willing. I think we already have someone providing education-related bursaries, so there's a precedent. Hi Barry, I think we are mixing two issues here: * 0 fees for developers - as I pointed out, this is not a cost for the conference, but rather an advantage (participants are more likely to come if the know most top developers are present); my suggestion is that this should become a requirement from OSGeo * bursaries to cover travelling and lodging; this is outside my original proposal, and should be treated differently. All the best. - -- Paolo Cavallini - Faunalia www.faunalia.eu Full contact details at www.faunalia.eu/pc Nuovi corsi QGIS e PostGIS: http://www.faunalia.it/calendario -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAlE4dPwACgkQ/NedwLUzIr4FrwCgmb0PM/HIDR8osmZnI+/dZi0u sycAn3NZBz/G6tS2bDrsW6H9ZQeV+Epm =me4v -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Free Developer Slots at FOSS4G events: [was RE: FW: [Board] OSGeo Board Priorities]
I think we are mixing two issues here: * 0 fees for developers - as I pointed out, this is not a cost for the conference, but rather an advantage (participants are more likely to come if the know most top developers are present); my suggestion is that this should become a requirement from OSGeo I am unlikely to attend foss4g this year either way. Many of the developers I know can only attend conferences when their fees are covered (as a speaker or by giving a workshop). So while I am not automatically in favour of 0 fees for developers - it would have a large impact on enabling developers to attend. Cheers, Jody ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Free Developer Slots at FOSS4G events: [was RE: FW: [Board] OSGeo Board Priorities]
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Il 05/03/2013 00:51, Frank Warmerdam ha scritto: Possibly a scheme were each formal OSGeo project could nominate two or three contributors to attend at the student rate? sounds good. thanks. - -- Paolo Cavallini - Faunalia www.faunalia.eu Full contact details at www.faunalia.eu/pc Nuovi corsi QGIS e PostGIS: http://www.faunalia.it/calendario -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAlE3UysACgkQ/NedwLUzIr6jTwCfQMmS+gSxXNud/Uu70AIOEOoB YJwAniQdCD0Cbe43yB9cU7ykqjM+svsw =EZOB -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Free Developer Slots at FOSS4G events: [was RE: FW: [Board] OSGeo Board Priorities]
Those are questions, which I'm aware of as well J Dne 5.3.2013 00:15, Bruce Bannerman napsal(a): But who would select these people? What would be the eligibility criteria? What process would be used that would allow an open and auditable selection of recipients? How would other hard working developers feel if they missed out on a free slot? What then would the impact be on the community and on the FOSS4G conference? -- Jachym Cepicky Help Service - Remote Sensing s.r.o. jachym.cepi...@gmail.com HS-RS: jac...@hsrs.cz http://bnhelp.cz http://les-ejk.cz signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Free Developer Slots at FOSS4G events: [was RE: FW: [Board] OSGeo Board Priorities]
Frank, Dne 5.3.2013 00:51, Frank Warmerdam napsal(a): Possibly a scheme were each formal OSGeo project could nominate two or three contributors to attend at the student rate? Note that I'm not suggesting it would necessarily apply this year but if we can come up with a palatable scheme we could write it into the RFP for the future. I was thinking about something similar. Jachym -- Jachym Cepicky Help Service - Remote Sensing s.r.o. jachym.cepi...@gmail.com HS-RS: jac...@hsrs.cz http://bnhelp.cz http://les-ejk.cz signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Free Developer Slots at FOSS4G events: [was RE: FW: [Board] OSGeo Board Priorities]
To add to what Bruce just wrote, unless you happen to live in the region where FOSS4G is being held a given year, then the cost of traveling to FOSS4G (flight/train, hotel, meals, etc.) is much more significant than the registration cost and very likely a bigger show stopper for those who cannot afford to go. I am all for trying to make the event more accessible and keeping the registration costs as low as possible, for instance by choosing more affordable venues, but I am not convinced that free registration passes would make much of a difference when you take into acount the other travel costs and most importantly the complications introduced by an arbitrary selection process. My 0.02$ Daniel On 13-03-04 6:15 PM, Bruce Bannerman wrote: (Wearing my former FOSS4G Conference organiser hat) Paolo and Jachym, This is an issue that comes up on a fairly regular basis. To be honest, as a person who has attended a number of spatial conferences, I must say that the costs for the average FOSS4G international conference are very reasonable and compare very favourably with similar events. They also represent excellent value for money when you think of the typical breadth and high quality of presentations. As a conference organiser, there is a great deal of pressure on ensuring a financially viable conference. It is not until the very last stages of the planning for the event that you start to get an understanding of how many people have actually committed to attend the event, and whether you will cover your costs for the event. There is a cost, even for 'free' slots. Think of meals, drinks and lost revenue opportunities to cover conference costs. So if a lot of free slots are given to developers and the conference fails to attract sufficient delegates to cover the conference costs, who pays for the short fall in funds that the conference has committed to? Do the volunteer local organisers pay out of their own pocket? Does OSGeo? We (FOSS4G-2009) did look at the idea of have a 'few' slots available for developers who had done an outstanding job for the community. But who would select these people? What would be the eligibility criteria? What process would be used that would allow an open and auditable selection of recipients? How would other hard working developers feel if they missed out on a free slot? What then would the impact be on the community and on the FOSS4G conference? So in the end, we decided out of fairness for all developers that we would not offer free slots for developers. So in summary: * FOSS4G events are good value for money and not overly expensive. * It does not make financial sense to provide a lot of free places for developers at FOSS4G conferences. If there are insufficient funds to cover the substantial conference costs, who pays? Bruce -- Forwarded Message *From: *Jachym Cepicky *Date: *Mon, 4 Mar 2013 20:59:14 +1100 *To: *cavallini http://cavall...@faunalia.it *Cc: *OSGeo Discussions , OSGeo-Board List *Subject: *Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] [Board] OSGeo Board Priorities Hi, I fully agree, that the costs for individuals or small company are very heigh. I'm aware, you were mentioning this issue already. Since I know, FOSS4G-Global is the main source of income to OSGeo, I did not raise any obligation so far - I have no clue, how to organize this better for the future. Paolo's idea sounds not bad: having some kind of scholarship program, where we could allocate some money for people who can not come but it's valuable to have them there. Do we have some priorities for FOSS4G as well? In general, when I'm discussing this topic with people, general feelings are, that FOSS4G-Global is very developer-oriented meeting, compared e.g. to FOSSGIS (German local conference), which would be more user or business oriented (correct me if I'm wrong, it is a while, I was there). Having priorities of the FOSS4G-global could also point us the the answer, whether we should financially support developers to come or not. Jachym Dne 4.3.2013 08:33, Paolo Cavallini napsal(a): Il 04/03/2013 00:44, Cameron Shorter ha scritto: A productive virtual meeting of the OSGeo Board http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Board_Meeting_2013-02-26 resulted in general consensus over OSGeo's priorities, which in turn should help the OSGeo Board and OSGeo committees when guiding OSGeo into the future. These principles are: * OSGeo should act as a low capital, volunteer focused organisation. * OSGeo should focus support on OSGeo communities and initiatives which support themselves. Hi all. Thanks for this. I welcome this change, that I think will make OSGeo much more effective in promoting free and open source geospatial software. On the other hand, I still have problems with annual FOSS4G, which has a cost
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Free Developer Slots at FOSS4G events: [was RE: FW: [Board] OSGeo Board Priorities]
Jachym / Bruce / Paolo, There is certainly a difference in the pricing between FOSS4G and some of the smaller scrappier conferences but by comparison to other professional conferences it is certainly reasonably priced. Bruce - in the past workshop presenters would get free entrance for the conference. Is that the case this year? I feel like that was often a way for core community contributors to get in free while adding a very serious added value to the conference. I am interested in ways that we could make it easier / cheaper for core contributors to attend. Just by being there they add value to the conference, and the conference exists in part to serve the project contributors. Possibly a scheme were each formal OSGeo project could nominate two or three contributors to attend at the student rate? Note that I'm not suggesting it would necessarily apply this year but if we can come up with a palatable scheme we could write it into the RFP for the future. Doing it at the student rate would at least help avoid the conference being out-of-pocket for too much. Best regards, Frank On Mon, Mar 4, 2013 at 3:15 PM, Bruce Bannerman bruce.bannerman.os...@gmail.com wrote: (Wearing my former FOSS4G Conference organiser hat) Paolo and Jachym, This is an issue that comes up on a fairly regular basis. To be honest, as a person who has attended a number of spatial conferences, I must say that the costs for the average FOSS4G international conference are very reasonable and compare very favourably with similar events. They also represent excellent value for money when you think of the typical breadth and high quality of presentations. As a conference organiser, there is a great deal of pressure on ensuring a financially viable conference. It is not until the very last stages of the planning for the event that you start to get an understanding of how many people have actually committed to attend the event, and whether you will cover your costs for the event. There is a cost, even for 'free' slots. Think of meals, drinks and lost revenue opportunities to cover conference costs. So if a lot of free slots are given to developers and the conference fails to attract sufficient delegates to cover the conference costs, who pays for the short fall in funds that the conference has committed to? Do the volunteer local organisers pay out of their own pocket? Does OSGeo? We (FOSS4G-2009) did look at the idea of have a 'few' slots available for developers who had done an outstanding job for the community. But who would select these people? What would be the eligibility criteria? What process would be used that would allow an open and auditable selection of recipients? How would other hard working developers feel if they missed out on a free slot? What then would the impact be on the community and on the FOSS4G conference? So in the end, we decided out of fairness for all developers that we would not offer free slots for developers. So in summary: - FOSS4G events are good value for money and not overly expensive. - It does not make financial sense to provide a lot of free places for developers at FOSS4G conferences. If there are insufficient funds to cover the substantial conference costs, who pays? Bruce -- Forwarded Message *From: *Jachym Cepicky *Date: *Mon, 4 Mar 2013 20:59:14 +1100 *To: *cavallini http://cavall...@faunalia.it *Cc: *OSGeo Discussions , OSGeo-Board List *Subject: *Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] [Board] OSGeo Board Priorities Hi, I fully agree, that the costs for individuals or small company are very heigh. I'm aware, you were mentioning this issue already. Since I know, FOSS4G-Global is the main source of income to OSGeo, I did not raise any obligation so far - I have no clue, how to organize this better for the future. Paolo's idea sounds not bad: having some kind of scholarship program, where we could allocate some money for people who can not come but it's valuable to have them there. Do we have some priorities for FOSS4G as well? In general, when I'm discussing this topic with people, general feelings are, that FOSS4G-Global is very developer-oriented meeting, compared e.g. to FOSSGIS (German local conference), which would be more user or business oriented (correct me if I'm wrong, it is a while, I was there). Having priorities of the FOSS4G-global could also point us the the answer, whether we should financially support developers to come or not. Jachym Dne 4.3.2013 08:33, Paolo Cavallini napsal(a): Il 04/03/2013 00:44, Cameron Shorter ha scritto: A productive virtual meeting of the OSGeo Board http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Board_Meeting_2013-02-26 resulted in general consensus over OSGeo's priorities, which in turn should help the OSGeo Board and OSGeo committees when guiding OSGeo into the future. These principles are: * OSGeo should act as a low capital, volunteer focused organisation.
