Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Map of Wiki/OSGeo Members
Oh, and I forgot to mention put any type of ohloh registered project as a parameter and you will see user locations for that project. for example: <http://www.mapserv.nl/osmohloh/index.html?project=mapserver> Rafal Wawer wrote: Hi Christian, A very nice map indeed. The functionality is good and fast, however a possibility to make zoom with bounding box would be a nice addon. The outlook is very similiar to http://spatial-reference.org. Best regards or MfG (-: Raf - Original Message - From: "Christian Willmes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "OSGeo Discussions" Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2008 3:49 PM Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Map of Wiki/OSGeo Members Hello, today I setup a live demo of the mediawiki extension I wrote on a internet accessible mediawiki installation on Arnulfs server. -> http://arnulf.us/UserLocalization_Example In the moment its not really showing what its made for because there are only two users of this wiki instance in the moment. Tyler Mitchell (OSGeo) schrieb: How is it going on your project, what is the status? Your efforts sound really interesting and could be broadly useful - so I hope you can finish it. It is not the question If I finish it, it is only the question when. ;-) But I like to work on it and I'm willing to make it better and better. I'm not convinced that geocoding IPs is going to be as useful for OSGeo though - I think that many members will never use the wiki. Recently I checked revisions and more than half the revisions were done by only 10 people :) To get the categories set for each user did you have to do them manually, or did most people do it themselves after the reminder? Yes, and also the privacy thing is maybe an issue. I think not everybody wants to have a "track" of his editing locations public accessible. Its just a nice thing for a geo mashup with the geocoding service I thought... and there was something about it on the discussion page ( http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Category_talk:OSGeo_Member ). I will try to make some more functions and improve it. I would be very happy for any suggestions for what could be better done or what would be a good additional function. Best regards, Christian ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss Disclaimer: http://www.kuleuven.be/cwis/email_disclaimer.htm ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss -- *Milo van der Linden* GIS and web3D specialist View Milo van der Linden's profile on LinkedIn <http://www.linkedin.com/pub/2/3b3/a76> *3DSite* <http://www.3dsite.nl> Joachimikade 3F <http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Joachimikade+3F%2CGoes%2CZeeland+4461BG%2CThe+Netherlands&hl=en> Goes, Zeeland 4461BG The Netherlands *Phone: * +31113751508 *Mobile:* +31616598808 *Email: * [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> *Skype: * milovanderlindenMy status * Mapserver hosting <http://www.mapserv.nl> * GoogleEarth business solutions * Geo-exposure ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Map of Wiki/OSGeo Members
I myself set up a sample that uses the ohloh API, combines it with the openstreetmap and shows als contributors(c) and users(u) that registered for the openstreetmap project on ohloh.net http://www.mapserv.nl/osmohloh/ Rafal Wawer wrote: Hi Christian, A very nice map indeed. The functionality is good and fast, however a possibility to make zoom with bounding box would be a nice addon. The outlook is very similiar to http://spatial-reference.org. Best regards or MfG (-: Raf - Original Message - From: "Christian Willmes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "OSGeo Discussions" Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2008 3:49 PM Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Map of Wiki/OSGeo Members Hello, today I setup a live demo of the mediawiki extension I wrote on a internet accessible mediawiki installation on Arnulfs server. -> http://arnulf.us/UserLocalization_Example In the moment its not really showing what its made for because there are only two users of this wiki instance in the moment. Tyler Mitchell (OSGeo) schrieb: How is it going on your project, what is the status? Your efforts sound really interesting and could be broadly useful - so I hope you can finish it. It is not the question If I finish it, it is only the question when. ;-) But I like to work on it and I'm willing to make it better and better. I'm not convinced that geocoding IPs is going to be as useful for OSGeo though - I think that many members will never use the wiki. Recently I checked revisions and more than half the revisions were done by only 10 people :) To get the categories set for each user did you have to do them manually, or did most people do it themselves after the reminder? Yes, and also the privacy thing is maybe an issue. I think not everybody wants to have a "track" of his editing locations public accessible. Its just a nice thing for a geo mashup with the geocoding service I thought... and there was