Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] R: 2019 OSGeo UN Committee Educational Challenge

2019-05-20 Thread Ben Caradoc-Davies 

On 20/05/2019 07:03, Maria Antonia Brovelli wrote:

Anyhow there is a Code of Conduct Committee. If they decided that the criteria 
as a whole are against inclusion, we would change as they propose.


My understanding of the Code of Conduct is that it was intended to apply 
to the conduct of individuals, not policy decisions by OSGeo.


Kind regards,

--
Ben Caradoc-Davies 
Director
Transient Software Limited 
New Zealand
___
Discuss mailing list
Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss

Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] R: 2019 OSGeo UN Committee Educational Challenge

2019-05-20 Thread Ben Caradoc-Davies 

On 20/05/2019 07:28, Jonathan Moules wrote:

 > People with more than 40 years can apply.
Yes but they suffer a 20% penalty, that's a very significant penalty and 
is explicitly discriminatory against what is commonly considered a 
"protected attribute" (age), hence my raising the issue.

 > Moeover the scores will be compensated by their experience,
The problem with this is that you are assuming that people >=40 have 
experience with both writing proposals and giving training. 
Statistically they're more likely to have such experience but it's by no 
means guaranteed, it depends entirely on their career path.


Discrimination against older people is a serious problem in the software 
industry, especially new entrants or returning participants in junior 
roles. I do not think that OSGeo should endorse this practice. We should 
be inclusive.


The text also states that the gender of the proposer is a criterion. Why 
only gender and not sexuality, ability, or other diversity criteria? 
Will OSGeo accept self-reported gender identity?


I prefer to avoid these identity-related criteria because they are not 
inclusive. The other criteria look good to me.


Kind regards,

--
Ben Caradoc-Davies 
Director
Transient Software Limited 
New Zealand
___
Discuss mailing list
Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss

Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] R: 2019 OSGeo UN Committee Educational Challenge

2019-05-19 Thread Jonathan Moules 

Hi Maria,


> People with more than 40 years can apply.

Yes but they suffer a 20% penalty, that's a very significant penalty and 
is explicitly discriminatory against what is commonly considered a 
"protected attribute" (age), hence my raising the issue.



> Moeover the scores will be compensated by their experience,

The problem with this is that you are assuming that people >=40 have 
experience with both writing proposals and giving training. 
Statistically they're more likely to have such experience but it's by no 
means guaranteed, it depends entirely on their career path.



If you want experienced writers then evaluate for experienced writers. 
If you want inexperienced writers so you can teach them (which isn't the 
explicit goal of the Challenge as far as I can see, though it could be 
implied by the existence of mentors), then evaluate and pick 
inexperienced. Age should not be a factor, only experience.



Cheers,

Jonathan



On 2019-05-19 20:03, Maria Antonia Brovelli wrote:

Thanks for your comment.  I have a different opinion.
People with more than 40 years can apply.
Moeover the scores will be compensated by their experience, as there 
are also scores for this:


 1. Proposer’s documented experience in education and training: 20 (max)

And I believe that, for a person with experience, it is easier to 
write a better proposal (40 scores).


In my opinion, on the opposite, our choice goes into the direction of 
being  inclusive with young people.


Anyhow there is a Code of Conduct Committee. If they decided that the 
criteria as a whole are against inclusion, we would change as they 
propose.


Best regards
Maria



Inviato dal mio dispositivo Samsung
 Messaggio originale 
Da: Jonathan Moules 
Data: 19/05/19 19:02 (GMT+01:00)
A: discuss@lists.osgeo.org
Oggetto: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] 2019 OSGeo UN Committee Educational 
Challenge


I've just taken a look at this and noticed this line as one of the 
evaluation criteria:



> Proposer’s age (20 if <= 40 years old; 0 if >40 years old): 20 (max)

When did explicit age discrimination (i.e. ageism) become acceptable?


It seems to run counter to the OSGeo Goal of:
"be a welcoming and inclusive worldwide organization at all levels;"


Not to mention the Code of Conduct:

"OSGeo welcomes and encourages participation by everyone" - as long as 
you're young?





On 2019-05-18 17:33, Maria Antonia Brovelli wrote:

Dear All
it is the time for a new exciting OSGeo UN Challenge.

Proposals are invited for developing open geospatial educational 
material for two challenges:


Challenge 1: PostGIS training material update
Challenge 2: Open geospatial data and software for UN SDG 16, Peace 
justice and strong institutions


Prize money of USD 3,000 for each challenge is sponsored by OSGeo.

Deadline for submission is 9 July 2019 (with no extension).

Information is available here:

https://www.osgeo.org/foundation-news/2019-osgeo-un-committee-educational-challenge/

Happy weekend!
Maria and Serena



**
*Prof. Maria Antonia Brovelli*
Professor of GIS and Digital Mapping
Politecnico di Milano

P.zza Leonardo da Vinci, 32 - Building 3 - 20133 Milano (Italy)

https://orcid.org/-0003-3161-556






___
Discuss mailing list
Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
___
Discuss mailing list
Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss

[OSGeo-Discuss] R: 2019 OSGeo UN Committee Educational Challenge

2019-05-19 Thread Maria Antonia Brovelli 
Thanks for your comment.  I have a different opinion.
People with more than 40 years can apply.
Moeover the scores will be compensated by their experience, as there are also 
scores for this:


  1.  Proposer’s documented experience in education and training: 20 (max)

And I believe that, for a person with experience, it is easier to write a 
better proposal (40 scores).

In my opinion, on the opposite, our choice goes into the direction of being  
inclusive with young people.

Anyhow there is a Code of Conduct Committee. If they decided that the criteria 
as a whole are against inclusion, we would change as they propose.

Best regards
Maria



Inviato dal mio dispositivo Samsung
 Messaggio originale 
Da: Jonathan Moules 
Data: 19/05/19 19:02 (GMT+01:00)
A: discuss@lists.osgeo.org
Oggetto: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] 2019 OSGeo UN Committee Educational Challenge


I've just taken a look at this and noticed this line as one of the evaluation 
criteria:


> Proposer’s age (20 if <= 40 years old; 0 if >40 years old): 20 (max)

When did explicit age discrimination (i.e. ageism) become acceptable?


It seems to run counter to the OSGeo Goal of:
"be a welcoming and inclusive worldwide organization at all levels;"


Not to mention the Code of Conduct:

"OSGeo welcomes and encourages participation by everyone" - as long as you're 
young?




On 2019-05-18 17:33, Maria Antonia Brovelli wrote:
Dear All
it is the time for a new exciting OSGeo UN Challenge.

Proposals are invited for developing open geospatial educational material for 
two challenges:

Challenge 1: PostGIS training material update
Challenge 2: Open geospatial data and software for UN SDG 16, Peace justice and 
strong institutions

Prize money of USD 3,000 for each challenge is sponsored by OSGeo.

Deadline for submission is 9 July 2019 (with no extension).

Information is available here:

https://www.osgeo.org/foundation-news/2019-osgeo-un-committee-educational-challenge/

Happy weekend!
Maria and Serena




Prof. Maria Antonia Brovelli
Professor of GIS and Digital Mapping
Politecnico di Milano

P.zza Leonardo da Vinci, 32 - Building 3 - 20133 Milano (Italy)
https://orcid.org/-0003-3161-556








___
Discuss mailing list
Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
___
Discuss mailing list
Discuss@lists.osgeo.org
https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss