RE: [OSGeo-Discuss] Is the integration of FOSS4G and proprietary software good for FOSS4G?
Hello, I also agree to spread open source software on as many places as possible, and let the users decide based on their experience. So it seems, we all agree. Do you think a different point of view would arise if, for instance, a project like pgRouting would port to run also on top of Oracle Locator/Spatial? What would be the point of view for PostGIS project? I'm very interested in knowing PostGIS' people thoughts, so thanks in advance. Best, Miguel Montesinos De: discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org [mailto:discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org] En nombre de Ragi Burhum Enviado el: jueves, 18 de marzo de 2010 17:23 Para: discuss@lists.osgeo.org Asunto: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Is the integration of FOSS4G and proprietary software good for FOSS4G? +1 on what Daniel said. Personally, my interest lies on having successful, productive, - *happy* - users. Not on persuading anyone from one philosophy to another one. - Ragi ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Is the integration of FOSS4G and proprietary software good for FOSS4G?
All the same to me. A frosted turd is still a turd. P On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 5:35 AM, Miguel Montesinos mmontesi...@prodevelop.es wrote: Hello, I also agree to spread open source software on as many places as possible, and let the users decide based on their experience. So it seems, we all agree. Do you think a different point of view would arise if, for instance, a project like pgRouting would port to run also on top of Oracle Locator/Spatial? What would be the point of view for PostGIS project? I’m very interested in knowing PostGIS’ people thoughts, so thanks in advance. Best, Miguel Montesinos De: discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org [mailto:discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org] En nombre de Ragi Burhum Enviado el: jueves, 18 de marzo de 2010 17:23 Para: discuss@lists.osgeo.org Asunto: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Is the integration of FOSS4G and proprietary software good for FOSS4G? +1 on what Daniel said. Personally, my interest lies on having successful, productive, - *happy* - users. Not on persuading anyone from one philosophy to another one. - Ragi ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Is the integration of FOSS4G and proprietary software good for FOSS4G?
+1 on what Daniel said. Personally, my interest lies on having successful, productive, - *happy* - users. Not on persuading anyone from one philosophy to another one. - Ragi ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
[OSGeo-Discuss] Is the integration of FOSS4G and proprietary software good for FOSS4G?
Hello, I throw out a question some people are debating in Spain [1 (only Spanish)]. Sextante has the intention (or at least have thought about it) of building bindings so that it can be used from proprietary applications, like ArcGIS. 1) Do you think that it may avoid proprietary users to migrate to open solutions, as they can benefit of open-source libraries under their proprietary software? Besides, this give arguments to proprietary manufacturers because of the weakness of open-source software needing to run on top of proprietary ones, or to sell out their compatibility with FOSS4G. 2) Do you think that it may lead proprietary users to try out and migrate to open source solutions due to the good impression they can have after using FOSS4G? Besides, this could generate incomes to improve FOSS4G developments, and offer alternatives to proprietary extensions, drivers, ... What is your oppinion about this tricky question? Best, [1] http://sextantegis.blogspot.com/ - Miguel Montesinos CTO PRODEVELOP, S.L. mmontesinos [at] prodevelop [dot] es www.prodevelop.es ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Is the integration of FOSS4G and proprietary software good for FOSS4G?
Hi Miguel, The answer depends on how you measure success. If your measure of success is the number of people who drop their proprietary apps in favor of open source packages then you may not want to build this kind of bridge since your best tactic may be to play the same vendor lock-in game as some proprietary vendors do (note I wrote some vendors and not all). OTOH, if you measure success by the number of happy users/customers of your software (as I do), then by all means, build as many bridges as possible. In this case it does not matter if your users continue to use their proprietary software in parallel with your open source package, what matters is that at the end of the day they could be more efficient in doing their work, and in the end become happier campers. A good example of this is the GDAL/OGR project which is a success (IMHO) in large part because the license and philosophy of the project encouraged proprietary vendors to use and contribute to it. As a result, it is in use everywhere today, and even ESRI considers it part of the best open source technology that it is committed to supporting (http://esri.com/opensource). See http://gdal.org/credits.html for a list of organizations who have adopted and supported the project over the years. My 0.02$ Daniel Miguel Montesinos wrote: Hello, I throw out a question some people are debating in Spain [1 (only Spanish)]. Sextante has the intention (or at least have thought about it) of building bindings so that it can be used from proprietary applications, like ArcGIS. 1) Do you think that it may avoid proprietary users to migrate to open solutions, as they can benefit of open-source libraries under their proprietary software? Besides, this give arguments to proprietary manufacturers because of the weakness of open-source software needing to run on top of proprietary ones, or to sell out their compatibility with FOSS4G. 2) Do you think that it may lead proprietary users to try out and migrate to open source solutions due to the good impression they can have after using FOSS4G? Besides, this could generate incomes to improve FOSS4G developments, and offer alternatives to proprietary extensions, drivers, ... What is your oppinion about this tricky question? Best, [1] http://sextantegis.blogspot.com/ - Miguel Montesinos CTO PRODEVELOP, S.L. mmontesinos [at] prodevelop [dot] es www.prodevelop.es ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss -- Daniel Morissette http://www.mapgears.com/ ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Is the integration of FOSS4G and proprietary software good for FOSS4G?