something about it on the discussion page ( http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Category_talk:OSGeo_Member ). I will try to make some more functions and improve it. I would be very happy for any suggestions for what could be better done or what would be a good additional function. Best regards, Christian ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss Disclaimer: http://www.kuleuven.be/cwis/email_disclaimer.htm ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss -- *Milo van der Linden* GIS and web3D specialist View Milo van der Linden's profile on LinkedIn <http://www.linkedin.com/pub/2/3b3/a76> *3DSite* <http://www.3dsite.nl> Joachimikade 3F <http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Joachimikade+3F%2CGoes%2CZeeland+4461BG%2CThe+Netherlands&hl=en> Goes, Zeeland 4461BG The Netherlands *Phone: * +31113751508 *Mobile:* +31616598808 *Email: * [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> *Skype: * milovanderlindenMy status * Mapserver hosting <http://www.mapserv.nl> * GoogleEarth business solutions * Geo-exposure ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Map of Wiki/OSGeo Members
Hi Christian, A very nice map indeed. The functionality is good and fast, however a possibility to make zoom with bounding box would be a nice addon. The outlook is very similiar to http://spatial-reference.org. Best regards or MfG (-: Raf - Original Message - From: "Christian Willmes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "OSGeo Discussions" Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2008 3:49 PM Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Map of Wiki/OSGeo Members Hello, today I setup a live demo of the mediawiki extension I wrote on a internet accessible mediawiki installation on Arnulfs server. -> http://arnulf.us/UserLocalization_Example In the moment its not really showing what its made for because there are only two users of this wiki instance in the moment. Tyler Mitchell (OSGeo) schrieb: How is it going on your project, what is the status? Your efforts sound really interesting and could be broadly useful - so I hope you can finish it. It is not the question If I finish it, it is only the question when. ;-) But I like to work on it and I'm willing to make it better and better. I'm not convinced that geocoding IPs is going to be as useful for OSGeo though - I think that many members will never use the wiki. Recently I checked revisions and more than half the revisions were done by only 10 people :) To get the categories set for each user did you have to do them manually, or did most people do it themselves after the reminder? Yes, and also the privacy thing is maybe an issue. I think not everybody wants to have a "track" of his editing locations public accessible. Its just a nice thing for a geo mashup with the geocoding service I thought... and there was something about it on the discussion page ( http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Category_talk:OSGeo_Member ). I will try to make some more functions and improve it. I would be very happy for any suggestions for what could be better done or what would be a good additional function. Best regards, Christian ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss Disclaimer: http://www.kuleuven.be/cwis/email_disclaimer.htm ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Map of Wiki/OSGeo Members
Hello, today I setup a live demo of the mediawiki extension I wrote on a internet accessible mediawiki installation on Arnulfs server. -> http://arnulf.us/UserLocalization_Example In the moment its not really showing what its made for because there are only two users of this wiki instance in the moment. Tyler Mitchell (OSGeo) schrieb: How is it going on your project, what is the status? Your efforts sound really interesting and could be broadly useful - so I hope you can finish it. It is not the question If I finish it, it is only the question when. ;-) But I like to work on it and I'm willing to make it better and better. I'm not convinced that geocoding IPs is going to be as useful for OSGeo though - I think that many members will never use the wiki. Recently I checked revisions and more than half the revisions were done by only 10 people :) To get the categories set for each user did you have to do them manually, or did most people do it themselves after the reminder? Yes, and also the privacy thing is maybe an issue. I think not everybody wants to have a "track" of his editing locations public accessible. Its just a nice thing for a geo mashup with the geocoding service I thought... and there was something about it on the discussion page ( http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Category_talk:OSGeo_Member ). I will try to make some more functions and improve it. I would be very happy for any suggestions for what could be better done or what would be a good additional function. Best regards, Christian ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Map of Wiki/OSGeo Members
A thought . . . How about just doing something based on page access and downloading. Don't need to get into the details of exactly who looked at what, but you could generate some interesting map based reports of who is looking and downloading what. Just plot the geocoded points to a file with the Log data as attributes. All sorts of stuff you could pull out of the logs. I even did something like this for Bounding boxes from our MapServer, to show the areas of interest for different web customers. I never got past the experimental stage with what we did here, but it was very interesting to look at in map form. bobb >>> "Tyler Mitchell (OSGeo)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 08/13/08 6:09 PM >>> How is it going on your project, what is the status? Your efforts sound really interesting and could be broadly useful - so I hope you can finish it. I'm not convinced that geocoding IPs is going to be as useful for OSGeo though - I think that many members will never use the wiki. Recently I checked revisions and more than half the revisions were done by only 10 people :) To get the categories set for each user did you have to do them manually, or did most people do it themselves after the reminder? Tyler On 13-Aug-08, at 1:57 PM, Christian Willmes wrote: > Hi Mateusz, hi all, > > I am an intern at WhereGroup [1] in the moment. And my work there > was/is to implement the "OSGeoMember Mashup" [2] . > I have chosen to implemented an MediaWiki Extension called > "UserLocalization" [3]. > It can show maps of the WikiMembers which included a tag on their > 'User:Username' wiki site. > It is also possible to show edit locations of articles and users, > by geocoding [4] the IP adresses from the editing remote hosts. > It uses Openlayers and PostGIS. > > This Extension is in experimental stage, so in the moment it has > still some bugs to fix... > > And thats only my interpretation of the described Mashup [2], but I > would be very happy about some feedback from you all. :-) > > Best regards, > Christian > > [1] http://www.wheregroup.com > [2] http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Category_talk:OSGeo_Member > [3] http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:UserLocalization > [4] http://www.hostip.info > > Mateusz Loskot schrieb: >> Hi, >> >> During Cascadoss events, Markus and I, we discussed that it could be >> interesting to build a map of all OSGeo Members [1], events and other >> geographically referenced content of our Wiki. >> >> There is number of geo-plugins available for MediaWiki, so it's >> easy to >> get lost. I found Google Map Extension [2] for MediaWiki that looks >> interesting. >> >> I'd like to hear opinions about such map and recommendations of map >> extensions for MediaWiki, that we could use for that purpose. >> >> After I have necessary technical details collected for this new >> features, I'm going to ask Webcom if it's possible to get it >> implemented. >> >> [1] http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Category:OSGeo_Member >> [2] http://wiki.case.edu/CaseWiki:Google_Map_Extension >> >> Best regards, >> > > ___ > Discuss mailing list > Discuss@lists.osgeo.org > http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Map of Wiki/OSGeo Members
How is it going on your project, what is the status? Your efforts sound really interesting and could be broadly useful - so I hope you can finish it. I'm not convinced that geocoding IPs is going to be as useful for OSGeo though - I think that many members will never use the wiki. Recently I checked revisions and more than half the revisions were done by only 10 people :) To get the categories set for each user did you have to do them manually, or did most people do it themselves after the reminder? Tyler On 13-Aug-08, at 1:57 PM, Christian Willmes wrote: Hi Mateusz, hi all, I am an intern at WhereGroup [1] in the moment. And my work there was/is to implement the "OSGeoMember Mashup" [2] . I have chosen to implemented an MediaWiki Extension called "UserLocalization" [3]. It can show maps of the WikiMembers which included a tag on their 'User:Username' wiki site. It is also possible to show edit locations of articles and users, by geocoding [4] the IP adresses from the editing remote hosts. It uses Openlayers and PostGIS. This Extension is in experimental stage, so in the moment it has still some bugs to fix... And thats only my interpretation of the described Mashup [2], but I would be very happy about some feedback from you all. :-) Best regards, Christian [1] http://www.wheregroup.com [2] http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Category_talk:OSGeo_Member [3] http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:UserLocalization [4] http://www.hostip.info Mateusz Loskot schrieb: Hi, During Cascadoss events, Markus and I, we discussed that it could be interesting to build a map of all OSGeo Members [1], events and other geographically referenced content of our Wiki. There is number of geo-plugins available for MediaWiki, so it's easy to get lost. I found Google Map Extension [2] for MediaWiki that looks interesting. I'd like to hear opinions about such map and recommendations of map extensions for MediaWiki, that we could use for that purpose. After I have necessary technical details collected for this new features, I'm going to ask Webcom if it's possible to get it implemented. [1] http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Category:OSGeo_Member [2] http://wiki.case.edu/CaseWiki:Google_Map_Extension Best regards, ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Map of Wiki/OSGeo Members
Hi Mateusz, hi all, I am an intern at WhereGroup [1] in the moment. And my work there was/is to implement the "OSGeoMember Mashup" [2] . I have chosen to implemented an MediaWiki Extension called "UserLocalization" [3]. It can show maps of the WikiMembers which included a tag on their 'User:Username' wiki site. It is also possible to show edit locations of articles and users, by geocoding [4] the IP adresses from the editing remote hosts. It uses Openlayers and PostGIS. This Extension is in experimental stage, so in the moment it has still some bugs to fix... And thats only my interpretation of the described Mashup [2], but I would be very happy about some feedback from you all. :-) Best regards, Christian [1] http://www.wheregroup.com [2] http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Category_talk:OSGeo_Member [3] http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:UserLocalization [4] http://www.hostip.info Mateusz Loskot schrieb: Hi, During Cascadoss events, Markus and I, we discussed that it could be interesting to build a map of all OSGeo Members [1], events and other geographically referenced content of our Wiki. There is number of geo-plugins available for MediaWiki, so it's easy to get lost. I found Google Map Extension [2] for MediaWiki that looks interesting. I'd like to hear opinions about such map and recommendations of map extensions for MediaWiki, that we could use for that purpose. After I have necessary technical details collected for this new features, I'm going to ask Webcom if it's possible to get it implemented. [1] http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Category:OSGeo_Member [2] http://wiki.case.edu/CaseWiki:Google_Map_Extension Best regards, ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Map of Wiki/OSGeo Members
Mateusz, I wonder how this list have been derived, and it may not be belong to the 'osgeo all members' list (I've missed myself from here ;-) http://wiki.osgeo.org/index.php?title=All_Members Best regards, Tamas 2008/8/13 Mateusz Loskot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > Hi, > > During Cascadoss events, Markus and I, we discussed that it could be > interesting to build a map of all OSGeo Members [1], events and other > geographically referenced content of our Wiki. > > There is number of geo-plugins available for MediaWiki, so it's easy to > get lost. I found Google Map Extension [2] for MediaWiki that looks > interesting. > > I'd like to hear opinions about such map and recommendations of map > extensions for MediaWiki, that we could use for that purpose. > > After I have necessary technical details collected for this new > features, I'm going to ask Webcom if it's possible to get it implemented. > > [1] http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Category:OSGeo_Member > [2] http://wiki.case.edu/CaseWiki:Google_Map_Extension > > Best regards, > -- > Mateusz Loskot, http://mateusz.loskot.net > Charter Member of OSGeo, http://osgeo.org > ___ > Discuss mailing list > Discuss@lists.osgeo.org > http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Map of Wiki/OSGeo Members
Have you had a look at how many of those entries have actual coordinate, or even province/country entries? I think "missing" data is going to be your bigger challenge. If we had a membership sign up form that also allows users to enter coordinates - or click a map. Then we could easily have it feed automatically into a community map. But I'm still interested to see what you can come up with via mediawiki! Unfortunately, I'm pretty ignorant of its capabilities on this front. Tyler On 13-Aug-08, at 12:55 PM, Mateusz Loskot wrote: Hi, During Cascadoss events, Markus and I, we discussed that it could be interesting to build a map of all OSGeo Members [1], events and other geographically referenced content of our Wiki. There is number of geo-plugins available for MediaWiki, so it's easy to get lost. I found Google Map Extension [2] for MediaWiki that looks interesting. I'd like to hear opinions about such map and recommendations of map extensions for MediaWiki, that we could use for that purpose. After I have necessary technical details collected for this new features, I'm going to ask Webcom if it's possible to get it implemented. [1] http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Category:OSGeo_Member [2] http://wiki.case.edu/CaseWiki:Google_Map_Extension Best regards, -- Mateusz Loskot, http://mateusz.loskot.net Charter Member of OSGeo, http://osgeo.org ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss Tyler Mitchell Executive Director Open Source Geospatial Foundation [EMAIL PROTECTED] P: +1-250-277-1621 M: +1-250-303-1831 ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Map of Wiki/OSGeo Members