On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 2:28 AM, Miguel Montesinos mmontesi...@prodevelop.es wrote: 1) Do you think that it may avoid proprietary users to migrate to open solutions, as they can benefit of open-source libraries under their proprietary software? It's overwhelmingly a good thing. If people are using proprietary software that incorporates open source libraries.. then they are using both open source AND proprietary software components. 100% open source purists (in my opinion) alienate themselves from a large portion of the community. There are many practical reasons to use proprietary software, I don't see it as something that ever gets 100% eliminated (in an realistic timeline relevant to me). Besides, this give arguments to proprietary manufacturers because of the weakness of open-source software needing to run on top of proprietary ones, or to sell out their compatibility with FOSS4G. No more than an argument that proprietary software is weak for 'needing' to leverage open source. And how is selling compatibility with FOSS4G bad? Isn't that the goal? -- Brian Russo / (808) 271 4166 ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Is the integration of FOSS4G and proprietary software good for FOSS4G?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 100% support to what Daniel and Brian say. One mission of OSGeo is to support standards development, another to interact with all geospatial communities. Even although they have a different take on licensing proprietary vendors are a valuable part of the geospatial community. To alienate users who are stuck on proprietary software for whichever reason would not help any of us. Best regards, Arnulf. Daniel Morissette wrote: Hi Miguel, The answer depends on how you measure success. If your measure of success is the number of people who drop their proprietary apps in favor of open source packages then you may not want to build this kind of bridge since your best tactic may be to play the same vendor lock-in game as some proprietary vendors do (note I wrote some vendors and not all). OTOH, if you measure success by the number of happy users/customers of your software (as I do), then by all means, build as many bridges as possible. In this case it does not matter if your users continue to use their proprietary software in parallel with your open source package, what matters is that at the end of the day they could be more efficient in doing their work, and in the end become happier campers. A good example of this is the GDAL/OGR project which is a success (IMHO) in large part because the license and philosophy of the project encouraged proprietary vendors to use and contribute to it. As a result, it is in use everywhere today, and even ESRI considers it part of the best open source technology that it is committed to supporting (http://esri.com/opensource). See http://gdal.org/credits.html for a list of organizations who have adopted and supported the project over the years. My 0.02$ Daniel Miguel Montesinos wrote: Hello, I throw out a question some people are debating in Spain [1 (only Spanish)]. Sextante has the intention (or at least have thought about it) of building bindings so that it can be used from proprietary applications, like ArcGIS. 1) Do you think that it may avoid proprietary users to migrate to open solutions, as they can benefit of open-source libraries under their proprietary software? Besides, this give arguments to proprietary manufacturers because of the weakness of open-source software needing to run on top of proprietary ones, or to sell out their compatibility with FOSS4G. 2) Do you think that it may lead proprietary users to try out and migrate to open source solutions due to the good impression they can have after using FOSS4G? Besides, this could generate incomes to improve FOSS4G developments, and offer alternatives to proprietary extensions, drivers, ... What is your oppinion about this tricky question? Best, [1] http://sextantegis.blogspot.com/ - Miguel Montesinos CTO PRODEVELOP, S.L. mmontesinos [at] prodevelop [dot] es www.prodevelop.es ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss - -- Arnulf Christl Exploring Space, Time and Mind http://arnulf.us -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkug3IQACgkQXmFKW+BJ1b2esQCfWjsLDsnn54UOTE0x7TvVLhdy yRIAnAmjcpm6zxGz1GdnJriMXXzwYl7z =WnGO -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Is the integration of FOSS4G and proprietary software good for FOSS4G?
On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 2:29 PM, Brian Russo br...@beruna.org wrote: On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 2:28 AM, Miguel Montesinos mmontesi...@prodevelop.es wrote: 1) Do you think that it may avoid proprietary users to migrate to open solutions, as they can benefit of open-source libraries under their proprietary software? It's overwhelmingly a good thing. If people are using proprietary software that incorporates open source libraries.. then they are using both open source AND proprietary software components. 100% open source purists (in my opinion) alienate themselves from a large portion of the community. There are many practical reasons to use proprietary software, I don't see it as something that ever gets 100% eliminated (in an realistic timeline relevant to me). This is a very good point, I fully agree with it. IMHO the success of FOSS4G can be measures not (only) by the number of closed/commercial deployments we can try to replace but rather by the number of closed source software/companies relying on it. GDAL docet. Ciao, Simone. Besides, this give arguments to proprietary manufacturers because of the weakness of open-source software needing to run on top of proprietary ones, or to sell out their compatibility with FOSS4G. No more than an argument that proprietary software is weak for 'needing' to leverage open source. And how is selling compatibility with FOSS4G bad? Isn't that the goal? -- Brian Russo / (808) 271 4166 ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Is the integration of FOSS4G and proprietary software good for FOSS4G?
Hi Miguel, I support Sextante's idea. Migration is a stressful job for any user. Compatibility will increase by these projects leading to easier transition. Also, the argument about open source needing proprietary software works both ways. ;) In India, a typical GIS user doesn't bother to look into the software to learn what is doing the work. Those who heard about FOSS have many doubts. Seeing their favourite software using FOSS will be a big confident booster. However, care has to be taken to ensure FOSS gets it's share of the spotlight. Users should be able to see what is doing the work. -- Best regards, Chaitanya kumar CH. /tʃaɪθənjə/ /kʊmɑr/ +91-9848167848 17.2416N 80.1426E ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