David William Bitner wrote: > Mateusz, > > I think this sounds like a great idea, but it would be especially cool if we > could somehow scrape Category:OSGeo_Member entries and create a feed > (GeoRSS, KML, WFS, WMS, ...) from that. From that feed we could then > actually make use of some of our software like OpenLayers to display the > data. David, As I see, GeoRSS extension for MediaWiki is available. Anyone has used it and can recommend as stable/well-working? Or any better option? Best regards, -- Mateusz Loskot, http://mateusz.loskot.net Charter Member of OSGeo, http://osgeo.org ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Map of Wiki/OSGeo Members
Yves Jacolin wrote: > Why don't we use an OSGeo project to realise this mapping Member? This could > be interesting to show how we can use some OSGeo project :) This is a very good point. OpenLayers is a nice candidate for this I think. Next, I have to figure out how to georeference MediaWiki entries. Best regards -- Mateusz Loskot, http://mateusz.loskot.net Charter Member of OSGeo, http://osgeo.org ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Map of Wiki/OSGeo Members
Mateusz, I think this sounds like a great idea, but it would be especially cool if we could somehow scrape Category:OSGeo_Member entries and create a feed (GeoRSS, KML, WFS, WMS, ...) from that. From that feed we could then actually make use of some of our software like OpenLayers to display the data. David On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 2:55 PM, Mateusz Loskot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi, > > During Cascadoss events, Markus and I, we discussed that it could be > interesting to build a map of all OSGeo Members [1], events and other > geographically referenced content of our Wiki. > > There is number of geo-plugins available for MediaWiki, so it's easy to > get lost. I found Google Map Extension [2] for MediaWiki that looks > interesting. > > I'd like to hear opinions about such map and recommendations of map > extensions for MediaWiki, that we could use for that purpose. > > After I have necessary technical details collected for this new > features, I'm going to ask Webcom if it's possible to get it implemented. > > [1] http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Category:OSGeo_Member > [2] http://wiki.case.edu/CaseWiki:Google_Map_Extension > > Best regards, > -- > Mateusz Loskot, http://mateusz.loskot.net > Charter Member of OSGeo, http://osgeo.org > ___ > Discuss mailing list > Discuss@lists.osgeo.org > http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > -- David William Bitner ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Map of Wiki/OSGeo Members
Le mercredi 13 août 2008 21:55, Mateusz Loskot a écrit : > Hi, > > During Cascadoss events, Markus and I, we discussed that it could be > interesting to build a map of all OSGeo Members [1], events and other > geographically referenced content of our Wiki. > > There is number of geo-plugins available for MediaWiki, so it's easy to > get lost. I found Google Map Extension [2] for MediaWiki that looks > interesting. > > I'd like to hear opinions about such map and recommendations of map > extensions for MediaWiki, that we could use for that purpose. > > After I have necessary technical details collected for this new > features, I'm going to ask Webcom if it's possible to get it implemented. > > [1] http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Category:OSGeo_Member > [2] http://wiki.case.edu/CaseWiki:Google_Map_Extension > > Best regards, Hi, This is a great idea, as I have it in mind some times ago ;), but having no time to help to realise it, I didn't share it :/ Why don't we use an OSGeo project to realise this mapping Member? This could be interesting to show how we can use some OSGeo project :) Regards, Y. -- Yves Jacolin - "Donner la liberté aux individus ne suffit pas, il faut aussi leur donner du pouvoir, de la puissance d'agir." M Gauchet "Give freedom to people is not enough, we also have to give them the power to use this freedom, to act". M Gauchet - http://yjacolin.gloobe.org http://softlibre.gloobe.org ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
[OSGeo-Discuss] Map of Wiki/OSGeo Members
Hi, During Cascadoss events, Markus and I, we discussed that it could be interesting to build a map of all OSGeo Members [1], events and other geographically referenced content of our Wiki. There is number of geo-plugins available for MediaWiki, so it's easy to get lost. I found Google Map Extension [2] for MediaWiki that looks interesting. I'd like to hear opinions about such map and recommendations of map extensions for MediaWiki, that we could use for that purpose. After I have necessary technical details collected for this new features, I'm going to ask Webcom if it's possible to get it implemented. [1] http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Category:OSGeo_Member [2] http://wiki.case.edu/CaseWiki:Google_Map_Extension Best regards, -- Mateusz Loskot, http://mateusz.loskot.net Charter Member of OSGeo, http://osgeo.org ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
